PvP , what's the truth?
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madeeh91rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »What about trials and dungeons? You can enter PvP at lvl10, and even in CP PvP you can do noCP phase.
I see PvE, trials as a source to get gear to be used in PvP.
Many choose to see trials as a place where you complete challenges to get gear to beat those same challenges. To get even better gear?
Some like to compete by being the top player in the so called "leader boards".
Some like to compete by bashing people's face in. More of them they bash at the same time, the higher the adrenaline rush.
There is something about beating a (good)human that is always far more rewarding than an A.I.
So yes, I have always seen PvP as the real end game.
However I do wish there was better story(Daedra/Wormcult vs Tamrielers?) than the current pointless and stupid Cyrodil war.
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »JackWest92 wrote: »
You sure? I spent above 90% of my time in Cyrodiil, and yesterday in our third attempt at second boss vMoL(where even Hodor wiped for long time) we got em to 1%. Yes, i do have pve character, but i am also only 530 cp and with this grp i raid 1-2 times a week. Probably you were just refering to the people who do ONLY pvp, but i also agree with the guy who said pvp has higher skill cap. In pvp you can only 'expect' whats gonna happen when, against the bad player who always incap after ambush for example. Majority of the time you have no idea what the enemy is gonna do. In trials, give me 2-3 pulls and i will know exactly whats gonna happen when, so its easily memorableLikewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
I agree most of the pvp players don’t go into pve land with a full pvp build we use a pve build and cp to boost our damage. The thing that makes pvp player able to adapt better to pve then a pve player to pvp is better situation awareness. When it’s just rotation and learning mechanics and a few dps test on a dummy it’s not hard at all.
PvE to pvp is a lot different it’s not just knowing ur class and how to dish out damage but knowing every class and how to survive there damage how to counter each class different.
If you're doing vMoL progression runs I'm assuming you've done all 3 craglorn trials, probably hard mode, you've made sure your rotations are solid and are getting at least 30k dps and you're probably all running divines BiS meta gear.
You're PvE'ers. You're also PvP'ers, in the same way that some of my trials group are ex-emperor's.
Sure, some of my group only PVP'd enough to get caltrops and get out, but others do both, which is totally fine.
But they are also the same people that will tell you that PvP is just another facet of the game which requires the same level of dedication and practice to "git gud".
Good PvE''ers have situational awareness. Bad PvE'ers don't and they never seem to make it through vCoS without being carried. That's the big difference between "good" and "average" in both pve AND pvp.
There are plenty of "average" pvp'ers who can just get a build and gank some caltrops farmers or run with the zerg. That's not hard to do.
Being good at PVP is hard. being good at PVE is hard. I don't know why this is so controversial to you people?4 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Competitive", "PvP" and "ESO" really shouldn't be in the same sentence.
Not when the most impactful factor in Vivec is lag.
Not when BGs have no proper ranking system and CPs enabled.
Not when it's ***-easy to stale any duel with very little effort, because dealing the killing blow mainly comes down to who makes a mistake first.
Not when the main activity in IC consists in farming district bosses.
Not when 1vX mainly comes down to how bad your opponents are.
Not when the whole combat system is so slow (BDO would have been it, if not for the other aspects of the game being lackluster).
Not when every possible counterplay possible has been removed in favor of stacking stats.
Not when stats have this much impact on the outcome of the fight that you can predict their outcome within the first seconds.
Not when you have things such as Miat's addon.
Not when you have such an absurd amount of bugs or exploits left unfixed.
Not when the animation system is so bugged that even the player casting abilities sometimes can't tell what he is actually doing (and I'm not talking about AC, but the bugs where your character keeps doing the heavy attack animations, but casts abilities on the server side, only to resync on the next bar swap).
Not when the Cyrodiil leaderboards are so meaningless.
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If you want a competitive PvP system, ESO is not the place for it. It can be fun, and it is definitely fun if you know where to get half-decent PvP, but not competitive.
The day they fix the gazillion bugs, introduce custom BG matches, introduce an actual MMR BG system, make it possible to kill someone in duel who tries to turtle down, give actual counterplay to mor abilities, then maybe it will happen.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.9 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Competitive", "PvP" and "ESO" really shouldn't be in the same sentence.
Not when the most impactful factor in Vivec is lag.
Not when BGs have no proper ranking system and CPs enabled.
Not when it's ***-easy to stale any duel with very little effort, because dealing the killing blow mainly comes down to who makes a mistake first.
Not when the main activity in IC consists in farming district bosses.
Not when 1vX mainly comes down to how bad your opponents are.
Not when the whole combat system is so slow (BDO would have been it, if not for the other aspects of the game being lackluster).
Not when every possible counterplay possible has been removed in favor of stacking stats.
Not when stats have this much impact on the outcome of the fight that you can predict their outcome within the first seconds.
Not when you have things such as Miat's addon.
Not when you have such an absurd amount of bugs or exploits left unfixed.
Not when the animation system is so bugged that even the player casting abilities sometimes can't tell what he is actually doing (and I'm not talking about AC, but the bugs where your character keeps doing the heavy attack animations, but casts abilities on the server side, only to resync on the next bar swap).
Not when the Cyrodiil leaderboards are so meaningless.
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If you want a competitive PvP system, ESO is not the place for it. It can be fun, and it is definitely fun if you know where to get half-decent PvP, but not competitive.
The day they fix the gazillion bugs, introduce custom BG matches, introduce an actual MMR BG system, make it possible to kill someone in duel who tries to turtle down, give actual counterplay to mor abilities, then maybe it will happen.
Agree, if there´s no decent way to measure it you can´t really say it´s competitive. The PvE leaderboards are better this way because everyone who enters a trial will face the same thing, and it´s therefore comparable to one another. The less factors taken into consideration, the easier it is to compare/compete. The same thing can´t be said for PvP instances. As asmael wrote there´re simply to many things that matters in a PvP environment to make it "truly competitive endgame"0 -
Mannix1958✭✭✭✭@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
Your first post was a well thought argument...you should have stopped.1 -
Mannix1958✭✭✭✭@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
You are greatly exaggerating both the difficulty of PVP and the ease of PVE. "Never dodge roll" in PVE? Really? It's literally the only way to not die in vCoS. And how is that a metric for difficulty anyway?
More movement and reflexes? Than the twins in vMoL? Than vICP warden dusk? Not from what I've seen.
I'm not a dedicated PVP'er but I've done my share. Some people will smash me every time. Enough of the time it goes the other way however.
I hate to say it but breaking line of sight, coordinating your ults and sticking together to share vigors isn't exactly black magic and it's certainly easier than passing the pinion around in vWGT.
Most of the time PVP is about threat assessment. Can you take that player / group or should you run and hide? Can you bait out a few people from the zerg so you can kill them or not?
To which I will rebut: go solo in Cyro and take on a group of 5 good CP 690s 1v5. Go on.
According to you PvP isn't that hard, so that must be easy right? It's not that hard, taking on a group 1v5 is about on the level of the warden dusk fight, amirite? LUL. Because it's so hard to jump in the blue thing on the ground. Yup!
It's not like taking on 5 good players 1v5 is next to impossible, right? No they're about the same.
I challenge you to beat all of the best players in the game in a duel. That's right, go and duel every single player who is good and beat them all. PvP is pretty easy right, so it shouldn't be that hard. Never mind that nobody can beat every other good player in a duel!
Yup, zerging doesn't require skill but being good in PvP does. Just like how Pv Door doesn't require skill. Solo play, duels, and small scale is where the skill is.
Another case where you really should have paused before posting.4 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭TO get back to OP's subject...BG's can be fun..it would be nice to have a non cp and cp option...lowbie bgs are tons of fun...wardens are easy mode and need to be fixed
.... SOme builds are cheesey and uber tanky and way annoying in CP but can be countered (most times).. It would be nice to pick modes , but then some would never get played...they q is still wonky and needs some loving from the devs...Pug groups are at a severe handicap against pre made 4 man groups....The loading screens and getting kicked and the 20 minute ban are annoying but hopefully will be fixed... The sigil in Deathmatch is way too OP ( I have hit 28k incaps with it) ...sorry for the unorganized rant.......
Now to the whole pvp versus pve and solo pvp versus zerg pvp thing......
Both can be difficult, and people who are exclusive players to both are passionate about them, and defend them (sometimes over zealously). There are Pve's who can step into PvP and do very well, and vice versa..there are also a huge population of us who enjoy both and are good at both..It sucks for Pvpers that gear is stuck behind PVE and it sucks for PVers that skills are stuck in PVP...but it provides an chance for people to experience something different that, when approached not with an attitude of animosity but an attitude of openness, it can be both enjoyable and rewarding....
As far as the Solo/small group versus zerg play.....while I have the opinion that it takes more skill to solo or small group I get that people enjoy zerging, it's easy AP and when organized, not that difficult and entertaining....but there is no point in down talking the solo players, though it may not be your cup of tea, it is how they chose to play the game, and a challenge they choose to take on..just because you can play in a 24 man doe not mean you have too....anyway..hope you all had a good holiday!Edited by wazzz56 on November 27, 2017 1:38PMGM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."2 -
Yasha✭✭✭✭✭The truth is that they broke BGs by making them CP, but BGs in ESO aren't very good compared to other games anyway. On the other hand, ESO's RvR (Cyrodiil) is amazing, and even though it has some issues its the best RvR type pvp on offer atm.0
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Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mannix1958 wrote: »@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
Your first post was a well thought argument...you should have stopped.Mannix1958 wrote: »@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
Your first post was a well thought argument...you should have stopped.
I don't really need to stop everything I said is right... there is no debating that whatsoever. If you don't agree with anything I have said thus far, you are the one is actually wrong0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Competitive", "PvP" and "ESO" really shouldn't be in the same sentence.
Not when the most impactful factor in Vivec is lag.
Not when BGs have no proper ranking system and CPs enabled.
Not when it's ***-easy to stale any duel with very little effort, because dealing the killing blow mainly comes down to who makes a mistake first.
Not when the main activity in IC consists in farming district bosses.
Not when 1vX mainly comes down to how bad your opponents are.
Not when the whole combat system is so slow (BDO would have been it, if not for the other aspects of the game being lackluster).
Not when every possible counterplay possible has been removed in favor of stacking stats.
Not when stats have this much impact on the outcome of the fight that you can predict their outcome within the first seconds.
Not when you have things such as Miat's addon.
Not when you have such an absurd amount of bugs or exploits left unfixed.
Not when the animation system is so bugged that even the player casting abilities sometimes can't tell what he is actually doing (and I'm not talking about AC, but the bugs where your character keeps doing the heavy attack animations, but casts abilities on the server side, only to resync on the next bar swap).
Not when the Cyrodiil leaderboards are so meaningless.
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If you want a competitive PvP system, ESO is not the place for it. It can be fun, and it is definitely fun if you know where to get half-decent PvP, but not competitive.
The day they fix the gazillion bugs, introduce custom BG matches, introduce an actual MMR BG system, make it possible to kill someone in duel who tries to turtle down, give actual counterplay to mor abilities, then maybe it will happen.
I agree. It is because these things that while even though I may poke around a bit in Cyrodiil every here and there, I get my “hardcore” PvP dosages from other games. Preferably from: Overwatch, GTA:5, and Smash Bros. I plan to add Nioh to that list as well for a source of competitive PvP, but I’m still a super-noob at that game.1 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭I've just returned to ESO and I've spotted a problem right away. After few games I've spotted the following:
- Almost everyone uses a 2h sword
- Almost everyone uses the same build
- Most of the time the winning team is made out of 2 unkillable templars and 2 unkillable dks. Any of them can burst you down in 2 seconds as well so it's some kind of God Mode.
Something's seriously wrong here.Edited by Surgee on November 27, 2017 2:25PM6 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMO, for all its issues, ESO is the best PVP MMO available
I highly agree. More so when you add up the content quantity and quality/$$$. You can tell ZOS has and is still giving major attention towards ESO.
And to be honest for this company's first MMO. ESO is miles ahead of other MMO developers. With ZOS at the helm this MMO, truly have the potential to last as long if not longer than WoW, RS, and Eve Online.
Best form of MMO gaming experience for the time. And way ahead of it's time, in my opinion. ZOS has already proven to us unlike ArenaNet who gave up at the first signs of trouble. That ZOS is in it for the long run and will tackle challenges head on, instead of giving up of this game.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've just returned to ESO and I've spotted a problem right away. After few games I've spotted the following:
- Almost everyone uses a 2h sword
- Almost everyone uses the same build
- Most of the time the winning team is made out of 2 unkillable templars and 2 unkillable dks. Any of them can burst you down in 2 seconds as well so it's some kind of God Mode.
Something's seriously wrong here.
That’s what happens when CP get thrown into the mix (regarding BG). Even worse, we (the community) had repeatedly asked ZOS to not include CP into BG. And heavily warned them of such occurrences that would follow suit. Granted of course that no-CP BG was never really balanced for the most part anyway... But now, it is a full-on problem.
Another thing that has came to light, is the huge imbalances regarding magicka and stamina within a PvP environment (once again). Stamina has always been beat within a PvP environment, but this is even more so vividly shown thanks to CP in BG. It’s ridiculous. Comparing a StamDK or StamPlar to a MagDK or MagPlar is the equivalent to comparing an AK-47 to a bow and arrow. The magicka variants of course being the bow (ironically enough). This is due to the fact that there is little to no competition regarding magicka variants of builds coming up against stamina builds. And this holds true to every class and type combo in the game. A StamPlar will obliterate a MagPlar. A StamDK will crush a MagDK. A StamDen completely annihilated a MagDen. And so on.
And all of this is thanks to the constant whining that the player base did whenever magicka builds finally got a slight edge. And then the devs for whatever the reason choosing to indulge in it patch after patch. Now look at the mess that exists currently. It’s sad, to be honest. And shows a very high amount of bias that the devs have towards magicka and stamina build variations. Whether it be from a PvE perspective, or PvP angle.1 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭I've just returned to ESO and I've spotted a problem right away. After few games I've spotted the following:
- Almost everyone uses a 2h sword
- Almost everyone uses the same build
- Most of the time the winning team is made out of 2 unkillable templars and 2 unkillable dks. Any of them can burst you down in 2 seconds as well so it's some kind of God Mode.
Something's seriously wrong here.
That’s what happens when CP get thrown into the mix (regarding BG). Even worse, we (the community) had repeatedly asked ZOS to not include CP into BG. And heavily warned them of such occurrences that would follow suit. Granted of course that no-CP BG was never really balanced for the most part anyway... But now, it is a full-on problem.
Another thing that has came to light, is the huge imbalances regarding magicka and stamina within a PvP environment (once again). Stamina has always been beat within a PvP environment, but this is even more so vividly shown thanks to CP in BG. It’s ridiculous. Comparing a StamDK or StamPlar to a MagDK or MagPlar is the equivalent to comparing an AK-47 to a bow and arrow. The magicka variants of course being the bow (ironically enough). This is due to the fact that there is little to no competition regarding magicka variants of builds coming up against stamina builds. And this holds true to every class and type combo in the game. A StamPlar will obliterate a MagPlar. A StamDK will crush a MagDK. A StamDen completely annihilated a MagDen. And so on.
And all of this is thanks to the constant whining that the player base did whenever magicka builds finally got a slight edge. And then the devs for whatever the reason choosing to indulge in it patch after patch. Now look at the mess that exists currently. It’s sad, to be honest. And shows a very high amount of bias that the devs have towards magicka and stamina build variations. Whether it be from a PvE perspective, or PvP angle.
I don't think it's about STAM and Magicka. It's about those stupid 2h builds. I'm running a totally fair tank build (sword & board) with some 3600+ weapon power, 40k health and 34k stamina, full res and against a good templar I can't win, because I can't burst them down and they can keep on healing to full in a blink of an eye...it's ok though, I'm a tank after all. But then when I meet ANY 2h melee weapon user, I'm as good as dead. Those guys can't be scratched and will take down any tank or a healer within seconds. That's where the problem is IMO.
As for magicka users having a disadvantage because of break-free and dodge roll ZOS could easily add a feature to one skill that would modify the roll dodge and break free to use magicka resource (and in the same time, change the animation to something cool).2 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
I bet the healers love you.... *stands in red, healers will heal me through the damage*Hoping for more playable races2 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mannix1958 wrote: »@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
Your first post was a well thought argument...you should have stopped.Mannix1958 wrote: »@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".
If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.
Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.
Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.
The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.
Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.
The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.
True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.
But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.
So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.
Your first post was a well thought argument...you should have stopped.
I don't really need to stop everything I said is right... there is no debating that whatsoever. If you don't agree with anything I have said thus far, you are the one is actually wrong
Proof that everyone is wasting their time with this guy. I feel bad for the OP, his question was barely answered.Hoping for more playable races2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've just returned to ESO and I've spotted a problem right away. After few games I've spotted the following:
- Almost everyone uses a 2h sword
- Almost everyone uses the same build
- Most of the time the winning team is made out of 2 unkillable templars and 2 unkillable dks. Any of them can burst you down in 2 seconds as well so it's some kind of God Mode.
Something's seriously wrong here.
That’s what happens when CP get thrown into the mix (regarding BG). Even worse, we (the community) had repeatedly asked ZOS to not include CP into BG. And heavily warned them of such occurrences that would follow suit. Granted of course that no-CP BG was never really balanced for the most part anyway... But now, it is a full-on problem.
Another thing that has came to light, is the huge imbalances regarding magicka and stamina within a PvP environment (once again). Stamina has always been beat within a PvP environment, but this is even more so vividly shown thanks to CP in BG. It’s ridiculous. Comparing a StamDK or StamPlar to a MagDK or MagPlar is the equivalent to comparing an AK-47 to a bow and arrow. The magicka variants of course being the bow (ironically enough). This is due to the fact that there is little to no competition regarding magicka variants of builds coming up against stamina builds. And this holds true to every class and type combo in the game. A StamPlar will obliterate a MagPlar. A StamDK will crush a MagDK. A StamDen completely annihilated a MagDen. And so on.
And all of this is thanks to the constant whining that the player base did whenever magicka builds finally got a slight edge. And then the devs for whatever the reason choosing to indulge in it patch after patch. Now look at the mess that exists currently. It’s sad, to be honest. And shows a very high amount of bias that the devs have towards magicka and stamina build variations. Whether it be from a PvE perspective, or PvP angle.
Part of that is the difference between small scale and large scale PVP. In 4v4v4, stamina users absolutely have an edge. In AvAvA where Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 8-24 players, its pretty hard to argue with the dominance of magicka in larger groups. Healing, negates, destro ultimates - all magicka. So balancing for both small group PVP and large scale PVP turns out to be pretty hard. Because if ZOS buffs magicka for Battlegrounds, magicka gets OP in Cyrodiil in large groups. If ZOS nerfs stamina for Battlegrounds, stamina gets hosed in Cyrodiil versus large groups.0 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭FelixTheCatt wrote: »I'm not new to the game but I'm not typically a pvp'er. I've considered giving it a try but can't seem to get a straight answer in game if its made up or not. Don't want to start if it's something that's going to turn out to be more hassle than its worth.
I find PvP (cyrodiil, IC) fun but then I find all the PvE stuff fun too. Don't have Morrowind so don't know if I'll find BGs fun yet.
As I find PvP fun even suffering the load screens I'd recommend it but thats just my subjective opinion, YMMV. Only you can really say if you'd enjoy it or not.
I do recommend waiting until after the LSOD fixes coming up. It does say a lot when I've committed to muscle memory the sequence quit game - pause - press X to start game - pause - press X, X, X, X to skip logos - pause - press X to get past morrowind screen - pause - press X to hit play and so on as I can now do it all without looking at the screen or wasting time/clicks......EU PS40 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭FelixTheCatt wrote: »Seems every expansion , new crown store offerings that there are tons of people asking why the devs haven't fixed "broken" bg's. Some of the criticism gets downright vicious. Not a lot of examples of what's broken exactly get listed as much as it just seems attacks on ZoS..
endless load screens anytime anywhere. You don't even have to die or transit to get them any more.
Lag. So laggy that you might already be dead before you die.
Abilities do not work even hammering down on the buttons over and over will not get you the intended results.
Oh yeah, It's not called PvP (in Cyrodill) it's call Horse Simulator.1 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭randomkeyhits wrote: »FelixTheCatt wrote: »I'm not new to the game but I'm not typically a pvp'er. I've considered giving it a try but can't seem to get a straight answer in game if its made up or not. Don't want to start if it's something that's going to turn out to be more hassle than its worth.
I find PvP (cyrodiil, IC) fun but then I find all the PvE stuff fun too. Don't have Morrowind so don't know if I'll find BGs fun yet.
As I find PvP fun even suffering the load screens I'd recommend it but thats just my subjective opinion, YMMV. Only you can really say if you'd enjoy it or not.
I do recommend waiting until after the LSOD fixes coming up. It does say a lot when I've committed to muscle memory the sequence quit game - pause - press X to start game - pause - press X, X, X, X to skip logos - pause - press X to get past morrowind screen - pause - press X to hit play and so on as I can now do it all without looking at the screen or wasting time/clicks......
Don't try. I bought Morrowind for the arenas and it made me realize more than anything else that I just need to follow the new most popular meta build or just fail miserably in the arena. In Cyrodil I can still shine every now and then when using my unique role-play build. Here's how it looks:
Cyrodil - 70% of players running same cancer meta builds but there is some chaos so you can still have fun at times
Arena - 100% of the players are sporting the same cancer meta builds. No creativity at all, just copy/paste from youtube and forums. This + the fact that you will be fighting against well-organized groups. Unless you're one of them, good luck.0 -
Jiandao✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »This is why pvp is generally not practiced by a majority of players in all mmos..because it's full of arrogant elitists and children.
Pvp is not true end game..it's a feature for those extremely small amounts of people who like it. That's your end game and that's finexpensive. But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Suxmonktoasty wrote: »But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Sux
In my experience the people who rage whisper are usually people whom I've just killed. I've only ever been rage whispered once by a player who beat me and that was a miat-using scrub. So, having been killed by me, their rage whispers are pretty easy to counter:
Rage whisperer: "you're a noob l2p"
Me: "umm but I just whooped you"
People who rage whisper are usually bad at PvP and often have real life issues so don't often come out on top in many things in life. They vent their frustrations on an anonymous internet gaming person.
I've actually had some nice complimentary whispers from some of the players that I've killed in PvP before.
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