StamSorc Questions

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

The various opinionated comments on this post is why i left the game. You take this /played time thinking and cognitive social dynamic issues and everybodys is an expert.

@jgruberman Just play something you like having fun with. Remember there is a counter for everything my two cents.

Good luck.

So far, I feel as though @Chilly-McFreeze has been extremely helpful. Also considering I know NOTHING about PvP, I don't mind to have a bunch of opinions thrown at me. Whether I agree with them or not, I'll have to learn that myself over time and experience.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

And @Chilly-McFreeze, my thought between having 2H/DW is that I'd be able to get some stuff from 2H and some stuff from DW. I assumed gap closer and bleed from 2H.

When you say "fine with landing dizzy", what does that mean... I've seen a few people say that before and don't know what it means...

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

And @Chilly-McFreeze, my thought between having 2H/DW is that I'd be able to get some stuff from 2H and some stuff from DW. I assumed gap closer and bleed from 2H.

When you say "fine with landing dizzy", what does that mean... I've seen a few people say that before and don't know what it means...

Although uninterruptable, Dizzying Swing has a long and rather obvious cast time. People can easily block, cloak and dodge it or simply walk through you, causing you not only to miss that swing but also waisting precious time doing no pressure on them. Combine that with the usual pvp lag and some opponents can be hard to hit with your bread and butter skill.

In comparison Rapid Strikes, which is a much shorter channel, are easier to land, even if it's just for some of the channeled hits.

That's a big part of the difference of the DW or 2h feeling. Although I like the "total package" of 2h, dizzy annoyed me so much I swapped to DW. But it's really something you must find out for yourself what you prefer.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

And @Chilly-McFreeze, my thought between having 2H/DW is that I'd be able to get some stuff from 2H and some stuff from DW. I assumed gap closer and bleed from 2H.

When you say "fine with landing dizzy", what does that mean... I've seen a few people say that before and don't know what it means...

Although uninterruptable, Dizzying Swing has a long and rather obvious cast time. People can easily block, cloak and dodge it or simply walk through you, causing you not only to miss that swing but also waisting precious time doing no pressure on them. Combine that with the usual pvp lag and some opponents can be hard to hit with your bread and butter skill.

In comparison Rapid Strikes, which is a much shorter channel, are easier to land, even if it's just for some of the channeled hits.

That's a big part of the difference of the DW or 2h feeling. Although I like the "total package" of 2h, dizzy annoyed me so much I swapped to DW. But it's really something you must find out for yourself what you prefer.

So the idea of Dizzying Swing(and I've just been copying build bars) is to apply stun/knockback? What is the alternative?

As a start, I think I'd probably like to stick DW/2H(and change it with trial and error/experience) but I don't mind one way or the other which is the damage... probably DW for the speed of it. Last night, I found and was loosely following this build: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-werewolf-build-pvp/

Plus I've done vamp on a bunch of my chars, so I thought it'd be fun to do WW... who knows if its a good idea or not... lol

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Side note, I ended up going with Selene's since I happened to have both pieces ready already

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Hi @Chilly-McFreeze , here is what I've come up with so far looking at Alcast's Clockwork PvP StamSorc build...

My Build: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=30632
Alcast's: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-werewolf-build-pvp/

I really appreciate your help thus far. Any insight is greatly appreciated. As I said before, I haven't even stepped foot into Cyrodiil with the build yet, but I like to be over-prepared if nothing else and at least have an INKLING of what I'm doing...

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

Alcast's build is great as usual, seems like you used it as a basis and changed to what you need. I think your build can very well work. Max Stam and wpn dmg are nice, especially giving the fact that they are still on purple.

What I would worry about is your low stam regen. How can we change that? If you go full tri-stat glyphs you can change your food to dubious camoran throne. You loose 400 health and 1k stam but raise you regen to 1.6k and max mag by 1.5k.
Magicka is important for your WW heal and your ability to streak more than once/twice.
This would be a good basis.

Maybe the higher stam regen also let's you get rid of that clunky dark deal, depends on how you play. Makes room for e.g. vigor.

If you want to go that way even further you could increase your max mag, both regens and max stam even more by using Shacklebreaker instead of hunding's for close to 2k stam regen, 39.5k max stam and 14.6k max mag without loosing too much weapon dmg.

Skills look good so far. Dot, stun, spam, mobility, buffs, hots. Seems all in place. If you still feel not mobile enough, you can always change to quick cloak.

Looks good, I would definitely give that build a try.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What I would worry about is your low stam regen. How can we change that? If you go full tri-stat glyphs you can change your food to dubious camoran throne. You loose 400 health and 1k stam but raise you regen to 1.6k and max mag by 1.5k.

If you want to go that way even further you could increase your max mag, both regens and max stam even more by using Shacklebreaker instead of hunding's for close to 2k stam regen, 39.5k max stam and 14.6k max mag without loosing too much weapon dmg.

Since I use max health/magicka food, I actually just took Bone Pirate off since the 5th trait wasn't being utilized and put Briarheart on for the extra weapon damage on the 5 piece bonus... not sure if this was a good idea or not.

I'm not following how putting tri-stat glyphs on will help with the stamina recovery, but I'm open to any direction you think would benefit my increase of that. Taking off Hundings and putting on Shacklebreaker, I do lose a handful of crit and a small bit of weapon damage, don't I?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What I would worry about is your low stam regen. How can we change that? If you go full tri-stat glyphs you can change your food to dubious camoran throne. You loose 400 health and 1k stam but raise you regen to 1.6k and max mag by 1.5k.

If you want to go that way even further you could increase your max mag, both regens and max stam even more by using Shacklebreaker instead of hunding's for close to 2k stam regen, 39.5k max stam and 14.6k max mag without loosing too much weapon dmg.

Since I use max health/magicka food, I actually just took Bone Pirate off since the 5th trait wasn't being utilized and put Briarheart on for the extra weapon damage on the 5 piece bonus... not sure if this was a good idea or not.

I'm not following how putting tri-stat glyphs on will help with the stamina recovery, but I'm open to any direction you think would benefit my increase of that. Taking off Hundings and putting on Shacklebreaker, I do lose a handful of crit and a small bit of weapon damage, don't I?

Tri Stats allows you to gain stam recovery because you can now use a different food without loosing much health.

Max Health + Max Stam Food grants 5.4k health and 4.9k stam.
Dub Camoran Throne grants 3.5k health, 3.2k stam and 319 regen.

So Camoran causes you to loose out on 1.9k health which can be compensated by using tri-stats glyphs all over. So you gain around 1.5k health from the glyphs.
It also grants less stamina, but you compensate this via the Bone Pirats Buff since it's a drink.

And yes, using Shackle instead of Hunding's makes you loose 7% crit and a 90 wpn dmg. But you gain more max stam (so you could reach 50k in WW), max magicka (for the WW heal and streak + surge) and both regens (nearly 2k stam regen with Camoran and Bone Pirate's).
It's really a matter of taste if you are more a fan of broad max resources or not. So it's no problem to run hundings. Shackle + BPT + camoran let's you definitely get rid of Dark Deal.

Here I used the changes so you can have a quick comparison:

[url="http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=30731[/url]

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Okay, that makes sense. So keep the Bone Pirate on.. tri-stat all the pieces(should I infuse the heavy pieces?) and then use Dubious?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

Okay, that makes sense. So keep the Bone Pirate on.. tri-stat all the pieces(should I infuse the heavy pieces?) and then use Dubious?

Yes, Dubious is better with Tri-Stats. You have not yet the CP to compensate missing impenetrable pieces. I would go with full impen at first and see how that goes.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

Okay, that makes sense. So keep the Bone Pirate on.. tri-stat all the pieces(should I infuse the heavy pieces?) and then use Dubious?

Yes, Dubious is better with Tri-Stats. You have not yet the CP to compensate missing impenetrable pieces. I would go with full impen at first and see how that goes.

My CP is 605 or so, and I have 60 points in the Crit Resistance. How much do I need?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

Okay, that makes sense. So keep the Bone Pirate on.. tri-stat all the pieces(should I infuse the heavy pieces?) and then use Dubious?

Yes, Dubious is better with Tri-Stats. You have not yet the CP to compensate missing impenetrable pieces. I would go with full impen at first and see how that goes.

My CP is 605 or so, and I have 60 points in the Crit Resistance. How much do I need?

Around 2k crit resist should be good. If you put too much into resistant, you miss out on the other defensive CP. For the beginning I would suggest to keep close to what Alcast has on his build CP wise + 7 impen. If you get more experienced you always can change some set pieces to infused for more stats/ dmg. But nothing is more frustrating than dying too fast.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

Okay, that makes sense. So keep the Bone Pirate on.. tri-stat all the pieces(should I infuse the heavy pieces?) and then use Dubious?

Yes, Dubious is better with Tri-Stats. You have not yet the CP to compensate missing impenetrable pieces. I would go with full impen at first and see how that goes.

My CP is 605 or so, and I have 60 points in the Crit Resistance. How much do I need?

Around 2k crit resist should be good. If you put too much into resistant, you miss out on the other defensive CP. For the beginning I would suggest to keep close to what Alcast has on his build CP wise + 7 impen. If you get more experienced you always can change some set pieces to infused for more stats/ dmg. But nothing is more frustrating than dying too fast.

Got it. I'll try to stay close to what he has. If you say 2k crit then I'm going to change a big impen piece to infused and tri-stat that also

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

I've just looked at your build again that you made... but isn't the weapon crit a bit low?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

I've just looked at your build again that you made... but isn't the weapon crit a bit low?

30% is indeed not very much. But the difference between 2h and DW builds is, that DW will hit far more often. With Dizzy as a spam you want it to count because you hit it only so often. With Rapid Strikes you hit 5 times while you would channel one dizzying swing.

However, you can always run Weapon Crit potions, change to Thief (but I feel it's not worth it over Lover or Warrior after the last changes to them) or stay in Hunding's.

I took another look at CP. Alcast mainly uses 2h for offense while it seems like you go for DW. Means you need more points in Thaumaturg.
Also I wouldn't put so many points into Mighty, the diminishing returns make it a bit of a waste. 49 points into it are enough before you gain more from Thaumaturg and Master at Arms.

You've also got 66 points into Piercing to compensate that you don't use Lover mundus or sharpened weapons. On DW your main hand is nirnhorned, which is quite nice. But I felt like infused is not so good on the offhand since it cannot proc often enough to make good of the shorter cooldown. Thing is Rapid Strikes can only proc your main hand enchant.

Might be better to go nirnhorned + sharpened. So you can save a few points from Piercing and go for Thaumaturg and MaA.
Overall I would put more into Thaum than in MaA bc you use many dots.

Also I wouldn't put 75 points into mooncalf or anything at all in Healthy.
Get tumbling and especially warlord up to at least 15% to save a lot of stam.
If you've got enough CP put 1% into Siphoner to get another debuff on your enemy and screw him if he want's to purge.

For red, you can stay close to alcast's advise, it's a very balanced one.

Overall for cp: diminishing returns are very steep since MW. It usually isn't adviseable to put more than 60 points into anything if you aren't going for a specific niche build.
Also, at least it was so after the MW update, CP boni are rounded down. So it makes no difference if you have a bonus of 14,01% or 14,99% in something, it will both become 14%. Sadly this is also the case if you have straight 14,00% bonus - it will come down to 13%. At least on some CP. So you are better of to look out for those jump points.

Also I have just realized you've got 2 weapon dmg enchants. The last time I tested it you cannot proc both even if they come from different bars and one is infused. So keep the dmg enchant on your infused backbar and you can use another enchant on your nirnhorned weapon.

Texecutioner187 · October 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

I've just looked at your build again that you made... but isn't the weapon crit a bit low?

30% is indeed not very much. But the difference between 2h and DW builds is, that DW will hit far more often. With Dizzy as a spam you want it to count because you hit it only so often. With Rapid Strikes you hit 5 times while you would channel one dizzying swing.

However, you can always run Weapon Crit potions, change to Thief (but I feel it's not worth it over Lover or Warrior after the last changes to them) or stay in Hunding's.

I took another look at CP. Alcast mainly uses 2h for offense while it seems like you go for DW. Means you need more points in Thaumaturg.
Also I wouldn't put so many points into Mighty, the diminishing returns make it a bit of a waste. 49 points into it are enough before you gain more from Thaumaturg and Master at Arms.

You've also got 66 points into Piercing to compensate that you don't use Lover mundus or sharpened weapons. On DW your main hand is nirnhorned, which is quite nice. But I felt like infused is not so good on the offhand since it cannot proc often enough to make good of the shorter cooldown. Thing is Rapid Strikes can only proc your main hand enchant.

Might be better to go nirnhorned + sharpened. So you can save a few points from Piercing and go for Thaumaturg and MaA.
Overall I would put more into Thaum than in MaA bc you use many dots.

Also I wouldn't put 75 points into mooncalf or anything at all in Healthy.
Get tumbling and especially warlord up to at least 15% to save a lot of stam.
If you've got enough CP put 1% into Siphoner to get another debuff on your enemy and screw him if he want's to purge.

For red, you can stay close to alcast's advise, it's a very balanced one.

Overall for cp: diminishing returns are very steep since MW. It usually isn't adviseable to put more than 60 points into anything if you aren't going for a specific niche build.
Also, at least it was so after the MW update, CP boni are rounded down. So it makes no difference if you have a bonus of 14,01% or 14,99% in something, it will both become 14%. Sadly this is also the case if you have straight 14,00% bonus - it will come down to 13%. At least on some CP. So you are better of to look out for those jump points.

Also I have just realized you've got 2 weapon dmg enchants. The last time I tested it you cannot proc both even if they come from different bars and one is infused. So keep the dmg enchant on your infused backbar and you can use another enchant on your nirnhorned weapon.

Yeah, I think that was a temporary thing..... one of them was supposed to be an damage undead enchant but I didn't have any hakeijos.... So infused backbar with weapon damage, what do you recommend to be helpful for the nirn weapon? The damage undead one?(Not sure how this is helpful.... for vampires in PvP?)

the_broo11 · October 2017

You may want to look into a few % into quick recovery (healing received). Also remember that crit % and crit modifier are also important for self heals in addition to damage done

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jgruberman wrote: »

I've just looked at your build again that you made... but isn't the weapon crit a bit low?

30% is indeed not very much. But the difference between 2h and DW builds is, that DW will hit far more often. With Dizzy as a spam you want it to count because you hit it only so often. With Rapid Strikes you hit 5 times while you would channel one dizzying swing.

However, you can always run Weapon Crit potions, change to Thief (but I feel it's not worth it over Lover or Warrior after the last changes to them) or stay in Hunding's.

I took another look at CP. Alcast mainly uses 2h for offense while it seems like you go for DW. Means you need more points in Thaumaturg.
Also I wouldn't put so many points into Mighty, the diminishing returns make it a bit of a waste. 49 points into it are enough before you gain more from Thaumaturg and Master at Arms.

You've also got 66 points into Piercing to compensate that you don't use Lover mundus or sharpened weapons. On DW your main hand is nirnhorned, which is quite nice. But I felt like infused is not so good on the offhand since it cannot proc often enough to make good of the shorter cooldown. Thing is Rapid Strikes can only proc your main hand enchant.

Might be better to go nirnhorned + sharpened. So you can save a few points from Piercing and go for Thaumaturg and MaA.
Overall I would put more into Thaum than in MaA bc you use many dots.

Also I wouldn't put 75 points into mooncalf or anything at all in Healthy.
Get tumbling and especially warlord up to at least 15% to save a lot of stam.
If you've got enough CP put 1% into Siphoner to get another debuff on your enemy and screw him if he want's to purge.

For red, you can stay close to alcast's advise, it's a very balanced one.

Overall for cp: diminishing returns are very steep since MW. It usually isn't adviseable to put more than 60 points into anything if you aren't going for a specific niche build.
Also, at least it was so after the MW update, CP boni are rounded down. So it makes no difference if you have a bonus of 14,01% or 14,99% in something, it will both become 14%. Sadly this is also the case if you have straight 14,00% bonus - it will come down to 13%. At least on some CP. So you are better of to look out for those jump points.

Also I have just realized you've got 2 weapon dmg enchants. The last time I tested it you cannot proc both even if they come from different bars and one is infused. So keep the dmg enchant on your infused backbar and you can use another enchant on your nirnhorned weapon.

Yeah, I think that was a temporary thing..... one of them was supposed to be an damage undead enchant but I didn't have any hakeijos.... So infused backbar with weapon damage, what do you recommend to be helpful for the nirn weapon? The damage undead one?(Not sure how this is helpful.... for vampires in PvP?)

That's really up to you. Poison and Flame are nice DoTs, Disease can grant Defile when your opponent issue immune through glyphs or racials, shock can dish out an 8% damage recieved buff and benefits from sorc passives.
Crushing is nice per se but useless against ward users. I think shielding and oblivion dmg are a tad too weak on non-infused weapons.

Not quite sure about the undead glyph. I'm unsure if it procs only on Vamps or also on Werewolfs and if it does, in which form they have to be. Additionally the flame glyph does 25% more dmg on vamps anyway and is useful against anyone.

Your build is well rounded so you've got all the choices to push what you're looking for or add on something you feel you lack. For example I run a Stam Sorc DoT build too but with lower regen, so I use an infused main hand weapon with stamina return glyph. It's a bit of a playing ground.