PVP is now only playable by veteran players

tixxu · November 2017

Really. Do not buy eso if you are a new player and plan to focus on pvp.
This game has LOTS of flaws i will not talk about, ZOS make poor decisions and communicate very badly with the community, but on the other hand they manage to have some good ideas, they keep being creative with the lore, and the game itself is fun and interesting enough to have a huge playerbase.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I will not quit.
When I bought ESO 3 months ago, I bought it because it was one of the only mmo in the market which had a good playerbase + a decent PVP. No PVP? I would not have bought this game, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

However, it is now impossible for newer players to have fun in PVP because : (and when I say newer, I consider people like myself, 300 cp and playing for a few months, so imagine for people who just bought the game... you lose so many consumers ZOS...),:
-The only place where you are sure to play small scale pvp and not Zerg vs Zerg are Battlegrounds, which are now CP enabled only. You want to be competitive? You must play for AT LEAST half a year before that mate.
-When you finally reach 400-500 cp (not even the cap, higher CP players will still have an advantage), and you decide to queue solo, you will get destroyed 80% of the time because ZOS cannot make two different queues for pugs and premades. And I mean DESTROYED, 500-100-0 are common end game scores.
-However, they are able to create 7589 Cyrodill campaigns. The consequence is that the only decently populated PVP campaign is CP. The non-cp one is playable during peak hours only, and even during these hours it is almost never full, with always the same faction dominating, over and over. I don't even want to talk about the under 50 and 7 days campaigns: they are empty. So is Imperial city, don't buy this DLC for Pvp, no one is in here.

I can play in CP, sometimes it feels ok, when I play against very bad high cp players, or against 400ish cp, it's all right, but it rarely happens. Most of the time I realise that I do no damage and that Im squishier than half of the other players.
I DO understand that CP is an advantage for long time players and that is is a mmo, your character needs to progress ect.. And I respect this opinion.
But I find it UNACCEPTABLE that you must choose between being completely destroyed or being able to pvp only during 2 hours in the evening.

I am a 300cp player playing for months, and I cannot have fun with PVP anymore since BGs are CP enabled. I am disappointed and I wanted to get it off my chest.

EDIT: Thx all for the answers, I just want to clarify a point: I ve never said that I want to beat experienced players without efforts.
I have never called to CP suppression or casualisation of the game L2Read plz.
My point is that we should have at least the CHOICE to have a reliable option to be less disadvantaged.
And people saying L2P pvp is skill : sure, this is exactly what I am saying.

Buffler · November 2017

Ok

Tryxus · November 2017

Trust me: even CP capped players are disappointed that BGs are now CP-enabled

Judas Helviaryn · November 2017

Yeah.. uh.. did you think you'd be a top tier contender straight out of the box? You've got to invest if you want to succeed, that means losing more than you win.

Loc2262 · November 2017

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Betsararie · November 2017

Well you have to learn to play. There really is no way around it.

Whether or not CP in BGs was a good idea is debatable, it probably would be best to have an option for both but unfortunately there aren't enough people queuing for that.

One upside is the average player skill has gone way up, so matches are a lot more fun because a lot of the 'less effective' players have been forced out. And if you're used to CP PvP in Vivec, then it's nothing new.

Maybe you should've taken some time during the event to level your CP.

FloppyTouch · November 2017

as it should be

mb10 · November 2017

While I agree with your point about taking half a year to be competitive... how can someone come in and in a few months be competing with those that have played 3 years? It makes no sense.

Plus the gap really is the skill gap and the understanding of the other classes + their strengths/weaknesses. I think thats what makes veterans good at PVP.

My only advice is to theory craft, make sure your weapons are gold for PVP, invest the CP you have wisely and play in a small group.

Tbh to get 300cp in a few months is quite impressive btw

Deep_01 · November 2017

You can get amazing solo/small fights throughout the day in Cyro Non-CP. Takes a bit of practice to know where enemy solo/small players are and they are far away from where the massive battles happen. It's not easy and it is a very, very long learning curve in solo. AP gained is almost none. But totally worth the fun for me. Hours of fighting each day against several players and there is always something new to learn. Once you learn how to counter enemy burst, it's a matter of you bursting the down. Don't give up easy. Keep learning. And don't keep going for more than a few hours a day. It takes months (2+years they say).

WaltherCarraway · November 2017

You gotta be geared (build properly and objectively) to compete. Whether CP capped or not is not a big deal.

Oh, don’t play magicka dragonknight, insta-eso pvp hardmode.

DisgracefulMind · November 2017

mb10 wrote: »

While I agree with your point about taking half a year to be competitive... how can someone come in and in a few months be competing with those that have played 3 years? It makes no sense.

Plus the gap really is the skill gap and the understanding of the other classes + their strengths/weaknesses. I think thats what makes veterans good at PVP.

My only advice is to theory craft, make sure your weapons are gold for PVP, invest the CP you have wisely and play in a small group.

Tbh to get 300cp in a few months is quite impressive btw

With all the xp boosts, you can easily get CP cap in a few months at this point.

At the end of the day, more experienced players are going to destroy less experienced players. I'd expect the same going into any game.

Also, I'm so happy for CP BGs, I hated noCP ones, mostly because I hate noCP (yes, I've played noCP extensively before, and I choose not to play gimped at the end of the day).

Grind up some CP, look at your build (honestly with the way CP work now, you shouldn't have that massive of a power gap at like 400cp, for minmax, yes, but otherwise, you can run similar damage/regens with some adjustments and still be highly effective in PvP), take some time to learn how all the classes work with their counters and strengths, and practice some more. A lot of PvPers on the servers have been playing a long time, if you expect to come in and have a chance at someone with 3 years more experience than you do, I advise you reconsider that notion. There are terrible players who have been playing for a long time, but there's a lot of good ones as well.

Good luck out there!

Jake1576 · November 2017

I'm at 1000 + cp and i still get killed in pvp often less then what i use when i was around 300 cp but that's just the way it works players that are new can't have the same advantages as someone that's put over 6000 hours into the game if they did there would be no reason to have played it that much or progress i just would recommend you grind out more cp if you join a guild that helps out alot reaching 600+ cp probably wouldn't be that difficult

Cpt_Teemo · November 2017

mb10 wrote: »

While I agree with your point about taking half a year to be competitive... how can someone come in and in a few months be competing with those that have played 3 years? It makes no sense.

Plus the gap really is the skill gap and the understanding of the other classes + their strengths/weaknesses. I think thats what makes veterans good at PVP.

My only advice is to theory craft, make sure your weapons are gold for PVP, invest the CP you have wisely and play in a small group.

Tbh to get 300cp in a few months is quite impressive btw

I seen someone during the 2 week double xp just run duo Skyreach and went from Cp 1 - 700 in a week 1/2 with Mythic pots + purple training gear + the event boost but yeah he did grind it like 24/7 lol

Koolio · November 2017

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

Thunderknuckles · November 2017

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

FloppyTouch · November 2017

Koolio wrote: »

When I started pvp there were Pc transfers with 1000 cp all active. No cap. I didn't even have any CP. The magic DKs were stronger than molag bal himself.

With the cp system only being out a few months before the account copy I doubt any transfer had anywhere near that many cp. if they did they cheated or lying, But I agree with what ur trying to say

Betsararie · November 2017

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

The difference is, with other PVP games like first-person shooters, you can choose which server you play on. You can look for one where primarily people of your own skill level are playing.

In ESO, it's just one huge server for everyone. If you want to do Alliance War, you have to do so without separation of skill levels (aside from the "below level 50" campaign).

Bullseye. And being 1 shotted routinely for 6 or more months simply is not fun for most people. And that will keep them from staying with it or even trying in the first place.

Well that's the wrong way to go about it. You have to stick with it. Find your strengths and weaknesses, and a play style that will work for you.

Expecting to be 'really good' as soon as you start playing is just ignorant. Games that are good take skill.

newtinmpls · November 2017

And this is news....how?

THWIP71 · November 2017

TL;DR ?

OP doesn't understand games...or life.

Chrysa1is · November 2017

Very interesting that a new 3 month old player also wants CP removed from PvP. Majority of long term players have said the same thing and nothing has changed.

I'm just dead chuffed that new players are seeing that CP ruin PvP.

RinaldoGandolphi · November 2017

Many are missing the OP point.

ESO is VERY unfriendly to the new player due to CP grind. It’s worse then the old vet ranks, and the catch up mechanics are simply not even close to being enough. The majority of players can’t dedicate huge amounts of hours per week to the game. If I was a new player coming in, I’d quit after level 50 once I found out I had to grind 690 cp...no way I’d do that.

This is exactly what has happened too because on PC-NA below level 50 pvp is DEAD and No-CP Pvp is also dead..both served with 1 bar 95% of the time....this means new players are either quitting pretty quickly or not interested in grinding CP.

Folks need to get over this whole idea of “Digital Entitlement” there is no such thing in a video game. You have earned nothing, you have simply played a game. Win a Customer Service Award at work, get a pay raise, graduate from college, get a promotion at work..those are accomplishments...

I got news for you, 99% of the world doesn’t care about any titles you have in ESO or even what ESO is.

The community needs to be more welcoming to new players and it needs to happen soon or there won’t be a game left to play...we need to get rid of these arbitrary restrictions (gear and cp grinding) to make the game more attractive to a wider audience to fill up those pvp servers again, in order to do that though strength needs to be tied to player skill and gear, not CP grind

Just my two cents, take away my 800+ CP tommorow I don’t care if it brings in more players it’s worth it

SHADOW2KK · November 2017

If you want to be competitive in PvP then put in the effort.

Getting CP`s is effortless with the bending over backwards ZoS has done for more casual players to catch up.

Some of us have been doing PvP since the game released in 2014, CP`s is not everything, skill and experience is a huge part of being succesful in PvP.

Join a serious organised PvP guild if you can get in, that would help you.

Thogard · November 2017

There's a huge skill gap in PvP.

But now there is also a character strength gap thanks to No CP being dead.

newtinmpls · November 2017

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

If you want to be competitive in PvP then put in the effort.

.

But...if you have a life/job/pets/need sleep, it won't be enough any time soon.

SHADOW2KK · November 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

If you want to be competitive in PvP then put in the effort.

.

But...if you have a life/job/pets/need sleep, it won't be enough any time soon.

Um got all of them, yet still do well in PvP

Your point?

Betsararie · November 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

If you want to be competitive in PvP then put in the effort.

.

But...if you have a life/job/pets/need sleep, it won't be enough any time soon.

But that's MMOs. That is the nature of the beast. An entire genre of gaming can't change fundamental aspects of itself because you have 'rl' to attend to. Try to balance rl with the game.

Kahina · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

..... One upside is the average player skill has gone way up, so matches are a lot more fun because a lot of the 'less effective' players have been forced out....

Not sure what your intention was, but I think you just validated the original post.

Must be a really good PVP system if players are being forced out.

VaranisArano · November 2017

ESO PVP is unfriendly to new players, CP enabled or not. Many of the basics of how Cyrodiil works, much less learning the commonly accepted roles, attack combos, attack counters, or even where the fights are is completely opaque to anyone starting out in Cyrodiil. You thought that the lack of tutorials for what's expected out of PVE tank or healer roles was bad? The Cyrodiil tutorials show you how to transitus, use siege engines, pick up quests, find a scroll temple, and then throw you into the deep end.

So does lack of CP provide a certain level of difficulty if you are playing in a CP enabled campaign? Well, sure, but if you want to be on a truly equal playing field, you do have the no-CP campaigns available. (If they aren't as full as you like, maybe you should focus on recruiting more players.)

In my experience as someone who started PVPing with less than max CP after being a pure PVE player, the far greater difficultly spike to overcome was learning how to PVP. Yes, the hardest thing for me was to Learn2Play. I had to learn how Cyrodiil worked, what skills that were effective in PVE didn't work well against players, what skills that were meh in PVE were great against players, how to fight, heal, run away, and survive when my enemies weren't computer-generated NPCs but were actual human players. I'm still not a great small scale player and I die in 19/20 1v1s, but I have learned how to stay alive longer and learned that i love healing, i love support roles, and I love the battlefield and faction tactics of Cyrodiil.

To repeat myself from earlier, so does a lack of CP put new players at a disadvantage in CP enabled campaigns? Sure. But the bigger disadvantage comes from inexperience, needing to learn and properly execute attacks, counters, and tactics, and basically just sheer experience with PVP. I've been PVPing seriously for about a year now and I'm still learning how to react in certain situations. I'd have to put in a lot more effort to learn how to do certain builds like a good solo player, a ganker, a bomber, or a 1vXer even though I have max CP. Done well, those take skill and experience to execute properly to maximum effect. On the other hand, now that I know how Cyrodiil PVP works, I can take characters I'm leveling to level 50 and PVP comfortably with them because I know what to do. I have the experience that makes that possible.

Or to put this another way, you can pull a meta build, proper gear, the right skills, and max CP, and if you don't have the experience to use that build in PVP properly, you might as well be built of PVE gear and tissue paper. I know, I've been that person made of tissue paper with the build everyone swore up and down was OP. The best advantage in PVP is experience with your build and the battlefield. Your gear, your skills, and your CP all support your experience and the tactics you know how to utilize. Not the other way around.

(Battlegrounds is another matter entirely. I'm of the firm belief that, like the Cyrodiil campaigns, Battlegrounds needed to have both CP and Non-CP options. However, if ZOS wants a surefire way to increase the population, they'd open up Battlegrounds as a base game addition not tied to the Morrowind Chapter. But ZOS will never do that for obvious reasons.)

Betsararie · November 2017

Kahina wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

..... One upside is the average player skill has gone way up, so matches are a lot more fun because a lot of the 'less effective' players have been forced out....

Not sure what your intention was, but I think you just validated the original post.

Must be a really good PVP system if players are being forced out.

You simply don't understand.... how bad BGs was back in the day it was a complete scrubfest. It was a scrubfest to a very large extent, it really was not fun in any way shape or form.

The positive part to CP being added is finally more good players are coming in, and the average skill cap has gone way up. This means that from that angle, BGs are more fun now.

Playing in a game where there are 1-2 good players max out of 12 is just not fun and a waste of time IMO. It was a joke how low a level some of the games were played at. I enjoy more challenging games with better fights/players.

Elsterchen · November 2017

I believe there is a misconception on side of the OP: accumulated CP are only the cherry on top of the PVP-cake.
... and to all those ppl eagerly trying to disagree at this point: Yes it helps having alot of CP... but CPs will not fight for you. Having alot CPs gets you one advantage only: Making mistakes is less significant.
Only good PVPers get another advantage: Many Cps mean some Cps may be used to polish up damage done. Later only comes into play once you know how to PVP.

Actually imo, it is pretty newcomer friendly of ZOS to enable you to accumulate 300 CP within 3 month only. Yet, grinding skyreach (or any other grinding spot) teaches you only how to effectively grind. Nothing else. Combat in ESO is a little more demanding then just point-and-click and this is especially true when faced with other players. This is one thing alot of us cherish about PVP and that makes us come back over and over again, despite lag, despite loading screens and despite all other odds/ little frustations /glitches /bugs.

While I agree that the learning curve in PVP can be quite long (actually I assume there is no end to it, thanks to all that little suprises every patchday) its a very step learning curve once one accepts there is no "I win"-button. I can imagine that the "I have to learn this"-situation is not rewarding/ motivating for everyone, but alot can be learned outside of PVP already.

Just as some pointed out: Learn to play your class/ character ... i.e. get a feeling/understanding of its strength and weakness. Only then you can make use of CPs, gear and builds to eventually start learning PVP.

Wing · November 2017

oh its equally crap for vet players too

maybe 10% of the pvp population is actually good, and they tend to run the most currently broken meta crap at any given time, and the other 90% is just fodder or people rolling through, getting disappointed, and never coming back.

I don't mind the long wait between balance patches, but dealing with OP of the season stam wardens for months on end gets REALLLLLLLLLLLY tired after about the 3rd crit rush, sub assault, dawnbreaker, execute in a row.

you just say okay [snip] pvp ill be back after the next balance pass to see how things are then.

[Edited to remove profanity]