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the cheesy Combat & Character Mechanics
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭charley222 wrote: »GandalfTheGrey wrote: »charley222 wrote: »ok i`m suppose to use pot before i get gank ???how i`m suppose to know i get gank lolol ? this make a lot of sense or after my first gank where i`m already half dead
i suppose to dont use health potion but potion too see him lol and after he will fear me lolol and everyone know how the cc is buggy yea this make a lot of sense , let me guess you dont play nb lolol , sure player exploiting all this broken cheesy stuff dont want this to be fix
...The whole point of Nightblades is to gank. Taking away their ability to gank and sneak burst kills the point of the class. They're supposed to one shot you or die trying, and supposed to run away from large encounters, which is why cloak needs to be spammable. Why do you think so many Stamblades go for bow gank builds, and so many MagBlades went for Bombblades, literally group gankers?
What do you think a stealth class is for? Why do you think people play stealth classes?
Attack -> Deal high damage -> succeed, or fail, at killing -> run away, spamming cloak until you're safe. This is how NB is supposed to be played. Well, that, and maybe a heavy life drain build.
just read what your saying lol so nb suppose to be supreme and have also buggy skill oh
ok lol
now i see player in cyrodiil just accept defeat and run and also see group of player stop chasing NB because how broken the class , i guess you have enough video on youtube to show how this class is broken lol takecare guy enjoy your spamming Shadow Cloak and broken cc fear i need to go
L2P
sorry, but you deserve it.
And the best way to learn how to deal with NBs is L2P NBSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »Hate to say it OP but have to agree with the l2p responses.
But I am sure ZoS will listen to yet another no skill player and nerf things accordingly without lesser players learning how to counter shizzle yet again....
np man
just looking your name is easy to understand , you like to exploit this buggy skill , everyone here not agree , are still agree the to cc fear is buggy lol also the reply ltp is very free because you bring nothing to on the table to hold what you saying
Buggy skill?
Please, try to play as a NB using cloak for escaping mechanics.
As a NB I can tell you 2 skills that kill me most of the time:
1- Piercing mark
2- Radiant magelight
besides , there is that "detection pot" that allows not only you see the NB, but also your entire group.
The skill is broken by almost everything in this game, incuding gap closers.
Anyway, if you run with a group, just make sure at least one of your partners is running detect pots (Can be the tankiest one). If you are running solo, just slot radiant
Pretty much this. The ONLY time you can even claim cloak comes close to over-performing in PvP is in a 1v1 duel situation. In Cyrodiil, there are always so many counters to your cloak roaming around that it's almost a joke to try and use it as an escape mechanic. And even in a group battle you are almost guaranteed to be pulled out by AOE's or someones immov/detect pot.1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fighting assassins in this game is like when Dutch and his team had to fight the Predator. The Predator didn't really have better skills he just had better gear. This game is insane with the high sustain plus high damage class/builds. It doesn't make sense to me how people can go for massive damage yet not be squishy.Edited by Dr_Ganknstein on November 10, 2017 6:19PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fighting assassins in this game is like when Dutch and his team had to fight the Predator. The Predator didn't really have better skills he just had better gear. This game is insane with the high sustain plus high damage class/builds. It doesn't make sense to me how people can go for massive damage yet not be squishy.
Such a good movie...
However, nothing compares to Arnold's magicka machete.
Watch when he pulls it out of his boot and says, "stick around" (after he throws it through a guy)
He literally pulls a pocket knife and it magically becomes a full length machete mid air!3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »
Hey, if the combo of Shadow Cloak, the cc from Fear and whatever damage the ganker is doing is killing you before you can reply, here's a couple of ideas that don't require you to be a great PVP player - aka, I use them, and I'm far from great.- Raise your crit resistance with CP and impentrable trait gear. Gankers already get bonuses from stealth, no need to hand them more crit damage on top of that.
- Get more health. Sure you are going to die eventually if you can't fight back effectively, but increased health might get you past the "1-2 combo, dead" phase that seems to have you stuck. If you are squishy, don't be surprised when hard-hitting players squish you like a ripe grape. Most PVP is about burst, so you have to survive that initial burst in order to turn the tables.
- Slot defensive skills and use them when you think a ganker is nearby. On my magDK, I should use Volatile Armor when I'm in ganker territory before I get hit, not after.
- Be aware of your surroundings. Gankers like to lurk in traveled areas and hit players that are solo or on the edges of the bigger groups. "Don't be last" is how my raid leads put it. If you are alone in ganker territory, prepare yourself to get hit and be ready to response quickly.
I play a magDK healer in PVP, and those worked for me to be able to survive the first attack so I can at least respond to the ganker.
Ganking is a fine playstyle that, like every other playstyle in Cyrodiil, has things that it does really well and things it does poorly. Gankers build for burst, so first and foremost, you have to survive their burst before you can respond with your own CCs, magelight detect, and damage abilities. and here's what everyone is trying to tell you as I am going to: If you aren't surviving a ganker's first burst damage, the problem is that your build needs more survivability not that their skills/tactics/combos are "broken".3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »charley222 wrote: »
Hey, if the combo of Shadow Cloak, the cc from Fear and whatever damage the ganker is doing is killing you before you can reply, here's a couple of ideas that don't require you to be a great PVP player - aka, I use them, and I'm far from great.- Raise your crit resistance with CP and impentrable trait gear. Gankers already get bonuses from stealth, no need to hand them more crit damage on top of that.
- Get more health. Sure you are going to die eventually if you can't fight back effectively, but increased health might get you past the "1-2 combo, dead" phase that seems to have you stuck. If you are squishy, don't be surprised when hard-hitting players squish you like a ripe grape. Most PVP is about burst, so you have to survive that initial burst in order to turn the tables.
- Slot defensive skills and use them when you think a ganker is nearby. On my magDK, I should use Volatile Armor when I'm in ganker territory before I get hit, not after.
- Be aware of your surroundings. Gankers like to lurk in traveled areas and hit players that are solo or on the edges of the bigger groups. "Don't be last" is how my raid leads put it. If you are alone in ganker territory, prepare yourself to get hit and be ready to response quickly.
I play a magDK healer in PVP, and those worked for me to be able to survive the first attack so I can at least respond to the ganker.
Ganking is a fine playstyle that, like every other playstyle in Cyrodiil, has things that it does really well and things it does poorly. Gankers build for burst, so first and foremost, you have to survive their burst before you can respond with your own CCs, magelight detect, and damage abilities. and here's what everyone is trying to tell you as I am going to: If you aren't surviving a ganker's first burst damage, the problem is that your build needs more survivability not that their skills/tactics/combos are "broken".
The problem with this philosophy is it becomes ganker or survive ganker with no in between.
Either you're a tank, or an NB. It drives away medium armor builds from open combat to ganking.
It's like saying, if you're medium armor either cloak or use heavy armor against Soul Assault4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭See, I'd say its more "become tanky enough that you die about as often as you are comfortable with". Its a sliding scale because everyone dies in Cyrodiil.
If you are dying more than you like, either adjust your playstyle as it is right now (the "git gud" method) or become tankier until you learn how to effectively counter whatever is killing you and can then bring that knowledge back to your original build if you want to.
I did something similar with my MagDK Healer. In small group and PUG play, she was dying a lot, so I put her in Plague Doctor. All of a sudden, I was surviving longer, so I got to learn more about how to effective (and ineffectively) counter enemies who before would have killed me before I learned anything. I've taken that knowledge, so that now when I'm back in my light armor build that's about 10k less health, I'm still effective. Becoming tanky allowed me to learn the skills I needed in order to not be tanky.
If the "git gud" method isn't working, whether that's because the deaths are frustrating or players are getting killed too quick to actually learn something from it aside from which skills killed them, I absolutely recommend that players get tankier - as long as they are learning from that experience. That extra health buffer lets players make mistakes and learn what works and what doesn't, allowing them to be better players when they don't have that health buffer. Eventually, as it did in my case, the goal is for player skill to substitute for that extra tankiness, but sometimes the tankiness is necessary for the player to acquire skill int he first place.4 -
charley222✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »GandalfTheGrey wrote: »charley222 wrote: »ok i`m suppose to use pot before i get gank ???how i`m suppose to know i get gank lolol ? this make a lot of sense or after my first gank where i`m already half dead
i suppose to dont use health potion but potion too see him lol and after he will fear me lolol and everyone know how the cc is buggy yea this make a lot of sense , let me guess you dont play nb lolol , sure player exploiting all this broken cheesy stuff dont want this to be fix
...The whole point of Nightblades is to gank. Taking away their ability to gank and sneak burst kills the point of the class. They're supposed to one shot you or die trying, and supposed to run away from large encounters, which is why cloak needs to be spammable. Why do you think so many Stamblades go for bow gank builds, and so many MagBlades went for Bombblades, literally group gankers?
What do you think a stealth class is for? Why do you think people play stealth classes?
Attack -> Deal high damage -> succeed, or fail, at killing -> run away, spamming cloak until you're safe. This is how NB is supposed to be played. Well, that, and maybe a heavy life drain build.
just read what your saying lol so nb suppose to be supreme and have also buggy skill oh ok lol
now i see player in cyrodiil just accept defeat and run and also see group of player stop chasing NB because how broken the class , i guess you have enough video on youtube to show how this class is broken lol takecare guy enjoy your spamming Shadow Cloak and broken cc fear i need to go
L2P
sorry, but you deserve it.
And the best way to learn how to deal with NBs is L2P NB
lol your funny
i guess the one who need to ltp is you because everyone know the damage of MacroSlice
fear Macro =dead ltp lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S2w4fBktE0
fear macroslice =deadEdited by charley222 on November 12, 2017 12:32AMthe wall of the covenant0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Macros are entirely different from regular players using nightblade skills effectively. If your problem was people using macros to kill you, why didn't you just say so? We'd all have agreed that macro using is a poor substitute for actual pvp skill and been done with it.
But no, you had to call for nightblade nerfs.5 -
charley222 wrote: »Don't break PvE by complaining about PvP
i understand your worry because how eso fix stuff sometime affect pve
is just some good player abuse some broken stuff and build character around this and optimise this broken stuff , make the gameplay very lame , but if eso fix this well is not suppose to affect pve
because i dont use broken Mechanics and solo some veteran stuff
I have been to cyri all of maybe we'll say 24 hours since early launch 3 years ago, and don't understand why I had to respec, rechampion point, restat, my toons because zos heard one too mant complaints like this, do I think there are things that could be better yes, do I think their so many combat, and game mechanic "fixes" no. You just stand their and push buttons your gonna die, dont utilize all their is to offer such as detect potions, food etc, cant get your fingers to do the "rotation" everyone and their crazy aunt sue thinks you need on your bar. I'm sorry for you PVP is hard thats why I PVE is cause I didn't want some cookie cutter build, ganging me trying to get the book lying right in front of me.
Further FYI Show me an MMO/MMORPG that has a completely "Fair" PVP and I show you a unicorn. You always have better and bigger players trying to kill other players. As a previous eso fan Zos could have totally left that area out. I Personally think it would be a lot better game and do what they are trying to promote this weekend. Community and Teamwork0 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »nb spamming Shadow Cloak = ok here list of issue
1- what is make any sense i use some DOT(damage over time) but is useless because you just have to spam Shadow Cloak
2- NB are able to engage the balltle and always leave safely spamming Shadow Cloak , so this result so you get gank to dead because nb recharge potion fear and Death Stroke
what i feel stupid is everything is safe
3- last time i see over 15 player 690 cp running after 1 nb spamming Shadow Cloak already there you know something not working right , is just lame to watch
1) But every tick breaks cloak. So they're wasting resources. Were you around when one of the cloak morphs was actually useful and removed negative effects? Glory days...
2) Well that was the idea, but these days there is no guarantees. A blade of grass is turned the wrong way or some one sneezes and cloak breaks.
3) I don't think that happens a lot, see last point...
Cloak is a fraction of what it used to be. People cried so much, that a class defining ability has been nerfed into being left off bars more and more.
Lets just have one class, no levels, no attributes, same 5 skills, no armor, no weapons, because people will complain about something they can't do forever.Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »nb spamming Shadow Cloak = ok here list of issue
1- what is make any sense i use some DOT(damage over time) but is useless because you just have to spam Shadow Cloak
2- NB are able to engage the balltle and always leave safely spamming Shadow Cloak , so this result so you get gank to dead because nb recharge potion fear and Death Stroke
what i feel stupid is everything is safe
3- last time i see over 15 player 690 cp running after 1 nb spamming Shadow Cloak already there you know something not working right , is just lame to watch
1) But every tick breaks cloak. So they're wasting resources. Were you around when one of the cloak morphs was actually useful and removed negative effects? Glory days...
2) Well that was the idea, but these days there is no guarantees. A blade of grass is turned the wrong way or some one sneezes and cloak breaks.
3) I don't think that happens a lot, see last point...
Cloak is a fraction of what it used to be. People cried so much, that a class defining ability has been nerfed into being left off bars more and more.
Lets just have one class, no levels, no attributes, same 5 skills, no armor, no weapons, because people will complain about something they can't do forever.
Are you implying mNB is somehow weak?
Arguably one of the best classes atm, cloak or no cloak.0 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Are you implying mNB is somehow weak?
Arguably one of the best classes atm, cloak or no cloak.
Not all, just saying people crying over cloak don't really have anything to cry about... it's the "I win" button it's often made out to be.
Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm still waiting to find out what class the op plays. It's obvious they have never played as a nb though if they think cloak is some I win button. Cloak gets broken or negated quite easily and very often.
Out of curiosity, how would the op like an assassin class to play? Standing out in the open going toe to toe with other classes where they have little chance at success?There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »charley222 wrote: »
Hey, if the combo of Shadow Cloak, the cc from Fear and whatever damage the ganker is doing is killing you before you can reply, here's a couple of ideas that don't require you to be a great PVP player - aka, I use them, and I'm far from great.- Raise your crit resistance with CP and impentrable trait gear. Gankers already get bonuses from stealth, no need to hand them more crit damage on top of that.
- Get more health. Sure you are going to die eventually if you can't fight back effectively, but increased health might get you past the "1-2 combo, dead" phase that seems to have you stuck. If you are squishy, don't be surprised when hard-hitting players squish you like a ripe grape. Most PVP is about burst, so you have to survive that initial burst in order to turn the tables.
- Slot defensive skills and use them when you think a ganker is nearby. On my magDK, I should use Volatile Armor when I'm in ganker territory before I get hit, not after.
- Be aware of your surroundings. Gankers like to lurk in traveled areas and hit players that are solo or on the edges of the bigger groups. "Don't be last" is how my raid leads put it. If you are alone in ganker territory, prepare yourself to get hit and be ready to response quickly.
I play a magDK healer in PVP, and those worked for me to be able to survive the first attack so I can at least respond to the ganker.
Ganking is a fine playstyle that, like every other playstyle in Cyrodiil, has things that it does really well and things it does poorly. Gankers build for burst, so first and foremost, you have to survive their burst before you can respond with your own CCs, magelight detect, and damage abilities. and here's what everyone is trying to tell you as I am going to: If you aren't surviving a ganker's first burst damage, the problem is that your build needs more survivability not that their skills/tactics/combos are "broken".
The problem with this philosophy is it becomes ganker or survive ganker with no in between.
Either you're a tank, or an NB. It drives away medium armor builds from open combat to ganking.
It's like saying, if you're medium armor either cloak or use heavy armor against Soul Assault
Not really... a nice work I've found in cyro is counterganker. Whenever there's a call for a ganker, I go there and do what Blade does to vamps.
It is really fun to gank the ganker. That piercing mark is really, really annoyingSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭charley222 wrote: »charley222 wrote: »GandalfTheGrey wrote: »charley222 wrote: »ok i`m suppose to use pot before i get gank ???how i`m suppose to know i get gank lolol ? this make a lot of sense or after my first gank where i`m already half dead
i suppose to dont use health potion but potion too see him lol and after he will fear me lolol and everyone know how the cc is buggy yea this make a lot of sense , let me guess you dont play nb lolol , sure player exploiting all this broken cheesy stuff dont want this to be fix
...The whole point of Nightblades is to gank. Taking away their ability to gank and sneak burst kills the point of the class. They're supposed to one shot you or die trying, and supposed to run away from large encounters, which is why cloak needs to be spammable. Why do you think so many Stamblades go for bow gank builds, and so many MagBlades went for Bombblades, literally group gankers?
What do you think a stealth class is for? Why do you think people play stealth classes?
Attack -> Deal high damage -> succeed, or fail, at killing -> run away, spamming cloak until you're safe. This is how NB is supposed to be played. Well, that, and maybe a heavy life drain build.
just read what your saying lol so nb suppose to be supreme and have also buggy skill oh ok lol
now i see player in cyrodiil just accept defeat and run and also see group of player stop chasing NB because how broken the class , i guess you have enough video on youtube to show how this class is broken lol takecare guy enjoy your spamming Shadow Cloak and broken cc fear i need to go
L2P
sorry, but you deserve it.
And the best way to learn how to deal with NBs is L2P NB
lol your funny
i guess the one who need to ltp is you because everyone know the damage of MacroSlice
fear Macro =dead ltp lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S2w4fBktE0
fear macroslice =dead
ehm, no.
As a NB you don't need to macroslice fear, you just need to learn how to make a good combo and how to react.
For example, on my mageblade I'm working with this: Full heavy attack > Destro reach > Bar Swap > Lotus Fan > CW > Soul Harvest.
Works 75% of the time. There are times in which that rotation doesnt work so you have to change the way you attack. Using cripple to dmg stam or funnel health if attacking hard enemies is a decision you can't preview when macroing.
Off course, it doesn't mean there's no macroslicing (nobody knows that, except the ones who do it), and even if that exist, I feel that working on my on way is way better that leaving those decisions to a machineSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Are you implying mNB is somehow weak?
Arguably one of the best classes atm, cloak or no cloak.
Not all, just saying people crying over cloak don't really have anything to cry about... it's the "I win" button it's often made out to be.
Anyone that whines about cloak being overpowered has either never played a NB or are trolling. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE DOT and EVERY SINGLE AOE ABILITY will pull you out. If you allow a NB to cloak and get away from you or behind you then you are either not keeping up enough pressure or reacting quickly enough when they cloak. Furthermore, any DOT that you can actually cloak through, will still be damaging you the entire time you are in cloak unless you purge for an extremely high magic cost. If you are on a stamblade that purge isn't even an option because after the purge you will have no magicka to cloak.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The real problem with gankers is that there is no counterPLAY.
You can tank up, as are doing oh so many in this meta. But then your armor does the work, not you. This is exactly why we wanted proc sets nerfed. Ignoring this in regards to gankers is hypocrisy.
Then, they're often not alone. Even when you're decently defensive, two or three guys jumping you with instant burst is a threat. And the last part is important, as gankers more than any other build, exploit how most defenses in this game are ACTIVE and useless if you're uncapable to perform them (stunned, surprised, on horse, etc....).
And what if they fail? They have an easy time to run away while you're breaking free and healing, don't kid yourself. They can often even have an acceptable open fight, if they're not too specialized.
And what do we have? The ganked? A stronger build... that they just avoid. Can we reveal a whole area just by clicking a button to force our open terms on them? Like they just enter stealth anywhere on the map? Nope. We have pots and skills, but they are SUPER close range and often plain bugged.
No, this isn't a fair concept. It's not gamebreaking at the moment, used to be. But unless you go counter-gank, becoming a ganker yourself, there is way too much reward for the ganker and too little for the ganked who survives.
One could re-work stealth mechanics to not keep you stealthed infinitely, but permanently draining your stamina. So the longer you cherry-pick, the more risk you run to lose resouces.
Or put a penalty on you after being revealed. Less damage in open combat, or a delay until you can re-stealth. Can only stealth in dark places. Something like that.
Stealth is just a very frustrating mechanic in PvP environments, that has proven again and again. Take shooters. Everyone lives sniping players without fear of counterplay, but everyone hates being sniped.
I don't think that ganking is a problem at the moment in ESO, but I can absolutely understand people on the receiving end being angry.
"L2P" surely isn't sound advice for countering a build that focuses on giving no counterplay at all.
Now, can I have a cookie?
=31 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The real problem with gankers is that there is no counterPLAY.
You can tank up, as are doing oh so many in this meta. But then your armor does the work, not you. This is exactly why we wanted proc sets nerfed. Ignoring this in regards to gankers is hypocrisy.
Then, they're often not alone. Even when you're decently defensive, two or three guys jumping you with instant burst is a threat. And the last part is important, as gankers more than any other build, exploit how most defenses in this game are ACTIVE and useless if you're uncapable to perform them (stunned, surprised, on horse, etc....).
And what if they fail? They have an easy time to run away while you're breaking free and healing, don't kid yourself. They can often even have an acceptable open fight, if they're not too specialized.
And what do we have? The ganked? A stronger build... that they just avoid. Can we reveal a whole area just by clicking a button to force our open terms on them? Like they just enter stealth anywhere on the map? Nope. We have pots and skills, but they are SUPER close range and often plain bugged.
No, this isn't a fair concept. It's not gamebreaking at the moment, used to be. But unless you go counter-gank, becoming a ganker yourself, there is way too much reward for the ganker and too little for the ganked who survives.
One could re-work stealth mechanics to not keep you stealthed infinitely, but permanently draining your stamina. So the longer you cherry-pick, the more risk you run to lose resouces.
Or put a penalty on you after being revealed. Less damage in open combat, or a delay until you can re-stealth. Can only stealth in dark places. Something like that.
Stealth is just a very frustrating mechanic in PvP environments, that has proven again and again. Take shooters. Everyone lives sniping players without fear of counterplay, but everyone hates being sniped.
I don't think that ganking is a problem at the moment in ESO, but I can absolutely understand people on the receiving end being angry.
"L2P" surely isn't sound advice for countering a build that focuses on giving no counterplay at all.
Now, can I have a cookie?
=3
You say there is no counter-play yet mention detect pots so you clearly know there is counter-play. Cloak has many other counters such as DOT and AOE abilities but those aren't very useful unless you see the NB before they cloak. But you are complaining about being ganked when you cannot see the NB first correct? Well idk what to tell you but you can be ganked by someone just being crouched. Cloak is not even needed and is only used to guarantee a crit strike. If you are dying before you can fight back then you are not reacting quickly enough. Break free from the incap faster. Your reaction time is key. You've already stated that you do not want to change your gear to make yourself less susceptible to ganking so i don't know what else you want. Sounds like you want the ability to crouch and go in to stealth to be removed from the game all together. This would essentially make the Nightblade, more specifically a stamblade, an obsolete class in PvP. There are many counters to stealth you just don't seem to want to use them.
Edit: moving in sneak already takes up stamina and your other suggestions of damage reduction for cloak etc. would nerf NB off the cliff.Edited by Apache_Kid on December 4, 2017 5:12PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What? Where have I said -> I <- am struggling? I have already adapted my gear, and think I found a compromise to not stunt my combat prowess too much just to counter a specific build (looking at you, Soul Assault). During the loading screen crisis, one of my favorite pastimes was to flush those incompetent keep crouchers out of hiding and onebang them. Those fools that crutch on dodge spam have been in for a rude awakening when my Rune Cage forced them to eat my Meteor.
Who here doesn't want to adapt, heh?
Dpots and stuff is all dandy after you survived the gank - which is my point. You HAVE to let the first burst happen until you can react. Proper gank squads already have you on the floor by then. But even if they don't, it just feels frustrating to have them do their thing and you must let it happen.
And don't argue that breaking free from glitchy Incap and getting your defenses up happens so fast you can chase after gankers in time. Only if they continue attacking can you catch up. Mind you, Magelight and Dpots have a two meter range after stealth passives, while you are snared and they have probably Major Expedition up. Good luck.
Also, don't pretend NBs would be super weak in Cyro. They are no gods anymore, but they are far from weak. Permanent stam drain (while also immobile) in sneak would simply reduce your total sneak time. I think Stamblades can deal with that. And the way I see a highly theoretical "open combat penalty" would be only after you initiated a gank attempt. Maybe one morph of Cloak could give you the Minor Force buff from the current passive for three seconds, but you'd receive Minor Fracture/Breech for three seconds after being revealed. Something to specialize. You get the idea.0 -
charley222✭✭✭✭i just fight 1 night blade , i know already what is going to do so i`m prepare to smash bash to break free but any chance is not working
1- fear me animation cancel heavy attack 2- Incapacitating Strike 3-Surprise Attack 4-Surprise Attack 5-Killer's Blade = dead
i have 32k life 7 piece heavy oh he make all this using macro is just sad people working on the game are not able to fix bug and exploitEdited by charley222 on December 5, 2017 6:16AMthe wall of the covenant0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I do to bash and break free are totally different. Did you change your default settings for that?
1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What? Where have I said -> I <- am struggling? I have already adapted my gear, and think I found a compromise to not stunt my combat prowess too much just to counter a specific build (looking at you, Soul Assault). During the loading screen crisis, one of my favorite pastimes was to flush those incompetent keep crouchers out of hiding and onebang them. Those fools that crutch on dodge spam have been in for a rude awakening when my Rune Cage forced them to eat my Meteor.
Who here doesn't want to adapt, heh?
Dpots and stuff is all dandy after you survived the gank - which is my point. You HAVE to let the first burst happen until you can react. Proper gank squads already have you on the floor by then. But even if they don't, it just feels frustrating to have them do their thing and you must let it happen.
And don't argue that breaking free from glitchy Incap and getting your defenses up happens so fast you can chase after gankers in time. Only if they continue attacking can you catch up. Mind you, Magelight and Dpots have a two meter range after stealth passives, while you are snared and they have probably Major Expedition up. Good luck.
Also, don't pretend NBs would be super weak in Cyro. They are no gods anymore, but they are far from weak. Permanent stam drain (while also immobile) in sneak would simply reduce your total sneak time. I think Stamblades can deal with that. And the way I see a highly theoretical "open combat penalty" would be only after you initiated a gank attempt. Maybe one morph of Cloak could give you the Minor Force buff from the current passive for three seconds, but you'd receive Minor Fracture/Breech for three seconds after being revealed. Something to specialize. You get the idea.
They aren't weak but what you are suggesting will make them the weakest class by far since you want to nerf their biggest strength. Yeah if you're targeted by a "gank squad" you're probably going to die and you should die in a situation where you are out-numbered and they get the benefit of first strike. I break free from incaps more than alot as well. Yeah it's tough but it sounds like you just need to be more aware. If you're sitting on your siege and never backing out to look around and see your surroundings then you deserve to get ganked. You're trying to nerf the one thing that makes the class unique and effective when it's already been nerfed exponentially. Cloak used to actually be useful because it could purge. That is no longer the case. Now it is only usable if no one sees you go into cloak because there are a million and one counters and you can't purge DOT while in there so it's not even like you can use that time to regen resources if your opponent is mildly competent enough to put a little bit of pressure on you.0 -
DosPanchos✭✭✭Earthgore is OP and it requires $$ so...
Who wants to run see invis pots? So lame...0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DosPanchos wrote: »Earthgore is OP and it requires $$ so...
Who wants to run see invis pots? So lame...
Most people run immovable pots anyways which you can make with detect...0 -
Gan Xing✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Are you implying mNB is somehow weak?
Arguably one of the best classes atm, cloak or no cloak.
Not all, just saying people crying over cloak don't really have anything to cry about... it's the "I win" button it's often made out to be.
Anyone that whines about cloak being overpowered has either never played a NB or are trolling. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE DOT and EVERY SINGLE AOE ABILITY will pull you out. If you allow a NB to cloak and get away from you or behind you then you are either not keeping up enough pressure or reacting quickly enough when they cloak. Furthermore, any DOT that you can actually cloak through, will still be damaging you the entire time you are in cloak unless you purge for an extremely high magic cost. If you are on a stamblade that purge isn't even an option because after the purge you will have no magicka to cloak.
I wish I could just agree with this, but countless times I've thrown multiple dots on nbs (this patch) and just watch Miss, miss miss miss appear where they were. And this is against stamblades too. I can already guess that they just used cloak every time the dot was about to hit (so every 2 sec), and then invis pot to stay invisible after they ran out of magicka and the dot was used up.charley222 wrote: »i just fight 1 night blade , i know already what is going to do so i`m prepare to smash bash to break free but any chance is not working
1- fear me animation cancel heavy attack 2- Incapacitating Strike 3-Surprise Attack 4-Surprise Attack 5-Killer's Blade = dead
i have 32k life 7 piece heavy oh he make all this using macro is just sad people working on the game are not able to fix bug and exploit
Yea, you still need to run Impen. Chances are, the NB has solid penetration (and surprise attack also reduces your resistances)
There is also such thing as Roll dodge. As a NB, i've fought good players who, despite getting surprised by my HA, still broke free and rolldodged before my Incap.
Also the video you posted, that guy wasn't using a macro, he was animation cancelling. There IS a difference. I've seen macros, and I knew a nb who used a macro when he used to play. Granted, he could only play with one hand as he only had 1 hand, but he mostly used it as a way to get all his buffs ready before sniping.
Sometimes what seems like a insta kill is you lagging. It has happened to me, where I get hit by a bunch of things at once while I had a ping spike. For a while a few players would intentionally cause lag with some lag switch (they did this in For Honor as well).
Either way, i'm telling you to L2P. Complain all you want in game, but you still gotta l2p against NBs...Gan Xing - Crafting Nightblade
Elrana Tinuviel - Hybrid Dragonknight
Elentári Peregrine - Sorcerer "bank"
Rán Xīng - Hybrid Templar
Laurïsil Imlachwen - Stamina Templar
Helotë Tinuviel - Hybrid/Magicka Warden
Odin banker - obv banker
Yan of the Red Mountain - lvl 3 DK - not sure when I will work on em
Seeks the unusual and unique playstyles...0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Are you implying mNB is somehow weak?
Arguably one of the best classes atm, cloak or no cloak.
Not all, just saying people crying over cloak don't really have anything to cry about... it's the "I win" button it's often made out to be.
Anyone that whines about cloak being overpowered has either never played a NB or are trolling. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE DOT and EVERY SINGLE AOE ABILITY will pull you out. If you allow a NB to cloak and get away from you or behind you then you are either not keeping up enough pressure or reacting quickly enough when they cloak. Furthermore, any DOT that you can actually cloak through, will still be damaging you the entire time you are in cloak unless you purge for an extremely high magic cost. If you are on a stamblade that purge isn't even an option because after the purge you will have no magicka to cloak.
I wish I could just agree with this, but countless times I've thrown multiple dots on nbs (this patch) and just watch Miss, miss miss miss appear where they were. And this is against stamblades too. I can already guess that they just used cloak every time the dot was about to hit (so every 2 sec), and then invis pot to stay invisible after they ran out of magicka and the dot was used up.charley222 wrote: »i just fight 1 night blade , i know already what is going to do so i`m prepare to smash bash to break free but any chance is not working
1- fear me animation cancel heavy attack 2- Incapacitating Strike 3-Surprise Attack 4-Surprise Attack 5-Killer's Blade = dead
i have 32k life 7 piece heavy oh he make all this using macro is just sad people working on the game are not able to fix bug and exploit
Yea, you still need to run Impen. Chances are, the NB has solid penetration (and surprise attack also reduces your resistances)
There is also such thing as Roll dodge. As a NB, i've fought good players who, despite getting surprised by my HA, still broke free and rolldodged before my Incap.
Also the video you posted, that guy wasn't using a macro, he was animation cancelling. There IS a difference. I've seen macros, and I knew a nb who used a macro when he used to play. Granted, he could only play with one hand as he only had 1 hand, but he mostly used it as a way to get all his buffs ready before sniping.
Sometimes what seems like a insta kill is you lagging. It has happened to me, where I get hit by a bunch of things at once while I had a ping spike. For a while a few players would intentionally cause lag with some lag switch (they did this in For Honor as well).
Either way, i'm telling you to L2P. Complain all you want in game, but you still gotta l2p against NBs...
I wish I could fight you then. I constantly get pulled out of cloak from every ability under the sun.0 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So just nerf anything you can’t figure out how to play against.
lolololol, no thanks last scrub!0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭[quote="
nb spamming Shadow Cloak = ok here list of issue
1- what is make any sense i use some DOT(damage over time) but is useless because you just have to spam Shadow Cloak
2- NB are able to engage the balltle and always leave safely spamming Shadow Cloak , so this result so you get gank to dead because nb recharge potion fear and Death Stroke
what i feel stupid is everything is safe
3- last time i see over 15 player 690 cp running after 1 nb spamming Shadow Cloak already there you know something not working right , is just lame to watch
my next issue is nb Aspect of Terror i`m full life heavy around 30k health i smash and spam bash but the time i get fear i get stun a most 2 or 3 sec so i`m dead , because the combo
the fist rush attack is from Shadow Cloak fear Death Stroke and spam Reverse Slash to the dead or 2 Veiled Strike and Assassin's Blade , my feeling is so safe free and easy oh if is not work NP go back to spamming Shadow Cloak Oo and kill it idk but this combat Mechanics look very cheesy to me ,
ok my next issue now the only think you see in cyrodiil EYE OF FLAME
is player stacking eye of flame , so funny guy you let this happen you dont learn from your past mistake ??? also what is make this more funny you put some AOE CAP but you let this running try to make sense of this Oo
ok next dk Perma-blocking i see you already work on it reducing the option of Tava's Favor but in my book the final fix is to balance the monster set Blood Spawn btw this set is call blood and have any leech of blood try to figure out
[/quote]
Only magblades have this kind of dot resistance... but AOE brings u right out of stealth so use aoe/magelight/detect pots
The issue with fear you're experiencing is the lag. It happens, youll get used to it
Eye of the Destro Staff is a joke... start running from the guy, then make a 180 degree turn or dodge roll toward him, then run thru the eye of whatever. I have never died from this unless its in a choke point (which is my fault for not expected mass AOE at every bottleneck.
In pvp, your goal should always be to find the weakest target and kill it. DKs are usually not that target so unless you are a magblade or templar with purify, just avoid fighting it much like how people avoid fighting templars stacking health and using sun shield.
cheers 0 -
Zordrage✭✭✭✭✭NBs should not have so easy time getting away from everything...
spammable stealth is just broken no matter the game....1