bubbygink wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Demanding that new players spend 2 years with the game, like you did, before being able to compete against you in Battlegrounds is absurdly selfish, and a good way to completely kill the future of PvP in ESO. And would you even be OK with them competing against you on equal footing, 2 years from now? After all, if you're still around you'd have been playing for 4 years by then, why shouldn't you just continue to get free wins?

As somebody well over the CP cap I couldn't agree more with this. It is ridiculous that a new player has to spend so much time grinding CP to "catch up" to me. I don't get why other max level CP people are ok with this system. Why wouldn't you want something like BGs to be more accessible to a larger portion of the player base? I get that an MMO should have some grinding, but the max CP grind is far too grueling. I want more players to try out and be successful in BGs and the vast majority of the playerbase can't do that if they're at a CP disadvantage. Put us all on an even playing field for BGs. They're supposed to be competitive after all, not just "team with most CP wins."

A couple of months of just playing the game isn't two years

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Demanding that new players spend 2 years with the game, like you did, before being able to compete against you in Battlegrounds is absurdly selfish, and a good way to completely kill the future of PvP in ESO. And would you even be OK with them competing against you on equal footing, 2 years from now? After all, if you're still around you'd have been playing for 4 years by then, why shouldn't you just continue to get free wins?

As somebody well over the CP cap I couldn't agree more with this. It is ridiculous that a new player has to spend so much time grinding CP to "catch up" to me. I don't get why other max level CP people are ok with this system. Why wouldn't you want something like BGs to be more accessible to a larger portion of the player base? I get that an MMO should have some grinding, but the max CP grind is far too grueling. I want more players to try out and be successful in BGs and the vast majority of the playerbase can't do that if they're at a CP disadvantage. Put us all on an even playing field for BGs. They're supposed to be competitive after all, not just "team with most CP wins."

A couple of months of just playing the game isn't two years

You literally have to consistently grind, from a new player perspective that is terrible. I think a lot of you being veteran's and already knowing what to do, how to grind and how to get gold skews your perspective on what it actually means to be a new player. Realistically no one is grinding months non stop just to pvp, the system is terrible.

And a couple of months of just playing definitely will not get anyone to the cap.

It sure can if you don't just waste time. (I'm very guilty of PvPing rather than being productive) if you quest, etc, all that give you Xp (Random dungeons daily) it only takes a few months

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Shields are counterable, but permblocking tanks are hard to kill. Something really needs to be done about that.

Apply Increase Cost Poisons (increase cost Magicka and Ultimate or Increase Cost Magicka and Stamina), apply Minor and Major Defile, apply Minor and Major Breach/Fracture, plus Fear if you are a NB or playing with a NB in the team...

Honestly its not that hard, they just give the ''illusion'' to be Inmortal because 95% of the people playing PvP have no idea what to do and what to use... I bet most of the people didnt knew there was a poison that increase the cost of ultimate by 60%...

Pastas wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

I know that what I did here wasn't possible without CP



I was duo queued with Bee-Pee and he and I were in comms. I mentioned afterward that I kind of felt bad for doing that to them. Yes winning is good, but the biggest challenge for me was not the other players but overcoming the chaosball's damage itself. I don't know if they were new to the game type or the map, but the other teams were experienced players with decent CP and/or PVP ranks. I wasn't even in what I consider to be an extremely tanky build either, it was actually my no-cp healer build now with my CP incorporated.

I've had games before on no-CP where I held the chaos ball the whole game and didn't drop it once. Picked it up at the beginning and survived all the way to a 500-0-0 score. And that was on a destro/restro offensive Magblade.



So with CP I can't even imagine how much of a pain it is to kill the chaos-ball carrier. A group of Wardens + magplars would be practically invincible it would seem like. CP just makes everything a stalemate. Such boring game play. I really hope ZOS reverts BGs to no-CP ASAP.

Off-topic, but this image perfectly captures why BGs aren't appealing to many of us, CP or no-CP. One team got more kills than the other two teams combined, and yet failed to score a single point. PVP, to many of us, is about using your abilities to deplete the health bars of other players while preventing them from doing the same to you -- this ball-carrying stuff just seems like a different activity entirely.

That's because that group was ignoring the mode mechanics, just playing it like a deathmatch. They prefer killing easy targets rather than figth for the objectives. It sucks when they are in your group and they earned their score.

Meh still a weak argument. Most mmos over the past 10 years that have had instanced small / mid scale bgs have successfully incentivized actually engaging and beating other players in pvp while putting objectives at the forefront of a win condition. The nonsense eso bgs often have scenarios where actively avoiding pvp all together is a winning strategy.

I find it obnoxious when people come in here and try to preach things like playing for objectives is somehow a higher plane of player agency that the simple minded TDM fans dont understand.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

it's a common fact that CP pvp had TONS, and I mean TONS of permablock tanks, shield stacking sorcs, one shotting NBs etc etc. While EVERYONE that actually PLAYED nonCP said that nonCP is alot more balanced, alot less cancer builds and just less of it all. And thanks to that many people that did not PvP started with PvP. now that BGs are CP based I'l never queue for another. unkilleable templars / DK that can kill you pretty quick with ultimate. immortal wardens wrecking full teams is whats roams there now.

TL;DR: BGs was awesome, now they are crap. nonCP pvp is awesome, CP pvp is CRAP!

stop spreading disinformation; I can count the number of permablock tanks ive seen in cp pvpin the last year on one hand. you should actually try bgs out before blowing smoke outta yer ass

What in the world are you talking about? There are permablock tanks everywhere in BGs on PC NA. At least 2-3 per game.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

I know that what I did here wasn't possible without CP



I was duo queued with Bee-Pee and he and I were in comms. I mentioned afterward that I kind of felt bad for doing that to them. Yes winning is good, but the biggest challenge for me was not the other players but overcoming the chaosball's damage itself. I don't know if they were new to the game type or the map, but the other teams were experienced players with decent CP and/or PVP ranks. I wasn't even in what I consider to be an extremely tanky build either, it was actually my no-cp healer build now with my CP incorporated.

I've had games before on no-CP where I held the chaos ball the whole game and didn't drop it once. Picked it up at the beginning and survived all the way to a 500-0-0 score. And that was on a destro/restro offensive Magblade.



So with CP I can't even imagine how much of a pain it is to kill the chaos-ball carrier. A group of Wardens + magplars would be practically invincible it would seem like. CP just makes everything a stalemate. Such boring game play. I really hope ZOS reverts BGs to no-CP ASAP.

Off-topic, but this image perfectly captures why BGs aren't appealing to many of us, CP or no-CP. One team got more kills than the other two teams combined, and yet failed to score a single point. PVP, to many of us, is about using your abilities to deplete the health bars of other players while preventing them from doing the same to you -- this ball-carrying stuff just seems like a different activity entirely.

That's because that group was ignoring the mode mechanics, just playing it like a deathmatch. They prefer killing easy targets rather than figth for the objectives. It sucks when they are in your group and they earned their score.

Meh still a weak argument. Most mmos over the past 10 years that have had instanced small / mid scale bgs have successfully incentivized actually engaging and beating other players in pvp while putting objectives at the forefront of a win condition. The nonsense eso bgs often have scenarios where actively avoiding pvp all together is a winning strategy.

I find it obnoxious when people come in here and try to preach things like playing for objectives is somehow a higher plane of player agency that the simple minded TDM fans dont understand.

Hey dude relax, I was not preaching I was explaining why that group had 0 points in that BG. It was a Chaosball match, where you need to kill the guy holding the relic. If you look the battle report you will see that the 2 teams that have 0 points were obviously killing eachother (the winner team only got 2 deaths).

Yes, there are some BG modes where avoiding figth can be more rewarding, and I don't like it. But thas not the case of Chaosball, where you have to fight to grab/defend the relic. ZOS hame made some changes to CTR and figth is more revelant now. I will like to see some changes to land modes to encourage beating other players.

I'm playing BG everyday and I have seen that situation many times. You grab the relic and wait the other 2 teams come to kill you. But instead they start killing eachother while you type LOL in your group chat.

Pastas wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

I know that what I did here wasn't possible without CP



I was duo queued with Bee-Pee and he and I were in comms. I mentioned afterward that I kind of felt bad for doing that to them. Yes winning is good, but the biggest challenge for me was not the other players but overcoming the chaosball's damage itself. I don't know if they were new to the game type or the map, but the other teams were experienced players with decent CP and/or PVP ranks. I wasn't even in what I consider to be an extremely tanky build either, it was actually my no-cp healer build now with my CP incorporated.

I've had games before on no-CP where I held the chaos ball the whole game and didn't drop it once. Picked it up at the beginning and survived all the way to a 500-0-0 score. And that was on a destro/restro offensive Magblade.



So with CP I can't even imagine how much of a pain it is to kill the chaos-ball carrier. A group of Wardens + magplars would be practically invincible it would seem like. CP just makes everything a stalemate. Such boring game play. I really hope ZOS reverts BGs to no-CP ASAP.

Off-topic, but this image perfectly captures why BGs aren't appealing to many of us, CP or no-CP. One team got more kills than the other two teams combined, and yet failed to score a single point. PVP, to many of us, is about using your abilities to deplete the health bars of other players while preventing them from doing the same to you -- this ball-carrying stuff just seems like a different activity entirely.

That's because that group was ignoring the mode mechanics, just playing it like a deathmatch. They prefer killing easy targets rather than figth for the objectives. It sucks when they are in your group and they earned their score.

Meh still a weak argument. Most mmos over the past 10 years that have had instanced small / mid scale bgs have successfully incentivized actually engaging and beating other players in pvp while putting objectives at the forefront of a win condition. The nonsense eso bgs often have scenarios where actively avoiding pvp all together is a winning strategy.

I find it obnoxious when people come in here and try to preach things like playing for objectives is somehow a higher plane of player agency that the simple minded TDM fans dont understand.

Hey dude relax, I was not preaching I was explaining why that group had 0 points in that BG. It was a Chaosball match, where you need to kill the guy holding the relic. If you look the battle report you will see that the 2 teams that have 0 points were obviously killing eachother (the winner team only got 2 deaths).

Yes, there are some BG modes where avoiding figth can be more rewarding, and I don't like it. But thas not the case of Chaosball, where you have to fight to grab/defend the relic. ZOS hame made some changes to CTR and figth is more revelant now. I will like to see some changes to land modes to encourage beating other players.

I'm playing BG everyday and I have seen that situation many times. You grab the relic and wait the other 2 teams come to kill you. But instead they start killing eachother while you type LOL in your group chat.

That last sentence was a general statement. It was not geared directly to you.

Not going back to BG, CP fights for BG not interesting and way too slow pace. Hitting on undying builds. Where's the fun ?

Im still wondering if OP is trolling or not cause what he describes is so far away from what I see in BG.

Ironical part is that I bought Morrowind because of BGs... and I dont play them anymore because of the CP addition.

Morgul667 wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

it's a common fact that CP pvp had TONS, and I mean TONS of permablock tanks, shield stacking sorcs, one shotting NBs etc etc. While EVERYONE that actually PLAYED nonCP said that nonCP is alot more balanced, alot less cancer builds and just less of it all. And thanks to that many people that did not PvP started with PvP. now that BGs are CP based I'l never queue for another. unkilleable templars / DK that can kill you pretty quick with ultimate. immortal wardens wrecking full teams is whats roams there now.

TL;DR: BGs was awesome, now they are crap. nonCP pvp is awesome, CP pvp is CRAP!

This

Once you go non-CP you cant go back.

Agreed. In non-CP you can run those builds, but you actually have to give up on stuff elsewhere, and in the case of permablockers and shieldstackers, it is actually possible to run them out of resources between 4 people.

I mean I'm fine with getting one shot out of stealth via incap if the Nightblade in question can only cloak 2-3 times before running OOM.

Honestly not sure if I'll be able to stand solo play in BG's anymore. In a group when I have a Magplar and a permablock guard tank on my team permanently on the other hand is more bearable, though not for the poor sods that we queue into.

I've played pretty much nothing but BGs since Morrowind released. It was the #1 reason why I got the expansion. But I wasn't a big fan of the no-CP campaign. At the same time I wasn't really big in to PvP.

So I play a Templar. For a person who wasn't familiar with PvP, after a couple of months I got in the swing of things. In fact, I found myself competing(But not always winning) against players who I knew were way better than myself. I learned a lot more about my class and its functionality much faster in BGs than I would in Cyrodiil because you're constantly engaged in more personal fights.

I gave CP campaigns a try. With champion points, I was able to improve on some of my short comings. The extra magicka regeneration, damage mitigation, damage dealt, and even what little I put into improving my healing was a major difference.

It's truthfully night and day. Last night I played Crazy King with my Templar. I should not be allowed to heal through 4 people wailing on me, counterattack to kill two, and make it a stalemate for the remaining players hitting me. And still have over 50% magicka left with a build that doesn't use a staff to regenerate it on the fly. Essentially power creeping.

While in no-CP, I was far less likely to even get away with something like this. So I can't even imagine(yes I can because I'm seeing it right now) how other people are negating or at least minimizing the weaknesses of the class they are playing.

The champion system is fine but I honestly think most of it should improve things like the length of holding aggression with a taunt, the time it takes to research traits(beyond what you already invested into passives), stealing chance, experience gained, money earned, etc. Those are a few examples.

I also find things like increasing certain variables above +10% unnecessary "just" with the champion point system. It's ridiculous. But if you're playing BGs you gotta keep up with the Jones.

FYI. I do love Crazy King. lol

SnowTheMadDog wrote: »

I saw a bunch of stamwarden that are now "almost" unkillable and who deal a great ammount of dmg....

CP is the worst thing that happened to BG, 2 friends of mine came back just for them after 2 years break, and they just left again thanks to that change

I saw those same warden and DK tanks in my nCP bouts before this patch went live.
Both aren't pretty to face against, and can be pointed towards how much of a ratio of reduction/mitigation block gives you over CP in general.

I think we spent too long escaping the issues of CP by playing nCP instead of playing in CP and having meaningful discussions about how to incorporate CP changes that won't impact PVE/PVP playstyles drastically.

And someone mentioned somewhere that Gina said the CP change was a test; if true, that would point towards ZOS looking at how CP effects balance in a 4-man AvAvA scenario and thus trying to gather information on how to change their CP system. But this is speculation.

Minno wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Shields are counterable, but permblocking tanks are hard to kill. Something really needs to be done about that.

Apply Increase Cost Poisons (increase cost Magicka and Ultimate or Increase Cost Magicka and Stamina), apply Minor and Major Defile, apply Minor and Major Breach/Fracture, plus Fear if you are a NB or playing with a NB in the team...

Honestly its not that hard, they just give the ''illusion'' to be Inmortal because 95% of the people playing PvP have no idea what to do and what to use... I bet most of the people didnt knew there was a poison that increase the cost of ultimate by 60%...

or a poison that immobilizes your enemy while giving you cc immunity and removal of all your toons "ongoing control effects" (snare removal without 2h/vamp?).

or one that reduces your target's crit dmg by 12%.

I prefer the increase cost poisons to take down perma blockers or healers, if 2 people in the team are using poisons and we all focus the same target, he will die for sure.

But as I said before, most of the people in PvP dont use all the tools in the game... Cant remember the last time I saw someone using detect potions to hunt the NBs...