Stam DK is Dead!

Jaybe_Mawfaka

Skander wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

StamDK in pvp is a joke currently. Every time i see one i think to myself: "Well the worst outcome of this is they manage to survive somehow".

That indicates a problem imo.

Skander wrote: »

Argument: Stam dk easymode is over, maybe

Man if ppl would comment that on templar topics you´d go ballistic.
We´re not talking about average joe stamDK - ppl that played the class since 1.6 or even before that are abandoning it bc it´s no longer competetive in pvp.
Contrary to the position templar or mDK is in there are also no newbloods that can put up a good fight. Every stamDK i see simply gets stomped.

That's becouse magplar is not easymode. Not at all.

Enough said

Durham

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

And yet I see a crap ton of stamDKs in both pve and pvp.

They are re-rolling like I am doing atm .... There is no reason to run a DK atm unless you want to run the worthless tanking noobs build...

I just came back after 4 months..... when I left my DK was nerfed in the last 4 major patches but I still very competitive ... Now an equal skilled Stamplar or Stam Warden will kill me ... I have tried various builds some of them are medium armor ...

The main problem is now Im out healed ... No mobility .... Stamden and Stam Warden can simply just out burst me ....

del9

Re-rolled and over it. RIP StamDK

Thogard

IMO they should give Stam DKs the stamden subterranean assault and they should give stamdens the searing strike dot. That would rebalance both classes and fix them for both PvE and PvP.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Thogard wrote: »

IMO they should give Stam DKs the stamden subterranean assault and they should give stamdens the searing strike dot. That would rebalance both classes and fix them for both PvE and PvP.

@Thogard

That...actually isn't a bad idea. Burning embers doesn't fit in the ranged DPS mold of the rest of the magden kit, so wouldn't fix their PvE dps issues, but I do like the idea of giving them another dot.

This is about PvP, though. Sub assault+leap would hit super hard, but fit into the brawler motif of DKs. Perhaps reduce the range to 8m since both flavors of DKs are meant to be in-your-face.

Thogard

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

IMO they should give Stam DKs the stamden subterranean assault and they should give stamdens the searing strike dot. That would rebalance both classes and fix them for both PvE and PvP.

@Thogard

That...actually isn't a bad idea. Burning embers doesn't fit in the ranged DPS mold of the rest of the magden kit, so wouldn't fix their PvE dps issues, but I do like the idea of giving them another dot.

This is about PvP, though. Sub assault+leap would hit super hard, but fit into the brawler motif of DKs. Perhaps reduce the range to 8m since both flavors of DKs are meant to be in-your-face.

Yeah they’d have to tone it down slightly but keep in mind that the DK doesn’t have the same offensive ultimates that the warden has. Remember warden gets 2% more dmg (not wep dmg but pure dmg) just for having sub assault slotted. IMO the removal of the fracture should be enough

Would you rather take a sub assault + leap or sub assault + bird + dawnbreaker? But then again if the DK is running FoO that’s another bit of dmg added onto the 1s burst. Tough call.

Kartalin

If you take away their poison claw there's going to be a lot of stamDK FOM DPS PVErs showing up with pitchforks and torches, lol.

I think stam dk has always lacked a good spammable. Whether that should be a morph of flame lash or anything else is debatable, but from my experience at least I don't like dizzying swing/wrecking blow spamming, too easy for them to see coming and get out of the way.

Hutch679

Stam DK NEEDS to be in heavy armor. This is because it benefits greatly from the healing buff in heavy armor combined with igneous shield. 6 heavy armor/1 medium, 2 hand, sword and shield back bar. 7% healing taken in CP tree, 7% in blessed and you heal to full in 2 vigor ticks. Seriously stam dk is not dead lol get your weight up. Hundings rage still performs amazingly tbh. I think people hit panic when they come up against one person they struggle to kill or can't kill. Pick what you wanna do and build the character around that. For example you can make a 2h dot build with a maelstrom battleaxe, noxious breath, venomous claw, brawler, and damage health poisons that is super tanky w mass dot damage in heavy armor.

Rohaus

I don’t know about that... sub + dizzy + leap + excute all in the span of a second ... everyone would then switch to Stam DK

Rohaus

Every class needs uniqueness! There is the approach of certain skills and abilities that are class inherent that are undodgable, unblockable etc... well, how about unpurgable DK dots AND a slight increase to dot damage for DK. And how about making one of the dots do more damage based on the persons health... execute baby!!

Then we’d be talking!!

nCats

Yes, DoT dk with viper and skoria is actually an interesting build. Unpurgeable dots would be a valid addition.

Maybe the bursty dk could also get minor berserk as means to be able to burst better.

Toc de Malsvi

Hmm, to the argument of equal skill, defining equal skill is a tricky business. There are a wide range of factors that influence that.

I do alright with mine. Weaker than we have been but I wouldnt say dead in the water.

Thogard

Rohaus wrote: »

I don’t know about that... sub + dizzy + leap + excute all in the span of a second ... everyone would then switch to Stam DK

That is 3 GCDs though. Dizzy, leap, and execute are all on their own GCD so it would take minimum of 2.1s from start to finish of burst... more if you count the windup time of dizzy.

But is it really that different from what wardens already do? Just replace leap with dawnbreaker and add in more damage passives, better sustain, and better healing and you have the warden burst. Add 2% dmg from animal companion passive and 8% minor brutality from falcon... that’d put damage the DK anyway (unless DK’s FoO hits in that window too)

Skoomah

RIP Stam DK!

Calboy

Nothing wrong with stam dk. It's just the stamina monkeys have changed to the new fotm.

Durham

Calboy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with stam dk. It's just the stamina monkeys have changed to the new fotm.

I have played since release .. there is plenty wrong with them atm in pvp.. They now are just good tank that brings almost nothing to the fight.. Any of the other stam classes are better atm... Stam Warden and Stam Templar right now are just on a different level...

Calboy

Durham wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with stam dk. It's just the stamina monkeys have changed to the new fotm.

I have played since release .. there is plenty wrong with them atm in pvp.. They now are just good tank that brings almost nothing to the fight.. Any of the other stam classes are better atm... Stam Warden and Stam Templar right now are just on a different level...

That doesn't mean stam dk is no longer good. It just means that others are over performing and because all stam classes are essentially the same I would bet a large portion of the player base who plays stam just follows the meta and plays what ever class is currently the strongest.

Qbiken

Rohaus wrote: »

Every class needs uniqueness! There is the approach of certain skills and abilities that are class inherent that are undodgable, unblockable etc... well, how about unpurgable DK dots AND a slight increase to dot damage for DK. And how about making one of the dots do more damage based on the persons health... execute baby!!

Then we’d be talking!!

The uniqueness with DK´s was removed with the nerfs to battle roar and helping hands....

Ragnarock41

Hutch679 wrote: »

Stam DK NEEDS to be in heavy armor. This is because it benefits greatly from the healing buff in heavy armor combined with igneous shield. 6 heavy armor/1 medium, 2 hand, sword and shield back bar. 7% healing taken in CP tree, 7% in blessed and you heal to full in 2 vigor ticks. Seriously stam dk is not dead lol get your weight up. Hundings rage still performs amazingly tbh. I think people hit panic when they come up against one person they struggle to kill or can't kill. Pick what you wanna do and build the character around that. For example you can make a 2h dot build with a maelstrom battleaxe, noxious breath, venomous claw, brawler, and damage health poisons that is super tanky w mass dot damage in heavy armor.

Yeah, because the people who play stamDK for years can't figure out that heavy armor-healing is good, and they can use dots on a stamDk.
Can't wait to tell them the huge news!
All our problems are solved now.
Thanks a lot!

Valencer

Hutch679 wrote: »

Stam DK NEEDS to be in heavy armor. This is because it benefits greatly from the healing buff in heavy armor combined with igneous shield. 6 heavy armor/1 medium, 2 hand, sword and shield back bar. 7% healing taken in CP tree, 7% in blessed and you heal to full in 2 vigor ticks. Seriously stam dk is not dead lol get your weight up. Hundings rage still performs amazingly tbh. I think people hit panic when they come up against one person they struggle to kill or can't kill. Pick what you wanna do and build the character around that. For example you can make a 2h dot build with a maelstrom battleaxe, noxious breath, venomous claw, brawler, and damage health poisons that is super tanky w mass dot damage in heavy armor.

Let's jump back to reality for a moment.

Vigor won't heal you from low health to full health in 2 ticks. Even if your vigor ticks constantly crit and you had 100% uptime on major mending this won't come anywhere close to that, or even a fraction of it.

What killed stam DK was the healing nerfs and defile buffs imo. Major Mendng is really expensive to keep up now and people can easily have 40%+ major defile tooltips with a small-ish investment into the Befoul CP star. You've got a spec that is basically built around being good at healing itself back up as primary defense and you simply can't do that anymore under realistic circumstances.

People are only now catching up because the morrowind/HotR band-aid solution of running full sturdy (permablock) doesnt really work that well anymore without access to Shuffle in open world PvP.

Hutch679

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Stam DK NEEDS to be in heavy armor. This is because it benefits greatly from the healing buff in heavy armor combined with igneous shield. 6 heavy armor/1 medium, 2 hand, sword and shield back bar. 7% healing taken in CP tree, 7% in blessed and you heal to full in 2 vigor ticks. Seriously stam dk is not dead lol get your weight up. Hundings rage still performs amazingly tbh. I think people hit panic when they come up against one person they struggle to kill or can't kill. Pick what you wanna do and build the character around that. For example you can make a 2h dot build with a maelstrom battleaxe, noxious breath, venomous claw, brawler, and damage health poisons that is super tanky w mass dot damage in heavy armor.

Yeah, because the people who play stamDK for years can't figure out that heavy armor-healing is good, and they can use dots on a stamDk.
Can't wait to tell them the huge news!
All our problems are solved now.
Thanks a lot!

Honestly you should probably just change classes if you can't successfully play a stam dk. It's seriously not that hard. Or you can continue to be sarcastic AND bad at playing stam DK lol

Torbschka

I came up with an sick stam DK build, its pretty op ^^

Wont share it set, lets see if zeni is aware of it and destroys it next patch lol

Mihael

I think for the most part stam dk is in a good place because I do not want to go back to the days where they could have 600 recovery and sustain better than anyone because of heavy and battle roar and have better healing than everyone too while at the same time having tons of damage.

Having said that I do agree that stam dk needs something to make the class more unique because at the moment there is no point In Playing dk when you can play warden

Torbschka

One question though - why does every1 say that stamden has better ressource management as a stam DK?

Isnt
Helping hands + battle roar > green netch + passive(resources back if u heal urself) ?

At least, they are pretty mich similar, right?

Thogard

Torbschka wrote: »

One question though - why does every1 say that stamden has better ressource management as a stam DK?

Isnt
Helping hands + battle roar > green netch + passive(resources back if u heal urself) ?

At least, they are pretty mich similar, right?

Wardens also get 10%(?) more Stam regen for having an animal companions ability slotted, and their falcon swiftness gives them another 20% from major endurance

BohnT

Torbschka wrote: »

One question though - why does every1 say that stamden has better ressource management as a stam DK?

Isnt
Helping hands + battle roar > green netch + passive(resources back if u heal urself) ?

At least, they are pretty mich similar, right?

+230 mag or stam for healing allies. And Warden abilities are much cheaper. Crystal plate costs what 2.7k mag while returning 900 mag for every projectile absorbed.
Wings cost 3.8k mag with no cost return and no good second effect.

Torbschka

BohnT wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

One question though - why does every1 say that stamden has better ressource management as a stam DK?

Isnt
Helping hands + battle roar > green netch + passive(resources back if u heal urself) ?

At least, they are pretty mich similar, right?

+230 mag or stam for healing allies. And Warden abilities are much cheaper. Crystal plate costs what 2.7k mag while returning 900 mag for every projectile absorbed.
Wings cost 3.8k mag with no cost return and no good second effect.

Yes, this is the passive i meant by "ressources back, if u heal urself/ally".

But, if u run a low regen build, relying a lot on heavy attacks - all those %regen bonus wouldnt be as good as battle roar and helping hands, consideribg netch adds aroubd 200regen.

Thogard

Torbschka wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

One question though - why does every1 say that stamden has better ressource management as a stam DK?

Isnt
Helping hands + battle roar > green netch + passive(resources back if u heal urself) ?

At least, they are pretty mich similar, right?

+230 mag or stam for healing allies. And Warden abilities are much cheaper. Crystal plate costs what 2.7k mag while returning 900 mag for every projectile absorbed.
Wings cost 3.8k mag with no cost return and no good second effect.

Yes, this is the passive i meant by "ressources back, if u heal urself/ally".

But, if u run a low regen build, relying a lot on heavy attacks - all those %regen bonus wouldnt be as good as battle roar and helping hands, consideribg netch adds aroubd 200regen.

Those regen passives on DK are good for permablocking. But keep in mind that the Stam DK has no damage passives... so we have to have an extra wep dmg enchant just to break even with stamplars stamsorcs and stamdens.

DKs don’t really have better resource regen than other classes. It’s just that the DK resource regen works just fine even when blocking.

No one is saying that a permablock build isn’t viable. We’re just saying that we don’t like being forced into such a boring playstyle to stay competitive. Most of us have already rerolled.

Minno

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

StamDK in pvp is a joke currently. Every time i see one i think to myself: "Well the worst outcome of this is they manage to survive somehow".

That indicates a problem imo.

Skander wrote: »

Argument: Stam dk easymode is over, maybe

Man if ppl would comment that on templar topics you´d go ballistic.
We´re not talking about average joe stamDK - ppl that played the class since 1.6 or even before that are abandoning it bc it´s no longer competetive in pvp.
Contrary to the position templar or mDK is in there are also no newbloods that can put up a good fight. Every stamDK i see simply gets stomped.

That's becouse magplar is not easymode. Not at all.

Enough said

Well he isn't wrong or right. He's right because the lack of mobilty makes magplar hard to play, but he's wrong because at least magplar has access to allot more mixed source burst than stamDK; especially since our spamable procs burning light/valkyn, we have ranged/melee DPS, and our revised UC ability causes DK to take huge unblocked redirected DMG proc'd from jabs with volatile armor on.

Both classes need mobilty bad or a return to how we defend.

BroanBeast1215

Durham wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

And yet I see a crap ton of stamDKs in both pve and pvp.

They are re-rolling like I am doing atm .... There is no reason to run a DK atm unless you want to run the worthless tanking noobs build...

I just came back after 4 months..... when I left my DK was nerfed in the last 4 major patches but I still very competitive ... Now an equal skilled Stamplar or Stam Warden will kill me ... I have tried various builds some of them are medium armor ...

The main problem is now Im out healed ... No mobility .... Stamden and Stam Warden can simply just out burst me ....

oh no! you mean now you can be killed by other classes????

the audacity!