We would all like a greater freedom of personalization for our characters. True?

Stania · November 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

This is a fantasy game, you don't need to adhere to those inaccurate and binary concepts, hermaphroditic offspring is just one example of a broad range of genetic abnormalities in reproductive organs that you can look into yourself. I think Apache_Kid is right, that there should be a simple check box for male and female, but it wouldn't preclude having a slider that morphs between the two body builds so you could pick a bone structure in the middle somewhere allowing a more feminine and curvy male or a more masculine and svelte male.

It's fantasy is not a valid reason when there's already a lore and a canon that has stipulated certain conditions for decades. Just because ESO is a fantasy game, doesn't mean we can suddenly put alien spaceships and laser guns. One of these stipulations is the fact that Tamriel's playable races have two sexes, with clear sexual dymorphism.

Yeah, we have Vivec who is intersex but still has the body of a male and is referred as a "he", and argonians would have a "female-phase" and "male-phase" (this subject was addressed only on TES3), they could change from one sex to another nothing else or in between.

Now on the hermaphrodite subject, since you're basing on human biology to justify that proposal:

We are a sexually dichotomic species, 99% of the humans are not intersex, and more than 70% of the intersex people identify themselves as either male or female, because they lean more towards one sex than another. As you said, there's genetic abnormalities, and all these abnormalities present feminine and/or masculine traits. There's no other sex chromosomes besides x and y in humans, including those with disorders like Turner Syndrome or Gonadal Disgenesys.

SelfTherapy · November 2017

I just want black hair for my highelf.

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2017

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I just want black hair for my highelf.

I definitely agree with this, considering there is at least one npc that I recall with this feature. I wanted an Altmer DK with black hair. I don't even remember why, I just thought it would be cool.

SelfTherapy · November 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I just want black hair for my highelf.

I definitely agree with this, considering there is at least one npc that I recall with this feature. I wanted an Altmer DK with black hair. I don't even remember why, I just thought it would be cool.

I've seen another highelf I just can't find pics

SilverIce58 · November 2017

SelfTherapy wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I just want black hair for my highelf.

I definitely agree with this, considering there is at least one npc that I recall with this feature. I wanted an Altmer DK with black hair. I don't even remember why, I just thought it would be cool.

I've seen another highelf I just can't find pics

I love how black hair appears blue in the light. Every race should have more hair colors.

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2017

SelfTherapy wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SelfTherapy wrote: »

I just want black hair for my highelf.

I definitely agree with this, considering there is at least one npc that I recall with this feature. I wanted an Altmer DK with black hair. I don't even remember why, I just thought it would be cool.

I've seen another highelf I just can't find pics

I seem to recall a black-haired Altmer male soldier in Auridon. I didn't recollect seeing her but that's cool. I thought there were more than one out there. I'll be honest it has been a long time since I ran through the full story. While I've done it on like 3 or 4 characters I've lost a bit of interest in running it on all the others.

radiostar · November 2017

I sure would like that guy's haircut for one of my ladies. I think the Hew's Bane guild leader has it.

Integral1900 · November 2017

Eso is more open minded than most mmo type games, yes it would be nice for items not to be gender and race locked but we don’t know if that will complicate things for ZOS, legalities in entertainment can be a total mine field. let’s face it we all know why there are no kids in tamriel if we are being honest

Yes I would love to be able to bulk up the physique on the female charecters, as far as sexual diamorphisum goes this game is just as bad as every other one, ie guys are litteraly ten times the max build of a female and all that nonsense. In my job you work with plenty of ladies that move like dancers but are perfectly capable of bending rebar with their bare hands. There are more of them than you think. But games today are in many ways stuck in a past that’s not theirs, blindly following the media around, there were games twenty years ago that were better at it.

But it’s never going to happen, sorry to be a kill joy but the gaming industry has decided that things must be compartmentalised, you hate that you can’t use beards, I hate that all girls must be skinny and weak while all guys can be ludicrously enormous gorillas... it’s frustrating but that’s just the way it is. Just look at skyrim, the charecter creator was literally one of the first thing that got modded.

Mettaricana · November 2017

I want only one thing at this moment

1 zeira of the thieves guild jas a male haircut that we cannot wear on female characters despite it being on a female character fox this.

2 males all look wrinkled and hairy even on youngest they have aged looks of mid 30's they should allow softer smoother skin. Also even when no facial hair selected they still have stuble and shadow.

3 males have septum rings or nose rings bull rings etc females cannot wear them. There is no excuse for this dumb option not to be unisex.

4 chest arm and leg hair should be a seperate slider with none as an option.

5 all eye lashes should be unisex

6 all male and female haircuts should be unisex

7 males have no hip or butt slider like its there but doesnt actually change anything at all like milimeter size difference.

8 hands can we fix hands everyone male or female has hands like a 70 year old sweatshop worker.

SilverIce58 · November 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

I want only one thing at this moment

1 zeira of the thieves guild jas a male haircut that we cannot wear on female characters despite it being on a female character fox this.

2 males all look wrinkled and hairy even on youngest they have aged looks of mid 30's they should allow softer smoother skin. Also even when no facial hair selected they still have stuble and shadow.

3 males have septum rings or nose rings bull rings etc females cannot wear them. There is no excuse for this dumb option not to be unisex.

4 chest arm and leg hair should be a seperate slider with none as an option.

5 all eye lashes should be unisex

6 all male and female haircuts should be unisex

7 males have no hip or butt slider like its there but doesnt actually change anything at all like milimeter size difference.

8 hands can we fix hands everyone male or female has hands like a 70 year old sweatshop worker.

that's not one, that's eight. Also, number 7? There's a huge difference between the butt slider all the way to the right and all the way to the left. Maybe you just don't have an eye for it.

Mettaricana · November 2017

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

I want only one thing at this moment

1 zeira of the thieves guild jas a male haircut that we cannot wear on female characters despite it being on a female character fox this.

2 males all look wrinkled and hairy even on youngest they have aged looks of mid 30's they should allow softer smoother skin. Also even when no facial hair selected they still have stuble and shadow.

3 males have septum rings or nose rings bull rings etc females cannot wear them. There is no excuse for this dumb option not to be unisex.

4 chest arm and leg hair should be a seperate slider with none as an option.

5 all eye lashes should be unisex

6 all male and female haircuts should be unisex

7 males have no hip or butt slider like its there but doesnt actually change anything at all like milimeter size difference.

8 hands can we fix hands everyone male or female has hands like a 70 year old sweatshop worker.

that's not one, that's eight. Also, number 7? There's a huge difference between the butt slider all the way to the right and all the way to the left. Maybe you just don't have an eye for it.

On females the slider does something on male doesnt do anything it barely moves butt or hips at all makes all the males look severly disproportionate

kargen27 · November 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zorvan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Does anyone else feel triggered that there are only two gender options at character creation? Ugh. Reinforcing the gender binary smh. #rejectthepatriarchy.

It would be cool if character creation went beyond the current two binary gender options. Perhaps a movement in that direction would allow movement in the direction of the OP's idea to unlock all cosmetic options for all characters.

There's no nudity in this game, so whatever your character has between their legs is up to you.

#thereareonly2gendersand4lights

You're talking about sex. To the OP's point, it would be awesome if aesthetic options were available to all characters regardless of who they are. Moving beyond the two binary options that are currently in the game would support that goal.

all that would need to be done is not restrict cosmetics

Yeah, that's the simplest fix. It would still be cool to get more customization that moves beyond gender binary that currently exists.

Like what? You keep saying this, but you don't provide explicit examples of what kinds of "customization that moves beyond gender binary". Aside from taking the restrictions off of jewelry and cosmetics (which some cosmetics have to be male/female only bc of limitations with character models), I literally can't imagine what else there is.

Read post #53. I already mentioned gender pronouns. Maybe you didn't read that post?

I did read it, but the characters in the game probably aren't worried about someone using the wrong gender pronoun since there's probably potions/magic that can switch gender at will.

You're literally sticking your real-world politics into a game that has no need for them. You could say "it's a fantasy world" but this "fantasy world" already has established rules, and established lore.

"Read-world politics?" You are the one who appears to be heading in that direction. You seem to care a lot about keeping the male/female gender binary in character creation, but why? There is TES lore that suggests it's not that simple:

Read lore about Vivec and Argonians.

What harm is there in me suggesting that it would 1) be cool and 2) give more options (see: dialogue example) if the game moved beyond the current gender binary? That's not pushing "real-world politics" nor does it violate any "established lore."

You're grasping at nothing, and for what purpose?

So the problem seems to be our choices are male/female and he/she.

Male/female/??/??/??

Could you please fill in the question marks to provide samples of what you are wanting?

SilverIce58 · November 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

I want only one thing at this moment

1 zeira of the thieves guild jas a male haircut that we cannot wear on female characters despite it being on a female character fox this.

2 males all look wrinkled and hairy even on youngest they have aged looks of mid 30's they should allow softer smoother skin. Also even when no facial hair selected they still have stuble and shadow.

3 males have septum rings or nose rings bull rings etc females cannot wear them. There is no excuse for this dumb option not to be unisex.

4 chest arm and leg hair should be a seperate slider with none as an option.

5 all eye lashes should be unisex

6 all male and female haircuts should be unisex

7 males have no hip or butt slider like its there but doesnt actually change anything at all like milimeter size difference.

8 hands can we fix hands everyone male or female has hands like a 70 year old sweatshop worker.

that's not one, that's eight. Also, number 7? There's a huge difference between the butt slider all the way to the right and all the way to the left. Maybe you just don't have an eye for it.

On females the slider does something on male doesnt do anything it barely moves butt or hips at all makes all the males look severly disproportionate

I will agree with you on the hips, since you can make it so that the male's hips are the smallest part, widthwise, about him, and that does look really, really weird.

GrumpyDuckling · November 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zorvan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Does anyone else feel triggered that there are only two gender options at character creation? Ugh. Reinforcing the gender binary smh. #rejectthepatriarchy.

It would be cool if character creation went beyond the current two binary gender options. Perhaps a movement in that direction would allow movement in the direction of the OP's idea to unlock all cosmetic options for all characters.

There's no nudity in this game, so whatever your character has between their legs is up to you.

#thereareonly2gendersand4lights

You're talking about sex. To the OP's point, it would be awesome if aesthetic options were available to all characters regardless of who they are. Moving beyond the two binary options that are currently in the game would support that goal.

all that would need to be done is not restrict cosmetics

Yeah, that's the simplest fix. It would still be cool to get more customization that moves beyond gender binary that currently exists.

Like what? You keep saying this, but you don't provide explicit examples of what kinds of "customization that moves beyond gender binary". Aside from taking the restrictions off of jewelry and cosmetics (which some cosmetics have to be male/female only bc of limitations with character models), I literally can't imagine what else there is.

Read post #53. I already mentioned gender pronouns. Maybe you didn't read that post?

I did read it, but the characters in the game probably aren't worried about someone using the wrong gender pronoun since there's probably potions/magic that can switch gender at will.

You're literally sticking your real-world politics into a game that has no need for them. You could say "it's a fantasy world" but this "fantasy world" already has established rules, and established lore.

"Read-world politics?" You are the one who appears to be heading in that direction. You seem to care a lot about keeping the male/female gender binary in character creation, but why? There is TES lore that suggests it's not that simple:

Read lore about Vivec and Argonians.

What harm is there in me suggesting that it would 1) be cool and 2) give more options (see: dialogue example) if the game moved beyond the current gender binary? That's not pushing "real-world politics" nor does it violate any "established lore."

You're grasping at nothing, and for what purpose?

So the problem seems to be our choices are male/female and he/she.

Male/female/??/??/??

Could you please fill in the question marks to provide samples of what you are wanting?

Yes, I like the idea of not forcing players to choose between male/female and he/she. It would be awesome if the player had more options to select how they are referred to in-game.

The following list is not complete, as there are many more options that would be great to have, but since you're asking, here is a rough draft of ideas for what could be offered to players as choices, and which also moves beyond thinking about characters in gender terms (if a player so chooses):

- He
- She
- They
- (Races) Argonian, Bosmer, etc.
- (Titles) Think about any of the titles that already exist in the game as options (ex: Fable allows you to select what you are called, so NPC dialogue changes to match your selected title)
- Word bank (this idea if pulled from some sports video games, which have long lists of "banked" names that the announcers pronounce in-game, and ESO could provide the same option for players to select what they want to be called - and if that list contains some lore-based names that would be A LOT of fun)

This a simplistic, rough draft of a list which would benefit from more time, effort, and thought put into it. But with an approach that offers options like those listed above, players wouldn't be forced into selecting a gender. If a player wants to be referred to as he/she, then they can still select that option. If they want to be called something else, then they could choose something that isn't he/she. More options during character creation would be nice for all of us.

Jarryzzt · November 2017

1. I would like to know if there are any regulatory issues here.

In other words, if you sell or market a software product in country A, you fall under regulations of country A, which may be very different from regulations of country B (where you also do business). Where one sees this somewhat frequently - with video games - is things like: we've excluded content X from localization for country Y; or, an actual example, an airplane deathmatch game (World of Warplanes) did not, at least at one point, put pilots into the cockpits of the in-game aircraft to get around the "blood-violence" ratings in EU countries (apparently, blowing up airplanes is fine per se, however blowing up airplanes with clearly visible people inside is somehow frowned upon).

How might this affect the OP's issue? Well, it might not. Certainly I can't imagine there is an EU law that applies here - but on the other hand, maybe some EU members, I don't know. I do know that Russia, and this game does appear to have some Russian subs, had not too long ago passed a law banning "promoting homosexuality" (or whatever the legal phrasing is). Irrespective of whether one disagrees or agrees with the law, and one can probably find people on both sides of the issue even on these very forums, that the law exists might mean that ZOS wants to keep onsides with respect to it. I underscore that this is speculation on my part, but here is an example of how a legal or regulatory issue might affect something as innocuous as in-game character model features. Sometimes.

2. I also have no idea how easy or difficult some of the changes proposed in this thread would be to implement from a technical standpoint. It's simple - if a change is difficult (or not stupidly easy) to do, and affects only a small percentage of the player base, how can a developer or a designer convince management to authorize the man-hours? [Conversely, an easy change that affects 90% of the player base likely makes it into the development schedule even without any player urging.]

Additionally, one would think that any change to the appearance "engine" would have to ensure that all existing models (PCs and NPCs) in the game were unaffected. Which, among other things, would possibly require considerable testing. Again, ultimately this is an IT project where whatever great idea someone has on the development or design side, you have to get business buy-in to put it into the queue, and cost-benefit does start to play a significant role in this.

3. One recalls at least one (or more!) of the Saints Row games where character models and other appearance features were relatively "fungible" between genders. So you could roll a male character but make "him" look like a "her" in literally any and every respect, and vice versa (sadly, I do not recall whether this extended to character voicing).

To me, this would appear to be a Solomonic solution - make the appearance engine so open-ended that you could literally look...however. Provided this is technically feasible and does not require a ludicrous amount of resources to implement. And does not get ZOS thrown out of any regional markets.

At this stage of the game, however, I would not be holding my breath too much for dramatic changes. Maybe some incremental things down the road, if ZOS wishes it.

Minyassa · November 2017

Yes. And while you're at it, ZOS, could you maybe give us a "not as hairy as a gorilla" skin option for males? Sheesh.

Futura_Aeterna · November 2017

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

How about we take "Character Creation" a step further and have this:
(Note* Posted this just for fun. OP's post reminded me of this so I thought I would share...Enjoy....Huzzah!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgowBLb4sKw

This was not the main goal of my post, but dreaming is free.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zorvan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zorvan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zorvan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Does anyone else feel triggered that there are only two gender options at character creation? Ugh. Reinforcing the gender binary smh. #rejectthepatriarchy.

It would be cool if character creation went beyond the current two binary gender options. Perhaps a movement in that direction would allow movement in the direction of the OP's idea to unlock all cosmetic options for all characters.

There's no nudity in this game, so whatever your character has between their legs is up to you.

#thereareonly2gendersand4lights

You're talking about sex. To the OP's point, it would be awesome if aesthetic options were available to all characters regardless of who they are. Moving beyond the two binary options that are currently in the game would support that goal.

Name another gender that cannot be represented by the two available . And I swear, if you come up with some owlkin bs I'll insult people on Tumblr while using your name.

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

I would like bigger boobs for toons

Me too!

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. If you're struggling to understand that gender isn't binary, then there are plenty of educational resources available online.

This article from National Geographic has some information in it that might help, and it also contains some insight concerning appearance, which relates back to the OP's initial post about making appearance available to every character:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/

Pretty sure with enough money I could get a study done proving the sky is purple, too.

Again, name a gender ( real or imagined ) that cannot be represented by the masculine and feminine forms already provided ingame. A woman who identifies as a man can easily make a masculine figure from either of the two body forms available, a man who identifies as a woman can easily make a feminine figure from either of the two forms available. So yeah, unless you identify as a tree or an attack helicopter, I'm lost how you cannot accomplish what you want from the forms provided.

Where are you getting lost?

The OP has already pointed out that players are limited in what they may want to accomplish aesthetically due to restrictions put on the two current gender options in character creation. Then I suggested that moving beyond two binary gender options would enhance customization. That customization could even go beyond aesthetics.

For example, perhaps certain dialogue in expansions and DLCs could move beyond exclusively using "he/she" pronouns, which, again, further enhances customization.

And in relation to the selection of sex in the editor, it is as easy as placing a bar that can measure the sexual degree of your character if you so wish, I only ask that the cosmetics be released from gender or racial.
But it will be possible that all these proposals were something feasible for the development team (?)
Maybe this post is not making enough noise yet for that to happen.

Haquor · November 2017

Futura_Aeterna wrote: »

Hi ^_^ everyone!!
Consult this proposal with technical support and i sent it as a suggestion too.This was my message;

Package of female accessories and cosmetics, I'm a transexual guy who likes to dress and wear femenine clothes and cosmetics, so my character is a true reflection of that personality, but I'm limited when I try to use jewelry, eyelashes and some cosmetics that are only for the female gender. It should be possible for people who buy these cosmetic packages to have the freedom to use them freely, whatever your sexual and gender identity.
but this not only applies to cosmetics classified by genres, but it could also be applied to racial cosmetics!
surely there is someone who has thought about it at some time, the packs of cosmetics, tattoos, piercing, hairstyles and more, enable the ability to edit your character with some limitations, as if we went to the hairdresser, or tattoo our body, or change of piercing, ETC.
An example for me is that there is a male khajiit piercing on the nose that I would have liked to put on my argonian, using the packs to unlock those customization options would give more freedom and variety to the game.

And I wanted to propose my proposal here so that the community can give their opinion, if your like my idea, it is possible that the development team will focus on us to make our characters something unique and different.

I dont like the idea because I pefer clearly defined male and female appearances and the idea that all my characters are both comfortable in and proud of thier biological genders.

Jade1986 · November 2017

More freedoms are always good, although I anticipate "political" comments soon.

MythicEmperor · November 2017

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

ToRelax · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

MythicEmperor · November 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

How haven't I any clue? I understand that VI is a hermaphrodite. That has nothing to do with the suggestion, however, and most hermaphrodites choose one gender over the other. VEHK, although female at times, is referred to as "he."

Edit: Furthermore, the Argonians are an exception, and information regarding their gender stages is scarce.

What I don't understand is that if you truly identify as the opposite gender, why not play as that gender? If you identify as a female, play a female, and vice versa. Why would you play as a male dressed as a female when you truly feel you are the other gender?

GrumpyDuckling · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

It's sad that you think it's "bad" that male characters can run around in wedding dresses in this game. It's also sad that you think every person in Tamriel should force themselves to conform to the most common societal tendencies because they are "worried about survival." Your comment about "invent[ing] new ways of garnering attention" shows how shortsighted you are.

Your entire post makes me sad.

GrumpyDuckling · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

How haven't I any clue? I understand that VI is a hermaphrodite. That has nothing to do with the suggestion, however, and most hermaphrodites choose one gender over the other. VEHK, although female at times, is referred to as "he."

Edit: Furthermore, the Argonians are an exception, and information regarding their gender stages is scarce.

What I don't understand is that if you truly identify as the opposite gender, why not play as that gender? If you identify as a female, play a female, and vice versa. Why would you play as a male dressed as a female when you truly feel you are the other gender?

Maybe people like to play as a male character and like the look of wearing clothing that is commonly thought of as female clothing? Why is it such a big deal to you? You can make your own character wear whatever you want. Why do you need to tell others what to wear?

ToRelax · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

How haven't I any clue? I understand that VI is a hermaphrodite. That has nothing to do with the suggestion, however, and most hermaphrodites choose one gender over the other. VEHK, although female at times, is referred to as "he."

Edit: Furthermore, the Argonians are an exception, and information regarding their gender stages is scarce.

What I don't understand is that if you truly identify as the opposite gender, why not play as that gender? If you identify as a female, play a female, and vice versa. Why would you play as a male dressed as a female when you truly feel you are the other gender?

Let's see...

"TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies." - It doesn't have any lore against any kind of trans identities as far as I am aware. That means a lot of things could easily be added and not seem out of place.

"This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage."
Don't know where you got the idea from that the second era is somehow more primitive than later periods. If anything, we know that earlier cultures where more advanced (Dwemer, Velothi/Ashlanders, Ayleids, Argonians, Falmer etc.)

"The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention."
And you really wonder why your post was removed?

As for why not play as one of the binary options presented; I can't say I understand, but I don't have to. More interestingly, why would you care?

MythicEmperor · November 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

How haven't I any clue? I understand that VI is a hermaphrodite. That has nothing to do with the suggestion, however, and most hermaphrodites choose one gender over the other. VEHK, although female at times, is referred to as "he."

Edit: Furthermore, the Argonians are an exception, and information regarding their gender stages is scarce.

What I don't understand is that if you truly identify as the opposite gender, why not play as that gender? If you identify as a female, play a female, and vice versa. Why would you play as a male dressed as a female when you truly feel you are the other gender?

Let's see...

"TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies." - It doesn't have any lore against any kind of trans identities as far as I am aware. That means a lot of things could easily be added and not seem out of place.

"This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage."
Don't know where you got the idea from that the second era is somehow more primitive than later periods. If anything, we know that earlier cultures where more advanced (Dwemer, Velothi/Ashlanders, Ayleids, Argonians, Falmer etc.)

"The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention."
And you really wonder why your post was removed?

As for why not play as one of the binary options presented; I can't say I understand, but I don't have to. More interestingly, why would you care?

I care because it goes against the identity of the game. I value the setting's integrity over IRL preferences. Just because I drive a car IRL doesn't mean I'm going to make a post asking for them in-game. You must remove your personal beliefs and tendencies if you want to truly experience the world of Nirn.

My point concerning the lore is this: If transgenders existed in this time, we would likely know about it by indicators in-game. You can't just throw things into the game because it is trending IRL. I could be a toucansexual spider-kin ketchup packet, but would ZOS validate this identity? I wouldn't want them to even if I did. Why? Because this is Nirn, not Earth.

Furthermore, the ancient civilizations are now mostly lost. There are no sources of transgenders then, even so.

Concerning my post being removed, there is nothing to wonder about. ZOS values censorship over free thought; this has been made clear to me on many occasions.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

It's sad that you think it's "bad" that male characters can run around in wedding dresses in this game. It's also sad that you think every person in Tamriel should force themselves to conform to the most common societal tendencies because they are "worried about survival." Your comment about "invent[ing] new ways of garnering attention" shows how shortsighted you are.

Your entire post makes me sad.

"Common societal tendencies?" You do realize that it is currently seen as brave and stylish to identify as something else.

This isn't about conformity. Nonconformity has become popular enough that it is conformity.

Herin lies the problem: emotion. Emotions such as sadness cloud one's mind when evaluating the longevity of trends in society. One shouldn't feel sad simply because another has an opposing view. That in itself is "shortsighted."

Futura_Aeterna · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

/Clap Clap Clap Clap you are unique!!
A game with characteristic of roleplay, and have more features of customization would make the game a place to share laughter with friends, your opinion counts as that of everyone, but please respect the ponion of others.

I have always thought that in the civilizations of the past we were more liberal with where to put our noble parts. And not like now that we have greater prejudices and phobias.

GrumpyDuckling · November 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

If you don't actually have any clue about the lore... why bring it in? >_>

How haven't I any clue? I understand that VI is a hermaphrodite. That has nothing to do with the suggestion, however, and most hermaphrodites choose one gender over the other. VEHK, although female at times, is referred to as "he."

Edit: Furthermore, the Argonians are an exception, and information regarding their gender stages is scarce.

What I don't understand is that if you truly identify as the opposite gender, why not play as that gender? If you identify as a female, play a female, and vice versa. Why would you play as a male dressed as a female when you truly feel you are the other gender?

Let's see...

"TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies." - It doesn't have any lore against any kind of trans identities as far as I am aware. That means a lot of things could easily be added and not seem out of place.

"This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage."
Don't know where you got the idea from that the second era is somehow more primitive than later periods. If anything, we know that earlier cultures where more advanced (Dwemer, Velothi/Ashlanders, Ayleids, Argonians, Falmer etc.)

"The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention."
And you really wonder why your post was removed?

As for why not play as one of the binary options presented; I can't say I understand, but I don't have to. More interestingly, why would you care?

I care because it goes against the identity of the game. I value the setting's integrity over IRL preferences. Just because I drive a car IRL doesn't mean I'm going to make a post asking for them in-game. You must remove your personal beliefs and tendencies if you want to truly experience the world of Nirn.

My point concerning the lore is this: If transgenders existed in this time, we would likely know about it by indicators in-game. You can't just throw things into the game because it is trending IRL. I could be a toucansexual spider-kin ketchup packet, but would ZOS validate this identity? I wouldn't want them to even if I did. Why? Because this is Nirn, not Earth.

Furthermore, the ancient civilizations are now mostly lost. There are no sources of transgenders then, even so.

Concerning my post being removed, there is nothing to wonder about. ZOS values censorship over free thought; this has been made clear to me on many occasions.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I can't seem to find my response anywhere, @ZOS might have ninja removed it. Anyways, I find it bad enough that male characters can run around in wedding dresses. It completely takes me out of the game. If anything, we need more gender-based restrictions. ESO isn't a transgender simulator. I'm sure there are plenty of other games that can validate your feelings. TES has lore establishing cultures and societal tendencies. This is the 2nd Era, and, by observing later cultures from previous games, we know your ideas simply don't fit. Sure, it could happen in the 18th Era, but this is the 2nd Era. Slavery exists and will exist for a long time in TES. Do you really think that transgenders fit into the current time period? The world is supposed to be primitive and savage. The people of Tamriel are too worried about survival to invent new ways of garnering attention.

It's sad that you think it's "bad" that male characters can run around in wedding dresses in this game. It's also sad that you think every person in Tamriel should force themselves to conform to the most common societal tendencies because they are "worried about survival." Your comment about "invent[ing] new ways of garnering attention" shows how shortsighted you are.

Your entire post makes me sad.

"Common societal tendencies?" You do realize that it is currently seen as brave and stylish to identify as something else.

This isn't about conformity. Nonconformity has become popular enough that it is conformity.

Herin lies the problem: emotion. Emotions such as sadness cloud one's mind when evaluating the longevity of trends in society. One shouldn't feel sad simply because another has an opposing view. That in itself is "shortsighted."

It's not your "opposing view" (as you call it) that makes me sad, it's the fact that you're expressing desire to control how people look in a fantasy world based on on this strict/binary gender appearance limitation that you seem to think SHOULD exist in this fantasy world (and by the way, there is nothing in TES lore to suggest that a strict/binary gender appearance limitation exists, so you have no evidence to support what you are saying).

Sad.

Kay1 · November 2017

Lmao

Ruckly · November 2017

I'm in favor of the OP's idea. I would make a transexual alt and play the game in 1st person mode. Once that catches on half of everybody would probably do the same.