PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Asardes

pizzaow wrote: »

I love this thread. Lately, I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to find a way to do just this; my main toon is an imperial DK tank, who is normally setup to tank HM vet trials. I want to do some solo content with him as well, but it's PAINFUL... I don't mind changing gear/skills, but I'd rather not mess with attributes (currently 50 health, 14 stam).

The last thing I tried was Seventh Legion/VO with maelstrom weapons (S+B/Greatsword), which is higher DPS than my trial setup, but it's not where I'd like it to be (estimating ~10K dps). I thought I'd take him into maelstrom for fun; it was nice having such excellent survivability. I feel "at home" on my S+B bar, and really enjoy being able to turtle up/survive and replenish resources if I get into trouble. The downside is that I was introduced to new mechanics that even mediocre DPS will bypass. For example: did you know that the stage 1 boss (Maxus the Many) will spawn adds then absorb them later which heals him?

The next thing I'm going to try is 5-1-1 with medium armor and seeing if that makes a huge difference. Do you guys think 2H, Dual Wield or Bow would be best for my "DPS bar"?

Don't do vMA in heavy armor. I never tried it but I think it would be slow and painful, since sustain is such a big deal there. If you want to do it on a Stamina DK I would suggest going 2H/Bow and run 5 Hunding + 5 VO + 1 Velidreth/Kena/Slimercraw/Kra'gh head. Either 1/5/1 or full medium. In any case having around 1K stamina recovery is the bare minimum, 1.3-1.5K is probably ideal.

SirAndy

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Sure, make an Altmer Magicka Pet Sorc, put on some fancy light armor and stack shields.

You'll be able to tank almost anything in PvE, including group content, while putting out well above average damage ...

Destruent

pizzaow wrote: »

I love this thread. Lately, I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to find a way to do just this; my main toon is an imperial DK tank, who is normally setup to tank HM vet trials. I want to do some solo content with him as well, but it's PAINFUL... I don't mind changing gear/skills, but I'd rather not mess with attributes (currently 50 health, 14 stam).

The last thing I tried was Seventh Legion/VO with maelstrom weapons (S+B/Greatsword), which is higher DPS than my trial setup, but it's not where I'd like it to be (estimating ~10K dps). I thought I'd take him into maelstrom for fun; it was nice having such excellent survivability. I feel "at home" on my S+B bar, and really enjoy being able to turtle up/survive and replenish resources if I get into trouble. The downside is that I was introduced to new mechanics that even mediocre DPS will bypass. For example: did you know that the stage 1 boss (Maxus the Many) will spawn adds then absorb them later which heals him?

The next thing I'm going to try is 5-1-1 with medium armor and seeing if that makes a huge difference. Do you guys think 2H, Dual Wield or Bow would be best for my "DPS bar"?

When i have to DPS (on bosses where you don't need a second tank or when collecting skyshards etc) on my Stam-DK-Tank (imperial as well), i just use Vicious ophidian + hundings rage + 2x veli and do normal Stam-DK rotation...
You can get like 25k...30k DPS selfbuffed on the dummy and easy 30k+ DPS in a trial while using warhorn and maybe even doing some offtanking.

Example of this when i do vMoL/nonHm off"tanking":

https://youtu.be/qL-ebaR_xtE

eso_nya

pizzaow wrote: »

The downside is that I was introduced to new mechanics that even mediocre DPS will bypass. For example: did you know that the stage 1 boss (Maxus the Many) will spawn adds then absorb them later which heals him?

The next thing I'm going to try is 5-1-1 with medium armor and seeing if that makes a huge difference. Do you guys think 2H, Dual Wield or Bow would be best for my "DPS bar"?

Yes. If he has 12 adds, they will heal him from 50% back up to full. At its launch i somehow had the impression that its a survival challenge, being able to take the beating of those 12 adds, wasnt really helpfull. xD

2h or dw. dw for rend and bloodcraze. 2h for carve (minor heroism morph) and reverse slash (aoe splatter morph).
7th and vo should be really nice for sustain, for a bit more dmg, i'd swap out vo for nmg. if u have, try 1 pc (2h) or 2pc (dw) kragh.

Asardes

The reasons I love 2H on stam DK in vMA:
- rally, it gives me major brutality (I have the molten armaments morph) and a burst heal without using expensive potions
- brawler, it gives me a shield and some AoE
- reverse slice, it gives me an execute and a good AoE on trash mobs, especially on boss adds
- forceful passive, dovetails really nicely with molten armaments heavy attack damage
- battle rush passive gives some nice sustain if your base recovery is high enough

Cybercore_Death

jaws343 wrote: »

I was running vWGT with a mag warden tank who was able to self heal (and group heal), tank, and deal out damage. The guy probably could have soloed everything but the last boss and the planar fight. It was insane. Interestingly, he was running dual frost staves with the undaunted taunt for emergencies.

I had something similar one vCoS once, same kinda thing. On the Dranos fight when the adds spawn around the side of the room he told everyone to wait in place and shield up and wrecked all the adds that spawned then came back and carried on tanking like it was no big deal. He also did the same thing with a few flesh atronachs in the Velidreth fight. Kept the boss under taunt, took one down then carried on tanking.

It was highly impressive to watch and was a little bit of an inspiration to ask this question in the first place as its clearly possible but not easily found, at least not when i've tried to search anyway.

Cybercore_Death

Asardes wrote: »

In any case if you go with 5p heavy your max single target DPS would be in the 10-13K ballpark if you invest all attribute points in stamina/magicka and get 25K+ health from gear only.

For a magicka character It won't get higher than that because you are missing 10% spell critical (a minimum of 7% DPS loss) and 5K spell penetration (about 10% DPS loss) from the 5p light armor passives. You are also missing a lot of sustain in terms of magicka recovery and cost reduction and due to the fact you are maintaining some DPS skills in addition to the tank ones. Also if running 1h+s front bar you are missing out on the offhand weapon spell/weapon damage stat. 1h weapon attacks also recover only stamina so you'll need to run high magicka recovery and a cost reduction set like Alteration Mastery or Seducer, which is a loss in terms of missing spell damage/critical compared to a DPS set.

Pretty much the same consideration for a stamina based tank/DD hybrid but the loss of weapon critical stat is more gradual being per piece but the 12% weapon damage one needs 5p as well. Same thing about the cost reduction and stamina recovery stats with the caveat that recovery stops while blocking.

For a health based tank the maximum possible DPS is 5-7K since even if some skills do scale on maximum health the damage they deal will be pretty low in practice due to high cost and missing critical passives. At that point it would be more beneficial to the group if you ran a proper debuff tanking setup and only did tanking. For example taunting with pierce armor skill, using Torug's Pact set and an infused weapon and crusher enchant will result in a 5.3K+2.7K=8K resistance debuff; 8K/50K=16% damage increase when compared to the basic taunt with no debuff from inner fire. So if your group is doing 50K DPS you will be adding 8K DPS to that, much more than any of your DPS skills would. For example I did the numbers on Blazing Shield and the DPS output was in the 3-4K ball park in ideal conditions - really high health and plenty of mobs around to amp the shield. And there have been nerfs since then so it will end up lower in practice.

So the only answer is to run a DD build and slot a taunt, which is more viable on a magicka character since your DPS skills will run off the other pool and you will slot a shield that runs off magicka as well and saves you from the need to block anything but the heavy attacks. You can still do most of your rotation if the mechanics are simple so you will still end up with ~80% of your normal DPS: ex. if you are pulling 30K DPS you will still end up with 24K. But that only works for normal and some of the easier vet dungeons. In harder ones it's simply not survivable. There are some bosses and mechanics that will do 20K+ damage even to a blocking and almost resistance capped proper tank. So vCoS and vICP are clearly out of limits, vRoM may be viable, vWGT will be relatively easy. Not sure about the new ones since I didn't run them.

As always the level of detail you go into is amazing and highly impressive.

Its nice to see the figures to back up for either way and also adds a lot for me to think about going forward.

Also, thanks to your advice on my other thread my mDK is golden and thriving, thankyou :-)

Cybercore_Death

pizzaow wrote: »

I love this thread. Lately, I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to find a way to do just this; my main toon is an imperial DK tank, who is normally setup to tank HM vet trials. I want to do some solo content with him as well, but it's PAINFUL... I don't mind changing gear/skills, but I'd rather not mess with attributes (currently 50 health, 14 stam).

The last thing I tried was Seventh Legion/VO with maelstrom weapons (S+B/Greatsword), which is higher DPS than my trial setup, but it's not where I'd like it to be (estimating ~10K dps). I thought I'd take him into maelstrom for fun; it was nice having such excellent survivability. I feel "at home" on my S+B bar, and really enjoy being able to turtle up/survive and replenish resources if I get into trouble. The downside is that I was introduced to new mechanics that even mediocre DPS will bypass. For example: did you know that the stage 1 boss (Maxus the Many) will spawn adds then absorb them later which heals him?

The next thing I'm going to try is 5-1-1 with medium armor and seeing if that makes a huge difference. Do you guys think 2H, Dual Wield or Bow would be best for my "DPS bar"?

I'm glad its not just me looking for a setup like this. I remember reading about the NB SapTank a while back and thinking that was a really cool build but i ignored it because i was still focused on being full DPS. I also had a look at Deltias DK tank and the section about being able to do vMA with it successfully but with the nerf to NB and the Deltia build now being outdated i thought the forums would be the best place to ask.

I did reach out to Deltia regarding his DK Tank he used for vMA and if it would still be viable with the HoTR patch but i have yet to hear back (and dont expect to given he's moved away from ESO). If there were a way to replicate that build using current Meta i reckon we'd be on to a winner.

Cybercore_Death

SirAndy wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Sure, make an Altmer Magicka Pet Sorc, put on some fancy light armor and stack shields.

You'll be able to tank almost anything in PvE, including group content, while putting out well above average damage ...

LOLOL i was waiting for someone to post this tbf.

It is a valid option tbf as i've seen some decent tanking happen with mSorcs. Though i know it wouldnt be suitable for all content unfortunately.

Cybercore_Death

Destruent wrote: »

pizzaow wrote: »

I love this thread. Lately, I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to find a way to do just this; my main toon is an imperial DK tank, who is normally setup to tank HM vet trials. I want to do some solo content with him as well, but it's PAINFUL... I don't mind changing gear/skills, but I'd rather not mess with attributes (currently 50 health, 14 stam).

The last thing I tried was Seventh Legion/VO with maelstrom weapons (S+B/Greatsword), which is higher DPS than my trial setup, but it's not where I'd like it to be (estimating ~10K dps). I thought I'd take him into maelstrom for fun; it was nice having such excellent survivability. I feel "at home" on my S+B bar, and really enjoy being able to turtle up/survive and replenish resources if I get into trouble. The downside is that I was introduced to new mechanics that even mediocre DPS will bypass. For example: did you know that the stage 1 boss (Maxus the Many) will spawn adds then absorb them later which heals him?

The next thing I'm going to try is 5-1-1 with medium armor and seeing if that makes a huge difference. Do you guys think 2H, Dual Wield or Bow would be best for my "DPS bar"?

When i have to DPS (on bosses where you don't need a second tank or when collecting skyshards etc) on my Stam-DK-Tank (imperial as well), i just use Vicious ophidian + hundings rage + 2x veli and do normal Stam-DK rotation...
You can get like 25k...30k DPS selfbuffed on the dummy and easy 30k+ DPS in a trial while using warhorn and maybe even doing some offtanking.

Example of this when i do vMoL/nonHm off"tanking":

https://youtu.be/qL-ebaR_xtE

Good to actually see it in action and on something with a decent level of difficulty to boot. With the amount of info to go on now its gonna be a touch decision to make on which was i go.

pizzaow

I found this video of a heavy armor stam DK build running VMA (from June 2017). He's wearing ravenger+seventh legion+bloodspawn, with a maelstrom battle axe.

He uses DW+2H, however he spends nearly the whole arena on the 2H bar... so, it _might_ not be a huge DPS loss to use S+B instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSYkIsW4S4

jaws343

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Sure, make an Altmer Magicka Pet Sorc, put on some fancy light armor and stack shields.

You'll be able to tank almost anything in PvE, including group content, while putting out well above average damage ...

LOLOL i was waiting for someone to post this tbf.

It is a valid option tbf as i've seen some decent tanking happen with mSorcs. Though i know it wouldnt be suitable for all content unfortunately.

I can certainly solo a boss or two on my non-pet magsorc (crit surge plus shield is all you need), soloed valkyn scoria on vet because my group died and were pretty bad all around. But the margin for error is very small. One misstep and you die.

Asardes

pizzaow wrote: »

I found this video of a heavy armor stam DK build running VMA (from June 2017). He's wearing ravenger+seventh legion+bloodspawn, with a maelstrom battle axe.

He uses DW+2H, however he spends nearly the whole arena on the 2H bar... so, it _might_ not be a huge DPS loss to use S+B instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSYkIsW4S4

The hardest hitting ability on any stamina DD build is actually Endless Hail, so the loss is quite massive. People post such videos just to show off, like the ones running naked, using broom etc. It's pretty ineffective in practice. You can see how slow his DPS actually is on the centurions. With a good DD build you will be able to actually kill the first one outright before he shields up and greatly speed up the round. Also the gap closer is not necessary if you know the mechanics and move to the spawn points. If you use VO you will definitely not need it since you gain major expedition from kills and can move quite fast.

Asardes

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I was running vWGT with a mag warden tank who was able to self heal (and group heal), tank, and deal out damage. The guy probably could have soloed everything but the last boss and the planar fight. It was insane. Interestingly, he was running dual frost staves with the undaunted taunt for emergencies.

I had something similar one vCoS once, same kinda thing. On the Dranos fight when the adds spawn around the side of the room he told everyone to wait in place and shield up and wrecked all the adds that spawned then came back and carried on tanking like it was no big deal. He also did the same thing with a few flesh atronachs in the Velidreth fight. Kept the boss under taunt, took one down then carried on tanking.

It was highly impressive to watch and was a little bit of an inspiration to ask this question in the first place as its clearly possible but not easily found, at least not when i've tried to search anyway.

That's why I mentioned vWGT as one of the dungeons where you can go as a pure DD build and occasionally slot a taunt. For Planar a tank is actually detrimental. When I started running it with my Stam DK I always changed to DD there to speed things up. With about 100K group DPS it's actually possible to burst trough the mechanic and kill the boss before it turns blue, ignoring the first portals that spawn; that's the tactic I employ when running with guild groups. None of the other bosses needs serious tanking since they don't one shot with a directional cleave attack. Some of them have ground based radial attacks with quite clear telegraphs, but those need to be avoided by people regardless of their group role.

In vCoS, on a DK, there's really no need to go after adds, but you can pull them with chains directly into the boss within 4s of their spawn. From what I remember the boss and the bomb AoE hit quite hard there and even on my full tank I had to heal and shield up all the time to avoid getting killed, while blocking. I had 30K+ health and resistances in the same ballpark so the damage is quite intense.

Cybercore_Death

pizzaow wrote: »

I found this video of a heavy armor stam DK build running VMA (from June 2017). He's wearing ravenger+seventh legion+bloodspawn, with a maelstrom battle axe.

He uses DW+2H, however he spends nearly the whole arena on the 2H bar... so, it _might_ not be a huge DPS loss to use S+B instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSYkIsW4S4

Thats pretty awesome is that. Good to see runs that are a little more recent as well.

Cybercore_Death

jaws343 wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

PvE Damage Tank - Is such a build possible anymore?

Sure, make an Altmer Magicka Pet Sorc, put on some fancy light armor and stack shields.

You'll be able to tank almost anything in PvE, including group content, while putting out well above average damage ...

LOLOL i was waiting for someone to post this tbf.

It is a valid option tbf as i've seen some decent tanking happen with mSorcs. Though i know it wouldnt be suitable for all content unfortunately.

I can certainly solo a boss or two on my non-pet magsorc (crit surge plus shield is all you need), soloed valkyn scoria on vet because my group died and were pretty bad all around. But the margin for error is very small. One misstep and you die.

I thought that might be the case, naturally theres always a small margin for error....that one i imagine is minute haha

Cybercore_Death

Asardes wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I was running vWGT with a mag warden tank who was able to self heal (and group heal), tank, and deal out damage. The guy probably could have soloed everything but the last boss and the planar fight. It was insane. Interestingly, he was running dual frost staves with the undaunted taunt for emergencies.

I had something similar one vCoS once, same kinda thing. On the Dranos fight when the adds spawn around the side of the room he told everyone to wait in place and shield up and wrecked all the adds that spawned then came back and carried on tanking like it was no big deal. He also did the same thing with a few flesh atronachs in the Velidreth fight. Kept the boss under taunt, took one down then carried on tanking.

It was highly impressive to watch and was a little bit of an inspiration to ask this question in the first place as its clearly possible but not easily found, at least not when i've tried to search anyway.

That's why I mentioned vWGT as one of the dungeons where you can go as a pure DD build and occasionally slot a taunt. For Planar a tank is actually detrimental. When I started running it with my Stam DK I always changed to DD there to speed things up. With about 100K group DPS it's actually possible to burst trough the mechanic and kill the boss before it turns blue, ignoring the first portals that spawn; that's the tactic I employ when running with guild groups. None of the other bosses needs serious tanking since they don't one shot with a directional cleave attack. Some of them have ground based radial attacks with quite clear telegraphs, but those need to be avoided by people regardless of their group role.

In vCoS, on a DK, there's really no need to go after adds, but you can pull them with chains directly into the boss within 4s of their spawn. From what I remember the boss and the bomb AoE hit quite hard there and even on my full tank I had to heal and shield up all the time to avoid getting killed, while blocking. I had 30K+ health and resistances in the same ballpark so the damage is quite intense.

Thats good to know regards to vWGT. Gives me something to aim for when i next run it (assuming i'm with a capable group of course).

With vCoS it was the timing for when Vel drops back down that used to get me at first. Timing the roll away was painful. That and forgetting to block when she goes up.

In terms of your tank, do you follow any specific build guide or is it your own custom? And would you mind running through what you use and what you would swap out to help with DPS in situations where full tank isn't needed?

Asmael

Mmh, I started the other way around: I picked a DD, decided to put SnB as a front bar instead of DW, use Heavy armor instead and slot Spell Wall on the front bar since I didn't want to change my jewelry for Shield-Play enchants, and finally tweaked CPs a bit. I ended up with 22k HP, which was a bit low for some situations where a few bosses will heavy attack you for close to your entire HP bar, but 25k is enough for all vet dungeons - including HM.

The setup was not optimized by any mean, since I was running 2x Velidreth, 3x Agility and 7/6x Tava's favor. This was for a stamina DK, so bars looked like this:

SnB: Igneous Shield / Vigor / Pierce Armor / Inner fire / Chains // Spell Wall (for PvE, the other morph wud be preferable)
Bow: Hardened armor / Rearming Trap / Caltrops / Poison Injection / Endless Hail // <flex - usually flawless Dawnbreaker>

With this, basically repeat your rotation as you would if you were a damage dealer, simply by replacing your front bar abilities according to the situation.

For those fights with pretty heavy pressure, it's hard to get much more than 10k DPS, but bosses where only the heavy attacks are dangerous can push you up to 30k single target. For AoE fights, dropping Hail and Caltrops (and Dawnbreaker if you don't need the block) is enough.

This is not a setup I would recommend if you're not comfortable with the dungeons and their mechanics, as you will get low on health very often.

Cybercore_Death

Asmael wrote: »

Mmh, I started the other way around: I picked a DD, decided to put SnB as a front bar instead of DW, use Heavy armor instead and slot Spell Wall on the front bar since I didn't want to change my jewelry for Shield-Play enchants, and finally tweaked CPs a bit. I ended up with 22k HP, which was a bit low for some situations where a few bosses will heavy attack you for close to your entire HP bar, but 25k is enough for all vet dungeons - including HM.

The setup was not optimized by any mean, since I was running 2x Velidreth, 3x Agility and 7/6x Tava's favor. This was for a stamina DK, so bars looked like this:

SnB: Igneous Shield / Vigor / Pierce Armor / Inner fire / Chains // Spell Wall (for PvE, the other morph wud be preferable)
Bow: Hardened armor / Rearming Trap / Caltrops / Poison Injection / Endless Hail // <flex - usually flawless Dawnbreaker>

With this, basically repeat your rotation as you would if you were a damage dealer, simply by replacing your front bar abilities according to the situation.

For those fights with pretty heavy pressure, it's hard to get much more than 10k DPS, but bosses where only the heavy attacks are dangerous can push you up to 30k single target. For AoE fights, dropping Hail and Caltrops (and Dawnbreaker if you don't need the block) is enough.

This is not a setup I would recommend if you're not comfortable with the dungeons and their mechanics, as you will get low on health very often.

That sounds like a pretty solid all round build to be fair. Do you run Vamp on this at all and what Race are you? And if you wouldn't mind going through it, how did you allocate CP in the end? Just to get an idea on what to look for in a hybrid.

newtinmpls

I don't have a lot of tanking experience, so take all this with a salt lick (not just a grain)

I have an Orsimer sorc that I hadn't played in a while that I'm starting to play around with her as a tank. Mostly just playing, not intended for vet high/level content (which I don't do much with anyway).

so with all those warnings;

Thunderbug and Storm Knight (5 and 5) and this includes weapons; she does sword and board on one bar, and dual wield on the other. Monster helm/set is Selene's Web.

I tend to use the S&B taunt, and then my rotation is a sort a chaotic mess of Liquid Lightning, Flurry, Hurricane (the stamina morph of lightning form), power surge (boosts magicka and stamina abilities). I do also use bound armaments (the stamina morph) and Twilight Matriarch (the healing morph).

yes this is still in process, and likely not optimized, but so far it's been very very fun to play

Asmael

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Mmh, I started the other way around: I picked a DD, decided to put SnB as a front bar instead of DW, use Heavy armor instead and slot Spell Wall on the front bar since I didn't want to change my jewelry for Shield-Play enchants, and finally tweaked CPs a bit. I ended up with 22k HP, which was a bit low for some situations where a few bosses will heavy attack you for close to your entire HP bar, but 25k is enough for all vet dungeons - including HM.

The setup was not optimized by any mean, since I was running 2x Velidreth, 3x Agility and 7/6x Tava's favor. This was for a stamina DK, so bars looked like this:

SnB: Igneous Shield / Vigor / Pierce Armor / Inner fire / Chains // Spell Wall (for PvE, the other morph wud be preferable)
Bow: Hardened armor / Rearming Trap / Caltrops / Poison Injection / Endless Hail // <flex - usually flawless Dawnbreaker>

With this, basically repeat your rotation as you would if you were a damage dealer, simply by replacing your front bar abilities according to the situation.

For those fights with pretty heavy pressure, it's hard to get much more than 10k DPS, but bosses where only the heavy attacks are dangerous can push you up to 30k single target. For AoE fights, dropping Hail and Caltrops (and Dawnbreaker if you don't need the block) is enough.

This is not a setup I would recommend if you're not comfortable with the dungeons and their mechanics, as you will get low on health very often.

That sounds like a pretty solid all round build to be fair. Do you run Vamp on this at all and what Race are you? And if you wouldn't mind going through it, how did you allocate CP in the end? Just to get an idea on what to look for in a hybrid.

I am no vampire (mostly because it's ugly af) but it would be a bit better - just need to feed before doing CoA or anything with a lot of fire damage.

I used Khajiit in this case, but Imperial and Orc provides almost the same damage while also giving you HP - which I definitely would have appreciated for the runs. Most likely, my preference would have been something like:

Orc = Imperial = Redguard > Argonian = Khajiit > Bosmer > rest.

Argonian is probably the safest pick, since it has the best combined survivability + sustain, which are both needed if you want to focus on damage. Orc / Imperial / Redguard are more if you are already experienced. Khajiit is... If you're mostly a full stamina DD who happened to have no tank available, and you're too bored to wait for one (which is why I pieced this setup together in the first place).

I don't have the CPs in mind (especially since I only used it for RoM and Cradle HM then swapped to a basic DD spec), but simply pick you DD distribution and move some of your blue CPs to Blessing and Piercing. It would probably look like (extremely rough, not accurate numbers):

49 Mighty
56 Thaumaturge
56 Precise Strikes (would probably be better to remove like 2% and put those in Master at arms)
[10%~] Blessing
[Rest] Piercing

For the green one:

[13%] Stamina recovery
[13%] heavy attack resource return
[20%~] Block cost reduction
[rest] Dodge roll cost reduction

Red ones, either you do one specific to each dungeon or you do a good all-around.

You will need to do a bunch of heavy attack, just like a normal DD would, and you definitely cannot permablock.

Last notes: while it works fine (but can be hard to stay alive) during vet dungeons and / or normal trials, using it in a veteran trial is a really bad idea. Unless your group is fine with you having to kite the Warrior or the Mage's axes around the entire time, but I doubt it.

Cybercore_Death

newtinmpls wrote: »

I don't have a lot of tanking experience, so take all this with a salt lick (not just a grain)

I have an Orsimer sorc that I hadn't played in a while that I'm starting to play around with her as a tank. Mostly just playing, not intended for vet high/level content (which I don't do much with anyway).

so with all those warnings;

Thunderbug and Storm Knight (5 and 5) and this includes weapons; she does sword and board on one bar, and dual wield on the other. Monster helm/set is Selene's Web.

I tend to use the S&B taunt, and then my rotation is a sort a chaotic mess of Liquid Lightning, Flurry, Hurricane (the stamina morph of lightning form), power surge (boosts magicka and stamina abilities). I do also use bound armaments (the stamina morph) and Twilight Matriarch (the healing morph).

yes this is still in process, and likely not optimized, but so far it's been very very fun to play

Although a work in progress as such it does sound like it could be a fun option to play.

In terms of testing what kind content have you run through with it?

Also, if you wouldnt mind keep us up to date on how this one progresses please :-)

Cybercore_Death

Asmael wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Mmh, I started the other way around: I picked a DD, decided to put SnB as a front bar instead of DW, use Heavy armor instead and slot Spell Wall on the front bar since I didn't want to change my jewelry for Shield-Play enchants, and finally tweaked CPs a bit. I ended up with 22k HP, which was a bit low for some situations where a few bosses will heavy attack you for close to your entire HP bar, but 25k is enough for all vet dungeons - including HM.

The setup was not optimized by any mean, since I was running 2x Velidreth, 3x Agility and 7/6x Tava's favor. This was for a stamina DK, so bars looked like this:

SnB: Igneous Shield / Vigor / Pierce Armor / Inner fire / Chains // Spell Wall (for PvE, the other morph wud be preferable)
Bow: Hardened armor / Rearming Trap / Caltrops / Poison Injection / Endless Hail // <flex - usually flawless Dawnbreaker>

With this, basically repeat your rotation as you would if you were a damage dealer, simply by replacing your front bar abilities according to the situation.

For those fights with pretty heavy pressure, it's hard to get much more than 10k DPS, but bosses where only the heavy attacks are dangerous can push you up to 30k single target. For AoE fights, dropping Hail and Caltrops (and Dawnbreaker if you don't need the block) is enough.

This is not a setup I would recommend if you're not comfortable with the dungeons and their mechanics, as you will get low on health very often.

That sounds like a pretty solid all round build to be fair. Do you run Vamp on this at all and what Race are you? And if you wouldn't mind going through it, how did you allocate CP in the end? Just to get an idea on what to look for in a hybrid.

I am no vampire (mostly because it's ugly af) but it would be a bit better - just need to feed before doing CoA or anything with a lot of fire damage.

I used Khajiit in this case, but Imperial and Orc provides almost the same damage while also giving you HP - which I definitely would have appreciated for the runs. Most likely, my preference would have been something like:

Orc = Imperial = Redguard > Argonian = Khajiit > Bosmer > rest.

Argonian is probably the safest pick, since it has the best combined survivability + sustain, which are both needed if you want to focus on damage. Orc / Imperial / Redguard are more if you are already experienced. Khajiit is... If you're mostly a full stamina DD who happened to have no tank available, and you're too bored to wait for one (which is why I pieced this setup together in the first place).

I don't have the CPs in mind (especially since I only used it for RoM and Cradle HM then swapped to a basic DD spec), but simply pick you DD distribution and move some of your blue CPs to Blessing and Piercing. It would probably look like (extremely rough, not accurate numbers):

49 Mighty
56 Thaumaturge
56 Precise Strikes (would probably be better to remove like 2% and put those in Master at arms)
[10%~] Blessing
[Rest] Piercing

For the green one:

[13%] Stamina recovery
[13%] heavy attack resource return
[20%~] Block cost reduction
[rest] Dodge roll cost reduction

Red ones, either you do one specific to each dungeon or you do a good all-around.

You will need to do a bunch of heavy attack, just like a normal DD would, and you definitely cannot permablock.

Last notes: while it works fine (but can be hard to stay alive) during vet dungeons and / or normal trials, using it in a veteran trial is a really bad idea. Unless your group is fine with you having to kite the Warrior or the Mage's axes around the entire time, but I doubt it.

Appreciate you going into detail, thankyou. Adds to the food for thought and gives me ideas on what to play around with as well.

newtinmpls

In terms of testing, my Sorc Tank has mostly been playing around with sorta farming Malabal Tor to get a few more pieces of Thunderbug (heavy sigh... too broke to buy them).

On the plus side, I've been recently able to single-handedly survive and kill Tallatta the Lustrous in Jagged Grotto and do the Broken Dolmen by myself with her. I could never solo that particular WB before, so I'm pretty pleased. it takes a while, but I don't die.

Cybercore_Death

newtinmpls wrote: »

In terms of testing, my Sorc Tank has mostly been playing around with sorta farming Malabal Tor to get a few more pieces of Thunderbug (heavy sigh... too broke to buy them).

On the plus side, I've been recently able to single-handedly survive and kill Tallatta the Lustrous in Jagged Grotto and do the Broken Dolmen by myself with her. I could never solo that particular WB before, so I'm pretty pleased. it takes a while, but I don't die.

Good to see the real world feedback. Sounds like its a pretty decent all round build and will only get better with time.

If i played PC more i'd offer to help with the grind for you but i'm a dirty console peasant sadly...

kvlou79

Damage tank set? Thunderbugs Carapace is heavy armor and fun as hell.
(2 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance

(3 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) When you take Physical Damage, you have a 50% chance to deal 5160 Shock Damage in a 5 meter radius around you. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Cybercore_Death

kvlou79 wrote: »

Damage tank set? Thunderbugs Carapace is heavy armor and fun as hell.
(2 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance

(3 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) When you take Physical Damage, you have a 50% chance to deal 5160 Shock Damage in a 5 meter radius around you. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Do your run a damage tank yourself? And if so would you mind running through what you use?

If not what else would you advise along with Thunderbugs?

Brrrofski

I was thinking about doing a stamsorc crit build tank sort of thing a while back. Never went with it but think it would be fun for 4 man content. Especially easier pledges if you're pugging.

Was thinking about heavy hundings with briarheart/vo then maybe Lord warden or troll king. Maybe dual wield on the back bar. Or even bow. Hurricane, caltrops, arrow barrage, trap, poison inject while tanking. Just keep dots ticking.

Cybercore_Death

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was thinking about doing a stamsorc crit build tank sort of thing a while back. Never went with it but think it would be fun for 4 man content. Especially easier pledges if you're pugging.

Was thinking about heavy hundings with briarheart/vo then maybe Lord warden or troll king. Maybe dual wield on the back bar. Or even bow. Hurricane, caltrops, arrow barrage, trap, poison inject while tanking. Just keep dots ticking.

It does seem that Sorcs could be the underdog for the tank world. Especially with their skills and passives. And their reduction in ultimate cost has the potential for a really high up time for things like Warhorn.

kvlou79

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

kvlou79 wrote: »

Damage tank set? Thunderbugs Carapace is heavy armor and fun as hell.
(2 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance

(3 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) When you take Physical Damage, you have a 50% chance to deal 5160 Shock Damage in a 5 meter radius around you. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Do your run a damage tank yourself? And if so would you mind running through what you use?

If not what else would you advise along with Thunderbugs?

Wouldn’t call him a damage tank, but yeah, taunt and stand there is boring af. I call it the “Please Hit Me” build. I like to bring non conventional perks to the group and not follow the pack (meta). Imperial Templar tank 5 T-bugs, 5 Brands of Imperium, 2 Bloodspawn. So when I’m being hit, I’m generating ultimate and getting more resists, 14K damage shields for the group, and lighting the place up with aoe damage. Keep in mind, I only run normal and vet dungeons, because I don’t want to wear gear and play style that someone tells me “I have to”. I’m sorry folks, but Ebon is lame-O.