Those “exploiters”

Cubagaming · November 2017

The people that got banned on PS4 were not selling skins or the instances or such.

Also, the boss could attack you the way they did it. They had to avoid AOE's.

Jeremy · November 2017

makreth wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

I tend to agree with you about this.

Players who take advantage of unintended advantages due to mistakes in game design shouldn't be faulted. Ultimately that is the developer's fault. And how are the players suppose to know if it's an exploit anyway? Killing a boss from a safe area certainly isn't obvious to me.

You can't be serious. One does not need critical thinking to reach a decision. And the terms of agreement which pretty much most games have the same policy.

I wonder how many of us have used similar techniques in games to make a fight easier? I suspect most of us have.

This is not something I would support a permanent ban over. Hell, I wouldn't even support a temporary ban. So yes, I am being quite serious.

I would be alright with removing any items or achievements these players obtained by using the unintended advantage. But I think that's where it should end. Expecting everyone who plays your game to act like bug testers and report every possible exploit instead of taking advantage of it just isn't realistic.

Jeremy · November 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I'm late to this one as I only just woke up but here's my rant.

This "ZOS made the bug so it's their fault" attitude needs to stop.
This kind of stuff is why exploiting runs so rampant in ESO, exploiting any kind of bug has since the dawn of MMO games been a bannable offence. I know some people (especially console) might be new to the MMO scene but this is how it works.

ZOS has been annoyingly lenient (or absent) in enforcing exploit in the past which has added to this culture we have if "exploit until it's fixed" and it makes me sad that our community thinks that way, as in my 15 years of MMO gaming this is the first community I have seen with that attitude.

Yes the game has bugs, yes those are the fault of ZOS. However we all agree to a very clear cut ToS that we will not abuse bugs for the simple reason ZOS (or any MMO company) will never catch them all.

I hope ZOS keeps up the trend of what they did last night, because that was the first step to cleaning up this game and making it a better place for everyone.

You just admitted these bugs are the fault of ZoS. So the right attitude here - at least IMHO - would be for ZoS to take at least some of responsibility here too instead of laying it all on the players.

Bugs are going to happen. Anyone who has even the slightest amount of experience at coding understands that. So I'm not trying to be unfair to the developers here either. But ultimately this is still just a video game - and permanently banning someone who bought your game just because they figured out a trick to beating a boss easier that wasn't intended seems like way over-kill to me.

I understand that it's in the ToS. But everything is in the ToS. It basically says they can ban you for anything they want so as to insulate themselves from lawsuits.

Just take away what the players got via the exploit and consider the service they did by bringing the bug to their attention and call it even. That's how I would have reacted had this been my game.

StackonClown · November 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I hope ZOS keeps up the trend of what they did last night, because that was the first step to cleaning up this game and making it a better place for everyone.

What if ZOS doesn't keep up the 'trend'?

Will the people currently cheering then protest just as loudly?

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I'm late to this one as I only just woke up but here's my rant.

This "ZOS made the bug so it's their fault" attitude needs to stop.
This kind of stuff is why exploiting runs so rampant in ESO, exploiting any kind of bug has since the dawn of MMO games been a bannable offence. I know some people (especially console) might be new to the MMO scene but this is how it works.

ZOS has been annoyingly lenient (or absent) in enforcing exploit in the past which has added to this culture we have if "exploit until it's fixed" and it makes me sad that our community thinks that way, as in my 15 years of MMO gaming this is the first community I have seen with that attitude.

Yes the game has bugs, yes those are the fault of ZOS. However we all agree to a very clear cut ToS that we will not abuse bugs for the simple reason ZOS (or any MMO company) will never catch them all.

I hope ZOS keeps up the trend of what they did last night, because that was the first step to cleaning up this game and making it a better place for everyone.

You just admitted these bugs are the fault of ZoS. So the right attitude here - at least IMHO - would be for ZoS to take at least some of responsibility here too instead of laying it all on the players.

Bugs are going to happen. Anyone who has even the slightest amount of experience at coding understands that. So I'm not trying to be unfair to the developers here either. But ultimately this is still just a video game - and permanently banning someone who bought your game just because they figured out a trick to beating a boss easier that wasn't intended seems like way over-kill to me.

I understand that it's in the ToS. But everything is in the ToS. It basically says they can ban you for anything they want so as to insulate themselves from lawsuits.

Just take away what the players got via the exploit and consider the service they did by bringing the bug to their attention and call it even. That's how I would have reacted had this been my game.

You ever think of going into politics? All this spinning and twisting would work wonders for you there.

Feanor · November 2017

The mindset of a lot of people here is breathtaking. It’s basically “we’ll exploit the [snip] out of the game because it’s all ZOS fault”. This and ZOS wrong leniency in these matters are why we have the sad community we have.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Cage_Lizardman · November 2017

Got the Falkreath skin first week when nodeath and speedrun were bugged, and you didn't have to do anything special except complete the dungeon on hm to get it (not that I found that easy). Please Zos make more exploits like that instead so I can walk around in more skins without getting banned.

Drazkyth · November 2017

No. I can see why some are saying it's perhaps overzealous as in the past Zenimax have been in my opinion far too lenient but just because they were lenient in the past doesn't mean an exploiter should have the bravado to knowingly exploit and think they'll get away with it.

I don't PvE much anymore these days since vMoL and getting that skin so I have no interest in the vHoF or vAS skins however there are players and groups out there running these for countless hours to get the rewards legit and it would be a slap across the face to those players if people exploiting the achievement were not punished.

I just hope Zenimax stick to this policy against those knowingly exploiting or cheating their way to the top. It ruins the sense of achievement for the vast majority of the player base and cheapens those rewards.

Good riddance I say.

Elsonso · November 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

ultimately this is still just a video game - and permanently banning someone who bought your game just because they figured out a trick to beating a boss easier that wasn't intended seems like way over-kill to me.

Just take away what the players got via the exploit and consider the service they did by bringing the bug to their attention and call it even. That's how I would have reacted had this been my game.

If the players had done a service to ZOS in that way, maybe that would have been the punishment and maybe things would have unfolded differently.

Instead, they went public with the exploit, spread it, and (reportedly) capitalized on it, in what could be described as a "get it before they fix it" mentaltiy. That is not a service to ZOS.

Someone created a video showing how to do this, and they knew it was an exploit, and they knew they could get banned for it. "If more people do this glitch, the less people will get banned. You can't get banned if a whole bunch of people do it, so everybody do it." That person is not doing a service to ZOS.

In my mind, that all set the tone for the response from ZOS.

If this had been just a group of players finding a trick to beating the boss, and they had simply reported, and then kept a secret, it is likely no one would have been banned or punished.

drkfrontiers · November 2017

I'mma newbie!! LOL

Whose Saint Olms and where he be at. Where'd dis place Asylum Sanctorium?!

I feel like I need to open a can of whipass, you know what I'm talkin' about!!

Stopnaggin · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Again ban em, I'm all for it they knew it was wrong and got what they deserve. But how about a little bit of a proactive approach from zeni instead of reactive? I have never played any other game that you could count on content being broken before it was released. Yes other games have exploits but this one is a regular occurrence.

I am not a fan of ZOS quality control, and they are far too laid back and casual about fixing bugs. However, the way that this has been decribed makes this sound like something QA would not have detected. The team that designed the space might have been able to anticipate it, but to know that for sure, I would have to know the specifics.

If they hired the guys that found it in the first place it damn sure would have been found. My point was if this was a one off thing maybe I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is every dlc. Again no excuse for using the exploit but if players can find it in sure developers could as well. Hell I'm sitting on 2 broken quests for cwc right now. And its not like they are new I checked the forums and they were known before release, but I wouldn't expect a fast fix for these either.

If the guys that found it had been the ones they'd hired to test it... no, they would have kept it to themselves. That's kinda the outlook of this specific kind of player, and why PTSs have the reputation for finding, and not reporting exploits, that they do.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

The problem needed dealt with , and the worst offenders needed punished.
On the other hand it is sickening to see how mean and vindictive some of you are.

This.

Ya’ll are brutal and vicious when it comes to Zos actually doing something. You also flip out when Zos doesn’t do anything.

It’s honestly depressing seeing comments along the lines of “why aren’t they doing anything for pvp?!?! Pve sucks”

That’s your opinion and you’re allowed to have it. Pvp and pve are equally important. We have to deal with enough bulls h it from error and bugs in the game. We shouldn’t be ripping each other apart

If you watched ESO Live they mentioned they are working on fixing the loading screens. I don’t know if any of you have actually taken a coding class or seen the insides of video game coding. It’s massive undertaking.

If you find something that doesn’t seem right and you don’t report it you have no right to complain about what happens.

There is a huge difference between randomly coming across a bug and actively participating in said exploit or bug..

I think the real issue I have is that they do not test or PTS test console...if they do then they need to consider hiring more competent testers. It took 4 days for ppl to find a glitch on the main piece of content being pushed by ZoS. 4 days...Not to even mention the loading screens...how does this go unnoticed? A console PTS would have cleared up all this mess before it even started.

From what I've managed to piece together? No, testing wouldn't have caught this. It relies on the players intentionally subverting the systems in place. That kind of stuff tends to be much harder to find during professional testing, and PTS environments are notorious for finding stuff like that and keeping it to themselves.

Testing used to look for these kinds of things so yeah it more than likely would have been caught. That's one of the points of testing yeah?

No.

The point of testing is, "does everything work." If the testing team had enough time to actually do their jobs, they'd have found the non-functioning quests that were broken.

The problem is still it's much easier to test a specific factor than to identify an unknown one. So, "does this quest work?" "Does that achievement unlock?" That's stuff you can easily test. "Is there an exploit?"

You can see the difference between these questions, right?

"Does this quest work?" Simple test, you need to get a guy to run through it. If you're thorough, you need a guy to run through it a couple times under different circumstances. Realistically, you're looking at a couple hours on the outside.

"Does that achievement unlock?" Again, simple test. Get a tester on a test account, and have them unlock it. Possibly a couple times under different circumstances. Depending on the achievement you're looking at a couple hours to a day or two.

"Is there an exploit?" Where? How? What? Maybe? But, how do you get someone who's making slightly better than minimum wage to find it?

Now, I'm making it sound like the latter doesn't exist. Testers that look for stuff like that absolutely do. But, it's never going to be 100%, even under the best circumstances.

Yeah I know what they are testing for, but in previous games that I have beta tested we also were reporting things such as this. Actually encouraged to find things like this. And. I agree it will never be 100%.

Think about it this way though, they designed this they tested this and it only took 4 days for someone to find it. Not simply a bugged quest but a major piece of content. Quality control is seriously lacking here. Yeah we are over simplifying a bit but we both get the point.

I know what questions they ask on pts, and frankly they don't ask for much. Again these guys knew better so that isn't the issue I have. My issue is with how ZOS releases broken content, not a one time thing, every time.they really should have a longer test cycle. Monitor pts like they do the game. Push releases back if need be, just something that resembles QC.

Cpt_Teemo · November 2017

Just be glad that we can't get perm banned for even the simplest things

In World of tanks you only get like 2 warnings before your perm banned and you can get 1 warning for each 1 time you accidentally shoot or kill one of your team members.

mikemacon · November 2017

The entire combat system in ESO is now technically based on an exploit.

Animations are there for a reason, and that reason is usually to balance stronger skills/abilities. Hence Crystal Frags having a longer animation time when the quick-cast isn't proc'ed.

But instead of fixing the exploit and making it so you can't cancel animation, ZOS decided to embrace the exploit, and now the higher-level content practically requires it since the end-game bosses are what other games would call "bullet sponges".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

vamp_emily · November 2017

Should I be banned?

A while ago I did a Baby MoL @ level 8, which made the trial very easy for everyone. Or maybe I should be banned for moving a boss ( in a pledge ) to a new location so we took less damage.

gulp. Am I an exploiter?

Runs · November 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

Should I be banned?

A while ago I did a Baby MoL @ level 8, which made the trial very easy for everyone. Or maybe I should be banned for moving a boss ( in a pledge ) to a new location so we took less damage.

gulp. Am I an exploiter?

Back then scaling to your level was a part of the game, not an exploit. If you found a way to do it now, as we are scaled to the content instead of it to our level, then yes.

Runs · November 2017

Runs wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Should I be banned?

A while ago I did a Baby MoL @ level 8, which made the trial very easy for everyone. Or maybe I should be banned for moving a boss ( in a pledge ) to a new location so we took less damage.

gulp. Am I an exploiter?

Back then scaling to your level was a part of the game, not an exploit. If you found a way to do it now, as we are scaled to the content instead of it to our level, then yes.

-Edit to add- Or if back then you found a way to do it scaled to 10 but still gave you VR16/CP160 gear, yes. As it should have only given you your the level it was scaled to or your level, whichever was lower.

-Edit to add- Sometimes I click quote instead of edit.

LiquidPony · November 2017

mikemacon wrote: »

The entire combat system in ESO is now technically based on an exploit.

Animations are there for a reason, and that reason is usually to balance stronger skills/abilities. Hence Crystal Frags having a longer animation time when the quick-cast isn't proc'ed.

But instead of fixing the exploit and making it so you can't cancel animation, ZOS decided to embrace the exploit, and now the higher-level content practically requires it since the end-game bosses are what other games would call "bullet sponges".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh god, no thread is safe from the anti animation canceling crowd.

Animation canceling doesn't even matter in PvE anymore, aside from bar swapping.

SanTii.92 · November 2017

mikemacon wrote: »

The entire combat system in ESO is now technically based on an exploit.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Technically not an axploit, as zos said multiple times already. So no.