Two-Handed Weapons Should Count As Two Set Pieces

tizodd · November 2017

Title^

It's seems really imbalanced that dual-wield and sword-and-board have access to 12 pieces of gear. That means they can potentially have two full normal set bonuses, and a two piece monster set bonus. Meanwhile, staves, bows, and two-handed melee weapons only have access to 11 pieces of gear at a time.

I feel a simple fix would be to make staves, bows, and two-handed melee weapons count as two pieces of a set.

I'm sure I'm not the only who's had this thought, but have the devs ever responded as to why they haven't made this change to balance gear?

NightbladeMechanics · November 2017

You can wear 5/5/2 on staff and 2h/bow builds by wearing separate 5pc sets on your front and back bars + undaunted. That’s been the meta for a long time. I’ve been doing that ever since IC patch..

Mondini · November 2017

You're not the only one, it happens monthly
It hasn't been changed
What does that tell you?
It wont change.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You can wear 5/5/2 on staff and 2h/bow builds by wearing separate 5pc sets on your front and back bars + undaunted. That’s been the meta for a long time. I’ve been doing that ever since IC patch..

True, that's been PVP meta for a while, with sets like lich that can proc once per minute and stick after bar swapping. For PVE it is not worth giving up the VMA staff or bow back bar.

AzraelKrieg · November 2017

lazerlaz · November 2017

How bout no

Mojmir · November 2017

lazerlaz wrote: »

How bout no

Nah we've got enough of those

Kali_Despoine · November 2017

how about making the two-hander cleaves better. I always gasp at the sight of a two-hander in a random dungeon.
Man this is going to be a long dungeon run.

dmnqwk · November 2017

Off-hands shouldn't count as a set piece would be a better idea!

DMuehlhausen · November 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Was going to ask for the GIF...

starkerealm · November 2017

Wait, I thought I posted in this thread... something about, "I haven't seen one of these threads in a month or so..." Oh god, it's happening again, isn't it?

AnviOfVai · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Wait, I thought I posted in this thread... something about, "I haven't seen one of these threads in a month or so..." Oh god, it's happening again, isn't it?

Oh yeah, I remember you in the other thread when commenting about this!

Sigtric · November 2017

AGNTSA

The guess it has been more than a week hasn't it?

Nighn_9 · November 2017

boss set + destro mastery + necro would be cool using destro staff on front and back bar

Kanar · November 2017

tizodd wrote: »

Title^

It's seems really imbalanced that dual-wield and sword-and-board have access to 12 pieces of gear. That means they can potentially have two full normal set bonuses, and a two piece monster set bonus. Meanwhile, staves, bows, and two-handed melee weapons only have access to 11 pieces of gear at a time.

I feel a simple fix would be to make staves, bows, and two-handed melee weapons count as two pieces of a set.

I'm sure I'm not the only who's had this thought, but have the devs ever responded as to why they haven't made this change to balance gear?

A question: do you think any balance issues would be introduced by this change? Followup: if yes, then what type of changes would be needed to restore balance?

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

how about making the two-hander cleaves better. I always gasp at the sight of a two-hander in a random dungeon.
Man this is going to be a long dungeon run.

I'm sorry to hear your experience with crappy players; good thing you will never see a DW flurry spammer or bow sniper. While I would not turn down a buff (in some areas 2h needs it), 2h aoe is already better than DW and I welcome you to join me in a dungeon run. I even have a friend who sometimes runs 2h; god I bet that dungeon would be a nightmare and take forever with two 2hander dpses!

tizodd · November 2017

Thanks for all the sarcastic replies and cute little gifs

. I've only just hit cp401 and have been playing since a little after Morrowind was released so I wasn't aware that this topic was one of those taboo things not to be brought up ever.

But no one has answered my question: have the devs ever actually chimed in and told us why they won't make this change? It seems to me that it would balance things without the need for a band-aid work-a-round like swapping bars.

Drakkdjinn · November 2017

Go for vma vdsa or AS 2h'ers - voila you can wear 3 sets simultaneously between a total of 4 available on 2 bars.

RABIDxWOLVERINE · November 2017

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Strider__Roshin · November 2017

I have a better idea. How about we move Rally to the Fighters guild so we can finally bury the 2H. I can't stand handicapping myself because of that one move.

nnargun · November 2017

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

tizodd · November 2017

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

How would it disturb balance? It seems to me that it would put two-handers more on par with dual-wield for dps.

I'm speaking strictly from a PvE point of view btw. The need to balance PvE and PvP is a whole other topic lol, I wish all mmo devs would just keep PvE and PvP balancing separate. I don't know of any mmo with PvE and PvP that hasn't managed to screw one side while trying to balance the other side.

Taleof2Cities · November 2017

tizodd wrote: »

Thanks for all the sarcastic replies and cute little gifs . I've only just hit cp401 and have been playing since a little after Morrowind was released so I wasn't aware that this topic was one of those taboo things not to be brought up ever.

The forums DOES have a search tool you know. With a simple search you could have pulled up the pages upon pages of threads and posts on staves and two-handers ... er, I mean, prevented the sarcasm and gifs.

nnargun · November 2017

tizodd wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

How would it disturb balance? It seems to me that it would put two-handers more on par with dual-wield for dps.

I'm speaking strictly from a PvE point of view btw. The need to balance PvE and PvP is a whole other topic lol, I wish all mmo devs would just keep PvE and PvP balancing separate. I don't know of any mmo with PvE and PvP that hasn't managed to screw one side while trying to balance the other side.

You are assuming that right now it's not balanced but I'm sure the devs had this in mind when balancing other things regarding the classes/weapon types etc.

driosketch · November 2017

You still wouldn't be able to mix and match sets on the two handed weapons. Might be a small issue if the 4 piece bonus is a stat increase when weapon swapping.

SirAndy · November 2017

Kanar · November 2017

tizodd wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

How would it disturb balance? It seems to me that it would put two-handers more on par with dual-wield for dps.

I'm speaking strictly from a PvE point of view btw. The need to balance PvE and PvP is a whole other topic lol, I wish all mmo devs would just keep PvE and PvP balancing separate. I don't know of any mmo with PvE and PvP that hasn't managed to screw one side while trying to balance the other side.

In PvE stamina uses vMA bow for dps so the proposed change wouldn't make a difference there. For 2h I don't think it would bring it up to DW single target damage, plus it wouldn't improve any build that uses asylum 2h. Rather than further disincentivizing the unique weapons (which are already of questionable benefit in most cases) I would rather that they remove the set bonus from off hand weapon and shield. Then make 2h enchants twice as strong as 1h enchants (or halve the 1h enchant). This would bring 2h and DW much closer.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

Kanar wrote: »

tizodd wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

How would it disturb balance? It seems to me that it would put two-handers more on par with dual-wield for dps.

I'm speaking strictly from a PvE point of view btw. The need to balance PvE and PvP is a whole other topic lol, I wish all mmo devs would just keep PvE and PvP balancing separate. I don't know of any mmo with PvE and PvP that hasn't managed to screw one side while trying to balance the other side.

In PvE stamina uses vMA bow for dps so the proposed change wouldn't make a difference there. For 2h I don't think it would bring it up to DW single target damage, plus it wouldn't improve any build that uses asylum 2h. Rather than further disincentivizing the unique weapons (which are already of questionable benefit in most cases) I would rather that they remove the set bonus from off hand weapon and shield. Then make 2h enchants twice as strong as 1h enchants (or halve the 1h enchant). This would bring 2h and DW much closer.

It would not affect bow/DW at all, but it would affect bow/bow a lot (arguably the weakest weapon combo in PVE). There's no reason to use 2 VMA bows, so the front bar bow could complete a 5-piece set, along with a constant-on 5-piece set and a 2-piece monster helm.

For 2h, it probably would not be enough to bring it up to DW damage, but it's a step in the right direction.

The proposed change is more about allowing setups that are not Dual Wield or Sword and Shield to use a Monster Helm set without giving up a 5-piece set.

I also don't think enchants need to be changed, it's fine that dual wield gets 2 enchants because they alternate procs on light attacks. The only skill that will activate the off-hand enchant is twin slashes. The off-hand enchant goes off much less frequently than the main hand, so cutting both in half would end up weaker than one full-strength enchant.

Keep 2 enchants as the dual wield benefit, but give 5-5-2 to 2 handed weapon users.

SaintSubwayy · November 2017

and here we are again...

how to beat a dead horse

no but srsly, most 2h weapons you use are one-of-a-kind things, like vMA BOW in PVE, vMA and vAS staffs.
so for most of the time you actually dont need a 2pcs 2h weapon.
not everyone can complete vMA, vDSA ect. but if you cant complete this content means you are in no need for those.

jeah maybe i'd be nice, but still 95% of ppl who have vMA bows, use them for PVE, no 2pcs setbow can outperform it, same for staaves. "hander is meh, Master's nice for Trash and vAS 2h is nice for singletarget, but still worse than DW in PVE.

for PVP.... well perfected vAS staves or imperfected are great and imperfected are easy accesable.
2h, well vMA and vAS are nice, but jeah there a 2pcs bonus would be handy (maybe).
Bow...well master is pretty strong.

RABIDxWOLVERINE · November 2017

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

@nnargun that's basically what I was getting at. I would like it for my bow bar but I can deal with it as I have been for years now lol. Not sure its worth it in the long run. Short sighted I would love it but in the long term I feel it would cause more problems than it solves.

Casul · November 2017

Pve it would help balance, pvp it would hurt balance. Imo.

Kanar · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

tizodd wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

While I may agree to an extent I'm not sure I would want to change it. I'm kinds in the middle. Would it benefit me and many others yes but I think it could cause further balancing issues so I'm not sure we should want this change. I'm very much on the fence and could be persuaded one way or the other.

Ofc it would disturb balance. It's basically one strong set bonus more for all 2h while DW stays as it is.

How would it disturb balance? It seems to me that it would put two-handers more on par with dual-wield for dps.

I'm speaking strictly from a PvE point of view btw. The need to balance PvE and PvP is a whole other topic lol, I wish all mmo devs would just keep PvE and PvP balancing separate. I don't know of any mmo with PvE and PvP that hasn't managed to screw one side while trying to balance the other side.

In PvE stamina uses vMA bow for dps so the proposed change wouldn't make a difference there. For 2h I don't think it would bring it up to DW single target damage, plus it wouldn't improve any build that uses asylum 2h. Rather than further disincentivizing the unique weapons (which are already of questionable benefit in most cases) I would rather that they remove the set bonus from off hand weapon and shield. Then make 2h enchants twice as strong as 1h enchants (or halve the 1h enchant). This would bring 2h and DW much closer.

It would not affect bow/DW at all, but it would affect bow/bow a lot (arguably the weakest weapon combo in PVE). There's no reason to use 2 VMA bows, so the front bar bow could complete a 5-piece set, along with a constant-on 5-piece set and a 2-piece monster helm.

For 2h, it probably would not be enough to bring it up to DW damage, but it's a step in the right direction.

The proposed change is more about allowing setups that are not Dual Wield or Sword and Shield to use a Monster Helm set without giving up a 5-piece set.

I also don't think enchants need to be changed, it's fine that dual wield gets 2 enchants because they alternate procs on light attacks. The only skill that will activate the off-hand enchant is twin slashes. The off-hand enchant goes off much less frequently than the main hand, so cutting both in half would end up weaker than one full-strength enchant.

Keep 2 enchants as the dual wield benefit, but give 5-5-2 to 2 handed weapon users.

Going bow/bow is deliberately gimping yourself and you deserve it if you go that combo. 2h/2h and DW/DW aren't any more viable.

It won't help 2h because asylum, masters or maelstrom based on application. In PvE bow uses maelstrom, in PvP it uses masters.

So basically you're asking for it "just because." Just use some agility jewelry or 3pc of trial set. It would be better to fix the underlying issues instead of throwing on a set bonus.
PS: you notice that twin slashes is one of only 2 DW skills used in the typical rotation?