PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Templar

Minno · October 2017

@Cinbri thanks for the diligent testing!

yes I agree UC is now in a much better spot! It will be used on my bar as both an AOE burst to replace valkyn and the tooltip DMG you have is what it is on live except we now have a unique unblocked/undodgeable attack to make up for the lack of undodgeable cc.

I disagree with you on UC cost reduction or range suggestion. For unblocked and undodgeable cc, it should be limited by it's single target application the cost and it's range suggests more synergy with the melee attacks that Templars have. I think they can explore this in a future patch. We need they to review total dark and other Templar spells.

For total dark, I agree, the cc immunity drain and lack of punishment for breaking free early is still an issue for that morph.

I agree on all your other points regarding the templar skills. I want to add that sweeps has had it's healing nerfed because we had major mending and then we had major mending removed without restoring the heal back on sweeps. And the change too how percentages are calculated messed up the DMG for sweeps and Jesus beam, both of which impact the morphs heavily.

Any stamplars have any thoughts? We need their input (especially since total dark is still open for potential changes; I would like it to receive some love for our stamplar brothers and sisters.)

maxjapank · October 2017

I actually was happy with the buffs to Eclipse, Cinbri. Said so immediately in my guild. Refrained from here on this thread cause of reasons. lol.

Elsterchen · October 2017

Uhhhmmm, how about one stamina morph of eclipse?
* please don't hit me... purge is too expensive and my eclipse isn't even close to yours (dmg -wise... the costs are equal)... and my jabs do not heal*

Nice of you to ask, but I guess a few things are going to get changed before eclipse hits live. As it stands now, it will be a wunderfull skill for magplars. Thanks for that Zeni and thanks for testing @Cinbri.

I don't know what else to say, if I ask for a CC ... nah, its going to be OP if magplars could utilize it.

Staminasteal - or something in that line bolstering ressource management, might be an interesting alternative to a stamina version of eclipse.

Or a stamina version of rune focus maybe? Cheap, if I may dream: moving, little extra defence... preferably not linked to major resolve/ward (although in that number-range of boost) to really add some usefull and easily expandable tankyness.

If I get crazy I would even suggest something like "word of god" -> Let there be Silence! linked to rite of passage... that could be extremely interesting ... but maybe again leads to very OP magplars.

Lastly, why not make sunshield scale from either health or stamina whichever is higher? - it would be a little bonus to stamplars with little consequences to existing builds.

Minno · October 2017

Elsterchen wrote: »

Uhhhmmm, how about one stamina morph of eclipse?
* please don't hit me... purge is too expensive and my eclipse isn't even close to yours (dmg -wise... the costs are equal)... and my jabs do not heal*

Nice of you to ask, but I guess a few things are going to get changed before eclipse hits live. As it stands now, it will be a wunderfull skill for magplars. Thanks for that Zeni and thanks for testing @Cinbri.

I don't know what else to say, if I ask for a CC ... nah, its going to be OP if magplars could utilize it.

Staminasteal - or something in that line bolstering ressource management, might be an interesting alternative to a stamina version of eclipse.

Or a stamina version of rune focus maybe? Cheap, if I may dream: moving, little extra defence... preferably not linked to major resolve/ward (although in that number-range of boost) to really add some usefull and easily expandable tankyness.

If I get crazy I would even suggest something like "word of god" -> Let there be Silence! linked to rite of passage... that could be extremely interesting ... but maybe again leads to very OP magplars.

Lastly, why not make sunshield scale from either health or stamina whichever is higher? - it would be a little bonus to stamplars with little consequences to existing builds.

They could give channeling focus stamina return as well. But not both at the same time "mag or stamina which ever is lower". But I'm worried that would impact pve and therefore good luck trying to get them to agree to anything lol.

Cinbri · October 2017

Minno wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Uhhhmmm, how about one stamina morph of eclipse?
* please don't hit me... purge is too expensive and my eclipse isn't even close to yours (dmg -wise... the costs are equal)... and my jabs do not heal*

Nice of you to ask, but I guess a few things are going to get changed before eclipse hits live. As it stands now, it will be a wunderfull skill for magplars. Thanks for that Zeni and thanks for testing @Cinbri.

I don't know what else to say, if I ask for a CC ... nah, its going to be OP if magplars could utilize it.

Staminasteal - or something in that line bolstering ressource management, might be an interesting alternative to a stamina version of eclipse.

Or a stamina version of rune focus maybe? Cheap, if I may dream: moving, little extra defence... preferably not linked to major resolve/ward (although in that number-range of boost) to really add some usefull and easily expandable tankyness.

If I get crazy I would even suggest something like "word of god" -> Let there be Silence! linked to rite of passage... that could be extremely interesting ... but maybe again leads to very OP magplars.

Lastly, why not make sunshield scale from either health or stamina whichever is higher? - it would be a little bonus to stamplars with little consequences to existing builds.

They could give channeling focus stamina return as well. But not both at the same time "mag or stamina which ever is lower". But I'm worried that would impact pve and therefore good luck trying to get them to agree to anything lol.

Well, I doubt they will add stamina return to any of focuses. Coz Restoring focus gained minor protection buff back in time.
But that's why it would be nice if Honor the Dead would get adjusted mechanic for its buff to restore it max resource, for example. Stamplar could slot Honor on bar and waste mana on cast it and it would restore 60% of mana cost of skill as stamina for them, and given that mana cost of Honor for stamplars is super high - they would get high stamina returns by casting expensive magicka skill. For magplars it wouldn't change anything, and thus not nerf but just adjustment.

Minno wrote: »

@Cinbri thanks for the diligent testing!

yes I agree UC is now in a much better spot! It will be used on my bar as both an AOE burst to replace valkyn and the tooltip DMG you have is what it is on live except we now have a unique unblocked/undodgeable attack to make up for the lack of undodgeable cc.

I disagree with you on UC cost reduction or range suggestion. For unblocked and undodgeable cc, it should be limited by it's single target application the cost and it's range suggests more synergy with the melee attacks that Templars have. I think they can explore this in a future patch. We need they to review total dark and other Templar spells.

For total dark, I agree, the cc immunity drain and lack of punishment for breaking free early is still an issue for that morph.

I agree on all your other points regarding the templar skills. I want to add that sweeps has had it's healing nerfed because we had major mending and then we had major mending removed without restoring the heal back on sweeps. And the change too how percentages are calculated messed up the DMG for sweeps and Jesus beam, both of which impact the morphs heavily.

Any stamplars have any thoughts? We need their input (especially since total dark is still open for potential changes; I would like it to receive some love for our stamplar brothers and sisters.)

It so much more stronger than UC on live. Currently we can just use it for 3.5 explosion that can be easily blocked or purged, tho why I stoped using this morph. But now on pts it a bit weaker solar bomb but it unblockable and unpurgable, i.e. there is no way to counter it anymore. And unlike similar skills of other classes it dont have cooldown - you can just stand there and spam it on enemy and each new bomb will detonate previous. And in addition now it also have CC effect(no need anymore to slot that terrible Javelin or other CCs) that will proc ton of unblockable damage. And as current live it remained uncapped so you can spam it on 2,3,10 enemies at once.

Solariken wrote: »

I hope this stays, they made it sound like they intended that you would no longer be able to use the skill at all on immune targets.

And that is very nice coz it mean they did read why bomb should bypass cooldown and all our walls of text, like below, are not just a waste of time, despite people feel so.

"Cinbri wrote: »

3. Unstable Core - already showed in previous post that its current mechanic simply not working as intended coz break free mechanic, but on other hand making it unblockable feels a bit weird: unblockable aoe that you can spam in cyro on as many enemies as you want. The problem with this morph is almost same as it has with current live version, including disparity of morphs:
ZOS dont want to make you bypass cooldown, but that is what making this morph completely unviable nor in pvp, nor in pve, you restricted morphs feature by another mechanic. Both morphs differentiated to be defensive and offensive, but on live UC feels uncompleted because unlike default skill it lost it main component - CC, even despite its high damage this loss of being CC feels for Templar too obviously, not to mention that that mechanic was forced to extract 1 particular morph from being affected by Enduring Rays. That symbolizing that something is wrong with morph. This problem now fixed by granting it soft CC capability, but in the cost of loosing a lot of damage. It means while other problem was fixed (being CC), another returned - offense capability is neglected, removing morphs diversity once again.
Let me theorycraft even further: each tick of CC is equal to aoe damage of Solar Barrage, but unlike Barrage it is single target damage, i.e. UC proc has same damage as aoe but as everyone knows aoes hits not for high damage, their job is to trade it low damage for being able to deal damage to several targets. With changes to Barrage it even more unfair since first one can tick 3 times of 8m aoe.
UC does have cd restriction: it deal damage only to one target but can proc several times but also have ~7 seconds cooldown unlike other aoes.
Next, is solar bomb - it is deal 50% more damage but it has strong restriction for it - only per 7 in perfect state or per 12 seconds, also fit possibility of proc damage its aoe damage decreased on 10% in compare to live; and in addition to all other Templar class AoEs that are 8m, solar bomb has only 5m aoe. It despite it being attached to enemy and cant be dodged - but exact same mechanic of aoes - they cant be dodged, while Shards majority of damage also cant be blocked, however solar bomb can have even one more counter - it can be easily purged.
UC is not hard CC but unique soft CC, making it a bit weaker than ordinary CCs.
Being included back to Enduring Rays means decrease of its dps for more than 25%.
So as recap:
1.In group fights, even if it 2vX morph stop working completely coz teammates CCs despite it not even being hard CC ability.
2. It stop working completely in pve against bosses and elite mobs.
3. TD lost majority of its offense by removing time bomb from morph but UC lost not just 10% damage of time bomb but also unable to be used as dps skill.
4. Restrictions on damage for damage morph is too punishing, given that it already weaker aoe than others.
5. Total Dark and Unstable Core fit different roles but survivability of TD on such an high level (should also mention that unlike it own and UC damage component that benefit from 5 CPs it has addition healing component that also benefit from 3 CPs) that UC kept is weaker morph as it was always. UC unlike TD don't allow you to survive but now it also not allow you to deal damage.
You don't want us to bypass natural cooldown of morph to play its role, but there is natural cooldown - you cant apply bubble that will proc single target damage on target at any given time, it has 7-12 sec cooldown, and now also morph effect has exact same cooldown. TD don't care about it coz it just "cast and gets your benefit" same as on live, even if it will be broken it filling its role - to defend Templar (even aainst combination of follo-up attack) and thus it have 7 sec cd on its effect; but UC became completely lockdown by cooldown. I just suggest to invert that natural cooldown that we should not bypass:
and to differentiate morphs even larger, same as currently on live by making it work like current live Total Dark - apply time bomb even on immune enemies, would transform it in long-awaited AoE CC. If that too much you can simply add range restriction and cap for 1 target only to balance.
It will unify both roles but in a weaker state:
1. It cost more than any other Templar aoe or weapon skill aoe, availabe to Templar.
2. As CC it wont be hard CC but soft CC that in addition to being able to be CC Break it also be can be purged (tho would be nice if would get Deto threatment - to explode on purge).
3. As AoE damage ability it wouldn't be as hard hitting as others: only 5m blockable AoE.
4. Smallersingle target damage have cooldown per 7-12 seconds. It is that cooldown restriction that we wont be able to bypass.
5. On CC immune enemies it will be just a bomb that hit 10% lower than current live and overall dps of time bombs will be decreased more than 25% than on live coz this -10% in addition to increase texplode cast from 3.5 to 5 sec.
With such change I would gladly traded survivability that TD grant for damage of UC.

Elsterchen · October 2017

@Minno

They could give channeling focus stamina return as well. But not both at the same time "mag or stamina which ever is lower". But I'm worried that would impact pve and therefore good luck trying to get them to agree to anything lol.

I would complain too, I need reliable ressource management, and all alternative options make skills unreliable (unless they scale of max ressource ofc).

technohic · October 2017

TD and UC scale of magicka or is it a flat value? Kind of regretting going stamplar now but I do love the playstyle.

Minno · October 2017

Elsterchen wrote: »

@Minno

They could give channeling focus stamina return as well. But not both at the same time "mag or stamina which ever is lower". But I'm worried that would impact pve and therefore good luck trying to get them to agree to anything lol.

I would complain too, I need reliable ressource management, and all alternative options make skills unreliable (unless they scale of max ressource ofc).

Yea agreed. Cinbri had a good suggestion with honor the dead granting the resorce return as your max stat. It would give stamplars a mag dump that returns Stam and magplar can still have a strong heal.

danno8 · October 2017

Yes it would seem that Unstable Core will apply the end of timer explosion even if the target is CC immune, just not the reflect part. That is fair, although I do question whether the "explode and refresh" on recast should occur given the strength of the skill.

The reflect portion still won't work at all on anything other than trash mobs, so this is only a PvP skill Imo. Albeit a strong one now.

My Templar senses are tingling, I sense a nerf before live.

Minno · October 2017

danno8 wrote: »

Yes it would seem that Unstable Core will apply the end of timer explosion even if the target is CC immune, just not the reflect part. That is fair, although I do question whether the "explode and refresh" on recast should occur given the strength of the skill.

The reflect portion still won't work at all on anything other than trash mobs, so this is only a PvP skill Imo. Albeit a strong one now.

My Templar senses are tingling, I sense a nerf before live.

Well that's why I said above the cost justifies this now. Any more and you are straining resorces and any less it would be OP. The cost, single target cast limitation, and cc immunity stopping other CC's from disabling the target make up for the fact we now have an attack that will ignore other counters, including the OP block.

If a nerf has to happen, I can see it on the 67% DMG buff and bringing it back to 50%. But the skill looks like a much needed buff for PvP magplars, enough to suggest valkyn skoria can be dropped on some builds, at the 67% buff level.

Cinbri · October 2017

technohic wrote: »

TD and UC scale of magicka or is it a flat value? Kind of regretting going stamplar now but I do love the playstyle.

It scale from spell damage and max magicka, and benefit from Blessed, Elfborn, Spellerosion, Ele expert, Quick recovery, Master-at-arms, Shuttering blows CPs, in addition to all minor and major healing and damage buffs.

Joy_Division · October 2017

I have yet to test the new Eclipse. It's possible the radical increase in damage and making it unblockable has made the skill akin to Haunting Curse and thus desirable independent of it's intended function as a defensive skill.

I still hate the cost increase to Purify. I can assure ZoS and everyone else that the skill is so expensive already, it is used strategically as spamming it is a losing proposition.

Purifying ritual costs 3705 [!] magicka and removes two debuffs.

An animation cancelled poison injection costs 2430 stamina and can put 4 debuffs on a templar (the ability DoT, the siphoner CP resource debuff, potential poison proc, also a potential weapon proc).

Because there are so many debuffs as it is, a templar who doesn't chose Extended ritual will always have some sort of debuffs afflicting them even if they use the spell. Hell, I have Extended and there are times I am still debuffed after cleansing.

The only people who think templars need to make more "strategic" use of Purifying Ritual are people who don't play templars. Let's say I as a strategically minded templar and strategically use my Purify spell (3705 magicka) to cleanse a Dragonknight who hits me with a Burning Embers spell (1350 magicka). What do I do if the Dragonknight simply hits me again with Burning Embers? Cleanse it again? You do realize the Dragonknight is expending very little resources and still hitting the templar for respectable damage whereas the Templar is expending far more resources and doing potentially nothing to the Dragonknight. The templar will lose because the spell is already so expensive that it is a losing proposition to spam it .

This cost increase is not necessary.

As far as Healing Ritual, we have said for years now templars aren't going to use the skill. We have tried to explain with words and since that won't work, I will try with pictures.

This is the amount of healing I can do with Healing Ritual:

This is the amount of healing I can do with Healing Springs:

Same gear, same bars, same variables, same everything. I can get 50% more healing that can't be interrupted, that I can block-cast, that I can put on any spot 28 meters away from me, that I can "pre-cast" in anticipation of damage, and that starts immediately healing from using Healing Springs. Reform the templar ability to do something different. Please.

Feanor · October 2017

Great @Joy_Division now Wrobel will nerf Healing Springs next to make Hasty Prayer a more interesting choice.

Minno · October 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Great @Joy_Division now Wrobel will nerf Healing Springs next to make Hasty Prayer a more interesting choice.

Actually the opposite, hasty prayer will get a cost increase to make templars healers less BiS for raids in pve

Why do you think purge cost got increased? Resto staff couldn't compete with the purge effects so they increased the cost to make resto staff healing more attractive.

#halfjoking

danno8 · October 2017

Minno wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Great @Joy_Division now Wrobel will nerf Healing Springs next to make Hasty Prayer a more interesting choice.

Actually the opposite, hasty prayer will get a cost increase to make templars healers less BiS for raids in pve

Why do you think purge cost got increased? Resto staff couldn't compete with the purge effects so they increased the cost to make resto staff healing more attractive.

#halfjoking

[img][/img]

Feanor · October 2017

Serious question regarding Eclipse though - I hopped in the PTS and checked the values on my Templar. The tooltip was 5.7k for UC - on a healer build. Sounds a bit too strong in my humble opinion. But regardless, my question was:

a) Does the damage proc from UC count towards Purifying/PotL and gets stored?
b) Are damage set procs direct damage in the context of UC (Viper not probably)?
c) How about Boundless Storm and Hurricane? Do they proc UC too?

Rhawl’ka was empty so I couldn’t test it.

FlamingBeard · October 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Serious question regarding Eclipse though - I hopped in the PTS and checked the values on my Templar. The tooltip was 5.7k for UC - on a healer build. Sounds a bit too strong in my humble opinion. But regardless, my question was:

a) Does the damage proc from UC count towards Purifying/PotL and gets stored?
b) Are damage set procs direct damage in the context of UC (Viper not probably)?
c) How about Boundless Storm and Hurricane? Do they proc UC too?

Rhawl’ka was empty so I couldn’t test it.

I imagine the damage would contribute to Purifying Light, but why would anyone leave it on themselves that long?

None of that stuff really matters as long as you use CC break when you see the huge dark sphere around your character.

A Templar using that skill on anyone with half a brain is simply giving that player free CC immunity at the cost of a lot of Magicka.

Also, Eclipse will work from Direct Damage. as long as you just CC break before doing any targeted damage, you'll never see any significant harm done from the skill to yourself.

It won't do anything to DoT effects.

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Serious question regarding Eclipse though - I hopped in the PTS and checked the values on my Templar. The tooltip was 5.7k for UC - on a healer build. Sounds a bit too strong in my humble opinion. But regardless, my question was:

a) Does the damage proc from UC count towards Purifying/PotL and gets stored?
b) Are damage set procs direct damage in the context of UC (Viper not probably)?
c) How about Boundless Storm and Hurricane? Do they proc UC too?

Rhawl’ka was empty so I couldn’t test it.

I imagine the damage would contribute to Purifying Light, but why would anyone leave it on themselves that long?

None of that stuff really matters as long as you use CC break when you see the huge dark sphere around your character.

A Templar using that skill on anyone with half a brain is simply giving that player free CC immunity at the cost of a lot of Magicka.

Also, Eclipse will work from Direct Damage. as long as you just CC break before doing any targeted damage, you'll never see any significant harm done from the skill to yourself.

It won't do anything to DoT effects.

The first tick off dots, aka the application right?

FlamingBeard · October 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Serious question regarding Eclipse though - I hopped in the PTS and checked the values on my Templar. The tooltip was 5.7k for UC - on a healer build. Sounds a bit too strong in my humble opinion. But regardless, my question was:

a) Does the damage proc from UC count towards Purifying/PotL and gets stored?
b) Are damage set procs direct damage in the context of UC (Viper not probably)?
c) How about Boundless Storm and Hurricane? Do they proc UC too?

Rhawl’ka was empty so I couldn’t test it.

I imagine the damage would contribute to Purifying Light, but why would anyone leave it on themselves that long?

None of that stuff really matters as long as you use CC break when you see the huge dark sphere around your character.

A Templar using that skill on anyone with half a brain is simply giving that player free CC immunity at the cost of a lot of Magicka.

Also, Eclipse will work from Direct Damage. as long as you just CC break before doing any targeted damage, you'll never see any significant harm done from the skill to yourself.

It won't do anything to DoT effects.

The first tick off dots, aka the application right?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Checkmath · October 2017

as told by zenimax first tick of dots also will apply the damage to the enemy in TD or UC. i am not sure yet if the damage counts as direct attack or dot, since skoria procced in my testing. most proc sets count as direct damage and i cozld imagine, that boundless storm and hurricane wont proc TD or UC.

FlamingBeard · October 2017

Checkmath wrote: »

as told by zenimax first tick of dots also will apply the damage to the enemy in TD or UC. i am not sure yet if the damage counts as direct attack or dot, since skoria procced in my testing. most proc sets count as direct damage and i cozld imagine, that boundless storm and hurricane wont proc TD or UC.

An extremely easy hard counter to that is just not reapplying your DoTs until you've broken CC.

You should be CC breaking as soon as you see the big and bold dark sphere around yourself, then taking advantage of the free CC immunity without a stun attached someone just gifted you with by using Eclipse on you.

Minno · October 2017

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

as told by zenimax first tick of dots also will apply the damage to the enemy in TD or UC. i am not sure yet if the damage counts as direct attack or dot, since skoria procced in my testing. most proc sets count as direct damage and i cozld imagine, that boundless storm and hurricane wont proc TD or UC.

An extremely easy hard counter to that is just not reapplying your DoTs until you've broken CC.

You should be CC breaking as soon as you see the big and bold dark sphere around yourself, then taking advantage of the free CC immunity without a stun attached someone just gifted you with by using Eclipse on you.

Hard counter will be block before explosion. Then make sure to get your burst ready to put templars on the defensive. That's why they made purge cost more

.

LordSlif · October 2017

I'm still waiting for a change on solar barrage

Solariken · October 2017

The base cost increase to Cleansing Ritual is a very lazy change. I totally understand why they think it needs adjusted - the skill is VERY strong.

Increasing base cost is just a kick in the nuts to Stamplars, most of whom can only cast it 3 times consecutively already while it is only a very minor nerf to magplar.

Why not instead REDUCE the base cost as compared to live and give it the 4-second cost scaling penalty (edit: like Streak, Dodge roll). THAT is how you promote strategic use.

While you're at it, do the same for Cloak and Reflective Scale. Warden doesn't really have a signature move like the 4 vanilla classes but Wardens need a few gentle survivability nerfs too IMO.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2017

@Cinbri
Eclipse is still not good enough in pvp when an enemy is likely to be using immovable pots or immovable itself or recently been CCed or break out of your first Eclipse.
It's a one-shot wonder, if you're lucky.

It's useless as hell in pve. Yes, the one morph may be good, but what if we want heals back against a boss? or to actually reflect the boss attack for defense for ourselves or the tank? It just doesn't work against anything worth hitting with it.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2017

Cinbri wrote: »

2. Still old bug when enemy grant CC immunity by purging Eclipse:

3. It still grant CC immunity for free after expire. Soft CCs should not grant CC immunity unless actively countered.

FYI, that's intended behavior from the very first patch notes for PTS 3.2.0. They want it to cause CC Immunity in all instances even though it isn't a real CC because it doesn't stop self-buffing/healing or movement in any way.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2017

Solariken wrote: »

Why not instead REDUCE the base cost as compared to live and give it the 4-second cost scaling penalty (edit: like Streak, Dodge roll). THAT is how you promote strategic use.

While you're at it, do the same for Cloak and Reflective Scale. Warden doesn't really have a signature move like the 4 vanilla classes but Wardens need a few gentle survivability nerfs too IMO.

I could support that 4 second escalating cost, but it sucks on streak because it is an instant very short effect that you want to spam. It would work on a long term HoT/DoT like Ritual.
I definitely wouldn't want to see it on cloak either because you need to spam cloak to get out of range of guards in the city when you've got bounty, among other uses.

The escalating cost for spamming a skill mechanic really shouldn't be on short duration skills. It should be on longer duration skills intended to be used less often, if at all.

Solariken · October 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Why not instead REDUCE the base cost as compared to live and give it the 4-second cost scaling penalty (edit: like Streak, Dodge roll). THAT is how you promote strategic use.

While you're at it, do the same for Cloak and Reflective Scale. Warden doesn't really have a signature move like the 4 vanilla classes but Wardens need a few gentle survivability nerfs too IMO.

I could support that 4 second escalating cost, but it sucks on streak because it is an instant very short effect that you want to spam. It would work on a long term HoT/DoT like Ritual.
I definitely wouldn't want to see it on cloak either because you need to spam cloak to get out of range of guards in the city when you've got bounty, among other uses.

The escalating cost for spamming a skill mechanic really shouldn't be on short duration skills. It should be on longer duration skills intended to be used less often, if at all.

Many people probably disagree with me on cloak, but I'm of the opinion that "perma-stealth" is as cancerous as perma-block. That skill is every bit as strong as Cleansing Ritual - situationally MUCH stronger. When it actually works, Cloak is the strongest defensive skill in the game by a wide margin.

I really like the spam penalty on streak and roll and would like to see it added to more abilities as named above.

LordSlif · October 2017

Solariken wrote: »

The base cost increase to Cleansing Ritual is a very lazy change. I totally understand why they think it needs adjusted - the skill is VERY strong.

Increasing base cost is just a kick in the nuts to Stamplars, most of whom can only cast it 3 times consecutively already while it is only a very minor nerf to magplar.

Why not instead REDUCE the base cost as compared to live and give it the 4-second cost scaling penalty (edit: like Streak, Dodge roll). THAT is how you promote strategic use.

While you're at it, do the same for Cloak and Reflective Scale. Warden doesn't really have a signature move like the 4 vanilla classes but Wardens need a few gentle survivability nerfs too IMO.

Skills can put 4 negative effects on u and they will not have their cost increased

Altyrann · October 2017

For clarity, this post relates to Magicka DD PvE, played in decent, but not absolutely 100% optimised groups. I will leave discussion of stamina and PvP to those who know it better.

Having played a Magplar main for a long while, these patch notes just don't seem to address the fundamentals which are making it harder and harder to compete for a DD place. Pre-Morrowind, Magplar was in a good place, largely because our main spammable, Puncturing Sweeps (plus related Burning Light procs), was very powerful and could be used heavily until the execute phase, where we had Radiant Oppression as a powerful execute to finish a fight from ~30%. Since then, we have been hit by a number of changes:

Sustain changes limiting the use of spammables, hitting Magplar harder than most as Sweeps was such a strong part of our toolkit (also heavily impacting survivability as you now do far less self-healing as a result)
Percentage modifier changes impacting both Sweeps and Radiant heavily
Radiant Oppression damage reduction (pre-MW but the impact is being felt now)

On the other hand, we are missing the strong DoTs that make the new DoT + heavy style of play work. Vampire's Bane, a single target DoT, does substantially less damage than Liquid Lightning, an AoE DoT with a shorter duration. Blazing Spear is workable when considering Burning Light, but that has a cooldown which makes it less effective in AoE and when using Sweeps during the DoT duration of Spear. Purifying Light, while working reasonably well in dummy situations, doesn't scale with SD or crit/crit damage, meaning it becomes significantly less comparatively powerful in a trial situation. Ritual of Repentance is just not worth using outside AoE.

We also miss the vast range of weapon/guild DoTs available to Stamina classes. While most Stamina classes can take Caltrops, Trap, Hail and Poison Injection, we, along with other Magicka DD setups, have one genuinely strong skill in Blockade and one very weak DoT in Clench.

If Magplar is to become a truly competitive option for DD again, I think that we need either a reworking of sustain to allow more casts of Sweeps, or a fundamental review of core class DoTs to allow a DoT + heavy type rotation to do more damage. In either case, Sweeps and Radiant need to be reviewed given percentage modifier interactions, as Gilliam has highlighted.

For the class to retain a character different from others and keep the sense of a melee brawler which can heal through some tight spots while damaging, fixing Sweeps and Empower and allowing more Sweeps casts per rotation would be my preferred option. This could be done by playing with costs across the board or even by doing something specific like "The fourth strike of Sweeps reduces the cost of the next Puncturing Sweeps by 100%. This effect can occur every 5 seconds." I would far rather this type of solution, as for me the character / playstyle of a class matters as much as competitive DPS.