Stamina in not as good as magic in PvP

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Vireys wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Magika is currently superior to stam, yes. However, its not for any of the reasons anyone here has listed.

im pretty interested, can you enlighten us and list some stuff for us please?

The biggest reason is Itemization.

Medium armor has some desirable sets but the passives are drastically inferior to heavy armor for stamina builds.

Light armor has the best set selection in the game while also having superior passives for magika builds than heavy armor

Heavy armor has some good damage or mitigation choices but lacks a truly great sustain option for stamina.

Also, the presence of many desirable "back bar" sets for magika while stamina really lacks any stamina specific ones except coward's and briarheart. Light has set's like transmutation and riposte. These set's provide tons of sustain or a great mix of stats on their 2-4 pieces respectively while allowing you to gain excellent utility out of their 5 pieces.

There's also the unquestionable superiority in Mages guild skill line over Fighter's guild and a general imbalance in selection of ultimates. As I see it, stamina has 2 desirable weapons, both of which are used to some good effect by magika builds - SnB and DW. Meanwhile magika has access to the Destro staff, which again, has outstanding passives and gives you the ability to light attack weave at range. Plus the resto staff, undodgeable light and heavy attacks add free pressure that adds up and allows you to more reliably proc glyphs and poisons not to mention some great skills in this line as well. The "stamina specific" weapons - 2h and bow are both lackluster in their current performance on many builds.

There's more, but its got nothing at all to do with any of the misinformation being spouted in this thread imo. Magika has always had superior utility, but atm I think there's just more you can do on magika with less sacrifices than on stamina.

CatchMeTrolling · October 2017

Out of all the valid reasons you decided to use chasing someone to support your point? Lol

Witar · October 2017

If you believe that stamina is worse then you are sadly mistaken. The most OP builds are on stam warden, stam dk and stam nb.

Vapirko · October 2017

A gap close is not a wasted slot. They’re some of the most devistating attacks in the game and can be used to set up vicious combos. If you see a mag sorc trying to kite you away, don’t follow unless you know you can handle what you’re getting into. They’re just waiting for you to run out of stam so they can camp mines and then hit you with their burst. They know crystal frag cc will use up what little stam you have left. But honestly you’re much better off just letting them run off, those players can only win fights one way and they’re typicallt built to out kite you and then deliver a big burst of damage. I say let them have fun streaking across cyrodiil.

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

Don't worry boys. In about a week the OP will post a thread complaining that magicka is not as good as stamina because mag toons can't use mag to break free, dodge roll, or block.

Joy_Division · October 2017

If you're having trouble chasing down magicka builds on a stam toon, that's pretty bad.

Gap-closers are some of the best skills in the game, you should want to use them.

Trashs1 · October 2017

i think op is a troll and triggered u all xD well palyed!

his arguments are so terribly false that it cant be sereous..

Vireys · October 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

Since you are new on the forum i tell you the most important thing here:
L2P

Since you seem like a special rockstar ill tell you the most important thing here:

STOP SKIPPING SCHOOL KIDDO, YOULL NEWER BE A ROCKSTAR, AIGHT? !

Vireys · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The biggest reason is Itemization.

Thanks for the input and the writeup i get what youre saying here.

Vireys · October 2017

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Out of all the valid reasons you decided to use chasing someone to support your point? Lol

Yes! You have managed to understand a whole sentence!

Now tell me did you really Laugh Out Loud (lol) or do you just have a habbit from year 2001 that whatever you consider even remote/mildly snarky youll just put LOL in the end?

You seem like a cool friendly guy to be a round, thanks for youre input on the subject, i feel enlightent! LOL LOL

Vireys · October 2017

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Don't worry boys. In about a week the OP will post a thread complaining that magicka is not as good as stamina because mag toons can't use mag to break free, dodge roll, or block.

When do you get youre bracers off?

Vireys · October 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

A gap close is not a wasted slot. They’re some of the most devistating attacks in the game and can be used to set up vicious combos. If you see a mag sorc trying to kite you away, don’t follow unless you know you can handle what you’re getting into. They’re just waiting for you to run out of stam so they can camp mines and then hit you with their burst. They know crystal frag cc will use up what little stam you have left. But honestly you’re much better off just letting them run off, those players can only win fights one way and they’re typicallt built to out kite you and then deliver a big burst of damage. I say let them have fun streaking across cyrodiil.

Thanks this was good info.

Ragnaroek93 · October 2017

I'm pretty sure that magicka will be meta once Shuffle is taken away from heavy armor. Medium armor is weaker than light and heavy magicka and heavy armor stam gets a huge nerf with CwC. Last time which I visited the duel spot I only saw magicka builds running around - mag dks and magblades in specific... making magicka stronger at this point is ridiculous. Not starting to talk about the utility and AoE magicka brings with, nobody can disagree that magicka is far superior in group play compared to stamina, just look at busted magicka toys like riposte, transmu, eye of wrobel, spammable and strong aoe heals, restoult... Well... one stamina maneuver bot is probably useful in a group...

FearlessOne_2014 · October 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

i think op is a troll and triggered u all xD well palyed!

his arguments are so terribly false that it cant be sereous..

I highly agree

Aedaryl · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Vireys wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Magika is currently superior to stam, yes. However, its not for any of the reasons anyone here has listed.

im pretty interested, can you enlighten us and list some stuff for us please?

The biggest reason is Itemization.

Medium armor has some desirable sets but the passives are drastically inferior to heavy armor for stamina builds.

Light armor has the best set selection in the game while also having superior passives for magika builds than heavy armor

Not really, magicka DK doesn't run light armor, because heavy passives are better for them. You should also think on how the build play defensively, a shield user use light armor, a block user choose heavy armor. Magicka templar often go heavy too, and sometimes NB choose that way.

Heavy armor has some good damage or mitigation choices but lacks a truly great sustain option for stamina.

False, constitution associated with heavy attacks is a truly great susain for heavy armor. If you want more sustain, paired it with camoran drink + bone pirate (jewlery + weapons)

Also, the presence of many desirable "back bar" sets for magika while stamina really lacks any stamina specific ones except coward's and briarheart. Light has set's like transmutation and riposte. These set's provide tons of sustain or a great mix of stats on their 2-4 pieces respectively while allowing you to gain excellent utility out of their 5 pieces.

There's also the unquestionable superiority in Mages guild skill line over Fighter's guild and a general imbalance in selection of ultimates. As I see it, stamina has 2 desirable weapons, both of which are used to some good effect by magika builds - SnB and DW. Meanwhile magika has access to the Destro staff, which again, has outstanding passives and gives you the ability to light attack weave at range. Plus the resto staff, undodgeable light and heavy attacks add free pressure that adds up and allows you to more reliably proc glyphs and poisons not to mention some great skills in this line as well. The "stamina specific" weapons - 2h and bow are both lackluster in their current performance on many builds.

It's outragious here : Dawnbreaker is the best non class ultimate, even magicka player sometimes use it. Meteor is very bad in comparaison. Also, mage guild line have inner light where fighters guild have the trap. Magicka user only have destro staff and resto staff abilities to use. They sometimes use dual wield or 1h&S for passives only, while stamina can use all skills. Resto staff light attacks are dodgeable. About your lackluster things : 2h good skills : rally + uppercut + gap closer + execute. Resto good skills : healing ward + ultimate + mutagen. Bow good skills : poison injection + snipe + ultimate. Destro good skills : force pulse + destructive clench + ultimate. Only bow need a little buff to be competitive, you can't say 2h is lackluster.

There's more, but its got nothing at all to do with any of the misinformation being spouted in this thread imo. Magika has always had superior utility, but atm I think there's just more you can do on magika with less sacrifices than on stamina.

Magicka has more ultility in group, but you can't say you can do more on magicka with less sacrifices on stamina : Stamina have tankiness, major defile on demand and high single target damage.

Biro123 · October 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that magicka will be meta once Shuffle is taken away from heavy armor. Medium armor is weaker than light and heavy magicka and heavy armor stam gets a huge nerf with CwC. Last time which I visited the duel spot I only saw magicka builds running around - mag dks and magblades in specific... making magicka stronger at this point is ridiculous. Not starting to talk about the utility and AoE magicka brings with, nobody can disagree that magicka is far superior in group play compared to stamina, just look at busted magicka toys like riposte, transmu, eye of wrobel, spammable and strong aoe heals, restoult... Well... one stamina maneuver bot is probably useful in a group...

I think so too, sadly.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

i think op is a troll and triggered u all xD well palyed!

his arguments are so terribly false that it cant be sereous..

I highly agree

I also agree.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Stamina has more damage potential, magicka has more utility.

Its a give and take.

However. Bow has been neutered to the point of ridiculousness. Why on earth does a bow do less damage than sword and shield? Its just stupid.

Vireys · October 2017

Remember stamina users when you go to battle grounds to play capture the flag DONT SPRINT!

And no its not a handicap you can use potions and cap closers (they need LOS + range and to get to range you need to sprint so you can use cap closer unless youre target waits for you and doesent run)

Biro123 · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Stamina has more damage potential, magicka has more utility.

Its a give and take.

However. Bow has been neutered to the point of ridiculousness. Why on earth does a bow do less damage than sword and shield? Its just stupid.

Why not? I guess in the real world you could cut someones leg off with a sword, but an arrow only puts a little hole in.?

DeadlyRecluse · October 2017

Vireys wrote: »

I have depleted a lot of my most valuable resource (stam) while he has not drained his most valuable resource (magica) at all, so if i have to chase the fight starts me at say 60% and he at 100% resources.

If a magicka character drains is stam sprinting to avoid you, it should be pretty easy to kill him with one or two CCs.

If you are running out of stamina chasing people, you are chasing too hard and not building enough mobility (major expedition source, snare removal, gap closers, etc) into your kit.

The situation you are describing (where one player runs and the other chases) VASTLY favors stamina characters except for in the case of magsorc, to some extent.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Stamina has more damage potential, magicka has more utility.

Its a give and take.

However. Bow has been neutered to the point of ridiculousness. Why on earth does a bow do less damage than sword and shield? Its just stupid.

Why not? I guess in the real world you could cut someones leg off with a sword, but an arrow only puts a little hole in.?

Please do not use real life logic in a video game. Fact is the bow is a dps build weapon, and sword and shield is a tank weapon line, bow should have more damage out of principle, especially since it is a two handed weapon. Also, with a bow you can kill a grizzly IRL, with a sword, you cant.

Gilvoth · October 2017

this is a horrible reality that is not going to change.
eso has allways favored magicka over stamina.

Biro123 · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Stamina has more damage potential, magicka has more utility.

Its a give and take.

However. Bow has been neutered to the point of ridiculousness. Why on earth does a bow do less damage than sword and shield? Its just stupid.

Why not? I guess in the real world you could cut someones leg off with a sword, but an arrow only puts a little hole in.?

Please do not use real life logic in a video game. Fact is the bow is a dps build weapon, and sword and shield is a tank weapon line, bow should have more damage out of principle, especially since it is a two handed weapon. Also, with a bow you can kill a grizzly IRL, with a sword, you cant.

Ahh well, if you're talking game concepts, then they are whatever the devs want them to be. If they want sword+shield to be a dps line then it can be. If they want bow to be a utility line, or even a magica line - it can be..

Fact is - IF a bow does do less damage than s+b - then your 'fact' that bow is a dps weapon and snb is a tank weapon isn't all that factual..

Jade1986 · October 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Stamina has more damage potential, magicka has more utility.

Its a give and take.

However. Bow has been neutered to the point of ridiculousness. Why on earth does a bow do less damage than sword and shield? Its just stupid.

Why not? I guess in the real world you could cut someones leg off with a sword, but an arrow only puts a little hole in.?

Please do not use real life logic in a video game. Fact is the bow is a dps build weapon, and sword and shield is a tank weapon line, bow should have more damage out of principle, especially since it is a two handed weapon. Also, with a bow you can kill a grizzly IRL, with a sword, you cant.

Ahh well, if you're talking game concepts, then they are whatever the devs want them to be. If they want sword+shield to be a dps line then it can be. If they want bow to be a utility line, or even a magica line - it can be..

Fact is - IF a bow does do less damage than s+b - then your 'fact' that bow is a dps weapon and snb is a tank weapon isn't all that factual..

Look at the ultimates, look at the passives. Bow is clearly a dps line, sword and board is clearly a tank line. They have even said as much in the past. Hence why bows main damage ability has a huge dps symbol above it, and sNb has a tank symbol above it. That is also why the passives for snb are geared toward tanking and the passives for bow are geared toward damage. Yet when you have all the passives for SnB and Bow and you equip the weapons without buffs, SnB still has more base damage.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Vireys wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Magika is currently superior to stam, yes. However, its not for any of the reasons anyone here has listed.

im pretty interested, can you enlighten us and list some stuff for us please?

The biggest reason is Itemization.

Medium armor has some desirable sets but the passives are drastically inferior to heavy armor for stamina builds.

Light armor has the best set selection in the game while also having superior passives for magika builds than heavy armor

Not really, magicka DK doesn't run light armor, because heavy passives are better for them. You should also think on how the build play defensively, a shield user use light armor, a block user choose heavy armor. Magicka templar often go heavy too, and sometimes NB choose that way.

Heavy armor has some good damage or mitigation choices but lacks a truly great sustain option for stamina.

False, constitution associated with heavy attacks is a truly great susain for heavy armor. If you want more sustain, paired it with camoran drink + bone pirate (jewlery + weapons)

Also, the presence of many desirable "back bar" sets for magika while stamina really lacks any stamina specific ones except coward's and briarheart. Light has set's like transmutation and riposte. These set's provide tons of sustain or a great mix of stats on their 2-4 pieces respectively while allowing you to gain excellent utility out of their 5 pieces.

There's also the unquestionable superiority in Mages guild skill line over Fighter's guild and a general imbalance in selection of ultimates. As I see it, stamina has 2 desirable weapons, both of which are used to some good effect by magika builds - SnB and DW. Meanwhile magika has access to the Destro staff, which again, has outstanding passives and gives you the ability to light attack weave at range. Plus the resto staff, undodgeable light and heavy attacks add free pressure that adds up and allows you to more reliably proc glyphs and poisons not to mention some great skills in this line as well. The "stamina specific" weapons - 2h and bow are both lackluster in their current performance on many builds.

It's outragious here : Dawnbreaker is the best non class ultimate, even magicka player sometimes use it. Meteor is very bad in comparaison. Also, mage guild line have inner light where fighters guild have the trap. Magicka user only have destro staff and resto staff abilities to use. They sometimes use dual wield or 1h&S for passives only, while stamina can use all skills. Resto staff light attacks are dodgeable. About your lackluster things : 2h good skills : rally + uppercut + gap closer + execute. Resto good skills : healing ward + ultimate + mutagen. Bow good skills : poison injection + snipe + ultimate. Destro good skills : force pulse + destructive clench + ultimate. Only bow need a little buff to be competitive, you can't say 2h is lackluster.

There's more, but its got nothing at all to do with any of the misinformation being spouted in this thread imo. Magika has always had superior utility, but atm I think there's just more you can do on magika with less sacrifices than on stamina.

Magicka has more ultility in group, but you can't say you can do more on magicka with less sacrifices on stamina : Stamina have tankiness, major defile on demand and high single target damage.

MDK meta is 5 light just like every other magika build.

Heavy attacks are bugged and don't land properly for stam builds, can be blocked and dodged as well, constitution is not adequate sustain. Bone pirate+camoran is medium not heavy

DBoS > meteor but the rest of the skill line and passives favor mages guild, it's not even close lol

I couldn't disagree more with you and I can't even think of the last time I was worried about someone on a stam build unless I know they're better than me lol

ak_pvp · October 2017

Now this, my friendos is a text book l2p issue. Not just certain focuses, but waah mag is better. Play a stamden if you want stronk.

Vireys · October 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Now this, my friendos is a text book l2p issue. Not just certain focuses, but waah mag is better. Play a stamden if you want stronk.

Try harder, not good enough!

SugaComa · October 2017

Sorry op but you're an fool ...

As a magica user ... I get wrecked by stamina player

Why ... If I get rooted my stamina goes one trying to break free, my low stamina means I'm dead very quick if I'm incapacitated unable to move or block, yes I spam heals but that will drain my magic so fast I'm now out of stam and magic.

Also as a magic user how exactly do I run away for you to chase ... I have no stamina so while you used up some stamina to catch me I used up all mine trying to stay unrooted or dodging.
If your chasing magica user for so long you're draining 40% of your resource I hate to tell you this but you're chasing another stamina build.

And to be honest I find it's usually the stamina builds that run away not magica users ... we can't afford to spend stamina on running

Sandman929 · October 2017

Magicka just has more and better of what's effective in Cyrodiil, for what Cyrodiil has become. AoE.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Let's not forget to mention that in CWC stamina has to sacrifice its best burst heal or wear medium or be just as vulnerable to snares as magika. ATM, the only argument against magika builds is the lack of effective snare removal on most of them.

Next patch you either have meager healing, no mobility, or wear medium and the divide grows.

Note, there are some really strong stam specs, but as a whole magika is stronger than stam this patch because it can just do too many different things really well. I can block for 6 seconds, break a CC, dodge roll, and then go offensive without ruining my stam pool on any of my magika builds that need to utilize block. The reason for this is the prevalence of options to easily sustain stamina, even in light and the poor scaling of specific CP stars leading to shadow ward being a VERY valuable investment. This means that magika builds can sustain their stam pool easier than ever, I don't ever struggle with stam, literally ever. Once the issue of sustaining your off pool becomes irrelevant now you're just left to look at raw power and utility. Stamina outputs more raw damage but it lacks a lot of utility and with the shuffle change its losing most of it.