Do you get offended by "racist" comments here on the forums and ingame?

Vimora · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

Yes, I get offended by racist comments pertaining to in-game races, because they clearly show that people who are making them are completely insensitive to racism issues in the real world. I get offended that ZOS does nothing about these threads despite people reporting them. On the other hand, they outright removed my thread that made people aware of a running petition to the UK government regarding gambling in video games. I no longer play this game and I am disgusted by the practices of this company.

It is ironically close-minded to assume such a thing. Irl, I despise racism. It is a sad truth that segregation still exists in places like Israel.

My character is fictional, and so are his views. Reading a book such as Animal Farm doesn't make one communist. Quite the contrary! Exploring errant views makes one more prone to recognizing such views as 'bad' out-of-character.

Obviouly, racism is featured in many works of art and fiction. We can and should talk about it. However, making racist comments is quite a different story. And no, you can't hide behind the "I was just roleplaying" story.

How about making jokes about sexual harrassment? You wouldn't dare do that now, right? A few months earlier I bet you had no problem doing that. Same thing is true of racism, it's not ok to joke about it. Or do we need some kind of big scandal to make people realize this, too?

I am a white European. I've never been discriminated against on account of my race. However, I possess a sense of empathy and feel for those who have.

Vimora · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

Yes, I get offended by racist comments pertaining to in-game races, because they clearly show that people who are making them are completely insensitive to racism issues in the real world. I get offended that ZOS does nothing about these threads despite people reporting them. On the other hand, they outright removed my thread that made people aware of a running petition to the UK government regarding gambling in video games. I no longer play this game and I am disgusted by the practices of this company.

I hate people who bought the Dark Brotherhood. It clearly shows they are insensitive to murder in real life.

Thanks for the fallacious analogy and joking about murder. Do you know what it's like when someone you love gets murdered?

Nightfall12 · November 2017

Yes

I said Yes. I'm not some snowflake that gets offended easily, and if you think that is the case whatever. But I see these jokes as something bigger than what they might be intended as. Even the fictional joking can mimic real behavior that is founded in clear hate. Making light of it even in a way that is only targeting "fake" races can still resonate with people that have been victimized by real hatred. Yes this game has lore with clear cases of Hate. We see complex social orders in this game that mimic our own history. These are in place to bring depth and consequence to this fictional world. By making them a punchline it cheapens the depth and the moral impact they are present to provide.
So does it bother me when i see these jokes, often it does.

Ratzkifal · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

@Vimora
Roleplaying is like writing a story. Of course you can all have the same, sane opinions and live in a perfect world in your roleplay. But a setting like that has no appeal. Conflict is part of the human experience and just as you said it is featured in many works of art and fiction. Roleplaying is writing your own fiction. You allow the makers of games to write in racism to create conflict, but you don't allow RPers to use racism to create conflict in their roleplay? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Yes, I get that this does not mean you should take your roleplaying to the forums, but I don't see why you shouldn't. This is a forum of a game that is at least in parts about roleplaying, so naturally the forums should have room for that (even outside the roleplay section).

Elusiin · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

Annoyed, not offended. You shouldn't look for reasons to exclude, laugh at, stereotype, or belittle a group of human beings for being born different, regardless of whether that's sexual identity, orientation, race, ethnicity, etc. No one gets to choose how or where they're born, and so we make best with what we have. It's hard to see that you've got a good life and you're privileged when you're biggest struggle in life is being grounded from your computer. There are actually people who suffer: people who have been made fun of on a daily basis, had death threats at school, been homeless, been abandoned by their parents, had loved ones die to drug overdoses, suffer with bipolar disorder or another mental illness, had their family members blown apart by another country's military, and so on. The world is not a pretty place, but it could be better if we tried to understand each other's pain and worked to make it better. So please, just stop making these crude remarks.

I'd hardly count lizards as "human beings."

Before you get back on your high horse, you can check several things off your list for me. Doesn't mean I whine about it. Doesn't mean I have to let everyone know so I can be a 'special snowflake.' People have to learn to cope and deal with their problems. Everyone has problems, whether apparent or not. Knowing how to deal with them doesn't make someone 'privileged.'

I feel the point is to be humble about it, understand there's always someone who has it worse, and to try to be a better human being. I don't understand the lizard reference, did I make a typo? People don't have to do anything, we all have free will. I never defined privileged as someone who knows how to deal with their problems, not sure why you made that assumption.

Ratzkifal · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

Nightfall12 wrote: »

I said Yes. I'm not some snowflake that gets offended easily, and if you think that is the case whatever. But I see these jokes as something bigger than what they might be intended as. Even the fictional joking can mimic real behavior that is founded in clear hate. Making light of it even in a way that is only targeting "fake" races can still resonate with people that have been victimized by real hatred. Yes this game has lore with clear cases of Hate. We see complex social orders in this game that mimic our own history. These are in place to bring depth and consequence to this fictional world. By making them a punchline it cheapens the depth and the moral impact they are present to provide.
So does it bother me when i see these jokes, often it does.

Thank you for being a sane person with good reasoning for the yes-side.
I do disagree with your position as I think that nothing should be regarded as holy and you should be allowed to joke about anything and everything, since breaking tabboos is part of what makes jokes funny.
But you really said the most important thing to consider. Our jokes "cheapen the deal". The very serious game-internal topic of racism just can't be taken seriously anymore if everyone associates Argonians with handbags. And yes, people might actually really get hurt when their favorite character, that struggles with the same hate that they struggle with, gets called a handbag.
However, as I already stated, I think that especially because of this seriousness we need to have these jokes and this fake-racism. If anyone insults your favorite race, insult theirs. This behavior has little to do with actual hate, which this is a parody on and nobody should be as attached to something fictional to get actually hurt over it. After all, it's just a game. Not your home, not your familly.

Ratzkifal · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

@DanteMR1995

I feel the point is to be humble about it, understand there's always someone who has it worse, and to try to be a better human being. I don't understand the lizard reference, did I make a typo? People don't have to do anything, we all have free will. I never defined privileged as someone who knows how to deal with their problems, not sure why you made that assumption.

I think he was refering to the fact that telling lizards (Argonians) to be better human beings is already racist towards them.

Elusiin · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

I feel the point is to be humble about it, understand there's always someone who has it worse, and to try to be a better human being. I don't understand the lizard reference, did I make a typo? People don't have to do anything, we all have free will. I never defined privileged as someone who knows how to deal with their problems, not sure why you made that assumption.

I think he was refering to the fact that telling lizards (Argonians) to be better human beings is already racist towards them.
[/quote]

Ohhh I get it. Thought we were talking about real world racism.

ThePrinceOfBargains · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

Vimora wrote: »

I am a white European. I've never been discriminated against on account of my race. However, I possess a sense of empathy and feel for those who have.

I’m a black American. I have been discriminated against on account of my race and will likely have to face it again several times in the future. However, I’m able to separate reality from fiction and don’t get offended when people talk crap about talking cats and lizards, and although they may very well be, I certainly don’t assume they’re legitimate racists using it as an outlet for hate.

And before someone asks rhetorically to try and make a point, no I don’t even care when people do it to Redguards. And I don’t say I’m not offended, then at the same time make passive-aggressive comments belittling people that joke like this, showing that I am indeed offended.

laurajf · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

I can't roleplay/pretend to be someone in game who doesn't have the same values as I have in real life. I just can't fake something like that because it's so against my beliefs/morals. This includes racism. I don't care if it fits lore or whatever. I detest racism/treating people like crap, , making people slaves, etc. Lore doesn't make me agree with it or condone it. It's evil. It implies you're better than someone else and no one is better than anyone else, fake or real. I just can't pretend to agree with something that I am truly against IRL.

Put yourself in the other person's shoes. That's how I live life/how I live in-game life too.

I also don't turn into a jerk online because of anonymity. Every time I see that excuse used as to why people are nasty online, I shake my head. I personally think any jerks online/anyone who is racist, etc. think that way in real life too because I don't know how people can change their personality from being a decent human to a jerk just because they're online. Doesn't make sense to me.

Probably too much detail. Sorry.

WaltherCarraway · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

Dunmer master race

Nightfall12 · November 2017

Yes

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Nightfall12 wrote: »

I said Yes. I'm not some snowflake that gets offended easily, and if you think that is the case whatever. But I see these jokes as something bigger than what they might be intended as. Even the fictional joking can mimic real behavior that is founded in clear hate. Making light of it even in a way that is only targeting "fake" races can still resonate with people that have been victimized by real hatred. Yes this game has lore with clear cases of Hate. We see complex social orders in this game that mimic our own history. These are in place to bring depth and consequence to this fictional world. By making them a punchline it cheapens the depth and the moral impact they are present to provide.
So does it bother me when i see these jokes, often it does.

Thank you for being a sane person with good reasoning for the yes-side.
I do disagree with your position as I think that nothing should be regarded as holy and you should be allowed to joke about anything and everything, since breaking tabboos is part of what makes jokes funny.
But you really said the most important thing to consider. Our jokes "cheapen the deal". The very serious game-internal topic of racism just can't be taken seriously anymore if everyone associates Argonians with handbags. And yes, people might actually really get hurt when their favorite character, that struggles with the same hate that they struggle with, gets called a handbag.
However, as I already stated, I think that especially because of this seriousness we need to have these jokes and this fake-racism. If anyone insults your favorite race, insult theirs. This behavior has little to do with actual hate, which this is a parody on and nobody should be as attached to something fictional to get actually hurt over it. After all, it's just a game. Not your home, not your familly.

Can i quote myself being quoted?

I think what our world has lost is the ability to have sound calm rational debate. So I try to think with an eye on what the other side of the debate is seeing.
I do agree with you that humor is a key aspect and being able to laugh at something is important. However i do not agree with the statement that nothing is sacred and everything is fair game. While sometimes there are ways to find humor in places others would not, humor is a subjective exchange, there is the deliverer of the joke and then there is the audience for the joke. The problem arises when the audience perceives the joker to speak from a place of cruelty. It does not matter what the intentions of the speaker is if it is perceived to be hurtful. Given that a public forum means there is not control over the audience there will be times when things are best left for other venues. Look there are people who will claim it is their right to say what ever they want. Those people are basically saying they don't care if their words offend, so they are speaking with a tint of cruelty.
ok lets put to something else.
There are people that like pineapple on pizza, and then there are people that think this is an abomination. Well if you are at a pizza place and you prefer pineapple-less pizza, you don't really have a say over the next tables pineapple pizza. But if that guy keeps flicking chunks of pineapple at you…
ok forget all that, because now i want pizza….

Niobium · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

ArchMikem wrote: »

People have gotten REALLY tired of having to read yet one more "Argonians make great BBQ'd Kebabs".

Lol awesome joke - I hadn't heard that before!

geonsocal · November 2017

these threads tend to be very enlightening in regards to the forum community...

all jokes aside, in tamriel, irl, I try to encourage folks to speak their mind...better to know what type of person you might be dealing with...

maybe they're someone whom totally immerses themselves within the lore and larger elder scrolls world...

maybe they're just - odd and unique...

MythicEmperor · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

Vimora wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

Yes, I get offended by racist comments pertaining to in-game races, because they clearly show that people who are making them are completely insensitive to racism issues in the real world. I get offended that ZOS does nothing about these threads despite people reporting them. On the other hand, they outright removed my thread that made people aware of a running petition to the UK government regarding gambling in video games. I no longer play this game and I am disgusted by the practices of this company.

It is ironically close-minded to assume such a thing. Irl, I despise racism. It is a sad truth that segregation still exists in places like Israel.

My character is fictional, and so are his views. Reading a book such as Animal Farm doesn't make one communist. Quite the contrary! Exploring errant views makes one more prone to recognizing such views as 'bad' out-of-character.

Obviouly, racism is featured in many works of art and fiction. We can and should talk about it. However, making racist comments is quite a different story. And no, you can't hide behind the "I was just roleplaying" story.

How about making jokes about sexual harrassment? You wouldn't dare do that now, right? A few months earlier I bet you had no problem doing that. Same thing is true of racism, it's not ok to joke about it. Or do we need some kind of big scandal to make people realize this, too?

I am a white European. I've never been discriminated against on account of my race. However, I possess a sense of empathy and feel for those who have.

You just proved my point.

Let me put it this way, continuing @Ratzkifal's analogy of roleplaying being a story. Look at Star Wars. How interesting would the OT be without the Empire? How interesting would the new trilogy be without the First Order? Stories need antagonists, but antagonists need governments and personalities and values to be realistic. In order to make a character a clear antagonist, it is best to make their views clash with what is typically seen as 'right.' What better system for my 'bad' antagonist to uphold than slavery? Such a system clearly sets his culture up as backwards. That's the intent! A realistic character wouldn't simply uphold such a cruel and barbaric insitution without justification, however. No one is 'evil' for the sake of being 'evil.' Anything can be jusified so long as people are willing to believe it, and in a world where races have different physical and mental characteristics, 'racism' isn't hard to justify.

Back to my point: "It is ironically close-minded to assume such a thing."

You believe that I would joke about real issues such as sexual harassment just because I am open-minded enough to accept that my fictional character doesn't have to represent my real values. If anything should be found offensive in this thread, it is your ignorant and disgusting claim.

What would it matter even if I had some strange prejudice against lizard people in the real world? They don't exist! Unless there is a sentient and humanoid lizard existing in the real world, my jokes hurt no one. The same goes for cats, which I absolutely adore IRL.

Dhukath · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

So I take it the peeps who are offended are also affected by the in game cannibalism, drug taking, ABH, GBH, murder and other issues that are deemed illegal, immoral or offensive IRL?

MythicEmperor · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

Ohhh I get it. Thought we were talking about real world racism.

Ah, my bad. The thread is about in-game racism, so I assumed you were talking about that. I definitely agree in that case. Irl, no one should hinder anyone in any way for something so meaningless.

geonsocal · November 2017

https://youtu.be/miFDbqnZKBo

MythicEmperor · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

Dhukath wrote: »

So I take it the peeps who are offended are also affected by the in game cannibalism, drug taking, ABH, GBH, murder and other issues that are deemed illegal, immoral or offensive IRL?

I doubt it. Many have this backwards morality in which murder, torture, and genocide are perfectly A OK so long as slavery isn't mentioned.

And don't give me that (referring to said individuals) "slavery is worse because it lasts longer." That isn't always true. Torture can last much longer than slavery (depending on the life span of the individual), and it is glorified by Molag Bal in the main questline, yet it's no biggie, right? You can't virtue signal to your SJW friends about torture like you can slavery, right?

Ugh. This twisted mentality makes my head spin. Make up your minds; is it ok for bad things to happen in fiction because it isn't real, or is it not because it hurts your feelings too badly?

DaveMoeDee · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

So long as the jokes are based on Tamriel, and not people sneaking in their real-world bigotry.

logarifmik · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

We in Russia don't know what racism and political correctness is.

SydneyGrey · November 2017

No, But I don't make these jokes.

I don't get offended by it, because they're just fictional races, but I find it annoying when the same person makes endless jokes about the same race (such as "_______ should be slaves"). That starts getting awful when taken to excess and repeated over and over.

Balamoor wrote: »

I've never once seen actual racism on the forums, the mods would be all over that crap...

I sure as heck have. Multiple people reported it, though, so it got shut down pretty quickly. I hope the person got a perma-ban for it. The sad thing was that multiple people "liked" his awful racist post, and I don't know if any of the people who "liked" it were banned. Probably not. Again, this was racism against a real-life race, not a fictional one.

ZiRM · November 2017

Nope.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · November 2017

Niobium wrote: »

You know political correctness has gone too far when people get offended on behalf of fictional races in a fantasy game.

There's plenty of RL stuff to be offended over! Like vegetarian bacon. It tastes like lies and deceit.

^ This.

I used to convince myself that vegetarian bacon was not only edible, but enjoyable.
Now... ...I just eat real bacon.

Getting offended by internet comments about fictional races in a fantasy pretend world?!?!?
Has human intelligence really sunk that low?

All The Best

Morvane · November 2017

No and I like to joke.

All Races Must Serve Our Great Nation (c) Dunmers

Gandrhulf_Harbard · November 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

After all, jokes ought to be funny for everyone, with everyone laughing together. not one group laughing about another group.

99% of all jokes that have ever existed are about one or more groups laughing about one or more other groups.

Your idea of what a joke should be would mean an end to just about all comedy.

All The Best

Mureel · November 2017

No, But I don't make these jokes.

If you cannot be humourous without resorting to racist or other potshots then you’re just not funny.

Orticia · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

In real life: Not so much offended, but it does tick me off. Equally so if it's not me the racist comment is aimed at but someone else. I simply hate racism, it's stupid, people are people... stop making boxes to put them in and then feel justified to set fire to whatever box you conveniently don't belong too. It is rather telling after all that people almost never set fire to their own box.

In game racism. Not a big fan, then again not really bothered by it either. Same with violence. Hate it in real life, in games and movies I don't usually. it all depends on why it is done and how. It is often used to tell a story, bring tension and all that.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · November 2017

Vimora wrote: »

I am a white European. I've never been discriminated against on account of my race. However, I possess a sense of empathy and feel for those who have.

Then you are lucky.

I am white, and European and I HAVE been discriminated against on account of my race; so I suggest my sense of empathy for others who have suffered such discrimination is slightly more attuned than yours.

And taking offense at make believe racism aimed at make believe races belittles genuine real world racism.

All The Best

Vimora · November 2017

Yes and I don't make these jokes.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@Vimora
Roleplaying is like writing a story. Of course you can all have the same, sane opinions and live in a perfect world in your roleplay. But a setting like that has no appeal. Conflict is part of the human experience and just as you said it is featured in many works of art and fiction. Roleplaying is writing your own fiction. You allow the makers of games to write in racism to create conflict, but you don't allow RPers to use racism to create conflict in their roleplay? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Yes, I get that this does not mean you should take your roleplaying to the forums, but I don't see why you shouldn't. This is a forum of a game that is at least in parts about roleplaying, so naturally the forums should have room for that (even outside the roleplay section).

When you post in a forum people will not assume you are roleplaying. Forums usually have a separate section for roleplaying where it is obvious. Games often have roleplaying servers or a way to indicate that you are roleplaying in-game by changing the color of your nameplate, for example.

This game has a realistic art style. Quests often make you relate to characters in an emotional way. Full voice acting only serves to augment this and your immersion. If you've played this game and then come to the forum to express that Argonians are no more than your boots and handbags, that's not funny, it just shows you're an emotional cripple.

I played the Dark Brotherhood and it wasn't worth the bad taste it left in my mouth. The Gold Coast Is a very nice area and that's about the only thing the DLC has going for it.