ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHINGInterview With Miat Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

Dorrino · October 2017

@DDuke

Break free itself lasts 250ms.

Block and skills are exactly on 1000ms cd after break free start.

Dodge looks like is on the same 250ms.

So looks like you're correct that dodge specifically behaves differently than skills/block and incorrect about no cooldown.

Easiest way to test if to use a simple addon that outputs timestamps for the start of break free and the start of the dodge.

I can share it, it's really simple.

So far, as i said above i agree that besides 250ms cd from break free there doesn't seem to be any additional cd for dodge.

Since you'll probably enjoy it i admit that i was factually wrong with the claim that 'break free creates a 1 sec cooldown for dodge specifically'. I apologize that i involuntary misled that part of the discussion and will do my best to avoid doing that in the future.

Nevertheless, the original clam was that in practice fear -> incap provides a reliable way to land the incap on any target.

So far we have (after you confirm 250ms break free cd) 250ms + 100ms (ping, lover bound) + 150ms reaction time (the lowest practical bound, chances are not a single person playing eso can provide this reaction time consistently) = 500ms. In absolute best case we get half a second unavoidable lag before dodge can start.

Now the most important claim that i already mentioned. Since it looks like you enjoy testing stuff, this is a perfect thing to test. I did multiple tests a year ago (and added a visual notification in my cc tracker), but it might be useful to have a 3rd party confirmation (or lack of it).

The claim goes as follows:

"The cooldown started by a dodge, a skill or both of them prevents using Break Free"

In other words if you're cc-ed 100ms into a dodge you won't be able to break free for the next 900ms.

My current understanding is that this mechanics specifically makes it reliable to land a hard hitting skill right after a cc.

In any practical fight people are constantly using skills and thus a re constantly in various phases of cd from those skills.

500ms average delay from those cds added to 500ms delay described above leads, in average perfect reaction case, to 1000ms delay to perform a dodge as a reaction to a break free and thus allows to reliably perform the combo above.

Note: skill or block instead of the dodge increase the 'reaction' part of the defense alone to ~1000ms, thus making this defense almost impossible.

Again, i think the whole eso community will benefit from a 3rd party validation of the claim above.

Ackwalan · October 2017

So many people turning their responses into essays. Almost like they are desperately trying to convince themselves they are not being cheesy.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Ackwalan wrote: »

So many people turning their responses into essays. Almost like they are desperately trying to convince themselves they are not being cheesy.

Addon owners comments summarized.

Ididnt like being ganked.
I made an add on that destroyed ranged combat styles
I did a service to the community by destroying builds for the community
My add on is awesome
I am awesome
Everyone who disagrees is not awesome and is wrong.

Repeat in a long diatribe about how awesome he and his add on is.

Ulfgarde · October 2017

Ackwalan wrote: »

So many people turning their responses into essays. Almost like they are desperately trying to convince themselves they are not being cheesy.

An intermission of internet arguments with a ton of back and forth serving no purpose in the event ZOS throws their end-all decision.

But it sure is easier to dismiss one side of the argument rather than partake, is it not?

Ackwalan · November 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

Any update on where you are at on this?

Zorvan · November 2017

Just ban the bum Miat and be done with it.

elijafire wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it is cheating or not. If you play PvP it is absolutely necessary to use macros and addons in order to have an even playing field.

Which is why the gaming world considers ESO pvp to be laughable at best and ignorable at worst.

reesenorman · November 2017

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Hmmmm, did not watch it, did not remotely care too, I completely agree with @DDuke and many others in the essence in that PvP Alerts is basically a hack, and it is really pathetic that so many players, some of which I know, use it and think it is ok.

And for all the wannabe hackers who think this crutch crap is ok and tries to flame me, good luck with that, right and wrong, this garbage is wrong, end of story.

L2P properly with those of us who fight with honour in PvP or duelling or BG, or gtfo.

Stay salty buddy.

Jade1986 · November 2017

reesenorman wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Hmmmm, did not watch it, did not remotely care too, I completely agree with @DDuke and many others in the essence in that PvP Alerts is basically a hack, and it is really pathetic that so many players, some of which I know, use it and think it is ok.

And for all the wannabe hackers who think this crutch crap is ok and tries to flame me, good luck with that, right and wrong, this garbage is wrong, end of story.

L2P properly with those of us who fight with honour in PvP or duelling or BG, or gtfo.

Stay salty buddy.

Pretty sure the only ppl that are salty are the people using this because they are salty over being ganked. So yeah.....

DDuke · November 2017

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

Any update on where you are at on this?

Waiting for API changes...

I was a little sad they weren't even mentioned in yesterday's ESO Live.

There also hasn't been anything posted on esoui.com, where ZOS communicates with addon developers.

@ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to know when we can roughly expect these changes. Next big update? Before that in an incremental patch? Any information would be nice, for many their ability to even enjoy PvP hinges on these changes

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

DDuke · November 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

So, a month and multiple incremental patches later... any idea when you'll be rolling out these API changes?

Karivaa · November 2017

Bottom line is that we on Xbox do not have add ons. Ppl got banned. Not cool.

Karivaa · November 2017

Bring our friends on Xbox back!

Tommy_The_Gun · November 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Waiting for API changes...

I am getting a feeling that by the time the API will be changed I will already be Grand Overlord rank II and I simply won't have any more reason to PvP ever again...

Mondini · November 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Reaction time

That's cute

cairo_x · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.

Wrong. ZOS is misunderstanding the concept of rule. Also, they are misunderstanding the concept of costumer. ZOS would be a serious company if they actually listen to the costumers and pay respect to the money we invest in this game. They can't just point out their stick and magically decide what is cheating or what is not. This Add on is indeed cheating because of the advantage it gives to certain players. You may argue that "well, why don't you use it then?" Moral. Some people have it, others hide behind breachers and weak rules created by people that apparently have no idea how to maintain an online game.

ClockworkCityBugs · November 2017

@cairo_x you think costumes in ESO might be better? or what i dont understand

Jade1986 · November 2017

cairo_x wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.

Wrong. ZOS is misunderstanding the concept of rule. Also, they are misunderstanding the concept of costumer. ZOS would be a serious company if they actually listen to the costumers and pay respect to the money we invest in this game. They can't just point out their stick and magically decide what is cheating or what is not. This Add on is indeed cheating because of the advantage it gives to certain players. You may argue that "well, why don't you use it then?" Moral. Some people have it, others hide behind breachers and weak rules created by people that apparently have no idea how to maintain an online game.

Plus the addon was never given zos's blessing.....in fact they recently came out and said they were not comfortable with it......so yeah....

But flash moves faster than zos does....

Feanor · November 2017

cairo_x wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.

Wrong. ZOS is misunderstanding the concept of rule. Also, they are misunderstanding the concept of costumer. ZOS would be a serious company if they actually listen to the costumers and pay respect to the money we invest in this game. They can't just point out their stick and magically decide what is cheating or what is not. This Add on is indeed cheating because of the advantage it gives to certain players. You may argue that "well, why don't you use it then?" Moral. Some people have it, others hide behind breachers and weak rules created by people that apparently have no idea how to maintain an online game.

If they’d listen to their customers we’d have a flood of nerfs and no balance. Oh wait...

Shardan4968 · November 2017

ZOS are waiting for long enough time to lock this as "draugr thread".

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

cairo_x wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Miat's addon is NOT cheating. ZOS is the league here, ZOS are the refs, ZOS sets the rules. If Miat's addon is allowed with ZOS's blessing, then it can in no way be cheating. Those that are calling it cheating are misunderstanding.

Wrong. ZOS is misunderstanding the concept of rule. Also, they are misunderstanding the concept of costumer. ZOS would be a serious company if they actually listen to the costumers and pay respect to the money we invest in this game. They can't just point out their stick and magically decide what is cheating or what is not. This Add on is indeed cheating because of the advantage it gives to certain players. You may argue that "well, why don't you use it then?" Moral. Some people have it, others hide behind breachers and weak rules created by people that apparently have no idea how to maintain an online game.

Unfortunately you are in the wrong. ESO is ZOS’s product and they can pretty much do whatever they want with it. Long ago ZOS looked into Miat’s addon, made some small tweaks to API, and then publicly stated that at the time they would be taking no further action. They never said using it was “cheating” or “exploiting”. ZOS allowed the use of the addon through having certain API accessable. You may disagree, but you can’t step in and call it cheating. ZOS sets the terms and rules for the game. Every time we login we are accepting ZOS’s terms and conditions and whatever state the game is in at the time.

It’s not cheating. It absolutely is super cheesy to use and I disagree with Miat’s logic on the matter. In another online game, maybe even more than just “another”, maybe many other online games, the developers would never allow something like this addon to stick around. But that’s not the reality for ESO at this time. We will see what happens down the road.

And you, me, and Braun Strowman can agree on that.

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KingMagaw · November 2017

Nothing still has been done....

kaiage · November 2017

Miat's addon is like steroids in any fighting league.

It probably shrinks your package too.

EDIT: It's funny because if you have to explain why it's not cheating it probably is. Kind of like how a joke that requires an explanation isn't funny.

Miat, your addon is a joke that requires an explanation.

Shardan4968 · November 2017

Please don't start this stupid and pointless disussion again. We just need ZOS response as they promised. No need to make another 30 pages of the same arguments.

geonsocal · November 2017

there just is no stopping this party train...

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2017

kaiage wrote: »

Miat's addon is like steroids in any fighting league.

It probably shrinks your package too.

EDIT: It's funny because if you have to explain why it's not cheating it probably is. Kind of like how a joke that requires an explanation isn't funny.

Miat, your addon is a joke that requires an explanation.

You did an lot of explaining in a statement about how explaining is bad...

I think we might be making a worm hole.

kessik221 · November 2017

just sitting here on ps4 eating my popcorn....yall butt hurt about add ons? come play console you'll never have to deal with em ever ever ever.

Palidon · November 2017

ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

Got to laugh at this threads title. Over 950 posts on this tread alone and several more on others complaining about Miats addon.

The addon is still being used and ZOS has done nothing about it except to say "We are looking into it".

Ackwalan · November 2017

Palidon wrote: »

ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

Got to laugh at this threads title. Over 950 posts on this tread alone and several more on others complaining about Miats addon.

The addon is still being used and ZOS has done nothing about it except to say "We are looking into it".

ZOS updated their opinion on it, they don't like it.

Feanor · November 2017

Whether it’s Sorc nerfs or Miat’s addon: Bad players will stay bad mo matter what, and instead of acknowledging and get better they still will complain about something else then.