Stam DK is Dead!

Jaybe_Mawfaka · November 2017

Better to create another #buffsorc thread, it will get way more attention since there are no stamdks left with some constructive feedback, everyone rerolled magsorc, stamblade or stamwarden years ago lmao.

BohnT · November 2017

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Better to create another #buffsorc thread, it will get way more attention since there are no stamdks left with some constructive feedback, everyone rerolled magsorc, stamblade or stamwarden years ago lmao.

It's true the amount of decent stamdks is below 20 on PC EU and by decent i mean ppl who last longer than 20 seconds in duels or can tank 3 randoms in cyro.
There is simply no reason to use it, the learning curve is long and steep and even if you potentially Master stamdk your enemies will achieve a certain skill level where you won't be able to kill them anymore with stamdk as the burst isn't high enough and is easily avoidable. The best thing you can get against top players is a draw and in open world this will end with your death as you get zerged.

On nightblades, magdk, Warden, sorcs and stamplar you will get to a point where you can kill 95% of all players who are not running a full troll tank build in an acceptable time (nightblades can kill some of the troll tanks aswell).
As a stamdk you need even for bad players much longer to get a kill no matter how good you are you won't be able to kill 70% of the players in the same time the others can. Yes you can tank more but tanking scales very poorly with skill, a skilled sorc/ nb can kite 30 players for hours, there is only 1 tank on PC EU who can tank 15 players solo for more than 20 30 seconds and that just shows how bad dk is

Jaybe_Mawfaka · November 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Better to create another #buffsorc thread, it will get way more attention since there are no stamdks left with some constructive feedback, everyone rerolled magsorc, stamblade or stamwarden years ago lmao.

It's true the amount of decent stamdks is below 20 on PC EU and by decent i mean ppl who last longer than 20 seconds in duels or can tank 3 randoms in cyro.
There is simply no reason to use it, the learning curve is long and steep and even if you potentially Master stamdk your enemies will achieve a certain skill level where you won't be able to kill them anymore with stamdk as the burst isn't high enough and is easily avoidable. The best thing you can get against top players is a draw and in open world this will end with your death as you get zerged.

On nightblades, magdk, Warden, sorcs and stamplar you will get to a point where you can kill 95% of all players who are not running a full troll tank build in an acceptable time (nightblades can kill some of the troll tanks aswell).
As a stamdk you need even for bad players much longer to get a kill no matter how good you are you won't be able to kill 70% of the players in the same time the others can. Yes you can tank more but tanking scales very poorly with skill, a skilled sorc/ nb can kite 30 players for hours, there is only 1 tank on PC EU who can tank 15 players solo for more than 20 30 seconds and that just shows how bad dk is

I couldn't agree more. Well at least killing now feels rewarding on it, since you know it's not because you are playing fotm, you have to be actually skilful to perfom on a decent level now.

BohnT · November 2017

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Better to create another #buffsorc thread, it will get way more attention since there are no stamdks left with some constructive feedback, everyone rerolled magsorc, stamblade or stamwarden years ago lmao.

It's true the amount of decent stamdks is below 20 on PC EU and by decent i mean ppl who last longer than 20 seconds in duels or can tank 3 randoms in cyro.
There is simply no reason to use it, the learning curve is long and steep and even if you potentially Master stamdk your enemies will achieve a certain skill level where you won't be able to kill them anymore with stamdk as the burst isn't high enough and is easily avoidable. The best thing you can get against top players is a draw and in open world this will end with your death as you get zerged.

On nightblades, magdk, Warden, sorcs and stamplar you will get to a point where you can kill 95% of all players who are not running a full troll tank build in an acceptable time (nightblades can kill some of the troll tanks aswell).
As a stamdk you need even for bad players much longer to get a kill no matter how good you are you won't be able to kill 70% of the players in the same time the others can. Yes you can tank more but tanking scales very poorly with skill, a skilled sorc/ nb can kite 30 players for hours, there is only 1 tank on PC EU who can tank 15 players solo for more than 20 30 seconds and that just shows how bad dk is

I couldn't agree more. Well at least killing now feels rewarding on it, since you know it's not because you are playing fotm, you have to be actually skilful to perfom on a decent level now.

You have to work so hard for your kills and if you mess something up you waste all your resources trying to get a kill even on bad players. I don't know how you can get a kill nowadays without using leap/ dawnbreaker in your burst rota. Maybe if you go full monty with medium armor full dmg no sustain then you could get some kills with Heavy attack+ uppercut + reverse slice but only against the worst players

ak_pvp · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I get the feeling stamDK are everywhere

They are, they're the most common class. They're also the most whiny

Coming from a sorc main that claims his class is destroyed?

Entire burst combo depending on an ulti, worst mobility, sustain damage trash for PvP and worst sustain unless full ulti specc'd. Worst group utility. Yep, DK is ***. (Both specs, openworld.)

StamDK is good for 1 thing. Beserking. But worse at anything group wise.

Even magicka, though better in group/duels than stamina suffers from the same as above, and the fact that every other class provides better utility.

Skoomah · November 2017

I've fought so many Templars that heal for days and never die. Wardens tree ult constantly and never die. Sorcs shield spam and never die. Nightblades cloak spam and never die because you can't even see them. All the classes can mitigate all your damage and retaliate with very strong counter attack damage. The counter damage is strong and they can sustain it for a very long time as well. Stam DKs were meant to outsustain opponents, that's why our mobility was purposefully designed to be low. We don't out sustain anyone really anymore and we don't pack enough of a punch to finish the kill. The nerfs over time to Stam DKs have really crapped all over the class. And my reference point here on the other classes are high skill experienced pvpers. I kill noobs all day long but what's the sport in that?

Betsararie · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I get the feeling stamDK are everywhere

They are, they're the most common class. They're also the most whiny

Coming from a sorc main that claims his class is destroyed?

Entire burst combo depending on an ulti, worst mobility, sustain damage trash for PvP and worst sustain unless full ulti specc'd. Worst group utility. Yep, DK is ***. (Both specs, openworld.)

StamDK is good for 1 thing. Beserking. But worse at anything group wise.

Even magicka, though better in group/duels than stamina suffers from the same as above, and the fact that every other class provides better utility.

Your mobility is worse but that's it, you can tick up to 5k weapon damage on Heavy armor dk and still be incredibly tanky. You have leap which is one of the cheapest skills in the game, take flight has a very low cost. Unless the sorc is running matriarch your heals are also better on DK.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Im saying this since morrowind pts.
It was underpowered. now Its garbage tier.
With the november block nerfs probably even zerglings wont play a stamDk.

Most people here claiming that everyone is playing a stamDk and Its op etc , they pretty much never played one themselves.

Warden is just as tanky as Dk. and they do have equal or even better sustain/mobility/burst heals/ranged pressure/spammables/good burst damage/a reflect that actually works/mad ult regen/good team utility.

stam DK has NONE of those above.
And It doesnt have anything really better than a stamden.

So yeah.. Go ahead and actually play one, versus decent players,not zerglings. you will see what I mean only then.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

imredneckson wrote: »

I feel like this is a L2P issue.

5x Fury
5x Bone Pirate
2x Malubeth
Give this a shot

Or

5x Reactive
5x Witchman Armor
2x Blood Spawn

Or

5x Clever Alchemist
3x Agility
2x Blood Spawn
1x Maelstrom Maul/Bow

There are so many ways you can play a Stamina DK and have it be strong. Watch videos on YouTube to see how to play it, test your DPS on practice dummies at your home/guild house/ a buddy while dueling, and ask for some help from other stam dks.

Those builds are truly horrible by the way.
Well the last one is okay.

First build wont even work because you will lose either bone pirate or fury when you swap bars.
So yeah. Go back to the game and actually test your build before you recommend it to people.

Stamicka · November 2017

I’m not sure that the problem is directly with the Stam DK class, while I agree that it’s in a bad spot right now, I think that it is because of the new Meta. The new Meta is disgusting and skilless, stack high health, resistance, and have a form of instantly recovering health or preventing death (like sword and shield ult, resto ult, Warden tree, perma block) the list goes on. The amount of people that run these types of builds is surprisingly high. Since Stam DK has dots and lowish burst, these types of builds will be too hard to kill. I think that it’s fair to have a tanky class with low burst, it would be OP if it had high burst with the tankiness, but the problem is that EVERYONE is a tank now. It’s not just class Passives that make you tanky now it’s armor and new ulti. If the game would go back to a time where people were squishier then I think DKs would be balanced with the other classes.

WaltherCarraway · November 2017

sorc, nb, templar, warden say "dk is tanky lol"

>tanky

>tanky

>tanky

lmao...

FrancisCrawford · November 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

(stamDK) can be the most dominant class in PvE (best single target DPS in the game

How so? DW w/ bow backbar? Which class skills are mixed in?

Valencer · November 2017

Play a stamina warden. It does everything a stamina DK does, but better.

Stamina DK has been a joke since morrowind

BohnT · November 2017

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

(stamDK) can be the most dominant class in PvE (best single target DPS in the game

How so? DW w/ bow backbar? Which class skills are mixed in?

Just check every stamdk pve build.
DW/Bow + morag tong + WM + NMG + Sunder flame + alkosh stamina Support.

Then stamdk is really the highest single target in the game by a good margin.

This post if 100% on pvp. In pve Stamdk is strong (maybe a bit too strong) but in pvp stamdk is the worst class in the game.

BohnT · November 2017

Stamicka wrote: »

I’m not sure that the problem is directly with the Stam DK class, while I agree that it’s in a bad spot right now, I think that it is because of the new Meta. The new Meta is disgusting and skilless, stack high health, resistance, and have a form of instantly recovering health or preventing death (like sword and shield ult, resto ult, Warden tree, perma block) the list goes on. The amount of people that run these types of builds is surprisingly high. Since Stam DK has dots and lowish burst, these types of builds will be too hard to kill. I think that it’s fair to have a tanky class with low burst, it would be OP if it had high burst with the tankiness, but the problem is that EVERYONE is a tank now. It’s not just class Passives that make you tanky now it’s armor and new ulti. If the game would go back to a time where people were squishier then I think DKs would be balanced with the other classes.

Well no stamdk isn't more tanky than any other class. They might be better in a perfect setup with no snares, no LoS, no poisons, no things that ignore block etc. If all this comes together then yes stamdk is the most tanky class in the game but this isn't the case 99.9% of the time.
Survivability has so many layers nowadays that only being able to permblock won't keep you alive.
That's something the devs simply don't get right, on a stamnb i can fight twice as much enemies i can fight on any other class simply because I avoid so much damage while being able to dish out crazy burst, same goes for magsorc, magblade, Stamwarden, and for a lesser extent magdk and stamplar/ sorc.
All of them can avoid damage with purge, cloak, mobility entirely. On my stamplar dots are nothing i worry about, and on magsorc if too many ppl want to go meele against me i open a gap and ignore 100% meele damage until they vorm back to me for stamwarden mobility healing and permblock come together with which i can ignore huge amounts of damage.
Stamdk on the other hand eats everything without access to a burst heal and it's right that stamdk mitigates the damage but you still eat some dmg while others take 0 dmg from the same sources and this translates to the problem that stamdk can eat more dmg but has same or less survivability as other classes while having less burst.

Kartalin · November 2017

BohnT wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

(stamDK) can be the most dominant class in PvE (best single target DPS in the game

How so? DW w/ bow backbar? Which class skills are mixed in?

This post if 100% on pvp. In pve Stamdk is strong (maybe a bit too strong) but in pvp stamdk is the worst class in the game.

Well, this is the pvp section of the forums, sooo....

BohnT · November 2017

Kartalin wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

(stamDK) can be the most dominant class in PvE (best single target DPS in the game

How so? DW w/ bow backbar? Which class skills are mixed in?

This post if 100% on pvp. In pve Stamdk is strong (maybe a bit too strong) but in pvp stamdk is the worst class in the game.

Well, this is the pvp section of the forums, sooo....

Read the quote please

Biro123 · November 2017

I'm not really in disagreement with the overall sentiment

But I don't think comparing to wardens which are blatantly top-dog illustrates the case very well.

Just my outsider perspective (never played DK past level10)

tplink3r1 · November 2017

imredneckson wrote: »

I feel like this is a L2P issue.

5x Fury
5x Bone Pirate
2x Malubeth
Give this a shot

Or

5x Reactive
5x Witchman Armor
2x Blood Spawn

Or

5x Clever Alchemist
3x Agility
2x Blood Spawn
1x Maelstrom Maul/Bow

There are so many ways you can play a Stamina DK and have it be strong. Watch videos on YouTube to see how to play it, test your DPS on practice dummies at your home/guild house/ a buddy while dueling, and ask for some help from other stam dks.

Because changing sets has everything to do with L2P.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

I think Its high time stamDK got Its synergy with stamina repaired.
The class literally has nothing that scales with stamina anymore.

ak_pvp · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I get the feeling stamDK are everywhere

They are, they're the most common class. They're also the most whiny

Coming from a sorc main that claims his class is destroyed?

Entire burst combo depending on an ulti, worst mobility, sustain damage trash for PvP and worst sustain unless full ulti specc'd. Worst group utility. Yep, DK is ***. (Both specs, openworld.)

StamDK is good for 1 thing. Beserking. But worse at anything group wise.

Even magicka, though better in group/duels than stamina suffers from the same as above, and the fact that every other class provides better utility.

Your mobility is worse but that's it, you can tick up to 5k weapon damage on Heavy armor dk and still be incredibly tanky. You have leap which is one of the cheapest skills in the game, take flight has a very low cost. Unless the sorc is running matriarch your heals are also better on DK.

That's the thing though. A meta stamDK though strong, is a one trick pony. Tank leap, execute, repeat. With block rip, what defense do they have? Wings?

Wikter_Bravo · November 2017

I've played stam dk for 3 years straight, seen the rise and fall of many classes. My current set up is 5 medium 2 heavy sword and board. I will admit that i cannot take on the amount of people i did before the HA crazy but I will say that I can still kill groups of 3-4 people depending on the skill level. I do not expect to kill hundreds of people or to really win against 4 skilled players who have their build sorted. Just no the game we live in anymore, but i will say that i do have fun with this set up, i can kill people with it. Now many people will probably flame me for this but I really think people should adjust to medium armour. Sure there are problems with it like the resistances, undodgable damage and not having the 1vx ablites like HA. I wont lie or hide that i have been nuked by classes or exploded in seconds, but i learned to live with that. I also guess that people who play sword and board expect huge damage like 2h (correct me if im wrong) when infact the play style is more sustained damage rather than huge burst. To conclude, i was in a position like this weeks ago but i adjusted to the changes, Stam Dk might be weaker but its not dead...yet.

Betsararie · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

I get the feeling stamDK are everywhere

They are, they're the most common class. They're also the most whiny

Coming from a sorc main that claims his class is destroyed?

Entire burst combo depending on an ulti, worst mobility, sustain damage trash for PvP and worst sustain unless full ulti specc'd. Worst group utility. Yep, DK is ***. (Both specs, openworld.)

StamDK is good for 1 thing. Beserking. But worse at anything group wise.

Even magicka, though better in group/duels than stamina suffers from the same as above, and the fact that every other class provides better utility.

Your mobility is worse but that's it, you can tick up to 5k weapon damage on Heavy armor dk and still be incredibly tanky. You have leap which is one of the cheapest skills in the game, take flight has a very low cost. Unless the sorc is running matriarch your heals are also better on DK.

That's the thing though. A meta stamDK though strong, is a one trick pony. Tank leap, execute, repeat. With block rip, what defense do they have? Wings?

Bloodspawn is OP. Equip the new asylum 2H and you will be getting ulti faster than you can keep track of. All the while while running fury, granting you insane weapon damage. Fury is a completely OP and cheap set. Take Flight is an OP ulti.

Stam DK is not the best class in the game, but they are still 100% viable. The issue for DKs now is now that warden is around, warden can do everything they can do but better. Warden completely outclasses DK in almost every way. I think that is where a lot of the QQ may be coming from, which may or may not be warranted depending on circumstance.

LukosCreyden · November 2017

Logged in with my stamDK Bosmer yesterday. She is alive and well. Solo'd some pledges with her. It was good. Seemed like things were working fine.

Edit: this is a pvp thread. Woops, my bad.

BohnT · November 2017

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Logged in with my stamDK Bosmer yesterday. She is alive and well. Solo'd some pledges with her. It was good. Seemed like things were working fine.

It's about PvP no one said they are bad in pve.

LukosCreyden · November 2017

@BohnT

Woops. Thanks for informing me. Did an edit on my post.

Laggus · November 2017

You'd think ZoS wants you to buy Warden or something..oh wait o-0

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2017

I believe it is important to point out that Stamplar is also low mobility and has less of the CC punch that DK has. Admittedly, the DK doesn't have a cleansing circle.

BohnT · November 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I believe it is important to point out that Stamplar is also low mobility and has less of the CC punch that DK has. Admittedly, the DK doesn't have a cleansing circle.

Stamplar has equal problems but can work around them better.
For one sustain is much worse on a stamplar than on a stamdk.
The burst potential of stamplars is higher because of jabs, burning light, PotL but it's delayed which makes it easier to counter than leap+ reverb.
I think stamplar and stamdk are nicely balanced with each other but stamplar wins in the current way you have to fight in cyro.
PotL helps your group burst down tanky people, purge helps with survivability and sustain with passives, heal ult keeps ppl under pressure alive.
And if you run solo purge makes you mobile even in heavy armor and helps you prevent lots of damage.

If stamdk had a way to get rid of snares while still having access to a burst heal and gets a class spammable i bet you'd see much more stamdks in cyro in small non optimised groups.

For optimised group play there would still be no reason to run stamdk as it has the least group utility of all classes.

Stamina dk needs so much help but with the next patch they will be even worse when ZoS wrecks permablock. This will be the time when you can use all stamdks as crafters and even then other classes are better due to higher mobility.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this thread to the combat team. There are so many good stamdks in the community that would be thankfull to give advices to make the class better.
@ZOS_Wrobel can you check this post please

Thogard · November 2017

I respecced my Stam DK into a full time PvE tank. With my Stam warden done, there is literally 0 reason to ever play Stam DK in PvP