PVP is now only playable by veteran players

kyle.wilson · November 2017

Jawasa wrote: »

It's so sad that atm because of mechanincs having a couple of low CP players in a group is even hurting your group. They take more dmg and do less. When They die They blow up your group.

So, you're saying a team is only a strong as its weakest link?

Speed_Kills · November 2017

People think way too much of Cp. yes, it makes a difference. No, it won't make you destroy people that you are getting destroyed by. When I moved to PC from Xbox I was instantly competitive. At sub-250 cp I was competing (and beating) some of the top players on the server. I was even able to 1vx regularly. I would have been stronger with cp, but even without high cp, my experience and knowledge of how to properly gear, survive, and burst allowed me to be dominant in pvp. Most people think that after they've learned their character they should be good. That's not the case. Knowing your character is important, but knowing your enemies is just as important. You can't counter something if you don't know what it is. Pvp is all about counters and timing. I don't want to be that guy (or do I?), but I think this is a l2p issue.

Edit: just saw the post about resetting cp and posting a video in Cp-enabled campaigns. I accept. Anyone want to give me a CP number to allocate? Will be streaming it this week.

CyrusArya · November 2017

Yeah speed speaks the truth. I think there is a mix up of argumentation here and people are incoherently debating points.

Obviously CP are a factor in performance. Obviously, someone with more CP will have an advantage over someone with less.

This being said, there is far more to it than just champion points. You gotta look at the big picture. You put a newer player on a character with max CPs and best in slot gear and they will still get creamed by skilled vets. As they should. This is because at the end of the day, player ability and knowledge of classes/skills/mechanics are the most important aspect of performance. And thats not something you can grind or farm for...its something you gotta actively learn and practice.

There are plenty of examples of uncapped players who are formidable in battle and max CP high alliance rank players that are 1vX fodder.

Hate to say it but its almost always the best advice: learn to play and get good, just a those "veteren players" you speak of had to.

Jawasa · November 2017

@CyrusArya Thats is true but why would vets then also need an extra advantage in form of CP? Just make even less people try pvp. For example i Havent even tried bdo because it seems so grindy. If i Got into eso now i'd prob just skip it because of the grind for cp.

Jawasa · November 2017

@kyle.wilson only in 8-24 man organised groups. Thats probably one of the reasons why that playstyle is dying.

IcyDeadPeople · November 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

People think way too much of Cp. yes, it makes a difference. No, it won't make you destroy people that you are getting destroyed by. When I moved to PC from Xbox I was instantly competitive. At sub-250 cp I was competing (and beating) some of the top players on the server. I was even able to 1vx regularly. I would have been stronger with cp, but even without high cp, my experience and knowledge of how to properly gear, survive, and burst allowed me to be dominant in pvp. Most people think that after they've learned their character they should be good. That's not the case. Knowing your character is important, but knowing your enemies is just as important. You can't counter something if you don't know what it is. Pvp is all about counters and timing. I don't want to be that guy (or do I?), but I think this is a l2p issue.

Edit: just saw the post about resetting cp and posting a video in Cp-enabled campaigns. I accept. Anyone want to give me a CP number to allocate? Will be streaming it this week.

Agree completely as I have known a few experienced players who grinded up to that range in a few days on new account, then immediately get out there and start wrecking people.

and I'd suggest 300 CP for your demo as a relatively easy target for new players. Doesn't take very long at all to reach 300 these days due to the catch up mechanism.

CatchMeTrolling · November 2017

Killing people with low cp isn’t normal it’s the exception, especially if you already have years of experience, you’re not an actual noob, that’s a form of smurfing. Plus you’d obviously be fighting potatoes because any good capped player would kill you. In a debate never bring up what’s the exception as if it’s the norm, that’s like saying you do good with the worst dps class in pve or saying a class in a bad spot is good simply because you do fine in pvp with it.

I would also like to hear some of the names of these top players.

Waffennacht · November 2017

I know the RFA gents are good
I know Lexxy is good
I know hammer is good
I know Sweeps-for-you (I think that his name) is good
I know (hard to remember names!) If I was looking at em I could tell you lol

Snotty black is decent, getting better he is
Dem derps tho I've seen do well i think

I'll try harder later

Nogawd · November 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

People think way too much of Cp. yes, it makes a difference. No, it won't make you destroy people that you are getting destroyed by.

Sore losers blame every and anything but themselves when they get killed by someone. That person has 5 more cp than I do, it must have been the reason why they killed me, lol.

Waffennacht · November 2017

Nogawd wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

People think way too much of Cp. yes, it makes a difference. No, it won't make you destroy people that you are getting destroyed by.

Sore losers blame every and anything but themselves when they get killed by someone. That person has 5 more cp than I do, it must have been the reason why they killed me, lol.

Though, sometimes I think the opposite, "man if he had full CP I'd probably would've lost"

JDC1985 · November 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Trust me: even CP capped players are disappointed that BGs are now CP-enabled

I've been having a blast in BGS sense they got rid of the non cp trash but they shouldn't force people to play one style both should be available but they are too lazy to make that happen.

kaithuzar · November 2017

There are classes that are easier to play than others & specific builds that make things even easier. Stick to playing those classes & those builds until you get better or get more cp & can stop complaining about it.

Firstly, wear heavy armor, either impenetrable or sturdy.

Secondly, play magic dk or magic templar, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are easy, I'm saying they have the most survivability that's easy to obtain. People complain because they die a lot. Focus on staying alive first, then slowly add damage.

Third, wear 5 piece seducer as one of your armor sets, its craftable & easy to obtain. It's up to you what other armor you pair with it. You can try kags, Julianos, willpower, skoria, grothdar, lots of stuff!

Fourth, use sword & board on at least one bar, for dk you can use both for Templar maybe duel swords on your main dps bar & have breath of life on both bars.

These are the easier playstyles in my opinion. You won't be a God in PVP, but you'll definitely be a tougher opponent.

Killing may not be easy at first, but you can always run in a small group and let someone else kill. Killing is easiest when the damage comes from multiple sources, so your attacks help too.

a1i3nz · November 2017

You DO NOT need max CP to be good in PvP anymore.

ESO caters to people who aren't good at pvp by having armor seta and passives that overperform. Just go heavy armor S&B. Join a zerg. That's pvp in a nutshell.

AverageJo3Gam3r · November 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Many are missing the OP point.

ESO is VERY unfriendly to the new player due to CP grind. It’s worse then the old vet ranks, and the catch up mechanics are simply not even close to being enough. The majority of players can’t dedicate huge amounts of hours per week to the game. If I was a new player coming in, I’d quit after level 50 once I found out I had to grind 690 cp...no way I’d do that.

This is exactly what has happened too because on PC-NA below level 50 pvp is DEAD and No-CP Pvp is also dead..both served with 1 bar 95% of the time....this means new players are either quitting pretty quickly or not interested in grinding CP.

Folks need to get over this whole idea of “Digital Entitlement” there is no such thing in a video game. You have earned nothing, you have simply played a game. Win a Customer Service Award at work, get a pay raise, graduate from college, get a promotion at work..those are accomplishments...

I got news for you, 99% of the world doesn’t care about any titles you have in ESO or even what ESO is.

The community needs to be more welcoming to new players and it needs to happen soon or there won’t be a game left to play...we need to get rid of these arbitrary restrictions (gear and cp grinding) to make the game more attractive to a wider audience to fill up those pvp servers again, in order to do that though strength needs to be tied to player skill and gear, not CP grind

Just my two cents, take away my 800+ CP tommorow I don’t care if it brings in more players it’s worth it

@RinaldoGandolphi

I've done every single one of those things brah. I have a phd. I lead cyber security for a 2 billion dollar company. I've created national policy and have advised some of the key decision makers in the nation. And you know what all that took? Hard work and a long grind.

You know what it takes to be good at pvp? Hard work and a long game grind. I'm more than happy to take a noob into BGs and carry them. I'm more than happy to duel them over and over so they can get used to the ebb and flow of combat (cc, managing resources, defense, knowing when to burst, etc). BUT...they have to be willing to put in the time to improve. All too often, folks will have one negative experience and give up. If I did that in real life I'd be unemployed.

Don't act like resilience in digitial life is any different than resilience IRL. If you want to be good at pvp, put in the hours to master it. If you dont, then don't come on the forums and complain about it.

Thunderknuckles · November 2017

@RinaldoGandolphi

I've done every single one of those things brah. I have a phd. I lead cyber security for a 2 billion dollar company. I've created national policy and have advised some of the key decision makers in the nation. And you know what all that took? Hard work and a long grind.

You know what it takes to be good at pvp? Hard work and a long game grind. I'm more than happy to take a noob into BGs and carry them. I'm more than happy to duel them over and over so they can get used to the ebb and flow of combat (cc, managing resources, defense, knowing when to burst, etc). BUT...they have to be willing to put in the time to improve. All too often, folks will have one negative experience and give up. If I did that in real life I'd be unemployed.

Don't act like resilience in digitial life is any different than resilience IRL. If you want to be good at pvp, put in the hours to master it. If you dont, then don't come on the forums and complain about it.

Just going to take your word for it that you have a PhD and do/have done all the things you say. I'm just wondering....when do you even have time to game at all? lol Gotta disagree with you on "the resilience in a game is the same as resilience in real life philosophy".

A game is entertainment. Entertainment being the key word here. If it isn't fun people won't do it. I feel very safe in saying that after doing the duties of their real world life the idea of being bored/frustrated to tears with their entertainment time for, possibly, months on end is utterly unappealing and, since they have a choice, they will move to something else once the fun is gone. While I only started PvP'ing recently (and had a good time this weekend!) in ESO I have been pretty much just a PvP'er in other games for about six years now. It happens in every game. If people know they're going to get lawlstomped every night the whole time they're on for an indefinite period....they'll bail and the population will drop. Been witness to it over and over and over again. Still, there seem to be a ton of folks who like to PvP in ESO despite all the griping (which is also ubiquitous in every PvP game ever).

Eldar_Ftw · November 2017

a1i3nz wrote: »

You DO NOT need max CP to be good in PvP anymore.

ESO caters to people who aren't good at pvp by having armor seta and passives that overperform. Just go heavy armor S&B. Join a zerg. That's pvp in a nutshell.

Not possible in BG's

Nogawd wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

People think way too much of Cp. yes, it makes a difference. No, it won't make you destroy people that you are getting destroyed by.

Sore losers blame every and anything but themselves when they get killed by someone. That person has 5 more cp than I do, it must have been the reason why they killed me, lol.

More like has 500 cp more...

Valencer · November 2017

Once you get over the CP and gear grind (both of which are now so much easier than before) and have a PvP-viable build there's actually very little separating you from veteran players in PvP.

Vets cant really outperform average players that much anymore and the current tank meta is easy as hell to play for anyone, no matter how good you are at the game. The ceiling is lower than ever...

Derra · November 2017

Valencer wrote: »

Once you get over the CP and gear grind (both of which are now so much easier than before) and have a PvP-viable build there's actually very little separating you from veteran players in PvP.

Vets cant really outperform average players that much anymore and the current tank meta is easy as hell to play for anyone, no matter how good you are at the game. The ceiling is lower than ever...

I wouldn´t agree to that.

The ceiling is somewhat low for anything revolving around heavy and or sword and board. Those things limit the potential causes of death but also limit your potential to kill.
Once people step beyond heavy (for certain classes only) because they´d like to increase their possibilities of killing an opponent things get interesting and the real l2p and learn to build begins.

However most players for one or the othe reason are content with not dying and killing opponents by outnumbering them.

I think the devs should push the game in a direction where new players can access pvp faster while also making the "naenaeican´tdie" builds less desireable to play.

Barbaran · November 2017

the way the cp tree has been re structured, at cp 350+ your basically on par with capped cp players for damage/mitigation. cap cp juat gwts a few extra pnts into misc. utility trees. nothing breaking.
play more man, you dont get to jump into a game get aome decent gear and after 2 months expect to be on par or better against some guys having 2+ yrs experience on the game.
quit complaining man, zos keeps.changing things to make the newer players mote competitive.
id love to hear you whine with the old cp tree, bein cp 200 vs max cp a year ago was tough but you learn to play

Skoomah · November 2017

The skill gap between new pvp players vs veteran ones is big. Go watch some early Deltia videos to learn pvp mechanics. There's a lot of good material out there for people that aren't lazy and who are willing to learn.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · November 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Trust me: even CP capped players are disappointed that BGs are now CP-enabled

Quoted for the damn truth. People saying “oh go grind CP” or “l2p scrub”. It’s not that. It’s so far from that.

The people preaching against this awful change are the same people dominating BGs. We prefer BGs over the stale gameplay of cyrodill because the offering of actual competitive pvp on an even platform and scaled numbers. This ruins all of that.

The same people thriving in BGs before will continue on, they didn’t just forget how to play. Adding CP ruins the experience and allure completely that BG had going for it. This is why people are speaking out so much against this change. There isn’t a reason in the world anyone sub 400 will step in BG, why the f would they?!

Thunderknuckles · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

No one said anything about "expecting to be really good" as soon as you start playing. LOL There's a difference between a moderate learning curve and one hell of several months long grind of being routinely 1 and 2 shotted. Unless that never really changes. Still, I'll give it a try again.

La comprensión lectora importa, amigo.

You're missing the underlying message, which is, "one must learn to play".

If you're spending SEVERAL MONTHS being one shotted, there is something wrong. Sorry, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Slot heavy armor. Play sorc. do something. You have to learn how to adapt and play so that you can prevent dying.

Some people CAN'T ever do that. Those people should maybe consider quitting or just being a tank. Nobody ever said it is suppposed to be easy.

But yeah.... if it's going that badly for you.... yeah something needs to be done. LOL

I've gotten back into PvP the last three or so days and am actually enjoying myself. I do get obliterated more often than not, but getting the hang of it. I can still understand where a lot of players might get very frustrated with having to learn animation cancelling and such because it's utterly counterintuitive for 90% of PvP'ers. No other game that I know of has this mechanic.

Personally I'm enjoying it so far.

Stratforge · November 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

I know the RFA gents are good

lol

Betsararie · November 2017

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

No one said anything about "expecting to be really good" as soon as you start playing. LOL There's a difference between a moderate learning curve and one hell of several months long grind of being routinely 1 and 2 shotted. Unless that never really changes. Still, I'll give it a try again.

La comprensión lectora importa, amigo.

You're missing the underlying message, which is, "one must learn to play".

If you're spending SEVERAL MONTHS being one shotted, there is something wrong. Sorry, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Slot heavy armor. Play sorc. do something. You have to learn how to adapt and play so that you can prevent dying.

Some people CAN'T ever do that. Those people should maybe consider quitting or just being a tank. Nobody ever said it is suppposed to be easy.

But yeah.... if it's going that badly for you.... yeah something needs to be done. LOL

I've gotten back into PvP the last three or so days and am actually enjoying myself. I do get obliterated more often than not, but getting the hang of it. I can still understand where a lot of players might get very frustrated with having to learn animation cancelling and such because it's utterly counterintuitive for 90% of PvP'ers. No other game that I know of has this mechanic.

Personally I'm enjoying it so far.

I'm glad you're enjoying.

I find it funny that so many people don't find animation cancelling intuitive, because I think it is actually very intuitive, and it's actually something that I've largely self taught to myself. I started doing it independently before ever even reading about it. But I've played games of various different genres at such a high level for so long, that it's basically 2nd nature to me. Things like animation cancelling always require skill

Animation cancelling is one of the most skillful aspects of PvP, and you can spot someone who doesn't know how to play immediately- as soon as they start talking bad about animation cancelling, they've shown they don't know the game. If you're good and skilled, you do it, or if you can't do it are at least open to learning about it.

wheem_ESO · November 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

Edit: just saw the post about resetting cp and posting a video in Cp-enabled campaigns. I accept. Anyone want to give me a CP number to allocate? Will be streaming it this week.

You're already experienced so it won't be exactly representative, but something like 160-300 total is fine. And do it in Battlegrounds, not Cyrodiil. Running over people that are holding block and throwing down liquid lightning and such won't prove anything. (and while those types of players most certainly exist in BGs, the bar is typically not as low)

I think a lot of people are seriously downplaying the impact of CP...there are players that my Cliff Racer will crit for 6k, and players that it'll crit for 4k (non-tanks and no blocking in both cases). If you're one of the low CP players that my Shalks crit for >= 11.5k, you don't stand a chance. Period.