Explosive Charge Morph

IV_Deity · November 2017

Let me get directly to the point. Looking at Templar skills, most are magic. I love my stamina Templar and I would like a different gap-closer other than critical charge.

I personally think Explosive Charge (other morph of toppling Charge) should be the same as its magic counterpart, but be based off of stamina instead.

Thoughts?

Apherius · November 2017

IV_Deity wrote: »

Let me get directly to the point. Looking at Templar skills, most are magic. I love my stamina Templar and I would like a different gapcloset other than critical charge.

I personally think Explosive Charge (other morph of toppling Charge) should be the same as its magic counterpart, but be based off of stamina instead.

Thoughts?

Don't worry ,wrobel will make " both morph interresting " he will remove the stun from toppling charge and put in on explosive charge... a day :P just take a look to crystal blast , there is something like 0,002% of sorc using this morph now instead of the previous 0,001%.

IV_Deity · November 2017

Apherius wrote: »

IV_Deity wrote: »

Let me get directly to the point. Looking at Templar skills, most are magic. I love my stamina Templar and I would like a different gapcloset other than critical charge.

I personally think Explosive Charge (other morph of toppling Charge) should be the same as its magic counterpart, but be based off of stamina instead.

Thoughts?

Don't worry ,wrobel will make " both morph interresting " he will remove the stun from toppling charge and put in on explosive charge... a day :P just take a look to crystal blast , there is something like 0,002% of sorc using this morph now instead of the previous 0,001%.

Lol I would hope not. I just want them both to be the same but one stamina and one magicka. I would like to utilize more class skills as a stamina Templar.

Oakmontowls_ESO · November 2017

Just make it work with the tormentor set and then people will use that morph

IV_Deity · November 2017

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Just make it work with the tormentor set and then people will use that morph

I think you missed my point entirely.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2017

Use silver leash.

Baconlad · November 2017

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

Baconlad · November 2017

But on explosive charge, maybe they can give it a different effect that could help stamina, like a utility effect. Give it a stun, and make it give like minor damage done buff for 6 seconds or someshit. Theud have to give toppling charge something different to counter than though. Maybe increased damage.

The point is, as stamina if you want a stun and a gap closer wrapped all into one package, thats fine. But theres nothing stopping you from using toppling charge. The damage is going to be weak AF, but its still an option, i dont ever count on toppling charge damage anyway as magic, its weak.

Having id that before you call BS. Consider that for the longest time and still, magplars have forgone light attack and heavy attack damage for DW swords. We suffer through not having light attacks...because the benefits of DW swords outweighs light attack weaves. Were talking like 500 damage light attacks compared to your 2k+ light attacks...pretty large difference added up. I have also used and still do occasionally sword and board bash ability to give me a major defile and melee range stun, it costs a *** ton of stam, and doesnt hit for hardly any noticable damage...but i choose to use it as utility and not worry about the damage.

So consider that, instead of trying to steal another magic ability from us magplars. Like who uses crescent sweep as stamina? DBOS is much better...even FDB is better and then weapon ults. OP...why would you use crescent? All t change did was take away the best burst ultimate from magplar we had...its ok, zeni is obsessed with taking locking us into SA or meteor...which are good but too easy to counter...would rather use crescent

IV_Deity · November 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

Meh. I am not surprised that you're against this, considering you're a magic Templar. Lol. This wouldn't be stealing anything from you. Do you even use that morph? No. It's an unused skill.

Stamina gets weapon ultimate but I barely see people using the 2H ultimate. Sometimes I spot people utilizing the bow ultimate but that's it. Don't complain about stamina ultimate when you have the destro ultimate at your disposal. Lol

Minno · November 2017

normally i want stamplars to get some love, but heres why the charge should remain magic based:
- there are already 3 gap closers for stamina builds (1 for 2h and 1 for SnB with 1 universal.) If you have access to crit rush, im not sure why you want the templar charge? Crit rush would give you a crit everytime, and do additional dmg based on the distance which scale off your WD+stamina. Would you give up this charge for a 3.5k charge before mitigations that only has a 25% chance to proc 5k burning light before battlespirit?
- there are already 3 stamina morphs (4 if you count burning light procs) in the spear tree. One of those morphs gives major savagery for crit. You might have to give up one of those morphs to gain the stamina charge, which would it be?
- explosive charge is undogable aoe that procs burning light. It is undodgable because its a mag based AOE. If this becomes stamina morph, it might lose that undodgable component and weaken magplars, who don't have mobility options outside of vampire.

Now stamplars can still use the mag based charge for a mag dump, to keep stamina for better dmg+heals and it will still proc burning light because the dmg that proc deals, is based off your max stat regardless of the ability's resource archtype.

Changing charge to stamina, would be doing the same change creasant sweeps change did; it took away the only burst ultimate magplars had to give to stamplars which had already 2 options (dawnbreaker of smitting + two hander ultimate.) But since most stamplars used dawnbreaker (id wager over 90%), the morph change handicapped magplars to the point where we now are using dawnbreaker because there are no viable burst ultimates.

React · November 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. weapon ultis in pvp? Should we take a look at the statistics on who uses which weapon ultimates and for what purposever? DW ulti is nearly useless in pvp. The 2h ultimate is a niche ability and is almost unused, because it generally just can't compare to DBOS while being single target and costing much more, AND it has no cc. The bow ulti isnt terrible and you actually are starting to see it a bit more in pvp, however that being said bow is almost strictly a back bar weapon, therefore in most cases the ulti won't be hitting as hard as it could be, and you can literally dodge roll twice and avoid almost all of ballista's damage. Sword and board ulti, while strong, got a cost increase in CWC and sword and board is used almost as much by magicka classes as it is stamina, and it is arguably more effective on magicka than stamina.

Now let's look at the magicka weapon ultis. Destro ultimate is currently the large scale tool of choice, doing high damage in a large radius that is unblockable and undodgeable. There is almost no more competition between destro ulti and soul tether when it comes to bombing, because of destro's obvious advantages. In small scale, the most effective tool for fighting outnumbered offensive wise still tends to be destro ult, with good group composition.

Resto ult. One of the strongest solo/small scale survivability tools in the game. Popping one of these low cost defensive ultis can make you nearly unkillable vs 2-5 people for a short period of time, while also providing you with a myriad of buffs and allowing you to get some of the most resource-valuable heavy attacks in the game off (resto heavies). This low cost defesnsive ulti, while also receiving a cost increase in CWC, is generally regarded as being stronger than the shield ulti, while being uniquely available to magicka classes (whereas magicka can easily utilize the sword and board ulti without sacrificing an entire bar to utility - Stamina classes with resto staves back barred can only use that bar for utility).

Please tell me more about how stamina should only be able to use weapon skill lines when magicka has what is generally regarded as the strongest offensive ulti and what is generally regarded as the strongest defensive ulti.. very ignorant thing to say.

Minno · November 2017

Liam12548 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. weapon ultis in pvp? Should we take a look at the statistics on who uses which weapon ultimates and for what purposever? DW ulti is nearly useless in pvp. The 2h ultimate is a niche ability and is almost unused, because it generally just can't compare to DBOS while being single target and costing much more, AND it has no cc. The bow ulti isnt terrible and you actually are starting to see it a bit more in pvp, however that being said bow is almost strictly a back bar weapon, therefore in most cases the ulti won't be hitting as hard as it could be, and you can literally dodge roll twice and avoid almost all of ballista's damage. Sword and board ulti, while strong, got a cost increase in CWC and sword and board is used almost as much by magicka classes as it is stamina, and it is arguably more effective on magicka than stamina.

Now let's look at the magicka weapon ultis. Destro ultimate is currently the large scale tool of choice, doing high damage in a large radius that is unblockable and undodgeable. There is almost no more competition between destro ulti and soul tether when it comes to bombing, because of destro's obvious advantages. In small scale, the most effective tool for fighting outnumbered offensive wise still tends to be destro ult, with good group composition.

Resto ult. One of the strongest solo/small scale survivability tools in the game. Popping one of these low cost defensive ultis can make you nearly unkillable vs 2-5 people for a short period of time, while also providing you with a myriad of buffs and allowing you to get some of the most resource-valuable heavy attacks in the game off (resto heavies). This low cost defesnsive ulti, while also receiving a cost increase in CWC, is generally regarded as being stronger than the shield ulti, while being uniquely available to magicka classes (whereas magicka can easily utilize the sword and board ulti without sacrificing an entire bar to utility - Stamina classes with resto staves back barred can only use that bar for utility).

Please tell me more about how stamina should only be able to use weapon skill lines when magicka has what is generally regarded as the strongest offensive ulti and what is generally regarded as the strongest defensive ulti.. very ignorant thing to say.

what does this have to do with changing the magplar's only form of gap closer to give stamina a 4th gap closer they won't use?

React · November 2017

Minno wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. weapon ultis in pvp? Should we take a look at the statistics on who uses which weapon ultimates and for what purposever? DW ulti is nearly useless in pvp. The 2h ultimate is a niche ability and is almost unused, because it generally just can't compare to DBOS while being single target and costing much more, AND it has no cc. The bow ulti isnt terrible and you actually are starting to see it a bit more in pvp, however that being said bow is almost strictly a back bar weapon, therefore in most cases the ulti won't be hitting as hard as it could be, and you can literally dodge roll twice and avoid almost all of ballista's damage. Sword and board ulti, while strong, got a cost increase in CWC and sword and board is used almost as much by magicka classes as it is stamina, and it is arguably more effective on magicka than stamina.

Now let's look at the magicka weapon ultis. Destro ultimate is currently the large scale tool of choice, doing high damage in a large radius that is unblockable and undodgeable. There is almost no more competition between destro ulti and soul tether when it comes to bombing, because of destro's obvious advantages. In small scale, the most effective tool for fighting outnumbered offensive wise still tends to be destro ult, with good group composition.

Resto ult. One of the strongest solo/small scale survivability tools in the game. Popping one of these low cost defensive ultis can make you nearly unkillable vs 2-5 people for a short period of time, while also providing you with a myriad of buffs and allowing you to get some of the most resource-valuable heavy attacks in the game off (resto heavies). This low cost defesnsive ulti, while also receiving a cost increase in CWC, is generally regarded as being stronger than the shield ulti, while being uniquely available to magicka classes (whereas magicka can easily utilize the sword and board ulti without sacrificing an entire bar to utility - Stamina classes with resto staves back barred can only use that bar for utility).

Please tell me more about how stamina should only be able to use weapon skill lines when magicka has what is generally regarded as the strongest offensive ulti and what is generally regarded as the strongest defensive ulti.. very ignorant thing to say.

what does this have to do with changing the magplar's only form of gap closer to give stamina a 4th gap closer they won't use?

I was responding to the misinformation in his argument against the topic. As a life time stamplar main I obviously am bias for this change and it is one I have advocated for in the past. The argument for it is that obviously, explosive charge is an unused morph and any build diversity added to the game is welcome, especially with stam classes that often have universally similar offensive rotations due to the relevant weapon skill lines being so critical in pvp, and due to the far fewer number of stamina vs magicka classes morphs. Yes, crit rush and invasion are both options, but they have their drawbacks and are tied to a specific weapon. The utility of being able to run a gap closer on a dual wield bar is huge.

Minno · November 2017

Liam12548 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. weapon ultis in pvp? Should we take a look at the statistics on who uses which weapon ultimates and for what purposever? DW ulti is nearly useless in pvp. The 2h ultimate is a niche ability and is almost unused, because it generally just can't compare to DBOS while being single target and costing much more, AND it has no cc. The bow ulti isnt terrible and you actually are starting to see it a bit more in pvp, however that being said bow is almost strictly a back bar weapon, therefore in most cases the ulti won't be hitting as hard as it could be, and you can literally dodge roll twice and avoid almost all of ballista's damage. Sword and board ulti, while strong, got a cost increase in CWC and sword and board is used almost as much by magicka classes as it is stamina, and it is arguably more effective on magicka than stamina.

Now let's look at the magicka weapon ultis. Destro ultimate is currently the large scale tool of choice, doing high damage in a large radius that is unblockable and undodgeable. There is almost no more competition between destro ulti and soul tether when it comes to bombing, because of destro's obvious advantages. In small scale, the most effective tool for fighting outnumbered offensive wise still tends to be destro ult, with good group composition.

Resto ult. One of the strongest solo/small scale survivability tools in the game. Popping one of these low cost defensive ultis can make you nearly unkillable vs 2-5 people for a short period of time, while also providing you with a myriad of buffs and allowing you to get some of the most resource-valuable heavy attacks in the game off (resto heavies). This low cost defesnsive ulti, while also receiving a cost increase in CWC, is generally regarded as being stronger than the shield ulti, while being uniquely available to magicka classes (whereas magicka can easily utilize the sword and board ulti without sacrificing an entire bar to utility - Stamina classes with resto staves back barred can only use that bar for utility).

Please tell me more about how stamina should only be able to use weapon skill lines when magicka has what is generally regarded as the strongest offensive ulti and what is generally regarded as the strongest defensive ulti.. very ignorant thing to say.

what does this have to do with changing the magplar's only form of gap closer to give stamina a 4th gap closer they won't use?

I was responding to the misinformation in his argument against the topic. As a life time stamplar main I obviously am bias for this change and it is one I have advocated for in the past. The argument for it is that obviously, explosive charge is an unused morph and any build diversity added to the game is welcome, especially with stam classes that often have universally similar offensive rotations due to the relevant weapon skill lines being so critical in pvp, and due to the far fewer number of stamina vs magicka classes morphs. Yes, crit rush and invasion are both options, but they have their drawbacks and are tied to a specific weapon. The utility of being able to run a gap closer on a dual wield bar is huge.

Templar charge, even if it gets changed, would you use it over crit rush? The spell does 2k dmg in pvp for magplars, compared to always granted 5-6k crit for crit rush. And a majority of cyro runs two hander in some form for the rally heal+major brutality buff. I don't imagine stamplars running to use the templar charge anytime soon.

Regarding morphs, stamplars have substantial love:
- You have a physical ultimate that can proc burning light that does 66% more dmg to people in front of you,
- physical spamable thats undodgable that procs burning light which is scaled off your stamina and gives major crit buff,
- you get the same 10% extra crit dmg buff as magplars,
- 15% blocking mitigation on melee,
- a stamina ranged stun that procs burning light,
- 6% weapon dmg increased with the same spell resists as magplars
- power of the light with minor resist debuffs that generates ultimate on its cast,
- and 2 mag dumps with purge and restoring focus with repentance for no cost (despite the nerf).

That's 4 pure stamina class skills, with 7 passives that are mostly global. Then compared to the fact you have access to 24 weapon skills, and another 20 passives. That is not small, that's a huge amount.

But neither of this means, you should take over the only charge magplars have because you ended up slotting dual weld+bow instead of 2h+any other stam weapon. And even then you still are given mobility through quick cloak+bow dodge roll mobility!

Baconlad · November 2017

Explosive charge is a useless ability, ill deff give you that. But when zos goes over it to attempt to make it viable, you would rather snipe it away from magplars, instead of give it a beneficial buff to stamplars and magplars while keeping damage to magplars. You would rather they just make it a stamina morph, doing physical damage.

Regarding ultimates, and magplar getting crescent back. What cheap burst ultimate does magplar get? Nothing. Zos took DBOS away from us, then took crescent away from us, then took the higher damage morph of backlash, then took the damage morph of jabs...man now you want our other morph of charge? A morph that we have been asking for relevency for years to the point of just forgetting about it. How many stamina gap closers AND morphs does stamplar get? Theres sword and shield charge and both morphs, two hander charge and both morphs, then technically the very niche WW charges and morphs, and now you want one of magicks charge morphs. Magplar has...wait for it...one charge and one morph if you get what you want, its incredibly selfish. This would be like magic templar begging for a magic morph of two hander charge, shield slam, flurry, or god forbid...DBoS...

You already stated that you main stamplar, do you have any significant playtime on a magplar of a year or more? Cause i bounce back and forth from stamplar to magplar and ill tell you, stamplar is *** easy mode, stamplar gets everything that magplar has except burst heal...

And destro ult. Ill adress this...this is a good ultimate, but using the argument for that as being a good alternative to crescent sweep or DBoS is ***. 240 ultimate, when the hell am i going to get to use it? While fighting a stamplar hes already hit me twice for a tooltip of over 15k each not includingbthe dot ticks before i get a purge off, while in that same time id be lucky to hit him with one or two, maybe three ticks before he dodge rolled, stunned and snared me into it not beong effective. Id take crescent over eye ANY day in 90% of the situations im in.

You only want class charge because you like spears abilities, you like the survivability of stamplar more and you dont want to have to use two hander or sword and shield charge...that is lazy, selfish and very uncalled for.

Baconlad · November 2017

Im going to have to reiterate this other point. How many magplars use DBOS? ALOT...

I personally use the sword and shield defile ability that stuns. Even at the very expensive hit to my stamina.

You dont hear me begging for a magick morph of it...and i understand why DBOS is stamina, it IS in the fighters guild line. If anything you should have a bit of understanding for us magplar too, asking for a utility version of charge that scales damage to magic and gives a buff, maybe a defensive buff or damage buff, or AOE CC effect.

There is nothing stopping you from using toppling on your stamplar as it is.

Minno · November 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

Im going to have to reiterate this other point. How many magplars use DBOS? ALOT...

I personally use the sword and shield defile ability that stuns. Even at the very expensive hit to my stamina.

You dont hear me begging for a magick morph of it...and i understand why DBOS is stamina, it IS in the fighters guild line. If anything you should have a bit of understanding for us magplar too, asking for a utility version of charge that scales damage to magic and gives a buff, maybe a defensive buff or damage buff, or AOE CC effect.

There is nothing stopping you from using toppling on your stamplar as it is.

There actually isn't, you are right. The DMG, despite scaling off mag, still procs burning light giving stamplars a mag dump charge which can also give them 10% crit DMG for it slotted. The mag cost, let's you save more Stam for healing+other attacks; I'm surprised more don't run it.

Baconlad · November 2017

On my stamplar build (that i admittedly havnt used in 6 months or so) i use toppling. Mainky cause i dont like two hander...

DeHei · November 2017

It would be good to have a morph for stamina and magickaplayer. The skills dont deal the damage, that magicka templar would need explosive charge

WillhelmBlack · November 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

I say no, i hate that stamina gets any class morphs as it is. Stamina should be locked into non class lines for damage and class passives for damage, but get to use magic for utility spells. Especially now that stamina gets weapon ultimates....

Lol