PVP is now only playable by veteran players

FloppyTouch

itscompton wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

With the cp system only being out a few months before the account copy I doubt any transfer had anywhere near that many cp. if they did they cheated or lying, But I agree with what ur trying to say

There were definitely a few people with 700-1000 cp that transferred over from PC when the game came out on PS4. I think only 3 had 1000+ but there were many players with 500+ at a time when basically all non-transfers were not yet 100. Every time I went into PvP those first few months I'd see 2-3 of those people destroy 30-40 man zergs of the "new" players.

I know I had 200cp and was grinding like crazy before the copy I’m sure some hit 500 but cp use to be very hard to get.

Also many players when the game came out where very easy to kill. I’m not a good player by any means and I was able to take out zergs solo. A lot of people just didn’t know how to play. I killed 15 ppl with one shooting star and talons spamming them in it. I think a lot of people saw this and said wow these guys must have a 1000 cp.

I knew there was some cheat that people used to farm cp or a guild that did it but I thought they got bann. I also know that ZoS gave us cp for every VR14 character we had or each VR lvl but that still was not huge forgot the amount per VR14.

If you have ss or saved images from these cp 1000 at the start would love to see them but I think these guys are lying.

Even now with playing everyday I’m just a little over 1000 cp

Humperdoo

Ilithyania

Optional CP based BGs for those who wanna get into the game is a good idea.

pieratsos

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

No one said anything about "expecting to be really good" as soon as you start playing. LOL There's a difference between a moderate learning curve and one hell of several months long grind of being routinely 1 and 2 shotted. Unless that never really changes. Still, I'll give it a try again.

La comprensión lectora importa, amigo.

You're missing the underlying message, which is, "one must learn to play".

If you're spending SEVERAL MONTHS being one shotted, there is something wrong. Sorry, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Slot heavy armor. Play sorc. do something. You have to learn how to adapt and play so that you can prevent dying.

Some people CAN'T ever do that. Those people should maybe consider quitting or just being a tank. Nobody ever said it is suppposed to be easy.

But yeah.... if it's going that badly for you.... yeah something needs to be done. LOL

You are the one missing the underlying message.

CP is not good for PVP. Period. The fact that its also not friendly to new players its a bonus so they finally realize that their stupid system in its current form doesnt lead anywhere and its destroying their game. And no, making the system frontloaded in morrowind didnt help. It made things even worse. Its literally punishing low CP players even more.

And CP BGs is just another bs. You do not destroy ur gameplay just for the sake of bringing more players in. This is called milking money. What you should do is improve ur gameplay and people will naturally come in and give you their money.

CP in PVP just doesnt work in its current form. It never did and it never will.

Tirps

As always, skills > champion rank

Loc2262

Pwnyridah wrote: »

Just get in a zerg in equestrian scrolls online and siege away.

Yes, the "Equestrian Simulator Online" portion of Cyrodiil is a big contribution to why I don't PVP in this game. Even getting the non-PVP parts of it (dolmens, delves, quests) is a hassle without a means to fast-travel from anywhere.

wazzz56

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

@Koolio bruh the early game strugggle was real.......getting face melted by vet rank players before I had unlocked bar swapping, 125635836 lowbies smacking a v14 dk to no avail.....I am actually grinning right now thinking about my noobishness.....Remember the grind for vigor? when a sorc with inev det and curse insta death for my squish blade....I was soo jealous the first time I saw somebody with Engine Guardian......nostalgic rant done

wazzz56

Blanco wrote: »

Kahina wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

..... One upside is the average player skill has gone way up, so matches are a lot more fun because a lot of the 'less effective' players have been forced out....

Not sure what your intention was, but I think you just validated the original post.

Must be a really good PVP system if players are being forced out.

You simply don't understand.... how bad BGs was back in the day it was a complete scrubfest. It was a scrubfest to a very large extent, it really was not fun in any way shape or form.

The positive part to CP being added is finally more good players are coming in, and the average skill cap has gone way up. This means that from that angle, BGs are more fun now.

Playing in a game where there are 1-2 good players max out of 12 is just not fun and a waste of time IMO. It was a joke how low a level some of the games were played at. I enjoy more challenging games with better fights/players.

I played the hell out of bg's when they came out, finished 1st on leaderboards yaddd yadda yadda and got bored very quickl...because it was, for the most part not very competitive... I should not go 20-1-19 on a templar who was set up for healing at the time, but that is how it was...then bgs became the place where cheese and aids resided and it was even less tempting to play, I will give them another shot when CWC drops on consoles...we shall see

moonio

Make some training armour, get an XP scroll (or 3)then head over to Spellscar in Craglorn, you can form a group with a few players and burn through the XP.

Spellscar rewards some of the highest xp in the game and you can get the max xp from fighting in the Storm Atronach area

Kevduit has made a video here
https://youtu.be/ZXTZ0DIQ9rE

SoLooney

so your excuse is you get your a$$ handed to you every bg game and you blame your losses on higher cp players.

team up with friends or guildies or just dont bg, simple as that. people complaining about activities that they dont like and still do it, dont understand people.

enabling cp was a bad move on zos, ill give you that but it still takes skill and good gear to do well even in non cp bg

Biro123

Its the single biggest problem with PVP in pretty much every mmo I've played.

MMO players demand progression (even PVPers)

Good players win more fights and so progress faster, getting greater rewards making their character more powerful

Poor players lose more fights so progress more slowly - and once they are outpaced by the better players because of the difference in character strength AS WELL AS player skill - their progression rate slows even further.

Then as the game matures more:
Good players gravitate towards other good players to group with multiplying their effectiveness further.
Poor players grouping together is a much smaller multiplier as they often aren't playing to each others strengths.

And more:
The poor players who stuck around are becoming competent now and their characters stronger just due to sheer time played (one of the reasons why 1vx is now harder - its not all about ZoS decisions/certain skills imho)

Newer players haven't a chance against even the old 'poor players' for the same reasons they originally struggled vs the good. Only the difference now is that originally it was maybe 10% good and 90% avg/poor - so there was still a lot of even playing field for the poor players - now its more like 95% good and competent and 5% new. So in every fight the new player has a massive uphill struggle.

Its like a golf handicap but backwards.. instead of handicapping the good player so you can have a competetive game, MMO's handicap the bad player instead to turn the 10-0 game into a 50-0 game.

Its what makes the PVP aspect of most MMO's only have a finite lifespan. New players won't (can't) stay - older players eventually get bored/try other games.... Population slowly dwindles over time

Sad, but true.

Tan9oSuccka

I have 900 plus CPs. Honestly, no CP Cyrodiil is much more enjoyable.

Siege weapons matter, guards don’t mess around and cheesy builds aren’t augmented by CP to be even cheesier.

Players seem less salty/toxic overall.

Rainraven

Biro123 wrote: »

Its the single biggest problem with PVP in pretty much every mmo I've played.

MMO players demand progression (even PVPers)

Good players win more fights and so progress faster, getting greater rewards making their character more powerful

Poor players lose more fights so progress more slowly - and once they are outpaced by the better players because of the difference in character strength AS WELL AS player skill - their progression rate slows even further.

Then as the game matures more:
Good players gravitate towards other good players to group with multiplying their effectiveness further.
Poor players grouping together is a much smaller multiplier as they often aren't playing to each others strengths.

And more:
The poor players who stuck around are becoming competent now and their characters stronger just due to sheer time played (one of the reasons why 1vx is now harder - its not all about ZoS decisions/certain skills imho)

Newer players haven't a chance against even the old 'poor players' for the same reasons they originally struggled vs the good. Only the difference now is that originally it was maybe 10% good and 90% avg/poor - so there was still a lot of even playing field for the poor players - now its more like 95% good and competent and 5% new. So in every fight the new player has a massive uphill struggle.

Its like a golf handicap but backwards.. instead of handicapping the good player so you can have a competetive game, MMO's handicap the bad player instead to turn the 10-0 game into a 50-0 game.

Its what makes the PVP aspect of most MMO's only have a finite lifespan. New players won't (can't) stay - older players eventually get bored/try other games.... Population slowly dwindles over time

Sad, but true.

It's exactly like that! Well said.

VaranisArano

newtinmpls wrote: »

For me the process of learning PvP has been .. not as fun.

A couple of times I've been lucky and had a guild officer/raid leader that gave clear, understandable directions that I could do.

Mostly I've died fast and gotten various unkind messages.

I get more than enough spastic crazy negative energy at work (psych emergency care) I want a slightly more relaxing environment for "play". I recognize that I'm hypersensitive, so I just go where I have the most fun.

This was more or less my experience of learning PVP too! Minus the unkind messages, since I didn't even rate that,

I definitely found that I learned the most when I was PUGing on the tailcoats of an organized raid. Playing with fellow disorganized players was great for learning the ebb and flow of battle, but running with or following an organized raid was the thing that really made a difference - because I was staying alive long enough to learn something about what worked and what didn't work.

I wound up joining one of those organized raids and learning how to PVP with them. Now when I PUG, I take a lot of that experience and bring it down to solo or small group play, but I learned how to PVP from hanging with the group, because otherwise I didn't live long enough to learn anything more than what abilities killed me.

In my opinion, zerging and zerg surfing is a vital lifeline for players new to PVP as it helps them learn how to be effective in PVP when they are going to die quickly and ineffectively on their own. It certainly helped me grow from zerging to raiding, and from there to being moderately effective in a small group. My solo play is pretty well limited to NPC-guarded resources and flagging objectives.

badmojo

300 cp is enough for vivec. No matter how low you are your cc still cc's, your scouting still helps, your heals and buffs still help. Just becaise you arent carrying the fight doesnt mean you arent contributing.

Sylosi

Elsterchen wrote: »

I believe there is a misconception on side of the OP: accumulated CP are only the cherry on top of the PVP-cake.
... and to all those ppl eagerly trying to disagree at this point: Yes it helps having alot of CP...

People will disagree because you are are talking nonsense, CP is not "the cherry on top of the cake", that phrase means something is of little significance, when the reality is CP is of huge signifcance, get two equal skilled players one with 100 CP one with max CP and the result will be obvious the vast majority of the time, that is not skill based PvP that is the opposite.

Elsterchen wrote: »

Only good PVPers get another advantage: Many Cps mean some Cps may be used to polish up damage done. Later only comes into play once you know how to PVP.

Actually it just compounds the problem between experienced players and new players, if a new player goes and plays say SC2 (an actual skilled PvP game unlike the joke that ESO), the only difference between the best player in the game and a total new comer is skill (experience, practice, knowledge, mechanical ability, etc), other than that it is a level playing field, which is what good, successful PvP games are based on.

Then you have the other dismal failing of a game like ESO there is no real competitive or skilled PvP which is bad for everyone other than nabcakes, only in a game with a playerbase this bad is the idea that "skilled PvP" is a guy who has been playing 3 years on a build designed for 1vX beating new players, players with low CP / gear, in zerg builds, etc considered "skilled" or a pre-made of experienced players in a BG rolling face across the keyboard against less experienced players solo, in actual skilled PvP games the basis is you want players of a similar skill level playing against each other, if I were matched against bronze players in SC2 I'd think the game was broken and that is was just wasting my time, in ESO the playerbase is so bad that is considered "skilled PvP".

Which is just one of the reasons no one takes MMORPGs seriously in regard to PvP or skill, and why actual PvP games can have tens of millions of players far more than even the biggest MMORPG, because they have meaningful gameplay, meanwhile PvP continues to fail miserably in MMORPGs because it is essentially trash.

Koolio

wazzz56 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

@Koolio bruh the early game strugggle was real.......getting face melted by vet rank players before I had unlocked bar swapping, 125635836 lowbies smacking a v14 dk to no avail.....I am actually grinning right now thinking about my noobishness.....Remember the grind for vigor? when a sorc with inev det and curse insta death for my squish blade....I was soo jealous the first time I saw somebody with Engine Guardian......nostalgic rant done

The Steel tornado batswarm combo with 24 people hitting proxy det all at the same time. Camo hunter 1 shots (Omg) Magic Sorc Emps with clouding swarm and streaks.

About the only thing I could do for 6 months was gank people off their mounts or snipe. Even watched some old videos of mine and I cringed when I see my stats or bar settings. Like wrecking blow swallow soul and cripple lol. I had 25k Health Magic and Stamina with like 1600 WD. It was sad.

But in all seriousness they need to double the rate in which CP are earned.

When I first jump into pvp I loved it. I had never seen such large battles before. I would go in get killed a few times knowing that I had no clue. So I decided that was what I wanted to do in this game. I spent the next 6 month trying every move morph and spec for my nightblade. I learned my class to it full extent. Through pve. Then I hit vet 14 myself ( right when they changed it to vet 16) I thought I was ready. Went into pvp like " oh yea I'm max level and ready to be a god". I was wrong.

Still took me a full 6 months after max level( I had no mentor or crew yet the casual friends all moved on from when I started) to even stand and fight.

At that was against anybody. Still cloaked away at the first sign of danger and ran like a a skeever. But it kept me coming back everyday for hours on end. Even at 1000+ cp I not the best. I would rate myself a 7 compared to some of the people I play with and fight. So I think they have it easy. If it's still discouraging then let them get CP easier like a lot easier. Would rather fight speed leveled max CP players all day then kill people who are just learning the basics.

We need to have the campaigns full first and foremost. I remember 5 campaigns all pop lock at almost any given time.

Rickter

I think the game is still rather accessible to new players. there is a non vet noCP campaign, and a vet noCP campaign (though its health i cant vouch for).

In any case, all it takes is finding a guild that has the patience to teach new players. I recruited a guy yesterday that didnt know you could hold down sprint on a horse. Seriously. And you know what? Im going to mold him into the tip of the spear wrought with iron will.

A lady started pvping during midyear mayhem and through us, has gotten empress twice and is now confident to run in 4 man cyrodiil groups when before, she wouldnt have even considered stepping into cyrodiil.

So it can be done. You just need to meet the right people.

Nogawd

Meh.

There are good and bad players. CP does not make a bad player great. Sore losers like to blame the CP for why they got nuked though. Every excuse but their play. You see that theme a lot here.

Kahina

Biro123 wrote: »

Its the single biggest problem with PVP in pretty much every mmo I've played.

MMO players demand progression (even PVPers)

Good players win more fights and so progress faster, getting greater rewards making their character more powerful

Poor players lose more fights so progress more slowly - and once they are outpaced by the better players because of the difference in character strength AS WELL AS player skill - their progression rate slows even further.

Then as the game matures more:
Good players gravitate towards other good players to group with multiplying their effectiveness further.
Poor players grouping together is a much smaller multiplier as they often aren't playing to each others strengths.

And more:
The poor players who stuck around are becoming competent now and their characters stronger just due to sheer time played (one of the reasons why 1vx is now harder - its not all about ZoS decisions/certain skills imho)

Newer players haven't a chance against even the old 'poor players' for the same reasons they originally struggled vs the good. Only the difference now is that originally it was maybe 10% good and 90% avg/poor - so there was still a lot of even playing field for the poor players - now its more like 95% good and competent and 5% new. So in every fight the new player has a massive uphill struggle.

Its like a golf handicap but backwards.. instead of handicapping the good player so you can have a competetive game, MMO's handicap the bad player instead to turn the 10-0 game into a 50-0 game.

Its what makes the PVP aspect of most MMO's only have a finite lifespan. New players won't (can't) stay - older players eventually get bored/try other games.... Population slowly dwindles over time

Sad, but true.

Leaving latency (which I will forever rage about) out of things, this guy (girl?) get's it.

Unlock everything for everyone. Separate PVP and PVE entirely. PVE is for progression. PVP is for domination.

The reward is the pedestal you get to stand upon.

Elsterchen

@Sylosi

People will disagree because you are are talking nonsense, CP is not "the cherry on top of the cake", that phrase means something is of little significance, when the reality is CP is of huge signifcance, get two equal skilled players one with 100 CP one with max CP and the result will be obvious the vast majority of the time, that is not skill based PvP that is the opposite.

I am fine to agree, that we disagree. I can only rely on my own experience and i've been in Cyrodiil since level 10. At that time there was no level 10-49 campaign and usually my enemies have been much stronger. I am not at level cap and since I don't play on a daily basis I probably won't reach level cap ever. This doesn't keep me from beating players that had and still have significantly more CP than myself (and some of them I kind of "meet" since years now). equally, I am pretty sure there are players out there that will continue giving me some serious butt hurting... but imo, thats not because they have more CP, because its a fact: some of them don't.

@Sylosi

I have no idea what SC2 is ... I figure you mean star craft 2 (?) ... which is a strategy game to start with, hence not really comparable to ESO (?)... regardless:

the only difference between the best player in the game and a total new comer is skill (experience, practice, knowledge, mechanical ability, etc), other than that it is a level playing field, which is what good, successful PvP games are based on.

Again, i would like to agree that we disagree. In my perception ( and maybe because of my experience with eso-PVP see above) your very definition of skill is exactly what differs beween a seasoned PVPer and a new-PVPer in ESO. Enhancing that skill, thats what people mean when they say: learn to play your build/character... or trying hard to be cool "l2p".
-> After all everything else can be read up/ viewed in the forums/youtube etc etc.

While the 2 of us disagree with each other (which I think is fine, different perspectives make life interesting, imo) we can agree that both of us are not alone with our individual perception (as the many comments in this thread show).

vovus69

There is a diff between CP and no CP. I felt it myself when visit different campaigns. Keep in mind that if you are playing with CP all the time, it is really hard to switch to no CP. You will feel like twice weaker and your usual rotation might not work in no CP case. I am going there only when I see the campaign which is dominated by my alliance and I want to do PVE in Cyro or grind IC for Tel Var. And even in this case I am changing the skills, rotation, etc. So, this will be like 10 years in the past. You will not like it.

-vovus

IcyDeadPeople

Been playing on my lowbies in the main 30-day (or 90-day) standard Cyrodiil campaigns since beta and it has never seemed at any particular time that you have to be above 50 to kill other players.

If anything, the level scaling is much stronger these days, and encourages lowbie players to actually gear up, because you get more benefit from using purple gear that is close to your level. You lack some passives of course, but your stats are quite high, sometimes higher than most max level players.

br0steen

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

Ah yes I remember those days.

Koolio

br0steen wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

Ah yes I remember those days.

I've been trying to find a specific video of a MDK vamp emperor outside of aleswell killing 25-40 people. Can't find it though.

Wreuntzylla

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Yeah.. uh.. did you think you'd be a top tier contender straight out of the box? You've got to invest if you want to succeed, that means losing more than you win.

LOL. I have multiple accounts and the worst grind ever was adding another account and grinding CP. That has nothing to do with "losing more than you win," which anyone new to PvP in ESO, even experienced PvPers from other games, will face.

Girl_Number8

This is an issue? To me, the crying snowflakes have had it dumbed down to a boring couple classes all playing pretty much the same builds. The diversity has long gone out of the window. To be able to be good at PvP is not a solo matter like those edited YouTube clips would have you believe. It takes a coordinated group with set roles and people that enjoy playing together. PVP is the true endgame trial.<3

BG's needs more modes for the player population not a lazy solution. If you can make taller races sit into chairs properly, as I read from the natch potes, this should be an easy one to fix.

Rainraven

vovus69 wrote: »

There is a diff between CP and no CP. I felt it myself when visit different campaigns. Keep in mind that if you are playing with CP all the time, it is really hard to switch to no CP. You will feel like twice weaker and your usual rotation might not work in no CP case. I am going there only when I see the campaign which is dominated by my alliance and I want to do PVE in Cyro or grind IC for Tel Var. And even in this case I am changing the skills, rotation, etc. So, this will be like 10 years in the past. You will not like it.

-vovus

Yeah, that's not a small issue as long as they keep insisting PVE and PVP can't and never will be separated. If they even gave us a loadout switch - for free, that's also not a small issue - whenever we entered Cyrodiil, it would be a big help. When I play in non-CP I end up just parking that toon there for a week or two and doing no PVE at all. (And do I feel crazy powerful when I do go back to PVE!)

Waffennacht

CP or no CP, the forums made the difference for me. How to correctly AC abilities, what key character movements to look for, formulas for damage calculations, burst combos, stat importance and application, the true significance of potions, poisons, and enchantments, key buffs and applications, area denial, Los, blockable vs dodgeable vs reflect vs absorb vs miss, and more.

All things I learned, things most players don't know.

CP definitely has an influence, however the build certainly matters. I.e. destroyed a max CP character over and over again, a 300 CP bis meta dk could win against me.

NyassaV

1. L2P
2. Don't buy a game and expect to be as good as everyone who has played it for years
3. I teach