Balamoor wrote: »

You know...it's nice to see more and more people on this forum seeing the whole crying about loot crates for what it is....

idiotic mock outrage.

Loot crates aren't the problem

The problem is any game that after you buy it prevents you from completing the game unless you sink more money into it

To put what EA did with need for speed into ESO terms for you all

Imagine starting a character but to unlock a skill you have to find it in a loot box, you buy a loot box and you unlock the ability assassin's blade

Great only your a Templar not a night blade ... Unlucky buy another loot box or stick with heavy n light attacks cos you've reached your XP limit for the day

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I can't wait to get new DLCs only from crown crates.

Don't even give them that idea. It will become irresistable. They will drop everyong to give us Apex DLCs.

SugaComa wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

You know...it's nice to see more and more people on this forum seeing the whole crying about loot crates for what it is....

idiotic mock outrage.

Loot crates aren't the problem

The problem is any game that after you buy it prevents you from completing the game unless you sink more money into it

I'm fairly certain everyone understands that part. The current topic overrunning every "crates are bad/fine" thread is the concept of gambling addiction. The only problem is, in those arguments, everyone's an idiot to the people they don't agree with. Nobody reads, everyone skims to pick out specific phrases they hate, and no real discussion happens; we're just shouting at each other from our individual psychology armchairs, over an issue that's extremely nuanced, barely studied in relation to video games, and largely subjective anyway.

What EA did is a nightmare, but at this point, nobody should be surprised by their behavior. What EA did is not the same system we have in ESO. To compare them is to compare apples and oranges: both are fruits, and that's the extent of their relationship. In this case, both are loot crate systems, and that's the extent of their relationship. So when people come in trying to decry the "expensive cosmetics only" aspect of this game's boxes by comparing them to the "your hands are tied until you buy them" aspect of the other, people are rightfully going to say that the argument makes no sense.

The basic facts:

• The crates we have are not helping anyone to play the game better, nor are they hindering any core gameplay. Cosmetics are desired, not necessary; they are a tangential aspect of the game, not a primary component. If they were primary, we'd get game packs and DLC with only costumes and mounts in them, instead of dungeons or new regions to quest in; this is an Elder Scrolls game, not The Sims Medieval - MMO Edition.
• No amount of complaining about crown crates is going to get rid of them, unless the powers that be come up with something even more profitable. Crown crates are a resource dumping ground, geared toward convincing people to spend large amounts of crowns at once; so is player housing (at the nickel and dime level) but spending habits, as of yet, do not appear to justify an increase in housing item slots.

...inb4 someone takes my comments completely out of context and twists what I've said in order to perpetuate an unintended argument.

Slick_007 wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

But EA are making it so loot boxes become a subscription to allow game progression with no guarantee that you will get what you need to complete the progression

this thread isnt about EA. if it is, then this thread will be shut by the mods. so we dont give a damn in here what EA are doing.
this is about ESO loot crates. and theres nothing wrong with them.

Erm I started this thread and I did it to highlight the slippery slope were on to ensure that ESO doesn't fall foul of the real issue here which is while loot boxes remain optional then who am I to decide what other do or don't do with Thier own money ( gambling addictions aside that's for another thread ) but as soon as ESO starts to tie progression into loot crates like EA has which if the model succeeds you will see more of then we are going to run into real problems as game consumers

SugaComa wrote: »

I'm seeing lots of posts about loot boxes, most people are missing the whole thing

Government are jumping on a band wagon, gamers have used the wrong words and analogies to complain about what is happening ...

So here it is in short

Some games coming out are actively create the progression system on paid for loot boxes

SWBF was the most prominent one as it's links to Disney as a children's entertainment business has made the formula for this progression system front and center of the media ... But need for speed is also doing something similar

Soon gamers will have to buy a game and invest in a randomised loot box experience to build and modify and progress through a game instead of simply playing it at their own leisure, if you want to race ahead you will have to pay for the privilege to "gamble" on a chance to progress or wait X amount of time before continuing

It's the mobile gaming model breaking into AAA titles

Please read this article and understand what it is real gamers are fighting against when it comes to loot boxes ...

As for the gambling and saving the children thing ... Well you should be doing that as individuals with in your own environment not relying on governments to put one more thing in place to absolve you of the responsibility of your own actions or inactions as an individual or a parent

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/11/14/activision-is-doing-loot-boxes-right-ea-is-doing-them-horribly-wrong/#6669ad23b247

What is the point of this post? Nobody is looking at this from a "save the children" perspective. You've created a strawman for the purpose of making a pointless thread.

Gaming was definately not better in the past. Gaming was the hobby of only the very small number of people that could afford both the computer to run the games and the games themselves. The games made at this time were made to appeal to the very small number of people that could afford them... people like you. Its not that gaming is somehow worse, it is just less tailored to your particular wants. That includes game difficulty and time requirements.

A free game funded by mircotransactions is a powerful tool in a game developers arsenal. It completely removes the very first barrier of entry for any game its price. We live in a world where having a computer is almost mandatory and people of many financial situations have a computer. And it doesn't have to be a good one, my computer is 10 years old, not like the old days where you had to update your computer every couple of years or the best games stopped working.

Used well mircotransactions solve one of a gamers life biggest life contradictions. You start off with lots of time but no money to buy games. Then you get a job and work your way up now you have plenty of money to buy games but no time to play the things. Mircotransactions mean people with plenty of time and not a lot of money can just jump right in and start playing. They populate the world and give it life. What about people with plenty of money but not a lot of time... that is where the mircotransactions come in. They get to add to thier gaming experience even if they gaming experience is lesser than people with more time. They get quality over quantity.

There are plenty of ways to abuse mircotransactions, one of the worst ways and one that is common for mobile games is the pay for more game time thing.. "oh no you are out of energy give us money". Because that is violating the advantage that people with not a lot of money and plenty of time have. The other way is when you push too hard on the otherside of the coin.... "Hey you, got no time to play but lots of money, here pay to win, so you can get back to all that important things you should be doing". This destorys the value of game time. The game stop being about playing and starts being about paying. This just causes the players not paying to just leave because thier game time is not valuable. Both these things are probably making money for the companies but they are not using mircotransactions well.

In summary: mircotransactions are not bad infact they are one of the best gaming inivations in history. Used well they solve the issue of no money for games and no time for games issues at the same time.

Narvuntien wrote: »

In summary: mircotransactions are not bad infact they are one of the best gaming inivations in history. Used well they solve the issue of no money for games and no time for games issues at the same time.

So instead of paying for entertaining games of varied genres well get grind fests limited to the few genres that lend themselves well to monetization by mtx. And they wont be free, because this is the real world, not some imaginary place where mtx have been done right. Theyll be $60+$40+mtx. No big company will 'make things right' when they can double their profits by making things the way that brings in the most money. The smaller studios? They can be bought and killed off.

wayfarerx wrote: »

nolangrady wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

nolangrady wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

As for the gambling and saving the children thing ... Well you should be doing that as individuals with in your own environment not relying on governments to put one more thing in place to absolve you of the responsibility of your own actions or inactions as an individual or a parent

You don't seem to understand the concept of addiction ...

You probably don't understand the concept of personal responsibility.

Also a bad take.

What is your take?

That scamboxes are bad for gameplay reasons, that compulsive disorders (like gambling addictions) are a mental health issue and that exploiting such disabilities is unethical.

Not sure if you noticed, but ethics dont exist in the current modern world sadly. Altho I completely agree with you, I think we cant expect the people on top to be moral of ethic about these choices. The world runs on power and money at the moment, and you cant get either of them without the other. Thats the real problem.

Microtransactions (MTX) aren't an issue when you understand what you are buying

They are a problem in a game like new need for speed, I get a car I have to upgrade it to be able to beat the race to move on in the game

Now to upgrade I need a new rigid suspension set, wheels and transmition ... How do I get these

Well I can grind the game for two years and hope they drop in a random loot box

Or I can buy loot boxes and hope they drop now which is more valuable to me

Money or time , but no matter what if I spend time or money I only get a chance of getting the parts I need to move on to the next race where there I need to buy a new car and now I need to upgrade that one now ... I can't use my kit off the old car, so I'm back to sinking money or time to have a chance

Now in destiny I had a chance at winning a weapon the lack of that weapon never prevented me from completing content as long as I had the skill

Same for many other games

But EA are actively preventing progression with RNG based loot boxes awarded in game and via store purchases for real money ... This is what has to be stopped, this is what need to be brought to an end ... I don't buy a game for a chance to play it ..

Imagine buying a game but instead of the game you got a box that may contain the game it may contain a hat ... You just wouldn't buy it

Microtransactions are fine if you know what you are getting, loot boxes are fine as lone as they do not halt progression of you don't get the item you need

Needs and wants are two very different things things you need should never be RNG based in a game things you want are fine though