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magika sorcs and Dual wield
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Ye, i;m sry if I sounded like I was having a go at you.
There are builds for DW magika in youtube.
I'm just annoyed that DW functions better across magika builds in PvP than stamina builds.
At the same time I believe that ZOS should introduce a third magika weapon in the game for variety.
Whaaat ? You can create build for basicly every stam build with dual wield that will be effective in PvP. Most strong I would say are Nb , templar and warden sorc is also decent only Dk looks to be little underwhelming with dw.
Agree, bleed builds with dual wield are insanely strong in a 1v1 fight. Have faced some stamblades using DW with bleeds. If they get their bleeds/dots on me + a defiledebuff it´s RIP xD
Purge.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
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There are still things in this world that you don't know. Miat also shows proced frags heading your way. Hence as long as we have this addon you can put all this DW talk in the console section.
I perfectly know that Miat also shows procced instant casted crystal frags but :
- non DW sorc use frags for burst combo also so why they're not useless ?
- Your eyes showing proc animation and crystal flying at You to Your brain and then brain proccesing correct respond so what Miat is changing here ?
- DW sorc can or atleast could kill people even without using crystal frag and also You can easy bypass Miat just by using crystal from short distance which dw sorcs are familiar with
- Miat have nothing to do with DW sorc absence they were already dissapearing when Miat had less then 500 downloads on ESO UI and barely anyone knew about it for long time. Things that killed DW sorcs was mainly Magicka Detonation and Overload nerfs plus few other side game changes and many of this things was maded even before Miat was created. When Miat becamed popular dw sorc was already niche build because of mentioned above changes and Miat itself had no influence on that state.
Seems like they're things on this world that You dont know @Jurand80 yet You're trying to comment them
Edited by Juhasow on October 13, 2017 3:44PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »Ye, i;m sry if I sounded like I was having a go at you.
There are builds for DW magika in youtube.
I'm just annoyed that DW functions better across magika builds in PvP than stamina builds.
At the same time I believe that ZOS should introduce a third magika weapon in the game for variety.
Whaaat ? You can create build for basicly every stam build with dual wield that will be effective in PvP. Most strong I would say are Nb , templar and warden sorc is also decent only Dk looks to be little underwhelming with dw.
Agree, bleed builds with dual wield are insanely strong in a 1v1 fight. Have faced some stamblades using DW with bleeds. If they get their bleeds/dots on me + a defiledebuff it´s RIP xD
Purge.
Ok so You have Bleed which You can proc without cooldown as additional dmg proc with You light and heavy attacks which cost You nothing and even restore resources or with DW skills and enemie can purge it with skill that cost over 3k magicka if he is templar or 4-6k magicka in other cases. Guess who will run out of resources 1st. Any time You'll purge it it'll be applied again shortly after.Edited by Juhasow on October 13, 2017 3:31PM0 -
Trashkan✭✭✭My dk is a beast with duel wield in PvP. Does alright in Pve with duel wield setups. I can hit 26k self buffed. I don't use light or heavy attacks on this bar it is strictly ardent flame abilities.Edited by Trashkan on October 13, 2017 4:22PM0
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
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There are still things in this world that you don't know. Miat also shows proced frags heading your way. Hence as long as we have this addon you can put all this DW talk in the console section.
I perfectly know that Miat also shows procced instant casted crystal frags but :
- non DW sorc use frags for burst combo also so why they're not useless ?
- Your eyes showing proc animation and crystal flying at You to Your brain and then brain proccesing correct respond so what Miat is changing here ?
- DW sorc can or atleast could kill people even without using crystal frag and also You can easy bypass Miat just by using crystal from short distance which dw sorcs are familiar with
- Miat have nothing to do with DW sorc absence they were already dissapearing when Miat had less then 500 downloads on ESO UI and barely anyone knew about it for long time. Things that killed DW sorcs was mainly Magicka Detonation and Overload nerfs plus few other side game changes and many of this things was maded even before Miat was created. When Miat becamed popular dw sorc was already niche build because of mentioned above changes and Miat itself had no influence on that state.
Seems like they're things on this world that You dont know @Jurand80 yet You're trying to comment them
No, Miats has had an impact. To address some of your points.
Staff sorc can rely on a combination of pressure and burst. DW sorc is burst only. Now if a large part of that DW burst can be avoided every time, then the whole offence is effectively negated since the remainder is easily out-healed by the time the next burst is ready. Staff-sorc supplements that burst with pressure - so even if every burst is still dodged, the combination of pressure from CS + light-attacks (+enchants/poisons) and the remainder of that burst (curse) is still an effective offence.
Miats changes it by popping a nice icon in your face and a clear sound effect. It doesn't do this for every attack - only those key attacks that you really want to dodge.. high damage or hard CC's.. So they are clear, stand out and don't get lost in the general noise of battle and particle-effects. It also alerts you when they come from behind or from the side..
Seriously.. I still play DW sorc and can spot a Miats user a mile away - it makes that much difference.
Yes, DW can sometimes kill people without frag - but not very often and it involves an ulti.. For normal play, you need frags to hit. Yep, a common way is to get close enough to fire point-blank (not always an option though depending on the flow of battle/numbers involved etc.)
I'm not really sure if your points on what killed magsorcs are entirely correct. I'm sure they are relevant but there are more factors. Its been kind of a push-pull effect - nerfs to DW, buffs to staff (btw, I'm not sure overload nerf was a biggie - it was hardly used anyway, DW or not). Other big impacts have been trapping-webs becoming stam, dawnbreaker becoming physical, staff damage bonuses, sharpened nerf/infused buff, poisons, EOTS - but yes, Miats IS a factor too.
I mean yes, DW was already a niche build when Miats appeared - but it very quickly became 'more niche' after
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There are still things in this world that you don't know. Miat also shows proced frags heading your way. Hence as long as we have this addon you can put all this DW talk in the console section.
I perfectly know that Miat also shows procced instant casted crystal frags but :
- non DW sorc use frags for burst combo also so why they're not useless ?
- Your eyes showing proc animation and crystal flying at You to Your brain and then brain proccesing correct respond so what Miat is changing here ?
- DW sorc can or atleast could kill people even without using crystal frag and also You can easy bypass Miat just by using crystal from short distance which dw sorcs are familiar with
- Miat have nothing to do with DW sorc absence they were already dissapearing when Miat had less then 500 downloads on ESO UI and barely anyone knew about it for long time. Things that killed DW sorcs was mainly Magicka Detonation and Overload nerfs plus few other side game changes and many of this things was maded even before Miat was created. When Miat becamed popular dw sorc was already niche build because of mentioned above changes and Miat itself had no influence on that state.
Seems like they're things on this world that You dont know @Jurand80 yet You're trying to comment them
No, Miats has had an impact. To address some of your points.
Staff sorc can rely on a combination of pressure and burst. DW sorc is burst only. Now if a large part of that DW burst can be avoided every time, then the whole offence is effectively negated since the remainder is easily out-healed by the time the next burst is ready. Staff-sorc supplements that burst with pressure - so even if every burst is still dodged, the combination of pressure from CS + light-attacks (+enchants/poisons) and the remainder of that burst (curse) is still an effective offence.
Miats changes it by popping a nice icon in your face and a clear sound effect. It doesn't do this for every attack - only those key attacks that you really want to dodge.. high damage or hard CC's.. So they are clear, stand out and don't get lost in the general noise of battle and particle-effects. It also alerts you when they come from behind or from the side..
Seriously.. I still play DW sorc and can spot a Miats user a mile away - it makes that much difference.
Yes, DW can sometimes kill people without frag - but not very often and it involves an ulti.. For normal play, you need frags to hit. Yep, a common way is to get close enough to fire point-blank (not always an option though depending on the flow of battle/numbers involved etc.)
I'm not really sure if your points on what killed magsorcs are entirely correct. I'm sure they are relevant but there are more factors. Its been kind of a push-pull effect - nerfs to DW, buffs to staff (btw, I'm not sure overload nerf was a biggie - it was hardly used anyway, DW or not). Other big impacts have been trapping-webs becoming stam, dawnbreaker becoming physical, staff damage bonuses, sharpened nerf/infused buff, poisons, EOTS - but yes, Miats IS a factor too.
I mean yes, DW was already a niche build when Miats appeared - but it very quickly became 'more niche' after
Overload eapecially with Elegant set was a thing on DW magsorc same like Detonation+curse combo that was exploiding at the same time so they nerfed detonation dmg on single target. Some DW magosorc used to use Trapping Webs as main spammbale attack because it was magicka based ability which was later changed because of that fact. This was main factors that killed DW magsorcs. Like I said before Miat even camed out build was already dying because it becamed harder to play (especially with current Heavy Armor meta where it's hard sometimes to burst people down and dw sorc is all about burst), but this skilled DW sorcs that left had no problem with Miat. Skilled sorcs usually used DBoS , Streak or Rune Cage before hitting enemie with frag so target was already stunned and never relied on pure luck to hit enemie with frag because he could block dodge or reflect it. Miat havn't changed anything in that because most of the enemies knew anyay that they should avoid frag from DW magsorc and most DW magsorcs knew they have to prepare enemie to hit him not just brainlesly throw frags at him.Edited by Juhasow on October 14, 2017 7:51AM0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DW/S&B
This is the meaning of life.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭chris25602 wrote: »so maybe I missed the theory discussion on this bc I do not know how to get this to work with a magika based character. I haven't tried this in at least 6 months i just remember being really frustrated... does it only work when using certain sets? what am I missing
As a DW Magsorc basically you spam entropy until frag procs, then curse, frag, fury. Throw in a Dawnbreaker if you have it.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0