PVP is now only playable by veteran players

Pwnyridah

Just get in a zerg in equestrian scrolls online and siege away.

Minno

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

And those veteran players are only looking to farm you guys. Seriously, look at every streamer/video, they roll up to a resource and look to dominate pugs. Every 1vX fight is actually a pug stomp video lol.

Only the big raid guilds actually battle each other but raid guilds also go to farm pugs too.

But seriously, if any new players want to learn about PvP, head over to our section of the forums and we will do our best to help anyone out .

KyuremBlack

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Many are missing the OP point.

ESO is VERY unfriendly to the new player due to CP grind. It’s worse then the old vet ranks, and the catch up mechanics are simply not even close to being enough. The majority of players can’t dedicate huge amounts of hours per week to the game. If I was a new player coming in, I’d quit after level 50 once I found out I had to grind 690 cp...no way I’d do that.

This is exactly what has happened too because on PC-NA below level 50 pvp is DEAD and No-CP Pvp is also dead..both served with 1 bar 95% of the time....this means new players are either quitting pretty quickly or not interested in grinding CP.

Folks need to get over this whole idea of “Digital Entitlement” there is no such thing in a video game. You have earned nothing, you have simply played a game. Win a Customer Service Award at work, get a pay raise, graduate from college, get a promotion at work..those are accomplishments...

I got news for you, 99% of the world doesn’t care about any titles you have in ESO or even what ESO is.

The community needs to be more welcoming to new players and it needs to happen soon or there won’t be a game left to play...we need to get rid of these arbitrary restrictions (gear and cp grinding) to make the game more attractive to a wider audience to fill up those pvp servers again, in order to do that though strength needs to be tied to player skill and gear, not CP grind

Just my two cents, take away my 800+ CP tommorow I don’t care if it brings in more players it’s worth it

Long time forum lurker, first time poster.

I 100% agree with this. The game needs to be welcoming to new players wanting to PVP. Coming into PVP with an experience disadvantage is one thing, as many people have played for 3+ years, but when a new player also has explicit CP disadvantages, how do you expect to stay around. In my opinion grinding for MONTHS to be on equal footing with other players just drives people away, and it seems to me PVP populations are at an all time low.

Here's the thing. I have two accounts on PC/NA. I stopped playing one regularly over a year ago with about 750+ CP. And then I leveled a new account. So here's my perspective as a veteran player, playing on a fresh account.

Grinding to 160 cP for the gear cap was the most important thing. This wasn't that bad, but it did feel comparable to grinding a toon to VR16, but probably not quite as bad. Once I hit 160 CP, I played causally in NO-CP PVP. And honestly when it was populated during the last half of last year and earlier this year, it was great. All you needed was to be 160 CP and you were good to go. To be successful you needed experience and some good gear.

I pretty much quit playing when Morrowind dropped however. I stopped being able to find decent fights in no cp. The population disappeared. Could I have gone to Thornblade/Vivec? Sure. But I'm currently at about 450 CP after just casually PVPing for a year, I'd rather not. What's the point. I know the missing CP will put me at a disadvantage, for solo play especially, and I'll consistently lose fights that I would have better chances at with full CP. If there's no action in NO-CP, I'd rather not play at all. Point is I sure as hell don't care enough to grind to 690 CP to be competitive in CP campaigns.

If you were leveling a new account - how would you feel about grinding to 690 CP to be as effective in PVP as you currently are. I would bet most people would quit instead.

It takes new players way to long to get to end game pvp. I don't see how the game can hold someones attention for that long to reach the CP cap these days, while they get consistently beaten down by max CP players with years of experience over them, without just frustrated by being disadvantaged and just quit. In my opinion ZOS, needs to at least make everyone on equal footing in PVP. Take away CP in PVP all together .Give everyone max CP when they enter Cyrodiil. It doesn't matter. They just need to gain and retain new players. The CP system/grind, and lack of population in Sotha Sil completely discourages players from sticking around.

TL;DR
No new players, no longevity, no PVP for anyone.

kyle.wilson

I take it that not many people complaining about the "grind" for PVP, played an MMO before ESO.
With the CP system it is very ALT friendly, because you only have to half grind a char to 50 now. Instead of V16.

Playing a game like COD, Battlefield, or Madden maybe more into your liking. Don't get me wrong, I hate the grind for gear, but I can often work around sets I haven't completed. Yet, the grind for CP has never been easier than it is today, when CP first started the XP required to pick up 1 point was way higher than today.

ZOS, has consistently held events and reduced XP requirements to get new players up and running faster. The last few weeks were perfect opportunity for someone to use the event XP, training gear, and an XP pot to quickly level.

If you chose not to take advantage, that's your own fault, not ZeniMax.

Autumnhart

Thogard wrote: »

There's a huge skill gap in PvP.

But now there is also a character strength gap thanks to No CP being dead.

Agree.

KyuremBlack wrote: »

TL;DR
No new players, no longevity, no PVP for anyone.

The PVP population took a hit when Morrowind dropped. No new blood is no good for us. Extra barriers to entry beyond the natural - already steep - learning curve are moronic if we want people to fight.

doslekis

These posts keep popping up.

Why can't a new player compete against 3 year veterans?

Because one is new, and the other has played for 3 years.

New players were getting stomped on in battlegrounds when it was no CP and will continue to be stomped on in CP enabled.

Make a game with no grind players complain they're bored, make a game with a decent grind players complain it's not fair, takes too long.

Thunderknuckles

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

No one said anything about "expecting to be really good" as soon as you start playing. LOL There's a difference between a moderate learning curve and one hell of several months long grind of being routinely 1 and 2 shotted. Unless that never really changes. Still, I'll give it a try again.

La comprensión lectora importa, amigo.

Betsararie

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

No one said anything about "expecting to be really good" as soon as you start playing. LOL There's a difference between a moderate learning curve and one hell of several months long grind of being routinely 1 and 2 shotted. Unless that never really changes. Still, I'll give it a try again.

La comprensión lectora importa, amigo.

You're missing the underlying message, which is, "one must learn to play".

If you're spending SEVERAL MONTHS being one shotted, there is something wrong. Sorry, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Slot heavy armor. Play sorc. do something. You have to learn how to adapt and play so that you can prevent dying.

Some people CAN'T ever do that. Those people should maybe consider quitting or just being a tank. Nobody ever said it is suppposed to be easy.

But yeah.... if it's going that badly for you.... yeah something needs to be done. LOL

Sneaky-Snurr

OP, I think you should play in no-CP campaign.
The majority of PvP players are in CP-enabled campaigns. Plus, the inherent 'character power' in CP which usually corresponds with experience in PvP makes it a huge disparity between max CP players and the players with characters whose highest CP is only ~<CP300.

Hence, when in no-CP, whether it's max level or not; you will close the mentioned inherent CP power gap that is present in CP campaigns. I switched from CP to no-CP campaign and played religiously in it since pre-Morrowind days and my my, it was the best decision I've made in the PvP scene.
I believe no-CP gives a much better playing field for everyone as opposed to CP campaigns. That said, give no-CP a try, OP. Who knows, you may come to learn to love it as much as I did before.

VaranisArano

I generally don't get one or two shotted anymore from when I started playing in PVP. Even though I'm still a magDK healer primarily who can't kill anyone who's not a squishy vamp.

Part of that is probably because I now have max CP. But I suspect the real reason is...
A. I'm now wearing impenetrable armor. Not getting one shot by crit hits is a good thing.
B. I'm either wearing Plague Doctor or a set that boosts my heals and resistances.
C. I've learned when to not get in fights and when to heal through until someone with higher DPS saves my butt. (I'm a healer build, DPS is not my forte, sorry, and thanks to all the DPS who save me while i throw heals on you)
D. I've learned how to purge siege DOTs and other hard hitting players DOTs, when to block, when to shield, when to heal, when to line of sight, when to run screaming for the hills and when to run and hide in the nearest keep until I pop up on the wall pouring siege fire on my erstwhile pursuers.

So in short, I learned a lot about how to survive in Cyrodiil. I still die a lot - a healer doesn't want to be in a 1v1, obviously. But now I last longer before i die, mostly because I've learned how to last longer.

So if you also want to survive in Cyrodiil, I suggest you research the build you want to play. If that's solo, 1vX, Xv1, tank, healer, DPS, ganker, bomber, whatever, research it, build it, and when you bring it into Cyrodiil...in the words of Inigo Montoya, "Prepare to die." Executing the build in practice in Cyrodiil will be its own learning curve that goes beyond build, gear, and skills.

If you just want to run in larger groups like PUGs or an organized raid just for fun and without any particular build, I really enjoyed just throwing on a set of impenetrable Plague Doctor. This isn't going to get you any points with skilled PVPers, but it will keep you alive longer in battles and help you survive making mistakes a little longer than you would otherwise. Players will absolutely still murder you, but again, this set gives you the health to last a little bit longer and hopefully learn something as you fight, make mistakes, and figure out what works.

templesus

This game is catered towards casuals. Please stop

wildbear247

I'm at ~730cp, and I think it would be cool if CP campaigns let all players have max CP. It would motivate more new players to give PvP a shot, which would in turn create healthier PvP populations. I also enjoy the challenge of fighting opponents that aren't handicapped by having less CP than me...victory over a stronger opponent is more satisfying.

Any PvP'r that argues that a large CP gap between new & veteran players is okay, must also realize their stance results in lower PvP populations.

Let skill be the only factor in victory, not a CP gap. But IMO keep CP, because it allows for deeper character customization compared to non-CP.

Narvuntien

I have spent some time getting 1 shot... I feel like it is part of the learning process. A nessairy huberis.
My first few weeks of PVP: https://imgur.com/a/AwZvw
Untill I realised I needed a food buff, I also when i finially hit cp160 I chose a set with hp bonuses now it is much harder to 1 shot me.. unless its with fire rip vamp. I am about to lose my hp bonuses now the set I use got nerfed so I am going to have to change, probably using hp enchants since they are easier than redoing my stats

As I noted in a million other threads... living and dying and fighting is only like 50% of PVP, the other 50% is the huge chess match that is going on.

You just have to get over the idea that dying is bad... dying for no purpose is bad.

VaranisArano

Narvuntien wrote: »

As I noted in a million other threads... living and dying and fighting is only like 50% of PVP, the other 50% is the huge chess match that is going on.

You just have to get over the idea that dying is bad... dying for no purpose is bad.

This is totally true, on a strategic level groups may accept a wipe in one location to draw away defenders from a different location, enabling a faction victory. You might see players throw themselves time and again into doomed keep defenses in order to buy time for other faction players to get to the keep.

But even in a situation common to most PUGs, look no farther than the farming spots at Bleakers Outpost and the Alessia Bridge. Both of these are places where EP/DC or EP/AD often clash. These skirmishes see a lot of fighting, dying, pushing, retreating, and disorganized play. When I PUG, if there is no siege engines placed on Bleakers or Alessia, I fully expect to die in the fighting at some point, but as long as I make the AP to make it worth it I spent my time wisely. Then when the enemy pushes my faction back, I'll set up and defend the nearest keep/outpost and get more AP that way. If the enemy wasn't strong enough, hey, I'll be there to take the other keep/outpost. Even if I die, I can rez nearby and riding back to the fight.

Dying is a part of PVP. But as long as you are having fun, death is part of the game. Rez up and get back in the fight.

Inhuman003

Let me break it down to you run to another mmo you're going to realize that you're going to run right into a brick wall even if other mmo's gotten rid of some kind of champion point system or skill system or ranking you're going to still run into that brick wall. Play another type of mobile game like League of Legends, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Dragon Ball, Capcom versus marvel, Smash Brothers or something else that can be played online if some of those games can be played online with other people that can be competitive.

PlagueSD

New PvP idea...combat becomes a mini-game. each player has 3 seconds to choose 1 of a possible 3 glyphs. For simplicity, we'll call these glyphs rock, paper, and scissors. Based on what is chosen, the following outcomes are possible.

Rock beats scissors
Scissors beats paper
Paper beats rock.

There, perfect PvP balance!!!

Wing

PlagueSD wrote: »

New PvP idea...combat becomes a mini-game. each player has 3 seconds to choose 1 of a possible 3 glyphs. For simplicity, we'll call these glyphs rock, paper, and scissors. Based on what is chosen, the following outcomes are possible.

Rock beats scissors
Scissors beats paper
Paper beats rock.

There, perfect PvP balance!!!

didn't the matrix online use a system like that though?

also silliness and sarcasm does not negate the fact that PvP sucks right now, and will not get touched for several months now.

Kahina

Blanco wrote: »

You simply don't understand.... how bad BGs was back in the day it was a complete scrubfest. It was a scrubfest to a very large extent, it really was not fun in any way shape or form.

The positive part to CP being added is finally more good players are coming in, and the average skill cap has gone way up. This means that from that angle, BGs are more fun now.

Playing in a game where there are 1-2 good players max out of 12 is just not fun and a waste of time IMO. It was a joke how low a level some of the games were played at. I enjoy more challenging games with better fights/players.

If your reply is anything to go by, then the development dollars that exist in this game will likely go mostly to where those 10/12 players went. Back to PVE, away from PVP. Back to where it clearly belongs.

I'm not the one who simply doesn't understand. Have fun celebrating.

newtinmpls

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've been PVPing seriously for about a year now and I'm still learning how to react in certain situations. I'd have to put in a lot more effort to learn how to do certain builds like a good solo player, a ganker, a bomber, or a 1vXer even though I have max CP. Done well, those take skill and experience to execute properly to maximum effect. On the other hand, now that I know how Cyrodiil PVP works, I can take characters I'm leveling to level 50 and PVP comfortably with them because I know what to do. I have the experience that makes that possible.

Or to put this another way, you can pull a meta build, proper gear, the right skills, and max CP, and if you don't have the experience to use that build in PVP properly, you might as well be built of PVE gear and tissue paper. I know, I've been that person made of tissue paper with the build everyone swore up and down was OP. The best advantage in PVP is experience with your build and the battlefield. Your gear, your skills, and your CP all support your experience and the tactics you know how to utilize. Not the other way around.

Lovely point well said.

For me the process of learning the base game was reasonably fun.

The process of learning vet undaunted and the harder PvE content is less fun, but thank goodness for advice and tips on the interwebs, and thank goodness for players I like to play with.

For me the process of learning PvP has been .. not as fun.

A couple of times I've been lucky and had a guild officer/raid leader that gave clear, understandable directions that I could do.

Mostly I've died fast and gotten various unkind messages.

I get more than enough spastic crazy negative energy at work (psych emergency care) I want a slightly more relaxing environment for "play". I recognize that I'm hypersensitive, so I just go where I have the most fun.

gabormezo

While everyone has a point there, I believe what OP is facing is a simple ltp issue. I've been playing as a casual for a year and started to pvp for half year ago at 300 CP. And I was fine. Not very good, but fine.

I suggest that u should start with a very tanky toon, and at first you should concentrate on just to not die. Well placed 300 CP with a good gear is enough for that. I ran a MagDK that time built for block and self healing and that was fine.

Once u can stay alive u can start to learn how to kill people. For that I suggest to run a very stealthy character with a hit and run playstyle.

Once u can accumulate AP with both of your toons, u should be around 550-600 CP with PVP skills under your belt with u should be able to run any build u want.

The lack of population is because the poor rewards. Just think of the recent PvP events, how many players was around? So @ZOS please make playing PvP worth it!

Humperdoo

L2P not QQ

Bhaal5

Na pvp is general fine. They need to fix
-Lag..... All those load screens/dc's when you come across another 5 people.
-Throw away the different campaign rubbish. Account lock to a server, 1week fights (this has been explain in other posts on how to fix pvp).
The rest of pvp is fine and, funny enough its design for "group" play rather than solo joe

Wing

Humperdoo wrote: »

L2P not QQ

these posts are the most useless thing in the world and not worth the effort required to type the letters.

your post was bad and I would say "you should feel bad" but given your post I doubt you would take anything anyone said to you in a negative connotation seriously, or give it some kind of reflective thought, even if it came from close family or friends let alone random people on the internet.

so I wish you thusly:

some day you are going to play a game and get rekt, stomped, just annihilated by other players, you might try to improve (probably not) and you will most like cry foul or blame balance or something.

and when that happens know this: Karma has no deadline

Kahina

gabormezo wrote: »

The lack of population is because the poor rewards.

The lack of population is because you have two servers for a world wide audience. In a game with no latency equalization. They can't even code to have abilities fire reliably.

It is telling that the game provides no way to see what your opponents ping is. A staple of any decent PVP game. I should know. I've been playing them for 20 years.

Greater rewards will change nothing.

gabormezo

Kahina wrote: »

gabormezo wrote: »

The lack of population is because the poor rewards.

The lack of population is because you have two servers for a world wide audience. In a game with no latency equalization. They can't even code to have abilities fire reliably.

It is telling that the game provides no way to see what your opponents ping is. A staple of any decent PVP game. I should know. I've been playing them for 20 years.

Greater rewards will change nothing.

If gold mats could be bought by telvars, IC would be populated.

If mages and fighter guilds have a kiosk in Cryo offering quest like kill magicka or stamina opponents for guild experience. If Cryo have more ways to earn skill points. Cryo would be populated.

Brrrofski

Honestly, it's more experience than CP imo. Obviously CP does help, but it isn't:5 the be all end all.

A lot of us have moved from EU to NA on Xbox in the last few months. Mostly between 200 and 400 CP and we more than hold our own.

I have like 290 CP and was PVPing the other day and was doing just fine. Riding around solo and only time I got wrecked was when there was a few people on me. Other times I'd win fights (even a few 2/3 on 1) or just bout lose.

CP matters for sure, but experience on how to play and how to put a build together still reigns supreme.

Also, I 'd encourage everyone to make at least one of each class and play it a bit. Your understanding of how to counterplay people in PvP goes up hugely.

itscompton

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

With the cp system only being out a few months before the account copy I doubt any transfer had anywhere near that many cp. if they did they cheated or lying, But I agree with what ur trying to say

There were definitely a few people with 700-1000 cp that transferred over from PC when the game came out on PS4. I think only 3 had 1000+ but there were many players with 500+ at a time when basically all non-transfers were not yet 100. Every time I went into PvP those first few months I'd see 2-3 of those people destroy 30-40 man zergs of the "new" players.

Enslaved

All PvP should have 2 modes.

• CP - for what OP calls "veterans" and ppl who don't mind grown up's PvP
• non CP - for new players, children and "veterans" that have need to kill new players

Kahina

gabormezo wrote: »

If gold mats could be bought by telvars, IC will be populated.

If mages and fighter guilds have a kiosk in Cryo offering quest like kill magicka or stamina opponents for guild experience. If Cryo have more ways to earn skill points. Cryo will be populated.

Those Telvars can already buy things that sell for a pretty sum. As can alliance points.

The rest is a poorly disguised request for the exact same PVP fodder that the development dollars will follow back to PVE.

Cyrodill will not be populated. Not until it becomes a pure PVE zone.

Humperdoo

Wing wrote: »

Humperdoo wrote: »

L2P not QQ

these posts are the most useless thing in the world and not worth the effort required to type the letters.

your post was bad and I would say "you should feel bad" but given your post I doubt you would take anything anyone said to you in a negative connotation seriously, or give it some kind of reflective thought, even if it came from close family or friends let alone random people on the internet.

so I wish you thusly:

some day you are going to play a game and get rekt, stomped, just annihilated by other players, you might try to improve (probably not) and you will most like cry foul or blame balance or something.

and when that happens know this: Karma has no deadline

LOL.