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Difficulty Mementos: a proposal
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »What is the difference between OPs idea and merely taking off a few pieces of armor to increase the difficulty?
I think there's a subtle difference. Part of the enjoyment of a 'build' game like ESO is seeing your plan come to life and testing it out in a variety of content. Simply removing bits of armour is never going to be as fulfilling, even if the effect is similar.
In the context of this thread the plan is to increase the difficulty so it would be very effective to remove some armor to meet this need. Instead you are suggesting build to the max to make the content easier but ask Zos to make it more difficult.
I guess the question is where does one want to find their fun. Playing the game with a challenge or getting the best gear possible and feel strong so you can feel a little challenge killing some mobs.
I can tell you I when I am in combat my gear is not on my mind.
Searching for a challenge and obtaining good gear doesn't necessarily exclude each other. Sure it would be easier to just undress but isn't the whole game designed around your builds, feeling different with different builds? If you exclude builds from this game, it will come closer to feel like a action shooter instead of a rpg.
Exactly my point. Thx for explaining it so well.
Yes, the game is designed around us coming up with builds that suite the needs for what we are doing.
For PvP we generally, well, decent players, have a different build than when we are doing a vet trial HM run.
What I am suggesting is doing the same for when we want to run overland content and have a little more challenge than when we are in our full raid gear.
As you so aptly pointed out, this would be the easier to have this different build for overland to obtain the main point of this thread.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What is the difference between OPs idea and merely taking off a few pieces of armor to increase the difficulty?
Seems so much easier to do so and it both reduces the damage one does and increases the damage one receives. Exactly what is being discussed.
You dont get more gold or more loot or more exp from doing that.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is the difference between OPs idea and merely taking off a few pieces of armor to increase the difficulty?
Seems so much easier to do so and it both reduces the damage one does and increases the damage one receives. Exactly what is being discussed.
You dont get more gold or more loot or more exp from doing that.
Yea, that does make it even less likely though. Wanting Zos to create a system that nerfs your character and improves loot or some other sort of drop is probably considerably less likely that Zos creating a system to nerf your character in overland content.
Just thinking realistically, but everyone has the right to dream.1 -
theslynx✭✭✭Exactly my point. Thx for explaining it so well.
Yes, the game is designed around us coming up with builds that suite the needs for what we are doing.
...
Not the same at all. A 'build' that's designed to work inefficiently is not particularly interesting to design or implement. It's far easier to design poorly, and less engaging when it 'works.' (Like the old Dawkins quote: 'However many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of being dead.') The presence of challenges (in this case, achievements, cosmetic items) that encourage people to push into somewhat harder content with well-planned builds offers more rewards than just running around half-naked or in some motley assortment of whatever rags you happened by. It asks the player to be involved in both the strategy and tactics of moment-to-moment gameplay. It maintains a sense of progression throughout the content that players presumably enjoy well enough to keep playing. Finally, it doesn't ask you to keep multiple gear set-ups in already cramped inventories.Just thinking realistically, but everyone has the right to dream.
Before housing was announced, it was considered unrealistic fancy of role-players. People dismissed early hopes that one day ESO would revisit Vvardenfell. If someone had predicted last month that ESO was going to give Morrowind owners a free insect mount out of the blue, you can be sure people would have suggested they were nuts.
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Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »I think touching the basic quests is ridiculous and hurtful to a majority of the player base.
These forums are a minority. I am sure you have not completed all the in-game achievements, very few have. You want a challenge, go for that or delete all your characters and start from scratch with no help from friends.
Again someone who don't understand the purpose of a challenge ...
Let's took dungeon as exemple , do you remember WGT and ICP dungeons at their release ? They was ( and they still ) beautiful ! I remember that no one wanted to try these dungeon with me cause i was a noob, so i started watching some build ( yeah cause the eso Tutorial don't teach you anything unfortunaly except how to light attack/block and heavy attack) and i get good thank to one of the old Yolo wizard build, then i found a group to try WGT ... this was A W E S O M E... i don't remember how much time this took us to kill the first boss but ... he was so beautiful and the longer the fight was ... the most stressful it was... and once we killed it we was like " YEAH ! we did it", but the best is that this was only the first boss !
What i mean ? When a content is very hard and long, you get this stressful feeling at the 40/30% of the boss life ... and when you kill it you get this awesome feeling of acomplishment, and this is what we want at the end of a Challenge ...
Mutilate your own char to make the content difficulty isn't that fun ... i would prefer the boss to get more health and damage with faster animation by using the memento you are talking about.
Oh no, I do understand a challenge. It is a great challenge to play a broken game.The game is in it's worst state to date across 3 platforms, I know because I play 'em. I would like to see the base game fixed before they blindly run off in another direction yet again and break more stuff.1 -
Nightfall12✭✭✭✭✭Why not just start a guild for people that want bigger challenges and run content with a simple rule. NO GOLD items dungeon runs, or vet mode without purple gear. set the challenges and share them with your guild. BAsiccaly instead of Get Gud..you know Get-bad.Ummm stuff… about stuff…or something.0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nightfall12 wrote: »Why not just start a guild for people that want bigger challenges and run content with a simple rule. NO GOLD items dungeon runs, or vet mode without purple gear. set the challenges and share them with your guild. BAsiccaly instead of Get Gud..you know Get-bad.
it's sad to do this in an MMO just because the whole game is too easy ... what next " put your stuff / cp ofg and only play with equilibrium " ....
We are obbliged to Get-bad for difficulty just because some don't want to get Gud ... there should be a middle where everyone play the way they want using everysingle tool they give us like cp and gear with the choice between more difficulty tier in dungeon and Overland.
What you are saying is the opposite of " If the game is too hard for you , just find a guild to carry you " in answer to someone asking what he can do to complete content because he find it to hard... this don't solve the problem.Edited by Apherius on November 19, 2017 5:29PM0 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭This will never work. Undaunted are for starters a fully dungeon-based group, and the memeto's will be abused by people to troll the dungeon and trial runs as well. So a vet option for overland-content (like a different instance for example) would be a better idea in the end.Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's been a lot of back-and-forth on the forum recently about overland difficulty. Ultimately, no tweak to general difficulty is going to please everyone, so I want to propose the use of Mementos to achieve that effect for individual players. The system would be something like below.
Talk to an Undaunted member to obtain two Mementos. Turning on the Memento provides a buff that lasts 30 minutes (and can be disabled via menus). Upon entering any new area, a text warning pops up, reminding you the buff is active. Additionally, players may not queue for dungeons, PvP, etc. while the Memento is active to avoid problems there.
Two versions of the Memento exist, something like:- Minor Challenge -
e.g., Damage taken +5%, Damage dealt - 5%
- Major Challenge -
e.g., Damage taken +15%, Damage dealt - 15%
The Mementos are separate, meaning a player can toggle neither, one or both at the same time to tailor difficulty per character.
Having Challenges active counts towards achievements for killing enemies in Challenge mode. Completing several achievements earns different titles, access to some unique achievement furnishings at a vendor, and other account-bound cosmetic items (e.g. a pet or mount).
None of this is meant to make overland content arduous. It would merely prolong some fights for players in good gear and remind them to pay a bit more attention. Additionally, it would give new players an idea of what they may need to work on before jumping into tougher group content, helping them adjust to new challenges.
That's it. I'm not claiming that this is a perfect system that ought to be (or should/will be) implemented. I am curious if the various sides of this debate would accept something along these lines and we could get back to fighting over other, more interesting stuff.
The problem with this game's difficulty is it's stupidly erratic. It leaps from brain dead easy to harrowing and aggravating. For example - I just got done running around in the Imperial City Sewers with some stupid flag guy chasing for literally over 30 minutes (getting stunned and grappled every second) until I had enough of the torture and just allowed it (along with the dozens of other various demons) to kill me so as to just end the misery. I literally think it would have kept chasing me for eternity no matter how long I sprinted or how many escape pots I burned trying to get ahead of it. Oh... and I also made the mistake of attacking some Barron guy who I could not even damage and flew around spawning daedra armies at will. Yet I can wipe the floor with the enemies outside so easily its boring and can solo every world boss I have ever encountered in Tamriel with the exception of some gargoyles in Craglorn (and that is just because it's some kind of silly DPS race else they kill the NPC).
So this game goes from being able to mindlessly slaughter everything in your path to having some crazy mob that stuns and grapples every second while doing insane damage and who chases you literally forever if you try to get away. And some flying vampire thing that spews out armies who I could not even damage. And I wasn't even there for that long (I only even went there to craft a shield for my writ lol). So if you want to know why the Imperial City is always empty just go there and you will likely find out. Because I was only there for an hour or so and I quickly learned why.
What this game desperately needs to do is find a balanced middle ground and a competent development team who knows how to provide an adequate challenge that's fun without frustrating the hell out of you in the process.Edited by Jeremy on November 19, 2017 7:10PM1 - Minor Challenge -
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like this idea. Although I think it needs to be harsher, and with their own perks:
Dark Souls Momento: -15% damage done, +15% damage received. XP earned +25%
Doctordarkspawn's tears: -30% damage done, +30% damage received. Gold earned +50%
I'm honored.
Though truth be told, I dont have a problem with this. The only issue I'd see is what happens when players group, but that's probably a simple programing fix. Or generally how you'd instance it, or something like that.
This does not affect anyone not using the momento, and gives those who want difficult overland what they want. Seems like a good enough solution to me.
...However, I cant help that point out that every time someone from the other end of the spectrum proposes anything like this, you all tell them to shut up so I'm just going to revel in the irony of that for a bit.
It really is hard to want to see this succeed when so many proposals have been shot down because 'casuals' made them.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on November 19, 2017 7:32PM0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »I think touching the basic quests is ridiculous and hurtful to a majority of the player base.
These forums are a minority. I am sure you have not completed all the in-game achievements, very few have. You want a challenge, go for that or delete all your characters and start from scratch with no help from friends.
You are really against anything to make more of a challenge, arent you? This wouldnt be forced,i twould be optional.
Yes I am when it will cause problems. It won't go well at all, it never does with ZoS, the result will be an inferior gaming experience. I have my challenges in getting the extra conditions completed on vet trials and PvP the performance is a challenge in itself. They need to fix the existing problems before adding more screwed up script for a minority of the player base, which is this forum.
These need attention first lag, chat, dc's, bugged quests, PvP, loading screens, add-ons, customer service, etc.
When CwC dropped there is a prime example of the incompetence level we all have come to know. It will break the game more. Major issues need to be fixed first, that would be the games performance issues.
You do realize QA, bug fixing and new feature development are different people right? There would be no effect to the fixing of bugs and the like.
Why would you assume that bug fixing and feature development are done by different people? That doesn't really make sense. The engineers who developed the feature are going to fix bugs in the feature.
But regardless, the people clamoring to "stop new development" to fix bugs are chasing unicorns. Never going to happen. Never happens in any product. That's just not the way it works. There will always be a balancing act between new development and bugfix development.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Edited by Strider__Roshin on November 19, 2017 8:50PM0
