Those “exploiters”

starkerealm · November 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

The amount of exploiting that goes on in Cyrodiil with no consequences is just even more sad after reading about this. Forever a forgotten place :'(

^ This and that... In the scheme of things who cares about a skin - rampant PVP cheating should be fixed first

Alternately, "who cares about PVP, it's just some titles and a costume, in the scheme of things having a skin and claiming to be 'world's first' on your platform is way more important."

It's a perspective thing. For PvE players, particularly progression players, this is a huge deal. Bigger than someone swiping Emperor via CE is, ironically enough.

Turelus · November 2017

I'm late to this one as I only just woke up but here's my rant.

This "ZOS made the bug so it's their fault" attitude needs to stop.
This kind of stuff is why exploiting runs so rampant in ESO, exploiting any kind of bug has since the dawn of MMO games been a bannable offence. I know some people (especially console) might be new to the MMO scene but this is how it works.

ZOS has been annoyingly lenient (or absent) in enforcing exploit in the past which has added to this culture we have if "exploit until it's fixed" and it makes me sad that our community thinks that way, as in my 15 years of MMO gaming this is the first community I have seen with that attitude.

Yes the game has bugs, yes those are the fault of ZOS. However we all agree to a very clear cut ToS that we will not abuse bugs for the simple reason ZOS (or any MMO company) will never catch them all.

I hope ZOS keeps up the trend of what they did last night, because that was the first step to cleaning up this game and making it a better place for everyone.

starkerealm · November 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Yes the game has bugs, yes those are the fault of ZOS. However we all agree to a very clear cut ToS that we will not abuse bugs for the simple reason ZOS (or any MMO company) will never catch them all.

Probably also worth remembering, a lot of this excuse hinges on the idea that the bugs are intentional. They're not.

When you're talking about, literally, millions of lines of code, where a single out of place semi-colon or mistyped bracket can cause problems down the line, it's entirely unreasonable to assume that every little weirdness you find is intentional.

More than that, the idea that, "well, I understand what's gone wrong, therefore I must be able to fix it at will," is also bunk. When it comes to debugging code, the answer can be aggravatingly obtuse.

Why is there no ETA on this bugfix or that exploit? Because finding the cause can be insanely difficult. But, we've got plenty of armchair coders who will tell you, "Nah, see, just fix it. If they don't fix it, they must want it to be there." Bull-*******-****.

Unfadingsilence · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

Directly from the ToS

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

No pity given to those banned.
Good riddance to them.

Until they pay $30 for the game again, and create a new account.

Na if it's there first offense it only be a 3-day ban and they will keep what they got out of it just like every other exploit that has been in the game

Ajaxduo · November 2017

More than deserved, hopefully it sends a message. (Probably won’t).

LukosCreyden · November 2017

The exploiters knew what they were getting in to.
They did it anyway, now they are paying the price.

Good discussion, close topic. On to the next forum post.

Slick_007 · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Where is the line between mechanics and exploit though? No perma bans went out for all the groups standing on the rock on vHRC first boss to avoid damage (most didn't even know this was not intended until it was finally fixed recently). Or was kiting the Ozara adds out of the room in vSO an exploit? Seemed like a smart strategy to me until ZoS fixed it recently.

How about the last boss of Arx Corinium, is it an exploit to stand in the safe area the does not receive AoE damage? In vDSA final boss, is positioning to get one flame Atronach instead of four going to trigger the next round of bans? Which things are considered smart mechanics vs unintended exploits?

I don't know the specifics of the vAS exploit, maybe it was obviously cheating, maybe not, but I don't like the idea that finding safe locations in any boss encounter can lead to a ban.

if you cant tell the difference you have bigger issues. hell, just by reading the thread its clear which is which.

Mureel · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Where is the line between mechanics and exploit though? No perma bans went out for all the groups standing on the rock on vHRC first boss to avoid damage (most didn't even know this was not intended until it was finally fixed recently). Or was kiting the Ozara adds out of the room in vSO an exploit? Seemed like a smart strategy to me until ZoS fixed it recently.

How about the last boss of Arx Corinium, is it an exploit to stand in the safe area the does not receive AoE damage? In vDSA final boss, is positioning to get one flame Atronach instead of four going to trigger the next round of bans? Which things are considered smart mechanics vs unintended exploits?

I don't know the specifics of the vAS exploit, maybe it was obviously cheating, maybe not, but I don't like the idea that finding safe locations in any boss encounter can lead to a ban.

Completely incorrect post because:
1. VHRC: The boss can still attack you! It was to avoid ONLY the little circles of aoe that fly around the ground (and most people I know never did this because it's trashy)
2. Kiting Ozara adds out of the room is a strategy! You have a 2nd tank who does it, who still needs to cope with those adds, be given heals and resources, etc. it is NOT AT ALL as if they cannot attack you! Ask any tank.
3. The last boss of Arx HAS A BABY PET who she literally tells to take cover and makes a shield over! It is a mechanic that you run to the baby for the shield! Not kill the baby, and have no shield. It is a planned mechanic.

You don't know what you are talking about at all.

There is a huge difference between attacking a boss through a door who cannot even attack you and intended mechanics and/or strategies.

Mureel · November 2017

mommadani907 wrote: »

Please. They said all those people caught with CE were going to get perma bans. We know how that worked out.

I reckon that this is because in some cases; they really could not tell the difference between CE fast movement (IDK about the Ulti thing, I cannot remember what that was or how it worked) and unintentional rubberbanding due to bad lag.

Voxicity · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

StackonClown wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

The amount of exploiting that goes on in Cyrodiil with no consequences is just even more sad after reading about this. Forever a forgotten place :'(

^ This and that... In the scheme of things who cares about a skin - rampant PVP cheating should be fixed first

Alternately, "who cares about PVP, it's just some titles and a costume, in the scheme of things having a skin and claiming to be 'world's first' on your platform is way more important."

It's a perspective thing. For PvE players, particularly progression players, this is a huge deal. Bigger than someone swiping Emperor via CE is, ironically enough.

PvE and PvP fanboying aside, the fact remains that ZOS just plain sucks at punishing players. The part of the ToS that these players violated, could also be violated by scaling dungeons down in order to obtain virtual items. But ZOS approaches exploits pretty much on a case basis. So you never really know what is bannable and what isn't. Obviously not an excuse to go ahead and exploit but where is the line drawn? I can (theoretically) use cheat engine in cyrodiil but I can't cheese a boss for a skin. But it's fine if its a dungeon skin, don't worry we wont ban you then. It's just simply a mess.

Stopnaggin · November 2017

Bans are fine. What would actually work better would be to have a company that would actually test their own game to find this crap before release. Yes they knew it was an exploit and shouldn't be doing it, no sympathy here, but why do they keep releasing crap that's broken in the first place? I have no faith that they will fix it anyway, Maw is still exploitable after what 3 fixes.

Put this effort into getting bots and multiboxers. Or put that effort into testing your own game before releasing it. We are not supposed to be beta testers here.

baratron · November 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

What if you honestly didnt know it was an exploit? Such as a pug run?

How many people PUG a Veteran Hard Mode Trial? Let alone a brand-new Veteran Hard Mode Trial?

Stopnaggin · November 2017

Erraln wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

how many of your friends got banned? Or was it just you?

Not me or anyone i know. Why are u defending zos for putting out broken content?

If someone chooses to drive 120mph on a residential street and gets their license suspended, should we be mad at the legal system for banning them? Or BMW for making the behavior possible?

Can != Should.

Not exactly the same. Was there a sign that said don't go here on the game where they could exploit it? Not to mention one should have serious consequences, the other really isn't going to cause damage to anyone or anything.

Turelus · November 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

how many of your friends got banned? Or was it just you?

Not me or anyone i know. Why are u defending zos for putting out broken content?

If someone chooses to drive 120mph on a residential street and gets their license suspended, should we be mad at the legal system for banning them? Or BMW for making the behavior possible?

Can != Should.

Not exactly the same. Was there a sign that said don't go here on the game where they could exploit it? Not to mention one should have serious consequences, the other really isn't going to cause damage to anyone or anything.

If you're killing a boss without any chance of it attacking you, you know you're not doing it as intended.

Have we really reached a point where gaming communities literally need signs to tell them when they're exploiting? I very much doubt the people who did this were stupid enough to believe it was working as intended.

Stopnaggin · November 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

how many of your friends got banned? Or was it just you?

Not me or anyone i know. Why are u defending zos for putting out broken content?

If someone chooses to drive 120mph on a residential street and gets their license suspended, should we be mad at the legal system for banning them? Or BMW for making the behavior possible?

Can != Should.

Not exactly the same. Was there a sign that said don't go here on the game where they could exploit it? Not to mention one should have serious consequences, the other really isn't going to cause damage to anyone or anything.

If you're killing a boss without any chance of it attacking you, you know you're not doing it as intended.

Have we really reached a point where gaming communities literally need signs to tell them when they're exploiting? I very much doubt the people who did this were stupid enough to believe it was working as intended.

Not the point and I agree they should be banned. But we are talking about something that could actually cause bodily injury compared to a game. I don't think an exploit in a video game is anywhere near the seriousness of the example given.

How about a professional video game company actually do some testing and we could avoid all this from the beginning. Again they should be banned, I think perma ban is a bit much if this a first offense, but it is what it is.

Zorvan · November 2017

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

TL;DR

Cry moar noob.

Turelus · November 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

how many of your friends got banned? Or was it just you?

Not me or anyone i know. Why are u defending zos for putting out broken content?

If someone chooses to drive 120mph on a residential street and gets their license suspended, should we be mad at the legal system for banning them? Or BMW for making the behavior possible?

Can != Should.

Not exactly the same. Was there a sign that said don't go here on the game where they could exploit it? Not to mention one should have serious consequences, the other really isn't going to cause damage to anyone or anything.

If you're killing a boss without any chance of it attacking you, you know you're not doing it as intended.

Have we really reached a point where gaming communities literally need signs to tell them when they're exploiting? I very much doubt the people who did this were stupid enough to believe it was working as intended.

Not the point and I agree they should be banned. But we are talking about something that could actually cause bodily injury compared to a game. I don't think an exploit in a video game is anywhere near the seriousness of the example given.

How about a professional video game company actually do some testing and we could avoid all this from the beginning. Again they should be banned, I think perma ban is a bit much if this a first offense, but it is what it is.

From what's being said in the other thread this wasn't a first offence for many of them.

Also yes the game should have less bugs, but the entire reason there is a ToS clause about exploiting is because bugs will go live, regardless of how much testing was done.
My understanding of this bug is also that it wasn't something like the mechanic not working, but an active effort to get the boss into a situation it could be attacked without risk to the group.

Docmandu · November 2017

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

Yeah can't blame that thief that robs your house empty because you forgot to lock your front door! Right? *sigh*

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

What exactly was the form of punishment that was delivered? A temporary suspension of said exploiter’s accounts, or was a “permanent” ban issued? Does anyone know, because if it was only a little 3 day slap on the wrist... That would solve nothing.

ChildOfLight · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

How about the last boss of Arx Corinium, is it an exploit to stand in the safe area the does not receive AoE damage? In vDSA final boss, is positioning to get one flame Atronach instead of four going to trigger the next round of bans? Which things are considered smart mechanics vs unintended exploits?

At this point I'd like to know if the vDSA positioning to get just one flame Atronach is considered one of the"boss mechanics" or an "exploit".

Always considered it a boss mechanic to be honest.

Robby94 · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Where is the line between mechanics and exploit though? No perma bans went out for all the groups standing on the rock on vHRC first boss to avoid damage (most didn't even know this was not intended until it was finally fixed recently). Or was kiting the Ozara adds out of the room in vSO an exploit? Seemed like a smart strategy to me until ZoS fixed it recently.

How about the last boss of Arx Corinium, is it an exploit to stand in the safe area the does not receive AoE damage? In vDSA final boss, is positioning to get one flame Atronach instead of four going to trigger the next round of bans? Which things are considered smart mechanics vs unintended exploits?

I don't know the specifics of the vAS exploit, maybe it was obviously cheating, maybe not, but I don't like the idea that finding safe locations in any boss encounter can lead to a ban.

Completely incorrect post because:
1. VHRC: The boss can still attack you! It was to avoid ONLY the little circles of aoe that fly around the ground (and most people I know never did this because it's trashy)
2. Kiting Ozara adds out of the room is a strategy! You have a 2nd tank who does it, who still needs to cope with those adds, be given heals and resources, etc. it is NOT AT ALL as if they cannot attack you! Ask any tank.
3. The last boss of Arx HAS A BABY PET who she literally tells to take cover and makes a shield over! It is a mechanic that you run to the baby for the shield! Not kill the baby, and have no shield. It is a planned mechanic.

You don't know what you are talking about at all.

There is a huge difference between attacking a boss through a door who cannot even attack you and intended mechanics and/or strategies.

While i agree with what your saying, they're still exploits. What id be interested to know is the criteria of bannable exploits vs. ignorable exploits. From what iv seen botting and ce seem ignorable but shortcuts are ban on sight.

Also off topic, hate to be that guy but thats not the last boss in arx.

Dragonnord · November 2017

Why some people that cheat/exploit get banned and some do not?

I can list dozens of exploit/cheating situations, worst than this one, where players were never banned.

Turelus · November 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Why some people that cheat/exploit get banned and some do not?

I can list dozens of exploit/cheating situations, worst than this one, where players were never banned.

Because ZOS have been bad at this in the past. Let's hope that this is a turning point and they're making moves to enforce the competitive side of the game.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Why some people that cheat/exploit get banned and some do not?

I can list dozens of exploit/cheating situations, worst than this one, where players were never banned.

Let’s not also forget that there was even a case where a certain popular PvP-oriented streamer had a ban actually lifted due to their online celebrity status. Even more ironic is that ZOS then proceeded with inviting this individual to their HQ to discuss the future direction of ESO. LOL! Only for this person to later on end-up quitting the game for the most part.

Liley · November 2017

LOL at the people who are defending the exploiters!

Just because the alarm system at a bank doesn't work, you aren't gonna go in there and steal all the money, are you?
So saying that it's all ZOS's fault is simply not true. Yes, there should be better testing. BUT it gives people NO right to exploit broken content.

Good move from ZOS to perma ban them. Makes people think twice next time, hopefully.

reesenorman · November 2017

This thread.

Demycilian · November 2017

I found i almost kinda feel sorry for them. In a game as wobbly as ESO its not hard to have your standards tested and compromised.

DarkAedin · November 2017

Damn look at this.
Still defending zos.
Have u even seen the threads just in the past week?
-Ps4 cannot even cyrodiil bc of infinite load screens.
-players unable to log into the game at all.
-CE rampant in pvp
-bot trains all over
-lag in pvp STILL HERE SINCE LIGHTING PATCH
-no sound in cyro
-broken master resto staff
-after patch: cp for regen and defense was broken as well as impen

Any many many more.

To let zos get away scott free with u defending them at this point is uber silly. Game so damn broken. But no. Blame players for finding something that should have been taken care of on the pts.
Yall are missing the big picture here by a mile, too focused on the wrongdoings of the players that ur missing the underlying factor: ZOS has yet to release a dlc that was not bug ridden. If zos listened to ptsers or had its own proper quality assurance then things like this wouldnt make it to live.

Zos is blaming these players for zos problem.
And by doing so, shifting the blame in ur eyes to the "offenders" of this bug rather then the persons who are responsable for the bug being in live version of the game in the first place.

And no, this situation is NOT the same as speeding ur car or going into an unlocked house to steal... jesus man the fact i have to say this really shows how uncommon common sense really is.

Stop defending zos when they are in the wrong. If u dont want players screwin up in the game, then the onus is on zos to put out content thats not fubard. PERIOD.
and no, im too busy in cyrodiil dealing with unplayable lag then trying to glitch bosses. And no, i dont know anyone who this happened to.
But. I am sore af at zos for coming down so hard on players for finding a glitch that should have NEVER made it to live had zos put in ANY qa effort for this patch.

TLDR: If they put the same effort into qa as they are with these exploit abusers, then they wouldnt have an exploit to abuse in the first place

TequilaFire · November 2017

The problem needed dealt with , and the worst offenders needed punished.
On the other hand it is sickening to see how mean and vindictive some of you are.

x_t7ink_x · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Bkella wrote: »

Isn’t this ZoS’s fault for having a bug in the game allowing people to kill a boss from a safe area?! How is that a bannable offense for those players if it is built into the game, you should be thanking them for doing some free beta testing and exposing a bug your dev team left out there......

Directly from the ToS

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

No pity given to those banned.
Good riddance to them.

Until they pay $30 for the game again, and create a new account.

In this case, not even that. They were on PS4, where you can create alt accounts for free. That said, their characters, gear, money spent on crowns... that's all gone, permanently. Which, you know what? That's fine. Someone was crying about how the hundreds they spent on the game went up in smoke for using the exploit.

Without naming shaming etc what server were they NA or EU