PvP , what's the truth?

Lexxypwns · November 2017

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Short answer
Cyrodiil makes 0 money
Crown crates makes HEAPS OF MONEY
(before you get any bright ideas, for investors pockets not for anything like server upgrades or stability controls)

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IMO, for all its issues, ESO is the best PVP MMO available

Consoles, your statement may be correct. But for pc there games that do what eso does but much better.
-large scale pvp (gw2),
-small scale pvp (gw2, wow, swtor),
-end game content (gw2, wow)
-even some add social content just so players can have fun with their guild mates (gw2)

But alot of this is done to infrastructure and details in the content provide. (There are many threads on this and i pesonal have mentioned some little fixes to pvp that would make it the best pvp experience).
Just really hope they have learnt something while everyone ones been in a load screen

All those games suffer from a lack of dynamic combat. Final fantasy has the combat system that would best translate to interesting pvp imo and BDO would be a gem if it weren’t a grind fest that makes eso look like nothing.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · November 2017

fred4 wrote: »

WoW, really? I have not played it. ESO is my first MMO, played for 2 1/2 years now though. I understand that WoW has auto/tab-targeting, whereas you have to aim in ESO and stay more-or-less on target. This would indicate to me that ESO has a fundamentally more sophisticated combat engine. I also understand that you don't need to make builds, or are at least much less restricted in the number of abilities you can use at a time in WoW. Would this not cut back on the variety of builds, and thus the situations you may encounter in PvP?

what builds in wow? im a WoW veteran and Legion pvp is a total joke...ESO is good but you also need pvp builds...else you will be rekt by someone naked that know how to wield a sword.

Eyesinthedrk · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

This is why pvp is generally not practiced by a majority of players in all mmos..because it's full of arrogant elitists and children.

Pvp is not true end game..it's a feature for those extremely small amounts of people who like it. That's your end game and that's finexpensive. But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Sux

Actually the real reason more people don't play it is because it requires a lot more skill and is a lot harder. It's much more fast paced meaning you need to have good reaction times/reflexes if you want to hope to compete.

Anyone who is vocal about being against PvP, simply did not find success in it themselves. If they did they'd be playing it. But because they kept getting owned again and again, repeatedly, they feel the need to trash talk the game mode because they know they'll never be able to compete in it.

Basically, PvP is for those of us who are really good at the game. I think that's the best way to look at it.

I couldn’t disagree more. I place pvp above normal dungeons and below vet non dlc dungeons. Any non cp cannon fodder can type “lfg” into area chat and get picked up by a group. If that group has a half way decent crown and enough members, they can take a keep. Even a PVEer who’s only there to get vigor and caltrops.

Tannus15 · November 2017

@fred4 @Blanco See this is the thing, you have changed the definition of PVP into "1 v X where X >= 5" and then you claim that means you can throw around statements about how PVP is the "real endgame".

Ok, cool. I can play that game. PVE is solo only. Solo vCoS or vRoM. Everything else is too easy. You don't really understand how hard PVE can be. If you run with groups you're not doing it right because I like to solo. the skill ceiling in PVE is way higher because solo vIcpHM.

See what a load of rubbish this is?

Betsararie · November 2017

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

This is why pvp is generally not practiced by a majority of players in all mmos..because it's full of arrogant elitists and children.

Pvp is not true end game..it's a feature for those extremely small amounts of people who like it. That's your end game and that's finexpensive. But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Sux

Actually the real reason more people don't play it is because it requires a lot more skill and is a lot harder. It's much more fast paced meaning you need to have good reaction times/reflexes if you want to hope to compete.

Anyone who is vocal about being against PvP, simply did not find success in it themselves. If they did they'd be playing it. But because they kept getting owned again and again, repeatedly, they feel the need to trash talk the game mode because they know they'll never be able to compete in it.

Basically, PvP is for those of us who are really good at the game. I think that's the best way to look at it.

I couldn’t disagree more. I place pvp above normal dungeons and below vet non dlc dungeons. Any non cp cannon fodder can type “lfg” into area chat and get picked up by a group. If that group has a half way decent crown and enough members, they can take a keep. Even a PVEer who’s only there to get vigor and caltrops.

You haven't been reading anything I've been saying clearly the whole 'AP gain' side of PvP is not really the part I'm interested in so I won't be referencing that in my posts.

The small scale combat is the difficult part. As far as AP gain goes, you can literally port in to a keep and not move and gain AP. I've actually ported to a keep before, stayed in the keep and gone afk and come back to thousands of AP gained just because of things going on around me. That actually happens all the time. The whole AP grind is not what I'm discussing if I'm referring to skill in PvP. Earning AP is insanely easy.

monktoasty · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

This is why pvp is generally not practiced by a majority of players in all mmos..because it's full of arrogant elitists and children.

Pvp is not true end game..it's a feature for those extremely small amounts of people who like it. That's your end game and that's finexpensive. But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Sux

Actually the real reason more people don't play it is because it requires a lot more skill and is a lot harder. It's much more fast paced meaning you need to have good reaction times/reflexes if you want to hope to compete.

Anyone who is vocal about being against PvP, simply did not find success in it themselves. If they did they'd be playing it. But because they kept getting owned again and again, repeatedly, they feel the need to trash talk the game mode because they know they'll never be able to compete in it.

Basically, PvP is for those of us who are really good at the game. I think that's the best way to look at it.

No..it's not harder...it's different. Sorry bud but if you understand gear and rotations set for pvp that's all you need..what to hit when to hit it. It doesn't take any more skill than pve.

Calboy · November 2017

My issue is there is a type of armour for pvp and a different type for pve. I want to complete pve content and pimp out my toon who I then take into pvp to show off and compete against others. It would also encourage players to get more involved in pve or pvp content without having to grind more gear.

Betsararie · November 2017

Calboy wrote: »

My issue is there is a type of armour for pvp and a different type for pve. I want to complete pve content and pimp out my toon who I then take into pvp to show off and compete against others. It would also encourage players to get more involved in pve or pvp content without having to grind more gear.

The problem is minor slayer doesn't have much use in PvP.

Fundamentally different game modes require different gear. It's not like farming it or even buying it is that hard. Customizing your char's gear is one of the best parts of PvP.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

PvP is the real endgame. If you're adequately leveled, it would make sense to want to move onto it. There is a lot more depth to PvP, it requires a lot more skill, and is a lot more fun.

And that is coming from someone who even enjoys PvE and is also a veteran of PvE.

I disagree, and I’ve been apart of ESO since beta days. PvP in the end boils down to “who can out-cheese who”. It’s that simple. What adds to that basic premise, and where the complexities come from, all lie in how an individual goes about out-cheesing their opponent. Whether that be: Animation cancelling, proc sets, poisons, perma-blocking with block-casting, mine-camping with pets, hit n’ run with cloak, fear spam, talon spam, etc. Throw in the aspect of “zerging”, and you have ESO’s PvP experience in a nutshell.

To be 100% honest, and to add to said points listed above — not even the alliance aspect of ESO’s PvP experience is legitimate. There is constant emperor-sharing and cross-alliance workings, as well as guilds sabotaging their own alliance. Why? Because for whatever the reason, the player base thought it was intelligent to add politics to PvP. So now, you’re left with a genuine mess on your hands. Which only in the end equates to a pseudo-“carrot-on-the-stick” experience, mixed with bs politics, and running simulation.

VaranisArano · November 2017

Hey, all you fellows arguing back and forth about PVE and Cyrodiil PVP? The OP asked about Battlegrounds. Maybe you could try to bring this back on topic?

FloppyTouch · November 2017

monktoasty wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

This is why pvp is generally not practiced by a majority of players in all mmos..because it's full of arrogant elitists and children.

Pvp is not true end game..it's a feature for those extremely small amounts of people who like it. That's your end game and that's finexpensive. But don't trash on pvers who probably wouldn't mind pvp if it wasnt so mentally taxing dealing with immature people whispering how much u Sux

Actually the real reason more people don't play it is because it requires a lot more skill and is a lot harder. It's much more fast paced meaning you need to have good reaction times/reflexes if you want to hope to compete.

Anyone who is vocal about being against PvP, simply did not find success in it themselves. If they did they'd be playing it. But because they kept getting owned again and again, repeatedly, they feel the need to trash talk the game mode because they know they'll never be able to compete in it.

Basically, PvP is for those of us who are really good at the game. I think that's the best way to look at it.

No..it's not harder...it's different. Sorry bud but if you understand gear and rotations set for pvp that's all you need..what to hit when to hit it. It doesn't take any more skill than pve.

I never heard of anyone useing a rotation in pvp it’s reaction based.

PvE end game when ur done ur done
PvP there is no end it keeps going that’s end game until the next update.

Then you jump back into pve clear what ever is new and go back to pvp to do end game.

PvE is easy even vet trials if you have the group for it same with vet dlc dungeons on HM is easy if you have the group that ran it and understand it. PvE only becomes hard when u pug it or run it with players that don’t know what they are doing. That’s not the dungeon or trial being hard that’s players needing to L2P.

PvP can be face roll easy too if ur in a huge Zerg but if ur out there with 2-4 ppl that takes a lot of skill.

As others said they are very different, I play both a lot and love both sides of the game but from my experience 3+ years of playing the pve side is not end game and is a lot easier to learn.

In pve someone can tell you ur rotation and the mechanics of the bosses and if you practice just a little you can be just as good as anyone else. This is just not true at all in pvp. Try to copy a player like kodi build and jump into pvp and see you fail over and over again. I can copy alcast pve builds and be almost as good with just a couple of tries on a dummy.

WaltherCarraway · November 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IMO, for all its issues, ESO is the best PVP MMO available

Agree, depite all *** the server shoveled onto my face i still like ESO PvP

fred4 · November 2017

Blanco said X = 5. Not me. That's beyond me.

There is, of course, one arena for solo players, vMA. I used to solo half the lesser dungeons before they had One Tamriel "normal" mode. The trouble with soloing content not designed for it is that there are either mechanics that prevent progress, or that they tend to be extremely tedious. I find this especially true since ZOS rebalanced mob/boss health with One Tamriel. No I could/would not do vCoS/vMazz, but I believe someone did solo vWGT.

Different attitude, man. We're solo players. If you are strictly talking objectives then, yes, I guess PvP is not hard. Blanco and I set our own objectives ... which for me is tinkering with builds and getting better at solo PvP. That, unfortunately, includes getting into 1vX situations all the time, unless you just duel.

I do not play top-end PvE, thus I cannot comment on the relative difficulty. But if Blanco has been overselling PvP, you've been belittling it. I'm a PvPer, so I came down on his side

. In truth PvP just seems more fun. For me that is a function of the unpredictability of humans at the controls, and the presumed greater amount of stuff I have to learn as a result. Learning dungeon mechanics seems ultimately more finite.

Betsararie · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

PvP is the real endgame. If you're adequately leveled, it would make sense to want to move onto it. There is a lot more depth to PvP, it requires a lot more skill, and is a lot more fun.

And that is coming from someone who even enjoys PvE and is also a veteran of PvE.

I disagree, and I’ve been apart of ESO since beta days. PvP in the end boils down to “who can out-cheese who”. It’s that simple. What adds to that basic premise, and where the complexities come from, all lie in how an individual goes about out-cheesing their opponent. Whether that be: Animation cancelling, proc sets, poisons, perma-blocking with block-casting, mine-camping with pets, hit n’ run with cloak, fear spam, talon spam, etc. Throw in the aspect of “zerging”, and you have ESO’s PvP experience in a nutshell.

To be 100% honest, and to add to said points listed above — not even the alliance aspect of ESO’s PvP experience is legitimate. There is constant emperor-sharing and cross-alliance workings, as well as guilds sabotaging their own alliance. Why? Because for whatever the reason, the player base thought it was intelligent to add politics to PvP. So now, you’re left with a genuine mess on your hands. Which only in the end equates to a pseudo-“carrot-on-the-stick” experience, mixed with bs politics, and running simulation.

Animation cancelling requires a lot of skill to do correctly, if done actually properly you can't even see your toon casting any skills or attacks because everything is being done so fast and it just looks like a jumbled blur. Playing at that pace and actually keeping track of everything around you is way harder and faster than anything in PvE in my opinion. Mix that in with being constantly attacked from all sides and no breaks. Players won't periodically stop attacking you like bosses do. They're going to continue until you're dead or they are.

I agree that there is a huge amount of cheese in PvP. That is a fact. But that doesn't mean that you don't still have to be good to implement it. As others have said you can take Kodi's exact build, put it in the hands of someone who just started in PvP and they won't be able to do anything with it. Cheese is a factor but with everyone running cheese on some level things balance out actually. Balance is actually a lot better this patch compared to when Morrowind first came around and everything was a mess.

As for the emp push side of things, I am not that interested in that at this time, more in it just to play the game right now but that's the nature of the beast. Of course it will end up being political, there's something called human nature. Don't really see anything wrong with it and given the prestige of the title of emp I think it makes perfect sense. No other way that would really be handled given the way emperor is crowned etc and the coordination that is really needed to get it. I sort of view that as a separate game altogether.

Tannus15 · November 2017

fred4 wrote: »

Blanco said X = 5. Not me. That's beyond me.

There is, of course, one arena for solo players, vMA. I used to solo half the lesser dungeons before they had One Tamriel "normal" mode. The trouble with soloing content not designed for it is that there are either mechanics that prevent progress, or that they tend to be extremely tedious. I find this especially true since ZOS rebalanced mob/boss health with One Tamriel. No I could/would not do vCoS/vMazz, but I believe someone did solo vWGT.

Different attitude, man. We're solo players. If you are strictly talking objectives then, yes, I guess PvP is not hard. Blanco and I set our own objectives ... which for me is tinkering with builds and getting better at solo PvP. That, unfortunately, includes getting into 1vX situations all the time, unless you just duel.

I do not play top-end PvE, thus I cannot comment on the relative difficulty. But if Blanco has been overselling PvP, you've been belittling it. I'm a PvPer, so I came down on his side . In truth PvP just seems more fun. For me that is a function of the unpredictability of humans at the controls, and the presumed greater amount of stuff I have to learn as a result. Learning dungeon mechanics seems ultimately more finite.

If I seem to be belittling PVP, that's not my intention. I have been trying to point out the weakness in @Blanco 's arguments by applying the same thought process to PVE.
PVP is not inherently harder unless you seek out ways to make it so.
The same can be said for PVE.

FYI : Solo vCoS

TequilaFire · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".

If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.

Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.

Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.

The thing with PvP is it requires a lot more movement and reflexes.

True that each require "different" skills. It's not like PvE doesn't require skill, I wouldn't say that.

But I had never even used a dodge roll in PvE, as an example. Dodge rolling basically doesn't exist in PvE. You always have a healer by your side. You don't have to worry about managing resources as much. Rotations take skill but it's nothing a little practice won't grant. Also in PvE there are breaks, the boss will stop attacking you and go to another group member for example. So I would really have to say PvE is a lot slower paced.

So it is true that both require different skill, but PvE is also much more relaxed. The hardest part of PvE are the one-shot mechanics from bosses and usually it will just take a couple wipes before the group gets what to do. I did a lot of all of the hard dlc dungeons before they were nerfed vWGT, vCoS, vRoM, no deathed them and speedran some of them and I enjoyed it and it does take skill, but it just isn't as hard.

You are greatly exaggerating both the difficulty of PVP and the ease of PVE. "Never dodge roll" in PVE? Really? It's literally the only way to not die in vCoS. And how is that a metric for difficulty anyway?

More movement and reflexes? Than the twins in vMoL? Than vICP warden dusk? Not from what I've seen.
I'm not a dedicated PVP'er but I've done my share. Some people will smash me every time. Enough of the time it goes the other way however.
I hate to say it but breaking line of sight, coordinating your ults and sticking together to share vigors isn't exactly black magic and it's certainly easier than passing the pinion around in vWGT.

Most of the time PVP is about threat assessment. Can you take that player / group or should you run and hide? Can you bait out a few people from the zerg so you can kill them or not?

To which I will rebut: go solo in Cyro and take on a group of 5 good CP 690s 1v5. Go on.

According to you PvP isn't that hard, so that must be easy right? It's not that hard, taking on a group 1v5 is about on the level of the warden dusk fight, amirite? LUL. Because it's so hard to jump in the blue thing on the ground. Yup!

It's not like taking on 5 good players 1v5 is next to impossible, right? No they're about the same.

I challenge you to beat all of the best players in the game in a duel. That's right, go and duel every single player who is good and beat them all. PvP is pretty easy right, so it shouldn't be that hard. Never mind that nobody can beat every other good player in a duel!

Yup, zerging doesn't require skill but being good in PvP does. Just like how Pv Door doesn't require skill. Solo play, duels, and small scale is where the skill is.

LOL, small scale unkillable builds hiding in resource towers farming ap is skill.
Tactically running the map to win the campaign apparently is not.
/sarcasm

Narvuntien · November 2017

I agree with what others have said. PVP performs terribly but is still really fun.

It is a really hard attitude adjustment to get into it if you are a high level PVEr. It is way better to start PVPing when you are bad and know you are bad than when you are good at PVE. Then build up your PVP skills from nothing. Cryodil is a chess match and you.. you are a pawn. Get used to it!

PVP is not fair, never ever fair, do not expect anyone to play fair. You have to use every tool you have available to you to win. Don't even consider honour. (edit: except the stupid cheat add on, great now I am a hypocrite)

Cryodil PVP is as much about avoiding a fight than it is about fighting. It is a HUGE map. you need to use that to your advantage be everywhere be where they expect you be where they don't expect you. Make them send a larger force to deal with you.. Zergs are extremely predictable use that knowleadge.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2017

Perma block builds need adjusting . Ps4 PVP isn't too bad but PC stinks . Too many security issues .

Goshua · November 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

IMO, for all its issues, ESO is the best PVP MMO available

True, its more whats wrong with those games rather than what is right with ESO imo, and you know its only a few things with ESO, aside from those it is a good pvp game, but nothing is ever done about them, the stale scenario/s, the questionable balance, the performance, the things that matter after the rest of the game has you hooked.

Its a shame, there will be a game eventually that ticks all the boxes, or at the very least is a fresh environment with just as bad bits and eso pvp'rs will depart. The worst part is I get the feeling they will happily let it die.

fred4 · November 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

PVP is not inherently harder unless you seek out ways to make it so.

Hey. I don't seek it out. I'm perfectly happy to duel one person at a time in Cyro or IC, but their friends always show up, and they fail to join an orderly queue

.

Yet Cyro / IC is still the easiest place to PvP. You go duelling with your friends, fine, that might be easier. You go duelling in Alik'r, on PC EU, and you'll have your ass handed to you, unless you're really good (I'm there or thereabouts, but not quite at the level of most people there). Battlegrounds, ugh, unless I'm on Teamspeak, no point in even touching them. Did I mention I'm a solo player by nature?

1v1 with a random person is nice. 1vX can be nice, if they are collectively at your level. Most of the time, however, you are really struggling, or you just die. This is where admiration for a player, like Kodi, comes in, who will surely die as well, but who handles many more up-and-comers before that happens.

Playing solo is a personality thing. When I started the game, me and my friends struggled mightily with vWGT. Around the same time I was carried through it by a group of experienced players. I had no idea where I was at. Being carried, and rushing through, was wholly unsatisfying. Being held back by a group, on the other hand, was kind of insidious. It took us days, before growing friendship and conversation got to the point where we learnt one of our group members never really bar-swapped. Playing solo gives you a much better sense of your own progress, and I usually find more satisfaction in that.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Perma block builds need adjusting . Ps4 PVP isn't too bad but PC stinks . Too many security issues .

@Rohamad_Ali Errrr... What? You’re on PS4, bruh? Mind sliding me your PSN via PM?

fred4 · November 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not fair, never ever fair, do not expect anyone to play fair. You have to use every tool you have available to you to win.

This is kind of why PvP, and 1vXing in particular, might require more skill than PvE. The latter is designed to be a fair challenge for the solo player (vMA), or the group that the content is designed for, random events stacking up in vRoM nothwithstanding. Very good PvPers constantly deal with things that the rest of us consider unfair, and no, none of us are seeking them out.

Drakkdjinn · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

PvP is the real endgame. If you're adequately leveled, it would make sense to want to move onto it. There is a lot more depth to PvP, it requires a lot more skill, and is a lot more fun.

And that is coming from someone who even enjoys PvE and is also a veteran of PvE.

This

Goshua · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

I agree that there is a huge amount of cheese in PvP. That is a fact. But that doesn't mean that you don't still have to be good to implement it. As others have said you can take Kodi's exact build, put it in the hands of someone who just started in PvP and they won't be able to do anything with it. Cheese is a factor but with everyone running cheese on some level things balance out actually. Balance is actually a lot better this patch compared to when Morrowind first came around and everything was a mess.

Not going to say Kodi (or particularly other streamers) are not good players, they are, but they generally all run stamina builds and complain about lag when it hits 50ms, lol. Pings wins above all. Always has even since rainbow 6 days when a good ping to Australia was 300 with a modem connection (forget playing in a US host) most of us Pacifica players deal with 300 plus 99% of the time.

Again not sour, not denying skill and timing, or blaming them, some good players have their shizz together and will still have their butts handed to them simply because of connection speed.

Goshua · November 2017

thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it!!

Betsararie · November 2017

fred4 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not fair, never ever fair, do not expect anyone to play fair. You have to use every tool you have available to you to win.

This is kind of why PvP, and 1vXing in particular, might require more skill than PvE. The latter is designed to be a fair challenge for the solo player (vMA), or the group that the content is designed for, random events stacking up in vRoM nothwithstanding. Very good PvPers constantly deal with things that the rest of us consider unfair, and no, none of us are seeking them out.

Absolutely, I keep referring to Kodi because he's sort of the 'gold standard' as far as good PvPers go and he's also a streamer so there is a lot of footage of his play and he is well known. Plus he has a great stream, if you haven't checked it out you should.

But he's even said it himself, by being a solo player and going out and seeking small scale fights and 1v1s that he is specifically not playing the game the way it was intended to be played, which is true. You're supposed to, ya know, form a big ball group, set up siege that whole deal. You're not supposed to go out on your own and intentionally take on groups of 3-5 people and then kill them all. The game is designed for the larger group to have a huge advantage. So that is how we can observe both how skill does indeed come into play in PvP, and the discrepancy in skill between different players.

The general rule is that you cannot 1vX players who are as good or better than you. Anyone who is familiar with 1vXing knows you're banking on the fact that you're more skilled than the group you're taking on, and that the majority of 1vXs are done against bad players.

For a second I forgot we're actually comparing PvE dungeons to the difficulty level of being a successful solo player in Cyro, the comparison is truly ludicrous.

It does come down to how you play (again theoretically speaking it is possible to gain large amounts of AP without even moving), but if you are pushing your abilities to the limit to any extent in PvP you will need your play to back you up or you will lose. A bit more depth involved compared to spamming your rotation on a stationary boss who is also simoultaneously attacking 3 other people, with a healer by your side at all times.

Malmai · November 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

@Blanco PVP and PVE are completely different builds with completely focus and play style. I wouldn't say PVP requires "more skill" but I would say it requires "different skills".

If you take any end game trials group and get them to spend as much time learning how to co-ordinate as a PVP group, getting geared up etc as they do to clear vMoL or vHoF and they will crush 95% of the time in PVP.

Yes, PVE players get wrecked when they go into PVP, of course they do. They have spent hours and hours perfecting their rotation so they can git gud and everything they have learned is useless in PVP.

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

The exceptions of course are people who do both, understand both and 99% of the time have different characters for each.

Something this game does terribly is allow you to have 1 character you can take from PVP to PVE smoothly.
you want different skills, different morphs and different gear, and that's not even taking into account play style.

So your saying zerging is the stuff...

JackWest92 · November 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

You sure? I spent above 90% of my time in Cyrodiil, and yesterday in our third attempt at second boss vMoL(where even Hodor wiped for long time) we got em to 1%. Yes, i do have pve character, but i am also only 530 cp and with this grp i raid 1-2 times a week. Probably you were just refering to the people who do ONLY pvp, but i also agree with the guy who said pvp has higher skill cap. In pvp you can only 'expect' whats gonna happen when, against the bad player who always incap after ambush for example. Majority of the time you have no idea what the enemy is gonna do. In trials, give me 2-3 pulls and i will know exactly whats gonna happen when, so its easily memorable

FloppyTouch · November 2017

JackWest92 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

You sure? I spent above 90% of my time in Cyrodiil, and yesterday in our third attempt at second boss vMoL(where even Hodor wiped for long time) we got em to 1%. Yes, i do have pve character, but i am also only 530 cp and with this grp i raid 1-2 times a week. Probably you were just refering to the people who do ONLY pvp, but i also agree with the guy who said pvp has higher skill cap. In pvp you can only 'expect' whats gonna happen when, against the bad player who always incap after ambush for example. Majority of the time you have no idea what the enemy is gonna do. In trials, give me 2-3 pulls and i will know exactly whats gonna happen when, so its easily memorable

I agree most of the pvp players don’t go into pve land with a full pvp build we use a pve build and cp to boost our damage. The thing that makes pvp player able to adapt better to pve then a pve player to pvp is better situation awareness. When it’s just rotation and learning mechanics and a few dps test on a dummy it’s not hard at all.

PvE to pvp is a lot different it’s not just knowing ur class and how to dish out damage but knowing every class and how to survive there damage how to counter each class different.

JackWest92 · November 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Likewise if you take a PVP'er into a vet DLC dungeon you're going to have a bad time. They will either do very poor damage or they will be completely out of resources.

You sure? I spent above 90% of my time in Cyrodiil, and yesterday in our third attempt at second boss vMoL(where even Hodor wiped for long time) we got em to 1%. Yes, i do have pve character, but i am also only 530 cp and with this grp i raid 1-2 times a week. Probably you were just refering to the people who do ONLY pvp, but i also agree with the guy who said pvp has higher skill cap. In pvp you can only 'expect' whats gonna happen when, against the bad player who always incap after ambush for example. Majority of the time you have no idea what the enemy is gonna do. In trials, give me 2-3 pulls and i will know exactly whats gonna happen when, so its easily memorable

I agree most of the pvp players don’t go into pve land with a full pvp build we use a pve build and cp to boost our damage. The thing that makes pvp player able to adapt better to pve then a pve player to pvp is better situation awareness. When it’s just rotation and learning mechanics and a few dps test on a dummy it’s not hard at all.

PvE to pvp is a lot different it’s not just knowing ur class and how to dish out damage but knowing every class and how to survive there damage how to counter each class different.

Thats what i am saying