stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

I am not sure if this has been discussed, I havent seen it being discussed, but would there be any chance that the swamp raider set could proc from direct damage? As it stands now you have to waste a slot on a stam character to put in a useless magic damage ability.

@ZOS_Wrobel any chance for this?

stam DK...Flames of Oblivion...job done...no change needed

Thats one class though. For other classes it isn't very practical. Poison is generally a stamina used damage type , so having magicka be its proc is imo just off....

while all those replies are valid, those are all just for dk, there are archer builds for more than just dk.

Weps wrote: »

Is this set good on any other class?

Well, it could be useful for a bow warden, : cough : my main : cough : or any bow build for that matter, but we would have to waste slot in order to get the proc, and that is just dumb, same for any other stam build. There are ways to make a setup where you can achieve that 450 damage, but a change to the proc would be a HUGE QoL improvement to bow builds across the board. It would still be useful for dks because if it procced from direct damage or poison damage, it would still proc from your weapon abilities, and your ardent flame poison morphs.

Masel92 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Is this set good on any other class?

Well, it could be useful for a bow warden, : cough : my main : cough : or any bow build for that matter, but we would have to waste slot in order to get the proc, and that is just dumb, same for any other stam build. There are ways to make a setup where you can achieve that 450 damage, but a change to the proc would be a HUGE QoL improvement to bow builds across the board. It would still be useful for dks because if it procced from direct damage or poison damage, it would still proc from your weapon abilities, and your ardent flame poison morphs.

Bird of Prey, done. In raids use the Armor Buff, done. You still have to ahve 66.67% poison and disease damage to make it better than a different 5-piece set, so other sets are simply better damagewise, as no class reaches this portion of poison or disease damage.

My build , with sub optimal weapons and cp atm, reaches 17-20 k dps on dummies and raids with good tanks, and main bar is all poison, except for evil hunter. Poison injection, lethal arrow, sub assault and acid spray. Bird of prey would have to be used every ten seconds and would force you to remove something more useful, or force you to use a sub optimal consumable to increase magicka for only that ability. Have not tested it with the poison arrow ultimate , possibly better than bear, but havent had the time, or could be bothered till I have better gear and more cp. Main bar bow, until I get master bow, is also poison enchant, back bar weapon damage enchant. So , needless to say, there are builds that use tons of poison / disease damage.

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

laced wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

I am not sure if this has been discussed, I havent seen it being discussed, but would there be any chance that the swamp raider set could proc from direct damage? As it stands now you have to waste a slot on a stam character to put in a useless magic damage ability.

@ZOS_Wrobel any chance for this?

stam DK...Flames of Oblivion...job done...no change needed

Thats one class though. For other classes it isn't very practical. Poison is generally a stamina used damage type , so having magicka be its proc is imo just off....

while all those replies are valid, those are all just for dk, there are archer builds for more than just dk.

Sorc = Streak (maybe Dark Deal works?)
NB = Shadow Image
Templar = Ritual of Retribution
Warden = Crystallised Slab or Grippling Shards

Sorc- streak, sure they all use that. Would still be more useful to proc from physical, or direct damage.
NB - Pretty useless for a stamnb
Ritual - Very useful, never made a Templar, but still would benefit more from direct or physical attack change
Warden - Useful for melee builds, and the only poison ability they have is sub assault, much more useful for bow builds, which dont usually use that ability.

Shadow Image isn’t useless on a StamNB.

Crystalised Slab is very useful against ranged builds because of the damage mitigation. Grippling is useful against melee builds for when you’re trying to kite.

I don’t really know what your issue is, you said:

while all those replies are valid, those are all just for dk, there are archer builds for more than just dk

So I then gave you options for how Swamp Raider can easily be used on an archer build for every class yet you’re trying to counter them.

Edit: oh, because you’re talking about PvE

The thing is that limits your build, you are shoehorned into using specific abilities in order to use that set. What I am suggesting is making the set more useful for a broader range of builds. I just dont see the sense of making it proc from magic when it is clearly a stam set. Everything you said is valid, I am just stating why I think it would be better suited to proc of direct damage or poison. I am talking about pve and pvp, a broader range of players. I just dont see the sense in a stam set proccing from magic damage.

Gan Xing wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

laced wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

I am not sure if this has been discussed, I havent seen it being discussed, but would there be any chance that the swamp raider set could proc from direct damage? As it stands now you have to waste a slot on a stam character to put in a useless magic damage ability.

@ZOS_Wrobel any chance for this?

stam DK...Flames of Oblivion...job done...no change needed

Thats one class though. For other classes it isn't very practical. Poison is generally a stamina used damage type , so having magicka be its proc is imo just off....

while all those replies are valid, those are all just for dk, there are archer builds for more than just dk.

Sorc = Streak (maybe Dark Deal works?)
NB = Shadow Image
Templar = Ritual of Retribution
Warden = Crystallised Slab or Grippling Shards

Sorc- streak, sure they all use that. Would still be more useful to proc from physical, or direct damage.
NB - Pretty useless for a stamnb
Ritual - Very useful, never made a Templar, but still would benefit more from direct or physical attack change
Warden - Useful for melee builds, and the only poison ability they have is sub assault, much more useful for bow builds, which dont usually use that ability.

Shadow Image isn’t useless on a StamNB.

Crystalised Slab is very useful against ranged builds because of the damage mitigation. Grippling is useful against melee builds for when you’re trying to kite.

I don’t really know what your issue is, you said:

while all those replies are valid, those are all just for dk, there are archer builds for more than just dk

So I then gave you options for how Swamp Raider can easily be used on an archer build for every class yet you’re trying to counter them.

Edit: oh, because you’re talking about PvE

The thing is that limits your build, you are shoehorned into using specific abilities in order to use that set. What I am suggesting is making the set more useful for a broader range of builds. I just dont see the sense of making it proc from magic when it is clearly a stam set. Everything you said is valid, I am just stating why I think it would be better suited to proc of direct damage or poison. I am talking about pve and pvp, a broader range of players. I just dont see the sense in a stam set proccing from magic damage.

The set itself limits your build. Which is why I don't use it.

Its the same with sword singer, dancer, automaton, but they proc off of physical, or weapon attacks. This being one of the few poison proc sets, it just baffles me why it would proc off magicka.

I dont understand why some people are giving the suggestion blowback, some replies have been logical so far, but giving blowback for wanting something to be more viable for more builds and classes seems....counter productive to me.

Ladislao wrote: »

OP, if you want to improve some sets you should start with the weakest.
What about Ashen Grip? Is it more viable than Swamp Rider in PVP/PVE? Maybe it is needed for very specific builds? Fire-breathing WW

There are indeed some ridiculous sets out there, I know, and wouldn't ever deny it. I was just specifically wondering about this one.

I am looking at you marksman staves.....

Gan Xing wrote: »

I think when they designed this set, it was to encourage building like a hybrid, but with current mechanics, it becomes wasted. I tried to make it work with my Hybrid DK (in PTS so I didn't have to work as hard to obtain the pieces), and it was pointless, as my current set up works better.

That is what I am thinking, I mean, maybe this set wouldve been useful at launch, but now, its kinda pointless. It has potential , but its potential is wasted by how its procced.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Is this set good on any other class?

Well, it could be useful for a bow warden, : cough : my main : cough : or any bow build for that matter, but we would have to waste slot in order to get the proc, and that is just dumb, same for any other stam build. There are ways to make a setup where you can achieve that 450 damage, but a change to the proc would be a HUGE QoL improvement to bow builds across the board. It would still be useful for dks because if it procced from direct damage or poison damage, it would still proc from your weapon abilities, and your ardent flame poison morphs.

Bird of Prey, done. In raids use the Armor Buff, done. You still have to ahve 66.67% poison and disease damage to make it better than a different 5-piece set, so other sets are simply better damagewise, as no class reaches this portion of poison or disease damage.

My build , with sub optimal weapons and cp atm, reaches 17-20 k dps on dummies and raids with good tanks, and main bar is all poison, except for evil hunter. Poison injection, lethal arrow, sub assault and acid spray. Bird of prey would have to be used every ten seconds and would force you to remove something more useful, or force you to use a sub optimal consumable to increase magicka for only that ability. Have not tested it with the poison arrow ultimate , possibly better than bear, but havent had the time, or could be bothered till I have better gear and more cp. Main bar bow, until I get master bow, is also poison enchant, back bar weapon damage enchant. So , needless to say, there are builds that use tons of poison / disease damage.

Toxic Barrage while mildly useful as a burst ultimate, is a dps loss. @Masel92 is correct, you need 66%+ poison damage to make it worth it.

Endless Hail alone is roughly 20%, light attacks are another 10% for bow main bar, caltrops are another 8%, trap is another 6-8%. These are all physical, ballista is another 6%, its physical.

17-20k dps with a tank is not good, especially on a NB. 25-28k is very attainable solo buffed with low cp and sub par weapons.

To be fair for bow setups, utilizing Lethal Arrow, Swamp Raider if you have a good option to proc it isnt far behind, but it is behind and worse than just using Hundings. DKs have the only good option to proc it in FOO.

Where did I say it was a nightblade? Or a tank? It is a warden. And no, it is not easily attainable. Especially when you dont have fighters guild maxed out, or a crafter that is maxed out either. 35 k is pretty much the top you can ever reach as a bow / bow build, average is probably around 20 k. Bow / bow is the most difficult build out there, especially if you are not a nb, and not using dual wield on your back bar. Get off your high horse, there are very very few people out there that can reach the 27-30 k mark as a bow / bow build. And without the master and vMA bows you can downright forget it. Also, wardens have sub assault, which you can weave into your rotations for more poison damage. Which does more damage per 3 seconds than trap does over time.

And when did this become a " lets nit pick on her setup because we dont have anything better to do? " Thread? This is supposed to be about how to improve the swamp raider set, yet somehow it turned into " lets attack her build " thread.

Regardless if it is less useful than other sets, swamp raider would be far more useful in general if it procced off something else aside from magic damage. This would be like having a magicka set that procs off physical damage, which would also be just ridiculous.

Gan Xing wrote: »

I think when they designed this set, it was to encourage building like a hybrid, but with current mechanics, it becomes wasted. I tried to make it work with my Hybrid DK (in PTS so I didn't have to work as hard to obtain the pieces), and it was pointless, as my current set up works better.

That is what I am thinking, I mean, maybe this set wouldve been useful at launch, but now, its kinda pointless. It has potential , but its potential is wasted by how its procced.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

I think when they designed this set, it was to encourage building like a hybrid, but with current mechanics, it becomes wasted. I tried to make it work with my Hybrid DK (in PTS so I didn't have to work as hard to obtain the pieces), and it was pointless, as my current set up works better.

That is what I am thinking, I mean, maybe this set wouldve been useful at launch, but now, its kinda pointless. It has potential , but its potential is wasted by how its procced.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Is this set good on any other class?

Well, it could be useful for a bow warden, : cough : my main : cough : or any bow build for that matter, but we would have to waste slot in order to get the proc, and that is just dumb, same for any other stam build. There are ways to make a setup where you can achieve that 450 damage, but a change to the proc would be a HUGE QoL improvement to bow builds across the board. It would still be useful for dks because if it procced from direct damage or poison damage, it would still proc from your weapon abilities, and your ardent flame poison morphs.

Bird of Prey, done. In raids use the Armor Buff, done. You still have to ahve 66.67% poison and disease damage to make it better than a different 5-piece set, so other sets are simply better damagewise, as no class reaches this portion of poison or disease damage.

My build , with sub optimal weapons and cp atm, reaches 17-20 k dps on dummies and raids with good tanks, and main bar is all poison, except for evil hunter. Poison injection, lethal arrow, sub assault and acid spray. Bird of prey would have to be used every ten seconds and would force you to remove something more useful, or force you to use a sub optimal consumable to increase magicka for only that ability. Have not tested it with the poison arrow ultimate , possibly better than bear, but havent had the time, or could be bothered till I have better gear and more cp. Main bar bow, until I get master bow, is also poison enchant, back bar weapon damage enchant. So , needless to say, there are builds that use tons of poison / disease damage.

Toxic Barrage while mildly useful as a burst ultimate, is a dps loss. @Masel92 is correct, you need 66%+ poison damage to make it worth it.

Endless Hail alone is roughly 20%, light attacks are another 10% for bow main bar, caltrops are another 8%, trap is another 6-8%. These are all physical, ballista is another 6%, its physical.

17-20k dps with a tank is not good, especially on a NB. 25-28k is very attainable solo buffed with low cp and sub par weapons.

To be fair for bow setups, utilizing Lethal Arrow, Swamp Raider if you have a good option to proc it isnt far behind, but it is behind and worse than just using Hundings. DKs have the only good option to proc it in FOO.

Where did I say it was a nightblade? Or a tank? It is a warden. And no, it is not easily attainable. Especially when you dont have fighters guild maxed out, or a crafter that is maxed out either. 35 k is pretty much the top you can ever reach as a bow / bow build, average is probably around 20 k. Bow / bow is the most difficult build out there, especially if you are not a nb, and not using dual wield on your back bar. Get off your high horse, there are very very few people out there that can reach the 27-30 k mark as a bow / bow build. And without the master and vMA bows you can downright forget it. Also, wardens have sub assault, which you can weave into your rotations for more poison damage. Which does more damage per 3 seconds than trap does over time.

And when did this become a " lets nit pick on her setup because we dont have anything better to do? " Thread? This is supposed to be about how to improve the swamp raider set, yet somehow it turned into " lets attack her build " thread.

Regardless if it is less useful than other sets, swamp raider would be far more useful in general if it procced off something else aside from magic damage. This would be like having a magicka set that procs off physical damage, which would also be just ridiculous.

My mistake about class I thought you posted somewhere that you were on a NB.

For a warden bow/bow adding a tank offers nothing as you get major fracture from Sub Assault. 20k is good depending on how low your CP and what your weapons are in relation to your setup.

VMA will net you 3k dps, VDSA will net another 700-1000 dps in optimal conditions.

Regardless Swamp Raider is a dps loss. You can show mathematically that for 450 weapon damage to poison/diseas effects to out weigh 300 weapon damage to all effects. Then you need 66%+ of your damage to be poison/disease effects. Which isnt very realistic, more so after you get a VMA bow Endless Hail shoots up in damage and you really dont have have 66%.

And perhaps if you bothered to read my signature you would see I am quite familiar with bow/bow output.

That is actually why I was really confused , and slightly irked. I planned on doing automaton and serpent something another, cant remember the name, eventually but I just need the damned time tbh. Busy busy. I adjusted my cp quite a bit now, and i will test it tomorrow . Since you are familiar with bow, should you even bother with the penetration cp point for pve? Or no? Also, should I remove my points in the light and heavy attack bonus damage point, and put it all into the dot and physical/poison point?

Asardes wrote: »

Actually Swamp Raider was not introduced at launch. It was introduced with IC. Initially was found in ICP and called Toxic Defiance. They only made it an overland set with One Tamriel. Has always been lackluster.

Which makes even less sense! xD I really hope they change the proc, I am not holding my breath, but it would only make sense to.

So Incap can be even more broken in Cyrodiil then it already is? No thanks, I’ll pass

templesus wrote: »

So Incap can be even more broken in Cyrodiil then it already is? No thanks, I’ll pass

Its for more than one build, if you would have bothered reading the thread you would have realizedthat.

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

I suppose a bow NB could proc this set from range with impale.

Another set to mess around with.

There are possibilities, but that would be like having a magicka set proc from a heavy melee attack.