PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Mojmir · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Possible, yes. Effective, not really.

Would you mind elaborating? I want to get as many views as possible on this topic.

Your contribution to the groups overall DPS will be less than the overall DPS of a group where you built your tank for mitigation or supporting the DPS of the damage roles, also you'll be too weak to tank veteran content efficiently if you sacrifice tanking utility for inconsequential DPS - you'll be wasting your healers resources keeping you alive for minimal damage returns. Such builds get a pass in normal, but you'll be wasting a spot in endgame content for a more effective player.

With a proper group, I agree.

If you want to pug though, being tank is horrid sometimes. You have to stand there and watch people doing busted combos that amount to no damage and boss fights take an eternity. It's horrible sometimes.

All the alkosh and warhorns in the world will not help them.

im using gilliams updated NB sap build and some ideas from the build in your sig, i been tanking for 3 days and already blew through a bunch of pledges,WB's, its quite funny. i wouldnt say its vet trial material,but its great for PUGS and quick pledge keys.

Yeh, I loved my saptank. I played that so much. Could tank every vet dungeon with no issues and deal good damage too.

Siphoning change took all the fun away. Combination of that and maybe getting burnt out on it has just made me stop playing it. Doing a great job of holding all my monster sets at the moment.

leeching is ok, but dont rely on it for sure. if your healer is on point at least it makes things smooth

Brrrofski · September 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Possible, yes. Effective, not really.

Would you mind elaborating? I want to get as many views as possible on this topic.

Your contribution to the groups overall DPS will be less than the overall DPS of a group where you built your tank for mitigation or supporting the DPS of the damage roles, also you'll be too weak to tank veteran content efficiently if you sacrifice tanking utility for inconsequential DPS - you'll be wasting your healers resources keeping you alive for minimal damage returns. Such builds get a pass in normal, but you'll be wasting a spot in endgame content for a more effective player.

With a proper group, I agree.

If you want to pug though, being tank is horrid sometimes. You have to stand there and watch people doing busted combos that amount to no damage and boss fights take an eternity. It's horrible sometimes.

All the alkosh and warhorns in the world will not help them.

im using gilliams updated NB sap build and some ideas from the build in your sig, i been tanking for 3 days and already blew through a bunch of pledges,WB's, its quite funny. i wouldnt say its vet trial material,but its great for PUGS and quick pledge keys.

Yeh, I loved my saptank. I played that so much. Could tank every vet dungeon with no issues and deal good damage too.

Siphoning change took all the fun away. Combination of that and maybe getting burnt out on it has just made me stop playing it. Doing a great job of holding all my monster sets at the moment.

leeching is ok, but dont rely on it for sure. if your healer is on point at least it makes things smooth

You never needed it before. The build in my sig could do every vet dungeon without a healer.

Honestly, it was kind of broken how strong it was lol. Could solo pretty much any boss in a vet dungeon (if mechanics allowed).

Drakkdjinn · October 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Possible, yes. Effective, not really.

Would you mind elaborating? I want to get as many views as possible on this topic.

Your contribution to the groups overall DPS will be less than the overall DPS of a group where you built your tank for mitigation or supporting the DPS of the damage roles, also you'll be too weak to tank veteran content efficiently if you sacrifice tanking utility for inconsequential DPS - you'll be wasting your healers resources keeping you alive for minimal damage returns. Such builds get a pass in normal, but you'll be wasting a spot in endgame content for a more effective player.

With a proper group, I agree.

If you want to pug though, being tank is horrid sometimes. You have to stand there and watch people doing busted combos that amount to no damage and boss fights take an eternity. It's horrible sometimes.

All the alkosh and warhorns in the world will not help them.

All the "dps masquerading as a tank" builds in the world will not help those groups either, so what's your point?

raj72616a · October 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Possible, yes. Effective, not really.

Would you mind elaborating? I want to get as many views as possible on this topic.

Your contribution to the groups overall DPS will be less than the overall DPS of a group where you built your tank for mitigation or supporting the DPS of the damage roles, also you'll be too weak to tank veteran content efficiently if you sacrifice tanking utility for inconsequential DPS - you'll be wasting your healers resources keeping you alive for minimal damage returns. Such builds get a pass in normal, but you'll be wasting a spot in endgame content for a more effective player.

With a proper group, I agree.

If you want to pug though, being tank is horrid sometimes. You have to stand there and watch people doing busted combos that amount to no damage and boss fights take an eternity. It's horrible sometimes.

All the alkosh and warhorns in the world will not help them.

All the "dps masquerading as a tank" builds in the world will not help those groups either, so what's your point?

a dps tank can help a lot.
if the group is doing 60k unbuffed dps, sure go ahead just focus on buffing them.
but if the group has like 10k dps or less, a dps tank who does 15k single target dps while tanking can make many boss fights a lot more feasible.

Alagras · October 2017

This should still work for dungeons (for trials anyway dmg tank probably isn't the way to go)

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-4-x-tank-the-burning-angel/

Base idea is:

5 x Thunderbug’s Carapace
5 x Bahrahas Curse
2 x Grothgar

So it all procs from the hits you take, Valkyn Skoria instead of Grothdarr should work too. Tbh I never tried it but it looks fun to play.

Edit: didnt read all thread sry if it was already posted.

Asardes · October 2017

Well, since they put the transmutation crystals as reward for daily random dungeon I do one each day on my veteran characters (excluding the poor warden, who has just hit 50 and has 70 skill points). I always queue either as tank (DK, Sorc, NB - replace a skill with inner rage) or healer (Templar - run as usual since they heal off my skills anyway) and get groups right away. I end up doing 60-75% of group DPS and half the bosses drop no skulls since they drop too fast one after the other. For normal dungeons and most of the vanilla game veteran ones group roles mean nothing since even one properly geared player can burn down most bosses on his own, keeping aggro just by doing damage.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Well, since they put the transmutation crystals as reward for daily random dungeon I do one each day on my veteran characters (excluding the poor warden, who has just hit 50 and has 70 skill points). I always queue either as tank (DK, Sorc, NB - replace a skill with inner rage) or healer (Templar - run as usual since they heal off my skills anyway) and get groups right away. I end up doing 60-75% of group DPS and half the bosses drop no skulls since they drop too fast one after the other. For normal dungeons and most of the vanilla game veteran ones group roles mean nothing since even one properly geared player can burn down most bosses on his own, keeping aggro just by doing damage.

Honest opinion, how is the transmutation system? Does it seem like it will be robust enough? And do you think it will have a big effect on the economy like predicted by most?

Asardes · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Well, since they put the transmutation crystals as reward for daily random dungeon I do one each day on my veteran characters (excluding the poor warden, who has just hit 50 and has 70 skill points). I always queue either as tank (DK, Sorc, NB - replace a skill with inner rage) or healer (Templar - run as usual since they heal off my skills anyway) and get groups right away. I end up doing 60-75% of group DPS and half the bosses drop no skulls since they drop too fast one after the other. For normal dungeons and most of the vanilla game veteran ones group roles mean nothing since even one properly geared player can burn down most bosses on his own, keeping aggro just by doing damage.

Honest opinion, how is the transmutation system? Does it seem like it will be robust enough? And do you think it will have a big effect on the economy like predicted by most?

The effect on the economy will be non-existant in the long run. Good BoE set pieced drops sell for a maximum of around 200K gold. Any competent player can do that much in less time that it would take acquiring 50 crystals to transmute a lesser trait one bought for less. vMA gives a geode with 4, vDSA one with 5, daily pledges 1 each and sometimes bosses drop a geode with a few, trial & weekly trial leader-board give a geode with 5, 7 day campaign leaderboards give one with 10 and only the 30 day ones give one with 50, that suffices for a full re-trait. By that time you would have made enough gold just selling to NPCs the trash or less valuable sets that drop from that content. The system is mostly meaningful for BoP items like dungeon, trial and arena set items. In fact on top of the list I have an IA & SPC lightning staves, and VO & Sunderflame daggers, none of which I would have been able to buy or sell.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Well, since they put the transmutation crystals as reward for daily random dungeon I do one each day on my veteran characters (excluding the poor warden, who has just hit 50 and has 70 skill points). I always queue either as tank (DK, Sorc, NB - replace a skill with inner rage) or healer (Templar - run as usual since they heal off my skills anyway) and get groups right away. I end up doing 60-75% of group DPS and half the bosses drop no skulls since they drop too fast one after the other. For normal dungeons and most of the vanilla game veteran ones group roles mean nothing since even one properly geared player can burn down most bosses on his own, keeping aggro just by doing damage.

Honest opinion, how is the transmutation system? Does it seem like it will be robust enough? And do you think it will have a big effect on the economy like predicted by most?

The effect on the economy will be non-existant in the long run. Good BoE set pieced drops sell for a maximum of around 200K gold. Any competent player can do that much in less time that it would take acquiring 50 crystals to transmute a lesser trait one bought for less. vMA gives a geode with 4, vDSA one with 5, daily pledges 1 each and sometimes bosses drop a geode with a few, trial & weekly trial leader-board give a geode with 5, 7 day campaign leaderboards give one with 10 and only the 30 day ones give one with 50, that suffices for a full re-trait. By that time you would have made enough gold just selling to NPCs the trash or less valuable sets that drop from that content. The system is mostly meaningful for BoP items like dungeon, trial and arena set items. In fact on top of the list I have an IA & SPC lightning staves, and VO & Sunderflame daggers, none of which I would have been able to buy or sell.

Appreciate the feedback on it. There's only a couple things i'd be looking to change anyway and they are dungeon specific so i'll probably just farm what i need and horde crystals till i find something worth doing. Are the drop rates you mentioned the final figures for when CWC goes live or just for PTS?

Asardes · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Well, since they put the transmutation crystals as reward for daily random dungeon I do one each day on my veteran characters (excluding the poor warden, who has just hit 50 and has 70 skill points). I always queue either as tank (DK, Sorc, NB - replace a skill with inner rage) or healer (Templar - run as usual since they heal off my skills anyway) and get groups right away. I end up doing 60-75% of group DPS and half the bosses drop no skulls since they drop too fast one after the other. For normal dungeons and most of the vanilla game veteran ones group roles mean nothing since even one properly geared player can burn down most bosses on his own, keeping aggro just by doing damage.

Honest opinion, how is the transmutation system? Does it seem like it will be robust enough? And do you think it will have a big effect on the economy like predicted by most?

The effect on the economy will be non-existant in the long run. Good BoE set pieced drops sell for a maximum of around 200K gold. Any competent player can do that much in less time that it would take acquiring 50 crystals to transmute a lesser trait one bought for less. vMA gives a geode with 4, vDSA one with 5, daily pledges 1 each and sometimes bosses drop a geode with a few, trial & weekly trial leader-board give a geode with 5, 7 day campaign leaderboards give one with 10 and only the 30 day ones give one with 50, that suffices for a full re-trait. By that time you would have made enough gold just selling to NPCs the trash or less valuable sets that drop from that content. The system is mostly meaningful for BoP items like dungeon, trial and arena set items. In fact on top of the list I have an IA & SPC lightning staves, and VO & Sunderflame daggers, none of which I would have been able to buy or sell.

Appreciate the feedback on it. There's only a couple things i'd be looking to change anyway and they are dungeon specific so i'll probably just farm what i need and horde crystals till i find something worth doing. Are the drop rates you mentioned the final figures for when CWC goes live or just for PTS?

It has already gone live on PC this week and the values are those announced in the last PTS.