Bounty hunter..let's make it happen

wenchmore420b14_ESO · October 2017

After just scanning the responses to the OP, it has been stated that NO, this will not happen. Period.
This is not a new subject by far, and here is the long & short of the subject on why it won't happen.

In July 2014, ZoS previewed the Justice System at QuakeCon. At that time they DID say that PvP Style Bounty System would be a part of the Justice System.
But, in the months up to the Feb 2015 UD6 release, the devs and designers found in play testing this that there was way too much opportunity to grief and harass players and ZoS decided it was best to keep PvP contained to Cyrodiil only, and removed all Bounty Hunter aspects from the justice system.. ( I think, but not sure, ESO-Live episodes or Road Ahead segments in fall 2014 had a official statements).

So, yes it was considered and marked off as a NO by ZoS..
No more to say........

Slick_007 · October 2017

SFDB wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Hey why should PVP be limited to Cyrodiil alone why not have it everywhere so anyone can kill anyone. What you are suggesting is basically something like that. If someone doesn't want to PVP they shouldn't have to. That is ZOS' stance on this.

Swtor had a flagging system that worked quite well.

No it didn't, players frequently used exploits and manipulating the system to make players flag themselves when they didn't want to. You'd see it all the time, level 50s chasing around lowbies trying to get them to accidentally flag themselves so they could get the easy kill. That's why Bioware had to abandon the system and have separate PVP and PVE instances. ESO could certainly do THAT if they liked.

when did that change in swtor?

Thannazzar · October 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I mean ZOS should really level up the RNG on stealing a bit, then make a world skill tree / quest to allow players hunt down high bounty players.
Bloodbathing in all cities is unacceptable!

This enables some more interaction between players, more semi-RPG factors and surely will make goldcoast and hew's bane more interesting.

As for those who say "I don't want to pvp in non-cyrodii blablabla..."
Since when do criminals get to choose their punishment???? If you don't want to face justice then stop murdering citizens and stealing others' babies!!
Crime should be set to high reward and high risk, and atm tho guards are immortal but they are too stupid, player hunter is the only option to achieve that.

PS: The reason I mention semi-RPG factors is because, well if you check youtube then all you find about eso is something from Deltia half year ago or some build/ trial run with 3k max views. (maybe except Kevduit...god he tries real hard to make ESO videos look funny, appretiate this man). ESO currently just don't have that much players interactions and other things to make its videos look fun. <-This is all side note tho, but the primary discussion

Ok just s a few bits...

On the italics parts, first, bloodbathing in cities is more myth than reality. Its more likely to be bloodbathing in villages where there are no guards. guards may be easily avoided but having to do so slows down the pace of bloodbathing so it is just not worth it to do so in cities.

Also, i know maybe you think you are the first to come up with this non-detailed idea but search on pvp justice for tons of threads with much more detailed discussions and systems and so on.

As for the bold... you seem to be responding to a player point with a character point and makes me wonder if you firmly understand the PLAYER by playing PVE injustice content and getting a bounty is not himself a criminal? Thats they ke, as far as the game is concerned, playing PVE injustice content is a full fledged part of the game folks can choose to enjoy. that itself is not s crime with its own sub-system of punishments and two full DLC and skill lines .

So, just because you want to wrap your desire to jump PVE players doing PVE combat in PVE zones in "they are criminals" thats not correct because your request for the ability to PVP players who choose not to engage in PVP is not supported by the fact that they are playing PVE content and that makes them bad people.

lastly, also in the bold, players running characters thru PVE injustice play *do* face justice in the form of PVE guards, PVE bounties etc if they play it in a way that gets them caught. Is that a very difficult justice? Nope - just like all the other PVE casual gameplay it is easy for someone skills and who has planned it out.

There is no justification for taking that one section of PVE gameplay and raising it to some higher threshold of difficulty compared to the others. all that would do is tend to drive folks away from it at the early levels and that means not as many in it at the later levels - even if it were just PVE risk.

If you want to add an injustice sub-system to Cyrodil, where PVP players can steal from their alliance and get bounties etc and be huntable from their own people - sure.

If you want to talk about adding new PVE injustice content on higher diffifulcty without PVP play-in tagged on PVE activities - sure. i always support the addition of more PVE content especially at higher levels.

If you want a PVE justice set of content added where players run PCs through law-and-order quests with repeatables and so forth, all PVE, akin to the law DLC counterpart to TG or Db - sure.

But the renewed refrain of let me go PVP on PVE players" is done and done and done and not going to be done in the game based on past experience and decisions by the devs.

Agreed. A PVP bounty system is unworkable. The current unkillable guards are suficient justice enough.

However a PVE bounty hunter expansion with daily missions similar to dark brotherhood would be a good alternative for those who don't want to steal or murder to make money.

Question locals to establish where the felon is hiding. Locate them in the city then chase them down and subdue them with a passive skill line and cuff/net animation attack at 20% health.

STEVIL · October 2017

SFDB wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

Hmm well I played swtor for over a year with both imps and pubs and never had an issue. Even with going into outlaws den for hk parts or doing the bounty missions. I haven't played it in a long time though so I'm not sure about them changing the servers. Perhaps like a lot of things the problem was overblown on the forums.

No, I personally witnessed it about once a month over the course of years, I have video of someone waiting ten minutes for me to attack so they could flag and kill me. Bioware went with instanced PVP because they could never find a fix that couldn't be exploited.

Osteos wrote: »

Also a lot of pve players against this fail to realize that most pvp players want good fights and that the really good pvp nbs would more than likely be the criminals in a pvp justice system and pvers wouldn't stand a chance in hell of catching or killing them. The bounty hunter system would be for the pvpers that were interesting in playing that way. You guys would be chump change

@emilyhyoyeon I would say a high bounty would be in the 5-10k range.

That's a repeated theory. In practice, some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do. Again, Bioware rebuilt their PVP system because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, ESO canceled this change because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, any idea must first begin by acknowledging these players exist and seeing how it will effect the game.

Exactly. Also, while @Osteos is certainly invited to prove me wrong, my bet is the word "most" there is just imagination. maybe there is data that says 50.0001% of PVP player fit that mold, but from what i have seen so far it is not oft cited and so the word "some" or at best "many" would be accurate.

STEVIL · October 2017

Thannazzar wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I mean ZOS should really level up the RNG on stealing a bit, then make a world skill tree / quest to allow players hunt down high bounty players.
Bloodbathing in all cities is unacceptable!

This enables some more interaction between players, more semi-RPG factors and surely will make goldcoast and hew's bane more interesting.

As for those who say "I don't want to pvp in non-cyrodii blablabla..."
Since when do criminals get to choose their punishment???? If you don't want to face justice then stop murdering citizens and stealing others' babies!!
Crime should be set to high reward and high risk, and atm tho guards are immortal but they are too stupid, player hunter is the only option to achieve that.

PS: The reason I mention semi-RPG factors is because, well if you check youtube then all you find about eso is something from Deltia half year ago or some build/ trial run with 3k max views. (maybe except Kevduit...god he tries real hard to make ESO videos look funny, appretiate this man). ESO currently just don't have that much players interactions and other things to make its videos look fun. <-This is all side note tho, but the primary discussion

Ok just s a few bits...

On the italics parts, first, bloodbathing in cities is more myth than reality. Its more likely to be bloodbathing in villages where there are no guards. guards may be easily avoided but having to do so slows down the pace of bloodbathing so it is just not worth it to do so in cities.

Also, i know maybe you think you are the first to come up with this non-detailed idea but search on pvp justice for tons of threads with much more detailed discussions and systems and so on.

As for the bold... you seem to be responding to a player point with a character point and makes me wonder if you firmly understand the PLAYER by playing PVE injustice content and getting a bounty is not himself a criminal? Thats they ke, as far as the game is concerned, playing PVE injustice content is a full fledged part of the game folks can choose to enjoy. that itself is not s crime with its own sub-system of punishments and two full DLC and skill lines .

So, just because you want to wrap your desire to jump PVE players doing PVE combat in PVE zones in "they are criminals" thats not correct because your request for the ability to PVP players who choose not to engage in PVP is not supported by the fact that they are playing PVE content and that makes them bad people.

lastly, also in the bold, players running characters thru PVE injustice play *do* face justice in the form of PVE guards, PVE bounties etc if they play it in a way that gets them caught. Is that a very difficult justice? Nope - just like all the other PVE casual gameplay it is easy for someone skills and who has planned it out.

There is no justification for taking that one section of PVE gameplay and raising it to some higher threshold of difficulty compared to the others. all that would do is tend to drive folks away from it at the early levels and that means not as many in it at the later levels - even if it were just PVE risk.

If you want to add an injustice sub-system to Cyrodil, where PVP players can steal from their alliance and get bounties etc and be huntable from their own people - sure.

If you want to talk about adding new PVE injustice content on higher diffifulcty without PVP play-in tagged on PVE activities - sure. i always support the addition of more PVE content especially at higher levels.

If you want a PVE justice set of content added where players run PCs through law-and-order quests with repeatables and so forth, all PVE, akin to the law DLC counterpart to TG or Db - sure.

But the renewed refrain of let me go PVP on PVE players" is done and done and done and not going to be done in the game based on past experience and decisions by the devs.

Agreed. A PVP bounty system is unworkable. The current unkillable guards are suficient justice enough.

However a PVE bounty hunter expansion with daily missions similar to dark brotherhood would be a good alternative for those who don't want to steal or murder to make money.

Question locals to establish where the felon is hiding. Locate them in the city then chase them down and subdue them with a passive skill line and cuff/net animation attack at 20% health.

Exactly. on some of the more robust threads which took on the chore of digging into details instead of pie-in-the-sky "but we will fix that too" half-thought-out whimsies, there were a good deal of discussion on that.

I suggested a full DLC with the theme being fighting back against an expanding crime syndicate. Addin "world bosses" for busting up big "dens", delves dailies for recovery/rescue and ongoing daily quests for both "catch the outlaw" and for "caravan escort" with staged resolution like the tip boards have now. Gives you the possibility for a DLC worth of content with plenty of world-wide re-use.

Could even add in there some harder mode PVE content too.

Fully in support of this.

Osteos · October 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

Hmm well I played swtor for over a year with both imps and pubs and never had an issue. Even with going into outlaws den for hk parts or doing the bounty missions. I haven't played it in a long time though so I'm not sure about them changing the servers. Perhaps like a lot of things the problem was overblown on the forums.

No, I personally witnessed it about once a month over the course of years, I have video of someone waiting ten minutes for me to attack so they could flag and kill me. Bioware went with instanced PVP because they could never find a fix that couldn't be exploited.

Osteos wrote: »

Also a lot of pve players against this fail to realize that most pvp players want good fights and that the really good pvp nbs would more than likely be the criminals in a pvp justice system and pvers wouldn't stand a chance in hell of catching or killing them. The bounty hunter system would be for the pvpers that were interesting in playing that way. You guys would be chump change

@emilyhyoyeon I would say a high bounty would be in the 5-10k range.

That's a repeated theory. In practice, some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do. Again, Bioware rebuilt their PVP system because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, ESO canceled this change because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, any idea must first begin by acknowledging these players exist and seeing how it will effect the game.

Exactly. Also, while @Osteos is certainly invited to prove me wrong, my bet is the word "most" there is just imagination. maybe there is data that says 50.0001% of PVP player fit that mold, but from what i have seen so far it is not oft cited and so the word "some" or at best "many" would be accurate.

You are, what people in my field call, an Armchair Anthropologist. You sit at your desk spouting your biased and bigoted opinion about another group of people without ever having actually been to their country or associated with any of the people from their culture. I'm an actual pvp player who associates with other pvp players daily. From those that like to run solo or small group all the way to zerg surfers and organized groups. But by all means sit on your soap box and tell me how we really are..

notimetocare · October 2017

Oh look, another thread that doesnt seem to die. Not happening.
1. They implement it without an opt-out and it becomes a trollfest. Fully geared players camping low gear/level players because lol eazy
2. They implement it with an opt-out and nobody with half a brain opts in and it stays as it is now, but with invested dev time that ammounts to null
3. They dont implement it and the majority stays happy and dev time is spent elsewhere on content most people participate in.

I like #3, as most seem to as well

STEVIL · October 2017

Osteos wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

Hmm well I played swtor for over a year with both imps and pubs and never had an issue. Even with going into outlaws den for hk parts or doing the bounty missions. I haven't played it in a long time though so I'm not sure about them changing the servers. Perhaps like a lot of things the problem was overblown on the forums.

No, I personally witnessed it about once a month over the course of years, I have video of someone waiting ten minutes for me to attack so they could flag and kill me. Bioware went with instanced PVP because they could never find a fix that couldn't be exploited.

Osteos wrote: »

Also a lot of pve players against this fail to realize that most pvp players want good fights and that the really good pvp nbs would more than likely be the criminals in a pvp justice system and pvers wouldn't stand a chance in hell of catching or killing them. The bounty hunter system would be for the pvpers that were interesting in playing that way. You guys would be chump change

@emilyhyoyeon I would say a high bounty would be in the 5-10k range.

That's a repeated theory. In practice, some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do. Again, Bioware rebuilt their PVP system because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, ESO canceled this change because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, any idea must first begin by acknowledging these players exist and seeing how it will effect the game.

Exactly. Also, while @Osteos is certainly invited to prove me wrong, my bet is the word "most" there is just imagination. maybe there is data that says 50.0001% of PVP player fit that mold, but from what i have seen so far it is not oft cited and so the word "some" or at best "many" would be accurate.

You are, what people in my field call, an Armchair Anthropologist. You sit at your desk spouting your biased and bigoted opinion about another group of people without ever having actually been to their country or associated with any of the people from their culture. I'm an actual pvp player who associates with other pvp players daily. From those that like to run solo or small group all the way to zerg surfers and organized groups. But by all means sit on your soap box and tell me how we really are..

Hilarious... so are you actually claiming to have ever met or discussed this issued with "most" of the people who have played PVP in ESO?

Last time i saw a number it was like 7 million accounts for ESO. maybe its more now.

if 10% of them player PVP thats 700000.
If you have had a sentence with 10% of them, thats 70,000.
If all of them agree with what you ascribed to them, thats still way fewer than "most".

You chatted on this subject with 70,000 ESO PVP players directly? if so, thats "some".

I am not commenting on this group or that group... i am commenting on the hubris of anyone on the internet claiming to know what "most" of any large group of internet folks think.

That is almost always a sign of someone mistaking "most of the folks i have met" with "most of the folks there are." its a classic "error in scale" on the order of having your entire invasion fleet swallowed by a small dog.

Which is hilarious when they then get their hackles up over that point.

While you may be focused on my armchairs, at least my armchairs have a better idea of the scale of these things as they compare to "what i have seen" than some folks seem to.

Hilarious.

And i have to wonder what was so bigoted about saying "many" or "some" was more accurate than "most"?

Jeremy · October 2017

Osteos wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

Hmm well I played swtor for over a year with both imps and pubs and never had an issue. Even with going into outlaws den for hk parts or doing the bounty missions. I haven't played it in a long time though so I'm not sure about them changing the servers. Perhaps like a lot of things the problem was overblown on the forums.

No, I personally witnessed it about once a month over the course of years, I have video of someone waiting ten minutes for me to attack so they could flag and kill me. Bioware went with instanced PVP because they could never find a fix that couldn't be exploited.

Osteos wrote: »

Also a lot of pve players against this fail to realize that most pvp players want good fights and that the really good pvp nbs would more than likely be the criminals in a pvp justice system and pvers wouldn't stand a chance in hell of catching or killing them. The bounty hunter system would be for the pvpers that were interesting in playing that way. You guys would be chump change

@emilyhyoyeon I would say a high bounty would be in the 5-10k range.

That's a repeated theory. In practice, some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do. Again, Bioware rebuilt their PVP system because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, ESO canceled this change because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, any idea must first begin by acknowledging these players exist and seeing how it will effect the game.

Exactly. Also, while @Osteos is certainly invited to prove me wrong, my bet is the word "most" there is just imagination. maybe there is data that says 50.0001% of PVP player fit that mold, but from what i have seen so far it is not oft cited and so the word "some" or at best "many" would be accurate.

You are, what people in my field call, an Armchair Anthropologist. You sit at your desk spouting your biased and bigoted opinion about another group of people without ever having actually been to their country or associated with any of the people from their culture. I'm an actual pvp player who associates with other pvp players daily. From those that like to run solo or small group all the way to zerg surfers and organized groups. But by all means sit on your soap box and tell me how we really are..

Pvpers generally do not care about fair play. I know that and you know that.

They love to outnumber and swarm their opponents. This is true on every single MMORPG I have ever played.

Sure, there are exceptions to every rule. But most PvPers are going to make use of every advantage at their disposal.

The suggestion of this thread sounds cool in theory. But in practice it would not be anything like bounty hunting. It would be slaughter - with gangs of so-called bounty hunters waiting inside every bank or camped out at every daily quest giver to kill any player foolish enough to go near it with a bounty.

In short: it would end up being very stupid

Kamatsu · October 2017

SFDB wrote: »

That's a repeated theory. In practice, some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do. Again, Bioware rebuilt their PVP system because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, ESO canceled this change because they couldn't stop these kinds of players, any idea must first begin by acknowledging these players exist and seeing how it will effect the game.

I would say a classic example of the popularity of 'bottom-feeding Open World PvP' is WoW's PvP server's. In most cases when PvP happened, it was usually always either a higher level player ganking a lower level player in a low level questing zone, or it was a group of 3+ similar level people ganging up on 1 player who was questing/traveling alone. And virtually every time afterwards they would leave the area as soon as anyone from the other side that could fight them showed up (since the person who got ganked usually called for help from their guild, zone chat, etc and ppl would come to help).

It was extremely rare to ever find people willing to PvP people of similar level (in lower level zones atr least - such as level 40 or under), and thus would have a reasonable chance of losing to them. Not to say it didn't happen, but it was definitely the minority of cases (again, in the lower level zones... higher up there was more 1v1 PvP, but also more 3-4+ vs 1 ganking).

Also, you need to look at the zones where most of the 'PvP wars" happened - these were area's known to have guilds and groups of high level players go and gank ppl questing there, kill off the NPC guards and any killable NPC's they could. The regions were: Goldshire in Elwynn Forest (level 1-10), Crossroads in The Barrens (level 10-20), Southshore/Tarrel-Mill in Hillsbrad Foothills (level 20-25). These 3 area's were usually the most 'active' zones for PvP, at least till Burning Crusade, which then added Hellfire Peninsula (level 58-63) as it was a shared starter zone into the expansion, so lots of easy kills as people started the expansion. Same happened in each expansion, the starter zones or earliest 'shared' zone became the PvP ganker zone, because they got easy kills.

So if we look at the history from WoW open world PvP... the majority of people who wanted, and did, open-world PvP were bottom feeders who didn'tr want a fair fight... all they wanted was a easy kill. Why else did they constantly target lower level players? Why did they always focus their PvP raids on low-level zones? Why else did they run whenever faces with similar level toons, in similar numbers as them, willing to PvP them back?

And before anyone ask's - I leveled multiple toons on both PvP and PvE realms in WoW. So I've seen it 1st hand. Game was always tense in the 1-40 zones, and then less tense in the 40-50 zones, and fine in the 50-60 zones on PvP realms. Why? Because while PvP did happen in the 40+ level zones, it was usually against 1 similar level player... rather than being gank killed by higher level toons or gangs of toons.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2017

Pretty sure you could just go to Cyrodil and Imperial City

Runschei · October 2017

Uh no thank you.

I like my pvp in Cyrodiil, and I prefer to be undisturbed while making my gold by stealing in Wayrest. I see the 140 item cap as enough punishment. Besides, why does my 40K income from stealing concern YOU?

Maryal · October 2017

SFDB wrote: »

...some PVPers are bottom-feeders who will take every opportunity to go for the easiest kill they can. You can't design a system assuming the ideal player, you have to design it assuming people are jerks that will try to abuse it, because that's what people do.

Sadly, one need only venture to IC sewers to experience this.

Aimora · October 2017

No thank you!

LadyLavina · October 2017

Unfortunately OP this idea has been killed by the devs themselves lol. Probably not gonna happen, though they've gone back on their word before.

"Available for a limited time only!"

-re releases same item later on through a different venue like crown crate rewards-

Minyassa · October 2017

Punishing players for using DLC that they purchased is not a great way to sell that DLC. If they did something like this, it would effectively make Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood completely off limits to people who hate PvP, which means the game would lose money from those people. I don't think there are so few of us that they would blow off our dollars just to add more PvP to a game that already has entire PvP zones and DLC packs.

leetacakesb16_ESO · October 2017

Kamatsu wrote:

And before anyone ask's - I leveled multiple toons on both PvP and PvE realms in WoW. So I've seen it 1st hand. Game was always tense in the 1-40 zones, and then less tense in the 40-50 zones, and fine in the 50-60 zones on PvP realms. Why? Because while PvP did happen in the 40+ level zones, it was usually against 1 similar level player... rather than being gank killed by higher level toons or gangs of toons.

I must of been lucky because I was never ganked on WoWs pvp server.

Maybe make bounty quests available only in Cyrodiil instead? Kill a player with a large bounty for extra alliance points? Maybe not actually....

STEVIL · October 2017

leetacakesb16_ESO wrote: »

Kamatsu wrote:

And before anyone ask's - I leveled multiple toons on both PvP and PvE realms in WoW. So I've seen it 1st hand. Game was always tense in the 1-40 zones, and then less tense in the 40-50 zones, and fine in the 50-60 zones on PvP realms. Why? Because while PvP did happen in the 40+ level zones, it was usually against 1 similar level player... rather than being gank killed by higher level toons or gangs of toons.

I must of been lucky because I was never ganked on WoWs pvp server.

Maybe make bounty quests available only in Cyrodiil instead? Kill a player with a large bounty for extra alliance points? Maybe not actually....

Or, since i have seen commented from some about PVP and gold drops issues - maybe the idea could be that in cyrodil you steal from your alliance and fence for gold OR if you see someone with bounty from cyrodil looting of your alliance you kill them and get reward in gold. Ap points are for war related efforts not so much internal issues... that kind of thing.

Whole thing adds an infusion of gold into cryodil, adds the hunt and seek content.

if they also made bounty not fase from cyrodil actions unless you are inside cyrodil that could give you choice between heading out into open areas and risking hit by anybody or staying in safer places but more easily findable by bounty hunters.

there are a lot of options for cyrodil to get justice... its not like there wasn't crime and punishment in wartime... but of course this means all your PVP bounty hunting will be against PVP players ready for it and not PVE players.... so that may not satisfy the rare, few, nigh-on mythical (or so some would have use believe) PVPers who want to have the system so that they can mess with PVE players in PVE activity instead of those interested in more "fair" and "honorable" PVP competitive contests between prepared competitors.