Which Faction Is Considered The "Good Guys"

Kuramas9tails · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Because Razum-Dar.

Shardan4968 · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

Lyserus · November 2017

Daggerfall Covenant

I'm just here to take note of this perfect 33%/33%/33% moment

logarifmik · November 2017

None. I'm with Daggerfall Covenant, but don't simplify complex war relations, please.

Demycilian · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

You yourself claimed that the VH would still have cells within AD. Is it so hard to see how the wrong sort of person was pulling the strings to have certain elements undermine the legit AD war efforts, namely to destabilize the Shadowfenn via the skin robber shenanigans. The Argonians support a war against AD, after all.

Dottzgaming · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

The fact that this poll is almost perfectly split 33/33/33 is amazing xD

Enslaved · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

For me its EP.
EP was made out of necessity to defend our lands from Akaviri invaders.
EP is working on abolishing slavery on its territory.
EP has 3 most diverse races in their ranks and they all work for a single goal - liberation of our lands and nations.

ssewallb14_ESO · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

Although they're probably the worst culturally, it seems their goal in the Alliance War is to legitimately defend their respective homelands. AD and DC both seem to want some kind of continent-wide dictatorship.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The difference is , they may be egotistical and pompous, but at least they dont enslave, and pillage their own allies. Actions speak louder than words.

Your going to have to be more specific on that, are you talking about the empire, the covenant, and can you actually point to an instance? Because I dont remember the Covenant, or the imperials enslaving anyone.

I do remember the several instances where humans were inslaved however. By elves.

We are talking about recently. And recently the Bretons and Redguards have absolutely laid WASTE to wrothgar, on several occasions.And recently, even if slavery was made illegal by the pact argonians are still shoved into being indentured servants and in some places the slave trade thrives even with the pact, who just turns a blind eye. As for the elves you speak of, there are two instances, the Ayleids, which also enslaved lesser elves, and the snow elves who only did this because humans were literally trying to wipe them out and stealing their land.

DMuehlhausen · November 2017

Which ever one you are on.

History only remembers the victors, and the enemy of of your faction is always viewed as the evil.

Shardan4968 · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

You yourself claimed that the VH would still have cells within AD. Is it so hard to see how the wrong sort of person was pulling the strings to have certain elements undermine the legit AD war efforts, namely to destabilize the Shadowfenn via the skin robber shenanigans. The Argonians support a war against AD, after all.

Soldiers who invaded Shadowfen didn't look like Veiled Heritance. Main Skin-Stealer was a Khajiit, so it doesn't look like Heritance discriminating other two races of the dominion. Argonians support war against AD, but they don't burn Valenwood trees, or slaughter villagers in their homes. Maybe it's not Ayreen who commands Dominion then, looks everything she actually does is talking about peace, instead of acting.

Demycilian · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

You yourself claimed that the VH would still have cells within AD. Is it so hard to see how the wrong sort of person was pulling the strings to have certain elements undermine the legit AD war efforts, namely to destabilize the Shadowfenn via the skin robber shenanigans. The Argonians support a war against AD, after all.

Soldiers who invaded Shadowfen didn't look like Veiled Heritance. Main Skin-Stealer was a Khajiit, so it doesn't look like Heritance discriminating other two races of the dominion. Argonians support war against AD, but they don't burn Valenwood trees, or slaughter villagers in their homes. Maybe it's not Ayreen who commands Dominion then, looks everything she actually does is talking about peace, instead of acting.

My take on it it's simply inconsistent with the AD story line and another example of rushed and clumsy designing in a game that was clearly released too early. (anyone who played the game in 2014 is likely to agree)

Trying to play it off as VH messing around/an operation gone rogue is merely an attempt to make ends meet. But honestly, how can anyone take that hillarious caricature seriously? That bosmeri soldier screeching in a feeding frenzy "i will devour all your babies!!21!" or somesuch? Give me a break.

Cardhwion · November 2017

Khaeon wrote: »

Not up to date on the lore

None of them is good, they all have good sides, bad sides, politicians and idiots. What I like about ESO is that they do not have stereotypical good guys and bad guys but each side has their good and bad aspects.

Shardan4968 · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

You yourself claimed that the VH would still have cells within AD. Is it so hard to see how the wrong sort of person was pulling the strings to have certain elements undermine the legit AD war efforts, namely to destabilize the Shadowfenn via the skin robber shenanigans. The Argonians support a war against AD, after all.

Soldiers who invaded Shadowfen didn't look like Veiled Heritance. Main Skin-Stealer was a Khajiit, so it doesn't look like Heritance discriminating other two races of the dominion. Argonians support war against AD, but they don't burn Valenwood trees, or slaughter villagers in their homes. Maybe it's not Ayreen who commands Dominion then, looks everything she actually does is talking about peace, instead of acting.

My take on it it's simply inconsistent with the AD story line and another example of rushed and clumsy designing in a game that was clearly released too early. (anyone who played the game in 2014 is likely to agree)

Trying to play it off as VH messing around/an operation gone rogue is merely an attempt to make ends meet. But honestly, how can anyone take that hillarious caricature seriously? That bosmeri soldier screeching in a feeding frenzy "i will devour all your babies!!21!" or somesuch? Give me a break.

Well, good or bad the story is still story and we can't argue with it. Invasion like this needs months of preparation, many funds and an army. It's hard to believe that queen didn't know anything about it. We can speculate that it was part of the dark plan of Veiled Heritance all along, but again it's just speculation and cannot be proven. There was not enough racism, supremacism and necromancy to remind about VH, there were no references to it or to the Veiled Queen. My point is that Aldmeri Dominion or other two alliances cannot be considered as "good guys", because there is NEVER good side in war IRL or in The Elder Scrolls universe. Orrery says nothing about Dominion, only about Ayreen. Also we don't know what Ayleids considered as "pure heart". And It's hard to find somebody else as kind as Ayreen If she dies during the war. I chose EP, because I like them, I fight for them and I'm proud of it, but I would easily find some of their sins. Fight for your alliance that's all.

Asardes · November 2017

Molag Bal, since will make everyone equal as soul shriven, give them a job in the Wailing Prison and have them provided with everything. Just kidding, I grew up in Eastern Europe in the 1980s so I know how it turned out

Demycilian · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

EP - Nords and Argonians are warmongers and savages and Dark Elves are slave traders and xenophobes
DC - Redguards and Orcs are warmongers and savages and Bretons are mercantile imperialists
AD - High Elves are ruled by a queen that is pure of heart (this is confirmed by a magical device during a story quest), while the Khajiit and Bosmer are her lovable allies

I think the answer to this question is obvious.

Hmm, u like to generalize don't you? How about bosmers - savages and canibals, khajits - drug dealers and skooma addicts.
If you think that the fact Ayreen is good means whole alliance is good, then tell me what wrong Joruun or Emeric did? Orrery is just Orrery, we don't know how it define "pure heart". It was created by Ayleids after all, so it could mean glory for elves and doom to humans. You can speculate if your belowed queen didn't know about Shadowfen, but we don't know it for sure. She is still just mortal ruler who wants do dominate over other provinces of Tamriel.

During the Alliance War, the Renrijra Maor were hired by the Aldmeri Dominion as privateers. They raided the coast of Glenumbra, seeking to conquer the shores, which elicited an attack by the Breton Navy. In 2E 582, they began operating along the western coast of Morrowind and Black Marsh. They attempted to enslave the Argonian population of Silent Mire, a village in Deshaan, but were driven off by a series of counter strikes. They were also responsible for helping to supply the failed Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, but changed allegiance to the local pirate boss Captain One-Eye after their leader was killed.

Hiring pirates, yo dominion? Looks like perfect way to make peace... by force. I won't forget all those burned and slaughtered Argonian villages. If Queen doesn't know about this or how privateers operate, then how she could be a good empress?

You yourself claimed that the VH would still have cells within AD. Is it so hard to see how the wrong sort of person was pulling the strings to have certain elements undermine the legit AD war efforts, namely to destabilize the Shadowfenn via the skin robber shenanigans. The Argonians support a war against AD, after all.

Soldiers who invaded Shadowfen didn't look like Veiled Heritance. Main Skin-Stealer was a Khajiit, so it doesn't look like Heritance discriminating other two races of the dominion. Argonians support war against AD, but they don't burn Valenwood trees, or slaughter villagers in their homes. Maybe it's not Ayreen who commands Dominion then, looks everything she actually does is talking about peace, instead of acting.

My take on it it's simply inconsistent with the AD story line and another example of rushed and clumsy designing in a game that was clearly released too early. (anyone who played the game in 2014 is likely to agree)

Trying to play it off as VH messing around/an operation gone rogue is merely an attempt to make ends meet. But honestly, how can anyone take that hillarious caricature seriously? That bosmeri soldier screeching in a feeding frenzy "i will devour all your babies!!21!" or somesuch? Give me a break.

Well, good or bad the story is still story and we can't argue with it. Invasion like this needs months of preparation, many funds and an army. It's hard to believe that queen didn't know anything about it. We can speculate that it was part of the dark plan of Veiled Heritance all along, but again it's just speculation and cannot be proven. There was not enough racism, supremacism and necromancy to remind about VH, there were no references to it or to the Veiled Queen. My point is that Aldmeri Dominion or other two alliances cannot be considered as "good guys", because there is NEVER good side in war IRL or in The Elder Scrolls universe. Orrery says nothing about Dominion, only about Ayreen. Also we don't know what Ayleids considered as "pure heart". And It's hard to find somebody else as kind as Ayreen If she dies during the war. I chose EP, because I like them, I fight for them and I'm proud of it, but I would easily find some of their sins. Fight for your alliance that's all.

I can and i will. Frankly, im offended that im expected to discuss the oldest, most profoundly important and singlemost advanced race of Tamriel on the basis of crude Kindergarten level story telling like let us have them kick over some eggs.

Not happening. Shadowfenn needs to be re-written.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Daggerfall Covenant

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The morally bankrupt are bound to be burned by a good deed. Humans stood once again exposed.

An easy victory for the Dominion over those who cant help but eternally disappoint.

"Morally bankrupt". You mean the altmer?

At this point your straight up not making sense, so I guess there it is.

I hope the altmer are really hurt come TES 6. So many fanboys try to justify they're actions, but I really just wanna see you people cry.

(And once again, bud, Dominion crumbles first. And is then screwed by the Numidium. LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE.)

Wishful thinking. Some just know better than to be deliberately obtuse and collect froth in the face.

Also, I wouldnt count on any future Dominion setbacks or losses. From a perspective of good and balanced storytelling its time for a turn of the state of Tamriel.
The continent has seen a period of misrule under human occupation, with the mer being displaced to the fringes of affairs. We can expect Dominion influence to continually rise. Even more so since Altmer and Bosmer are the sole remaining major elven presence. Falmer, Ayleiides, Dwemer are dead/no more. Dunmer reduced to nothing. Should the Dominion vanish what else would remain for humans to do other then to check if theres somewhere an orc city left standing? Btw, as a Breton I would be cheering for the mer, else the Nord might remember their elven blood.
Therefore the Dominion will have to be maitained as the main adversary to humankind. In that regard its stature will just be boosted by the disappearance of the other mer.

Also also, the Altmer were already dealt the devastating blow you are longing for when a criminal tyrant came barging in on his bartered Dwemer robot, the scum of Tamriel in tow. After that the Altmer know no more fear.

"Criminal Tyrant". BAHAHAHAHAAHAHA, lemme just bottle some of those tears and save some for later.

Once again, I hope they prove you wrong you infatuated twit. But it is useless to talk to a egotistical fan of one of the worst races in Tamriel, shot for shot. I've met people like you before and you'll be the first ones against the war when the revolution comes. (Like anyones going to get that refrence but me.)

As a proud Khajiit player, to hell with the Dominion. To hell with it's first, second, and third incarnations. To hell with a powermad race of instigators and slavers. Now stop quoting me. There is no point continuing to talk to you about this.

Demycilian · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The morally bankrupt are bound to be burned by a good deed. Humans stood once again exposed.

An easy victory for the Dominion over those who cant help but eternally disappoint.

"Morally bankrupt". You mean the altmer?

At this point your straight up not making sense, so I guess there it is.

I hope the altmer are really hurt come TES 6. So many fanboys try to justify they're actions, but I really just wanna see you people cry.

(And once again, bud, Dominion crumbles first. And is then screwed by the Numidium. LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE.)

Wishful thinking. Some just know better than to be deliberately obtuse and collect froth in the face.

Also, I wouldnt count on any future Dominion setbacks or losses. From a perspective of good and balanced storytelling its time for a turn of the state of Tamriel.
The continent has seen a period of misrule under human occupation, with the mer being displaced to the fringes of affairs. We can expect Dominion influence to continually rise. Even more so since Altmer and Bosmer are the sole remaining major elven presence. Falmer, Ayleiides, Dwemer are dead/no more. Dunmer reduced to nothing. Should the Dominion vanish what else would remain for humans to do other then to check if theres somewhere an orc city left standing? Btw, as a Breton I would be cheering for the mer, else the Nord might remember their elven blood.
Therefore the Dominion will have to be maitained as the main adversary to humankind. In that regard its stature will just be boosted by the disappearance of the other mer.

Also also, the Altmer were already dealt the devastating blow you are longing for when a criminal tyrant came barging in on his bartered Dwemer robot, the scum of Tamriel in tow. After that the Altmer know no more fear.

"Criminal Tyrant". BAHAHAHAHAAHAHA, lemme just bottle some of those tears and save some for later.

Once again, I hope they prove you wrong you infatuated twit. But it is useless to talk to a egotistical fan of one of the worst races in Tamriel, shot for shot. I've met people like you before and you'll be the first ones against the war when the revolution comes. (Like anyones going to get that refrence but me.)

As a proud Khajiit player, to hell with the Dominion. To hell with it's first, second, and third incarnations. To hell with a powermad race of instigators and slavers. Now stop quoting me.

Pfff. A revolution crushed by fellow Khajiit, I reckon. Most of all those cats grateful their family reunions will not take up the form of communing with silent graves?

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Daggerfall Covenant

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The difference is , they may be egotistical and pompous, but at least they dont enslave, and pillage their own allies. Actions speak louder than words.

Your going to have to be more specific on that, are you talking about the empire, the covenant, and can you actually point to an instance? Because I dont remember the Covenant, or the imperials enslaving anyone.

I do remember the several instances where humans were inslaved however. By elves.

We are talking about recently. And recently the Bretons and Redguards have absolutely laid WASTE to wrothgar, on several occasions.And recently, even if slavery was made illegal by the pact argonians are still shoved into being indentured servants and in some places the slave trade thrives even with the pact, who just turns a blind eye. As for the elves you speak of, there are two instances, the Ayleids, which also enslaved lesser elves, and the snow elves who only did this because humans were literally trying to wipe them out and stealing their land.

Firstly, I'm not arguing for the pact. I dont care about the pact. To hell with the pact, the red year cannot possibly come soon enough.

Secondly. And I'ma state this real plain here.

Elves are consistantly torturers, slavers, war criminals and inhumane pricks. I would go as far as to say they are biologically driven to it, considering even the Altmer feel the need to enslave goblins. And that, is by far the least of they're infractions.

Even when it comes to other elves. The Dwemer tortured and experimented on the Falmer to the point where they turned they're souls white. That is as signifgant as anything because originally, most humanoid souls are black, and takes special, dark magic to trap them. They litterally turned the Falmer from a sentient people, to litteral savages no better inteligence wise than goblins.

As for the Nedes stealing the Falmers land, we dont actually know the details on that. We dont know what started that fight, whether it be the artifact at Sarthaal or encroachment. (As for stealing they're land, they landed there, and after a unknown incident, the nedes went to war.) Even if you would like to argue it was an invasion, I sevearly doubt the men of the merethic era would have gone to war had they're people not been slaughtered.

We also have an entirely seperate instance of this in the Left Hand elves who after living with the redguards for years, suddenly turned on them. To the point where the war required the Hoonding, which shattered ancient Yeoukda and sank it.

Now, the Altmer do this here, and in the fourth era, who's manifesto among they're own ranks is control and the purges of they're own allies. (Bosmer purges which people are killed in, for proof of that see the Bosmer's backstory in the quest 'a knife in the dark'.)

Compared to all that, across history, across racial lines....the Bretons and Redguards (Who the orcs also invaded, so it's not like there isn't blame on both sides here) are reletively tame. And considering as far as I know there's no more -big- conflict after the second era.

Joy_Division · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

EP.

Milkdrinking AD elves are too racist and arrogant to dare allow human races to have any influence on their lives.

The collaborationist Tamriel traitors of the DC openly wish to restore the dynasty borne from the Akaviri murderers who *** and pillaged the Nords, Dunner, and Argonians.

Edit: The poll colors don't match and are driving me nuts!

KochDerDamonen · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

I mean, in the AD the Altmer are manipulating the other two into working with them. The EP was kinda sorta together because of the Akiviri invasion so they kinda stuck together but they're not really friends. The DC is... I'm not sure, it seems like they were like "hey guys, the uhm, everyone else is like making military pacts"

SFDB · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

Every time I return to this thread I hear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx32b5igLwA

Jade1986 · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The difference is , they may be egotistical and pompous, but at least they dont enslave, and pillage their own allies. Actions speak louder than words.

Your going to have to be more specific on that, are you talking about the empire, the covenant, and can you actually point to an instance? Because I dont remember the Covenant, or the imperials enslaving anyone.

I do remember the several instances where humans were inslaved however. By elves.

We are talking about recently. And recently the Bretons and Redguards have absolutely laid WASTE to wrothgar, on several occasions.And recently, even if slavery was made illegal by the pact argonians are still shoved into being indentured servants and in some places the slave trade thrives even with the pact, who just turns a blind eye. As for the elves you speak of, there are two instances, the Ayleids, which also enslaved lesser elves, and the snow elves who only did this because humans were literally trying to wipe them out and stealing their land.

Firstly, I'm not arguing for the pact. I dont care about the pact. To hell with the pact, the red year cannot possibly come soon enough.

Secondly. And I'ma state this real plain here.

Elves are consistantly torturers, slavers, war criminals and inhumane pricks. I would go as far as to say they are biologically driven to it, considering even the Altmer feel the need to enslave goblins. And that, is by far the least of they're infractions.

Even when it comes to other elves. The Dwemer tortured and experimented on the Falmer to the point where they turned they're souls white. That is as signifgant as anything because originally, most humanoid souls are black, and takes special, dark magic to trap them. They litterally turned the Falmer from a sentient people, to litteral savages no better inteligence wise than goblins.

As for the Nedes stealing the Falmers land, we dont actually know the details on that. We dont know what started that fight, whether it be the artifact at Sarthaal or encroachment. (As for stealing they're land, they landed there, and after a unknown incident, the nedes went to war.) Even if you would like to argue it was an invasion, I sevearly doubt the men of the merethic era would have gone to war had they're people not been slaughtered.

We also have an entirely seperate instance of this in the Left Hand elves who after living with the redguards for years, suddenly turned on them. To the point where the war required the Hoonding, which shattered ancient Yeoukda and sank it.

Now, the Altmer do this here, and in the fourth era, who's manifesto among they're own ranks is control and the purges of they're own allies. (Bosmer purges which people are killed in, for proof of that see the Bosmer's backstory in the quest 'a knife in the dark'.)

Compared to all that, across history, across racial lines....the Bretons and Redguards (Who the orcs also invaded, so it's not like there isn't blame on both sides here) are reletively tame. And considering as far as I know there's no more -big- conflict after the second era.

You seriously just ignored the word recently. I only gave you an example because you -asked- for one, but again, we are talking recently, and recently the DC and EP are beyond messed. Also, the altmer / bosmer =/= the dwemer. COMPLETELY different, the race of men have done countless awful things in the past as well, so seriously, dont act like they are all holier than thou.

But back to RECENTLY, yeah, the AD are far less evil than the other two.

Kozato · November 2017

"my faction"
No surprise the poll is a near perfect balance of the three

Alchemical · November 2017

Ebonheart Pact

I don't really hate DC or anything, but Shadowfen cemented in my head the AD are scum and need to be purged with the utmost violence.

INHUMANENATION · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

AD Wins ultimately

Curragraigue · November 2017

Tiber Septim because he wins and writes the history

eirinnpryderi · November 2017

Aldmeri Dominion

AD, I might be EP but I played thru the stories of the 3 factions and Ayrenn is the most noble leader of the 3, EP leader is kinda neutral and King Emeric of DC its the worst

Inklings · November 2017

Daggerfall Covenant

Any one else triggered over the fact DF is red and EP is blue in the poll?

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Daggerfall Covenant

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

The Dominion can never be considered the good guys after the genocide they enacted at the Hatching Pools in Shadowfen.

Nonsense. That alchemist was going rogue and not acting under Ayrenns/AD orders or intentions. Just as it wasnt that Bosmeri fellows order to likethe taste of Argonian eggs a tad too much.

There are plenty of cues telling a tale of the state of morale and how half the expedition force was on the brink of mutiny.

Yet they are still part of the faction. You can't sweep that under the rug in the same way you can't sweep EPs slavers in the other faction zones under the rug. We are talking about the factions in their entirety not just what the leaders wants.

Technically speaking its no longer part of the Dominion, seeing how that expedition went rogue. It is no longer permissable to judge the faction by its example.

This.
People always seem to forget that even that quest isnt all that one-sided. For example, we meet a khajiit soldier who didnt want to follow Ruuvitar's orders (and she is telling the truth, you can find notes about her).
Of course, what Ruuvitar did is a war crime. And for many people its "one bad apple spoils the bunch" type of deal, but in TES lore, pretty much all factions are involved in something bad. For example, we meet a lot of power-hungry Imperials who would bargain with daedra and do horrible things... But that doesnt mean that all Imperials are bad. There's even an Argonian villain, we meet him during Rivenspire questline. Does that mean that all of them are evil? I dont think so.

Reezal-Jul = Montclair House

Ruvitaar = Aldmeri Dominion

You won't tell me that soldiers called "Dominion soldiers" aren't figting for the dominion. They knew Ruuvitar's plans and they didn't protested. I would say that this khajiit was just other than the rest of the Dominon. There was no Ruvitaar at Hatching pools, there was Dominion army making sure no argonian will hatch. You could hear bosmer soldier there questioning general's orders to slaughter innocents, but If there were many like him, why they didn't oppose? He just said it was wrong, but he did nothing to prevent that. Yeah, not all imperials are bad, rebels fighting with Imperial Legion are good, but there were no Dominion rebels in Shadowfen, only soldiers following their orders. They are responsible for everything they did and trying to do.

I dont think the cat was an outlying opinion. Questing through the camps will bring you upon diaries or letters of sorts in which Altmer soldiers express their concerns and disgust about whats happening and how they want to return home asap. Its been more than two years since i did the Shadowfenn, so details are a bit dim. Also, i doubt a soldier of the line would have know what was actually happening.
The point being how the quests provide ample evidence to lead us to assume there isnt much support for the AD raid into Shadowfenn. If you care to look at it, that is.

Btw, I dont remember any such evidence of disapproval about the necromantic stunt of DC in EP or the Dunmer slavers fretting about those poor, poor Bretons they are capturing. Or the Rowada slaughtering civilians in Auridon. Little regret among the DC Orcs that do some horrible things to the dark elves of Deshaan to gain favour with good Kurog, iirc. And so on.

Look to your own sins.

Oh yeah, I remember those dunmeri slavers from house Telvanni who don't belong to Ebonheart Pact. And If Aldmeri soldiers of the line don't realise that Argonian they just killed was an unarmed keeper from hatching pools and those exploding eggs were carrying little argonians, then I wouldn't call them good. Maybe Dominion is truly using mindless army blindly following orders. If they would revolt against generals, Ayreen would aprove this right? So why they didn't? Because they are evil or the queen is evil. Few necromancers don't equal attempt to destroy whole race. People who say that Aldmeri Dominion is only "good" faction are using an argument about Ayreen and the Orrery, but half of Altmeri population are racists and supremacists even If they don't embrace it in public in fear of being arrested. Queen's vision from the Orrery wouldn't come true with their ideology. She is just naive girl who think that it's ok to forget about her duties as princess by travelling across Tamriel and then just come back and take her brother's right to rule, because she got bored.

But surely you dont think that only military personell is being killed during the raids that take place all over Tamriel? That children and women are spared? Not sure why some are so concerned by the hatching pools of Shadowfenn.

Plus, im having a hard time remembering ingame examples of this alleged wide spread Altmer racism in ESO. To me the high elven lore suggests them to be mostly isolationists/traditionalists. Tho I do remember how the oppressed of DC and EP seek refuge with the Dominion. Despite its many faults AD is still the most civilized of all alliances, and those Argonian and Orc refugees seem to know it. Colour me surprised.

There is no question which alliance is mostly good aligned.

Do you think that Veiled Heritance was completely destroyed only because vestige killed their leaders? Do you remember achievement called "Peacemaker"? To get him you need to experience Bosmer arguing with Altmer. The High Elf said that Wood Elfs should bow to their Altmeri leaders and they would be all dead If not for Altmers. Ideology where one race should live under someone's boot is not traditionalism, it's racism. That Altmer wasn't from Veiled Heritance, which means there are many like him up there in Summerset Isles. Argonian "refugees" just don't want to fight side by side with their former slavers. Ebonheart Pact is military alliance forged by war to save Tamriel from Akaviri. Aldmeri Dominion is alliance which gives Altmers opportunity to rule over other races of Tamriel. Imagine Aldmeri Dominion without Queen Ayreen. There aren't many High Elfs considering themselves equal with Khajiits and Bosmers. If you aren't concerned about Dominion killing little Argonians at Hatching Pools without a fight, just slaughtering them then I don't think that you are suppose to call anyone "good guys". There is no question that Aldmeri Dominion is the most evil alliance.

Two mer bickering over who owes what to whom for whatever military interventionism is a far cry from racist displays. Mostly because its lacking any display of racial slander or downtalking? More like one party being mindful that there is reason to be grateful and the other being the usual complicated Bosmer in denial and a pain in the *cupcake*.
To me this all seems more like an unfounded stereotype which has taken root because its easier to blurt nonsense in concert and because some folks are butthurt over Skyrim/Talos cultists getting a proper kick in the nuts.

We do not know of any VH significance after Estre has been dealt with and we dont know how the majority of Altmer feel about the cats and woodelves. My guess is they will, out of habit, act like they are the most important feature of Nirn. As they should. Because they are. And be otherwise not hostile or overly harmful in intend. In fact, there is the Reapers March questline that implies the positive impact of Bosmer and especially cats on the high elves and how it makes them more appreciative and outwardlooking.

The AD forces werent really slaughtering little Argonians. There were eggs and i doubt anyone had an idea what was happening. Personally, I thought it was a poor story and a crude and confuddling attempt to make the Dominion appear particularly ghastly. For no real reason.

Lets bash some eggs.

Firstly, I love how this poster embodies every horrible aspect of this race of supremicst nutjobs.

Also. The best thing on nirn? OBJECTIVELY INCORRECT. That'd be the Imperials, who keep the damn door to hell shut, thanks very much. And had been doing so, and will do so, far after the second era is over.

The Dominion questlines have a pattern following them. Certain regions have a difficulty with the -byproducts of the heritance-, a elven supremacy movement, such as the prince geting lich-ified, and other things, and then the Dominion offers a choice: We can help you. But then we get to -own- you.

The Dominion are consistant profiteers off others misery. It is the only reason they span as far as they do. The elves are a race of worthless instigators who constantly take they're arrogance to be a calling to re-create they're golden age. But did the litteral divine powers themselves choose them to keep the door to Oblivion shut, with the Dragonfires? No. Did they do overmuch aside from constantly instigate? Not particularly.

Meanwhile, the Bosmer, and the far more badass Khajiit, who are so adept at dealing with adversity by this point they survived one of the deadliest plagues in history WHILE A WAR WAS GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME, The colovian invasion (While they did get help from the Altmer, I despute that it was A, anything other than a political move on the altmers part, B that they couldn't have got by without it.), bonded to them by a sense of owing them, and the fact that they dont have anymore landlocked allies.

Fun fact: If I remember correctly, the Dominion dissolves first, because the real backbone of the Dominion, the Bosmer, being the landlocked bullwark against most of the threats from the war, have they're King die, and the hiers fight over the throne enough to cause rampant instability.

Worthless. Elves.

Oh, noone is being owned by the high elves. Such concepts fit the Imperial mindset first and foremost. And the Altmer motives to save the cats may fall victim to individual bias and blatant racism, I suppose.

However, the Khajiit conscience and sense of honour did lead them to stand by the ONLY people to lift a finger when they were down and dying. Wouldnt it have been a terrible tragedy had the Altmer done as all the sorry rest did and allow for the "badass" Khajiit to go into the night and disappear?

Not it does not.

In fact the imperials have culturally the least reason to enslave others and the altmer have culturally the most, given in the merethic era it was rampant. Much like the covenant, all hey really want is peace and trade. Projection, like so many high elven fanboys.

And yes, it would have. But then again, they survived plague, and war, at the same time. They didn't need a bunch of golden idiots to render aid so they could drag them into a war.

At the very least, dont try to paint these possessive, overegotistical psyco's as saviors. They're quite the opposite.

The difference is , they may be egotistical and pompous, but at least they dont enslave, and pillage their own allies. Actions speak louder than words.

Your going to have to be more specific on that, are you talking about the empire, the covenant, and can you actually point to an instance? Because I dont remember the Covenant, or the imperials enslaving anyone.

I do remember the several instances where humans were inslaved however. By elves.

We are talking about recently. And recently the Bretons and Redguards have absolutely laid WASTE to wrothgar, on several occasions.And recently, even if slavery was made illegal by the pact argonians are still shoved into being indentured servants and in some places the slave trade thrives even with the pact, who just turns a blind eye. As for the elves you speak of, there are two instances, the Ayleids, which also enslaved lesser elves, and the snow elves who only did this because humans were literally trying to wipe them out and stealing their land.

Firstly, I'm not arguing for the pact. I dont care about the pact. To hell with the pact, the red year cannot possibly come soon enough.

Secondly. And I'ma state this real plain here.

Elves are consistantly torturers, slavers, war criminals and inhumane pricks. I would go as far as to say they are biologically driven to it, considering even the Altmer feel the need to enslave goblins. And that, is by far the least of they're infractions.

Even when it comes to other elves. The Dwemer tortured and experimented on the Falmer to the point where they turned they're souls white. That is as signifgant as anything because originally, most humanoid souls are black, and takes special, dark magic to trap them. They litterally turned the Falmer from a sentient people, to litteral savages no better inteligence wise than goblins.

As for the Nedes stealing the Falmers land, we dont actually know the details on that. We dont know what started that fight, whether it be the artifact at Sarthaal or encroachment. (As for stealing they're land, they landed there, and after a unknown incident, the nedes went to war.) Even if you would like to argue it was an invasion, I sevearly doubt the men of the merethic era would have gone to war had they're people not been slaughtered.

We also have an entirely seperate instance of this in the Left Hand elves who after living with the redguards for years, suddenly turned on them. To the point where the war required the Hoonding, which shattered ancient Yeoukda and sank it.

Now, the Altmer do this here, and in the fourth era, who's manifesto among they're own ranks is control and the purges of they're own allies. (Bosmer purges which people are killed in, for proof of that see the Bosmer's backstory in the quest 'a knife in the dark'.)

Compared to all that, across history, across racial lines....the Bretons and Redguards (Who the orcs also invaded, so it's not like there isn't blame on both sides here) are reletively tame. And considering as far as I know there's no more -big- conflict after the second era.

You seriously just ignored the word recently. I only gave you an example because you -asked- for one, but again, we are talking recently, and recently the DC and EP are beyond messed. Also, the altmer / bosmer =/= the dwemer. COMPLETELY different, the race of men have done countless awful things in the past as well, so seriously, dont act like they are all holier than thou.

But back to RECENTLY, yeah, the AD are far less evil than the other two.

Not particularly.

AD let a rogue element kill argonian children, kill civilians, cause rampant civil unrest, tried to invade the Alik'r. If I really want to go ahed and find more infractions I likely could including the Khajiiti pirates they used to sack other villages.

EP went ahed and bombed the *** out of a border village then raised the entire village to use as siege equitment.

DC, pillaged and burnt the town of Bleak Rock to the ground, along with some villages in Stonefalls.

Compared to the other two, who include insurgency, necromancy, the killing of unborn children, regular pillaging and one attempted sexual assault isn't exactly the litteral worst. It's sitll pretty damn bad and indefenseable, but compared to unborn child killing? Ehhhh.

You want to paint AD as way above the other two because they're oh so lovey dovey? Bull.

Ayrenn is the only good person in the Dominion. Everyone else is out for themselves. Everyone else has tried multiple times with drastic measures including the summoning of daedra, to stop they're involvement in the war. The altmer are being thrown into this war against they're will, so we cant even claim Ayrenn is good, considering she's a warmonger throwing her peoples lives away for her own personal crusade.

If you want to argue we are all consistanly horrible, fine. I still put fourth that DC is the most idelologically stable and willing to help the people. You want to argue AD's merit on actions? They are just as bad, if not worse. Unborn children. If you can explain that away, you are an apologist, and a good one.

But I dont bloody buy it.