Most Tanks Cannot tanking

Jeremy · October 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When I play tank I just don't let aggressive DPS stress me. If they want to rush up ahead and aggro a pack of mobs they can have at it.

Sometimes they can handle themselves - sometimes they go splat. Either way - I don't allow it to affect me.

Rule #1: You aggro it, you tank it. I will sit back and watch everyone die if they run ahead. If they really don't need a tank, I drop.

I'll still run up and do my part and try to soak up as much damage as possible (which is what I see the role of a tank to be on large trash pulls. I'm not a Dragon Knight and don't have talons).

But I'm not going stress it and try to frantically save an overly aggressively player. Because I cannot instantly pull 10 mobs off a single player who charged headstrong into a large group of enemies... nor am I going to feel responsible for it if he or she dies because of it.

Yeah, no, so tired of the DPS sprinting ahead and I only catch up at the last boss, don't get any XP or loot that way. End game tank builds don't have stam regen so no, I'm not going to waste all of my stam sprinting when people obviously don't care if the tank is there or not.

If you don't need a tank, don't queue for one.

I didn't know you were talking about a situation where they run all the way to the boss.

What I would do in a situation like that is just engage the first group of enemies I come across and play as I usually would. Any DPS who wants to run all the way to the boss does so at their own risk.

So I agree with you there. I wouldn't chase after them either.

DMuehlhausen · October 2017

A lot of people also hit tank to get a queue faster.

That being said this game isn't designed like other MMOs. Tanks aren't suppose to hold aggro on all the mobs in the group pulls. You should be killing stuff in the right order. Can a tank grab a few of them yes, but it's impossible to taunt and hold all mobs in a group sometimes.

A lot of bosses also can't be taunted. I would say though too that DPS needs to watch themselves. You get a lot of DDs that just goes balls out on the dps and pull aggro. So while the tank is doing everything they can the DD are not doing their job properly.

Amadis001 · October 2017

strebor2095 wrote: »

So, from what I understood in your post

Finally, the tanks main job is basically just a crowd control machine. They stop the big dudes from running off and smacking you up, then they focus on interrupting healing mobs, and LOS/chaining them into a group. Next, they focus on group buffs and enemy debuffs - seen through excellent sets like Ebon Armory (glowing red orbs that give your team extra health!), Igneous Shields to make your healers job easier, and then lowering the resistances of enemies so the DPS can kill 'em quicker.

I agree with everything you wrote; I just want to add "immobilization". Choking Talons is my main focus when I tank a large group of adds. It immobilizes and debuffs them, making it safe for DPS to move it and wipe them out. I can keep Chokes up all day.

Porter_H · October 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

There are no AoE taunts I have to go around and taunt each individual member of a mob.
As a magicka tank I just don't have the stamina to spare.

You as the DPS have to quickly kill the adds because I have the main boss to focus on.
Trash mobs just don't do enough damage to threaten you if you have a sensible amount of hp and 1 defensive skill.

On the Warden I'm leveling (lvl 35) I have to spend half of my stamina catching up to the dps running ahead of me for trash pulls. I don't have enough left to taunt 4+ mobs. I would love an AoE taunt. I'm using Gripping Shards to hold melee in place for a few seconds and then running around and taunting the casters. Almost to level 3 with Undaunted but I hate having to use 2 bar spaces for taunts.

Kali_Despoine · October 2017

Tanking oh what fun.

I love tanking. I push the groups limit every time I run random dungeon finder.
I tank w/ a DK and a Sorc. I made a Nightblade but just never went anywhere with it.

First rule of Tanking.
Be the one to make the first strike and make sure it's an AoE.
This will grant you aggro. No it's not a taunt but it will stop the mob in there tracks and focus on you.
Then pick your targets carefully. As stated get the heavy hitters first then work your way to the ranged.

Second rule of Tanking
Know your Boss. What he does and the tells he gives.

Third rule of Tanking
Know how to pull ranged. If you don't have a pull learn how to kite them into a group. Even ranged will chase you down.
Think of the Twin Sisters (Harvester Sub-Boss) in BC2. There is a way to group them up so your not fighting them one at a time. No you can't pull them but you can get one to move next to the other if you know what your doing.

Rule four
Know where to pull to. Make it easy for your group and your self by finding sweet spots in the dungeons to pull the adds and Bosses to.

Rule five
Get those heavy attacks in. Know when to hit them and when to block so your not flying across the floor all the time. Tanking is not 100% taunt then block.

Rule six (I call this the A-hole rule)
Kick that PvP sorc w/ the clanfear out of your group. He will only make your job harder.

and last is another of the above rules
If a DPS is using an Ice staff just sit back and watch him die then start tanking again.

PlagueSD · October 2017

Iselin wrote: »

Those are easy to spot: they usually have 1HD + shield on both bars and 35K+ health. Appreciate it when you get a good one because it's a rare occurrence especially in normal dungeon PUGs.

I beg to differ. The REALLY good tanks will know when to swap S&B for frost staff for those fights where range tanking is preferred. (Lord Warden in ICP, Vila Theran in FG2, and The Planar Inhibitor in WGT)

PlagueSD · October 2017

Porter_H wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

There are no AoE taunts I have to go around and taunt each individual member of a mob.
As a magicka tank I just don't have the stamina to spare.

You as the DPS have to quickly kill the adds because I have the main boss to focus on.
Trash mobs just don't do enough damage to threaten you if you have a sensible amount of hp and 1 defensive skill.

On the Warden I'm leveling (lvl 35) I have to spend half of my stamina catching up to the dps running ahead of me for trash pulls. I don't have enough left to taunt 4+ mobs. I would love an AoE taunt. I'm using Gripping Shards to hold melee in place for a few seconds and then running around and taunting the casters. Almost to level 3 with Undaunted but I hate having to use 2 bar spaces for taunts.

If you don't have DK chains or Warden portal, you should be pulling everything to the casters, not the other way. You can position melee pretty easily...Not so with casters - unless your group is coordinated enough to do what's called an LOS pull.

And yes, I hate "DPS in a rush" You run off on me, you're on your own.

paulsimonps · October 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Those are easy to spot: they usually have 1HD + shield on both bars and 35K+ health. Appreciate it when you get a good one because it's a rare occurrence especially in normal dungeon PUGs.

I beg to differ. The REALLY good tanks will know when to swap S&B for frost staff for those fights where range tanking is preferred. (Lord Warden in ICP, Vila Theran in FG2, and The Planar Inhibitor in WGT)

I will never ever ever ever ever ever run a Frost staff..... Undaunted taunt FTW, its all you need for ranged taunt.

Also Vila Theran in vFG2, there is a way to do melee on that fight. Taunt her, LOS her to where you want to stand. Run to the entrance after the initial taunt and after she does her 3 teleports you run to the tunnel, puts her where the DPS and healer is every time and you can debuff her and melee her. Using only range on her was so 2014

D0PAMINE · October 2017

I dont care what the tank does as long as we dont wipe, and everyone learns from their mistakes. Im usually close to the tanks anyway incase they need to switchout or need to be rezzed. I just try to have fun, but I can understand frustration, esspecially HM no death speed runs etc/

PlagueSD · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Those are easy to spot: they usually have 1HD + shield on both bars and 35K+ health. Appreciate it when you get a good one because it's a rare occurrence especially in normal dungeon PUGs.

I beg to differ. The REALLY good tanks will know when to swap S&B for frost staff for those fights where range tanking is preferred. (Lord Warden in ICP, Vila Theran in FG2, and The Planar Inhibitor in WGT)

I will never ever ever ever ever ever run a Frost staff..... Undaunted taunt FTW, its all you need for ranged taunt.

Also Vila Theran in vFG2, there is a way to do melee on that fight. Taunt her, LOS her to where you want to stand. Run to the entrance after the initial taunt and after she does her 3 teleports you run to the tunnel, puts her where the DPS and healer is every time and you can debuff her and melee her. Using only range on her was so 2014

Well, my tanking experience is limited to just normal dungeons right now since I'm only level 32. I've been running S&B front bar and frost staff w/defending trait (to make up for lack of a shield) on back bar. So far I've had no issues. For boss fights where mobility is needed, I use frost staff so blocking uses magica. This leaves my stam pool available for roll dodge and break free. For fights where I can turtle down and don't need to move, then yes, S&B is used. Maybe this will change when I start doing Vet level content. Right now, I'm still learning the basics.

newtinmpls · October 2017

Best education I ever got tanking was with 3 friends and a random tank doing ....oh heck it was one of the Argonian DLC dungeons, can't recall which one. We were new to it. The tank was experienced, and scary good. He would pause before each fight, tell us where to be, where to cast, he would bring the mobs to the point he indicated, and we would mow them down.

He was amazing at teaching us how to work with a tank, and we were able to be better players after that experience.

KrazyKooter · October 2017

To the point of the OP I will say that I've seen a rash of tank problems lately as well. It's a symptom of what I call "N00b-itis" which is a by-product of the Morrowind release. (One of many recent examples:)I queued up to heal for a Vet dungeon the other day and the tank who showed up was around CP130, had never heard of a taunt, and didn't know that he was doing. I asked him if he had intentionally queued for a Vet dungeon trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and he said that he "had to do it for Undaunted". (Basically someone told him that's how you get 2 keys)

As for the state of playing the tank role in ESO, I'll say that it's just plain boring. And I don't mean "boring" in the sense of not having something to do. I spend my time constantly watching everyone else's back, using CC, Pierce Armor, Inner Fire, etc, etc... but that doesn't mean that I'm having fun doing it. I know I'm not alone in having no excitement for tanking as I will get invites to come tank dungeons for several friends because none of them have a tank or any interest in starting one.

I was curious about the play time of my toons last week so I made myself a list BUT I think it tells story as to just how boring it is to play my tank.....

Time Played: (using /played command)

StamBlade: 56 Days
MagSorc: 21 Days
MagPlar: 14 Days
MagWarden: 6 Days
StamDK(TANK): 5 Days

And.........after typing this out I'm starting to think I need to get out of the house more.....

Stovahkiin · October 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

There are no AoE taunts I have to go around and taunt each individual member of a mob.
As a magicka tank I just don't have the stamina to spare.

You as the DPS have to quickly kill the adds because I have the main boss to focus on.
Trash mobs just don't do enough damage to threaten you if you have a sensible amount of hp and 1 defensive skill.

This. I feel like most of the players who complain about people who don't know how to tank.. don't know how tanking works.

raj72616a · October 2017

my first character is a stamplar and the first dungeon role i chose to take was tank, and i still tank.

i used to think some PUG healers were terrible for not healing me when i was taunting and holding the boss, then later on i went get Vigor and stack the heal with Blood Craze (or Rally) and Extended Ritual, and levelled Remembrance to prepare for the worst.

i used to think many PUG dps were terrible and made certain boss fights impossible due to the low damage, then later on i farmed a VO set and crafted a hunding's rage set to prepare for the groups in which i have to act as a third dps.

when i tried the healer role, i found that many groups have terrible damage, and that was probably why some healers had to focus on dealing damage and neglect to babysit my health bar.

when i tried the dps role.. well the queue is too long so i can't really play as dps lol

anyway even if you are not tank, blocking heavy attack from trash mobs, interrupting trash mobs' channeled attack, you could still do those things. stay away from red, roll dodge if need be, have some sort of self heal or damage shield to protect yourself, then you shouldn't die to trash pulls even when the tank is afk.
i once had a guild group that we mistakenly formed with 3 healers for vet banished cell 1, we finished it just fine, with one of us equipping a frost staff on off-bar and spamming Harness Magicka to pretend to be a tank.
and when i'm on my tank and occasionally i made a mistake and die in boss fight, many groups are good enough to hold for a while and rez me (it's not uncommon to meet a PUG that have low dps number, but know abt the dungeon mechanics and manage to survive quite well)

Thunderknuckles · October 2017

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Most posters cannot posting

Jokes aside, this is a side effect of using grouping tool, better run with friends that you know are good, or with a guild where you know that people play well.....

Edit: Typos

I agree that grouping with friends or guildies is a better idea. Personally, I haven't had too many problems with pugs in ESO (remarkable, I know). Last night, though, we got into an ICP norm and the healer had ended up q'ing both dps and heals. He mostly DPS'ed. The tank, a guildy, is very solid and we managed to mostly dps our way to the Lord Warden, where things fell apart. Very limited heals meant we wiped about 5 times, when the healer and the other dps (who spent much of the dungeon KO'd) finally just left the group. We called in a friend and let dungeon finder bring us a healer. We took the boss out right away.

ArchMikem · October 2017

TheValar85 wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Most posters cannot posting

Jokes aside, this is a side effect of using grouping tool, better run with friends that you know are good, or with a guild where you know that people play well.

You must also remember that there are quite a few bosses that cannot be taunted or some mechanics prevent taunting.

As far a tutorial is concerned, why don't you post a few here and actually learn them yourself, this would be useful for teaching pugs that are ready to learn, provided you know what you are taking about.

Peace

Because i am not a tank kind sir? And i am not a kindergarden teacher either if you get what i mean by that. And it is not the bosees i know some of them are taunt immun and random agro, but the trash is not DUH!

Whenever a mob group is engaged they all start spreading out to attack the entire group. A lot of the time if one person attacks some mobs they'll instead start running off toward someone else. And since there's only one tank and like 10 mobs in a group, it's hard to taunt them all. The only real solution to this is for the Tank to be a DK, watch for mobs running off and use chains to pull them back.

The day ZOS adds an AoE Taunt ability is when a ton more Tanks suddenly start Tanking "better".

KraziJoe · January 2018

For me a newly lvl 50 tank and took on a Vet dungeon, by accident as I queued up in Vet by mistake, I can say that lvl 1-50 do NOT prepare you for what you experience in a Vet dungeon. It's just not the same.
In the non Vet dungeons that you run before Undaunted, it's pretty much run through and if a battle takes more than 30 seconds it's because someone pulled up their merchant to sell.
With the Vet dungeons you need to pay attention as a tank or you die pretty quickly. I never died in a non vet dungeon via a one hit. IN the Vet dungeon Cradle of Shadows, Khephidaen knocked me out for 51K because I was unfamiliar with the mechanics. After a few more fights, the group was nice to me and asked me if I would leave, I agreed because I was not ready for it.
I can pull, taunt etc, but if you don't know mechanics then being able to play your character is moot.
So, it's not always a bad tank, it's just lack of knowledge of the mechanics of the fights and the level of difficulty from normal to vet.

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

TheValar85 wrote: »

Before i got in to my point first there are some expetations in the circle of tanks who can actualy tanking. So for those base dont take it personaly because you are not one of them who can't tanking.

Now then, i have been all across Tamriel including every dungeon, trials, and so on except the 2 new ones.
But it came to atention that most of the player base who chose tanking role in veteran dungeons or even normal, they simply cant hold agro.
i dont know how long hase been this is an issue in the game, but i cant simply hold my thoughts back.

i am mostly a Damage Dealer, but i used to healing too. And no matter what role i am playing with all i see the tank charges in to the mobs group and all see they are atacing me! ME! is there a bug around the agro holding or what? This is not my first mmorpg game what i am playing with and i know dps and healers can have agro thats for sure, but BUUT agro down every piece of mobs from the tanks is just insane!

Not to mention they can't even taunt them back. How much agro time i should give to the tanks? half hp from the bosses or the mobs should be enough when i can safely healing and damage dealing or what?

This must be rethinking and re developing. tanks should pull everything together and hold them of of the ranged damage dealers and from the healers. yet the oposite happens all the god damn time.

In other cenario there is even a base where there is Zero communication with the other group members, it's like they simply cannot speak english or can't even type. (i am sorry about that i know i am not good at English grammar and spelling i am sorry but my language is not based on Latin but at least i try my best to make my self understandable) and when the whole group wipes down we are called noobs. And i see this constantly and i am ready think even if the tank is over 660 cp that level is dosent matters anymore, because he simply cant tanking. And thiese kind of players runins every god damn istances ingame.

I am not a tank but when i finaly meet a proper one who know what to do i personaly prase the gods they have been sent to us.And i even aknowledge them how good they were, but sadly those numbers are too low.

I dont know what's going on here but this is cannot stand this anymore and i have to speak up for the sake of the game. Send a every player a tanking tutorial guide in e-mail becasue those who haven't got a clue who to do it in the good way they are not going to look up any guide on the internet thats for sure, and the good tanks are just rare in these days.

Thank you for your time and effort to read my post.

PS: for the tanks who can play with their roles: i love you all guys keep up the good playing style and may the nine bells you all!

Well, yes. It is the dd job to deal with mobs. But most dd cannot dps. If you are queing as a dd and can't handle a few mobs then you probably aren't so worthy to pass judgement on other roles.

Peekachu99 · January 2018

What’s far more “annoying” than anything in the OP is watching some half-wit DPS kite a mob a million miles away from the group, out of the range of pulls or charges, so that they can die in a corner. Tank ability slots are at a premium and I’m not slotting inner fire outside of specific fights, and certainly not because someone has ants in their pants and no concept of group play.

Blackleopardex · January 2018

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Most posters cannot posting

This made my day xD

Peekachu99 · January 2018

Mauin wrote: »

I primarily tank random dungeons and frequently tank for pledges and trials. I was queuing for the Spindle II pledge last night to get a Blood Spawn helm and on my Warden tank I was pulled into a group where they had kicked their previous tank within the first two trash mobs because he or she was not holding aggro on trash. I'm sorry, but I honestly considered leaving before I could even get into the dungeon. I did stay in the end, but the entire time I wondered if they would kick me because I don't waste stamina taunting everything.

As a tank, I consider it extremely inefficient to taunt every single piece of trash in a mob. I taunt priority targets (generally ones that can do the most damage to group or otherwise cause the most problems) and try to group things up as much as possible. With a decent healer and DPS, that should be just fine. Trash is trash. If, for whatever reason, the trash mobs in dungeons are actually causing enough of a problem that the tank has to taunt everything, then either the healer isn't healing enough, or the DPS in that group need to reconsider their builds.

It’s much easier to just lock them down via talons/ dark magic (sorc tanks rather excel in 4mans)/ caltrops.

magictucktuck · January 2018

ive been tanking and i notice if someone jumps into the mob right before i do they will get most the aggroo until i manually take it. you also have to realize we can only do that one by one. usually our main concern is getting the ranged mobs pulled into the pack to get everything stacked to kill.

magictucktuck · January 2018

Mauin wrote: »

I primarily tank random dungeons and frequently tank for pledges and trials. I was queuing for the Spindle II pledge last night to get a Blood Spawn helm and on my Warden tank I was pulled into a group where they had kicked their previous tank within the first two trash mobs because he or she was not holding aggro on trash. I'm sorry, but I honestly considered leaving before I could even get into the dungeon. I did stay in the end, but the entire time I wondered if they would kick me because I don't waste stamina taunting everything.

As a tank, I consider it extremely inefficient to taunt every single piece of trash in a mob. I taunt priority targets (generally ones that can do the most damage to group or otherwise cause the most problems) and try to group things up as much as possible. With a decent healer and DPS, that should be just fine. Trash is trash. If, for whatever reason, the trash mobs in dungeons are actually causing enough of a problem that the tank has to taunt everything, then either the healer isn't healing enough, or the DPS in that group need to reconsider their builds.

I 100 percent agree. besides the last couple months of tanking i have been a dps since the game came out on console and i have always felt this way as dps, hell half the time i expect to hold the boss aggro as a dps if things go sour or the group really sucks.

xbobx · January 2018

last night i tanked practically a whole dungeon on my bow/bow warden. Most tanks don't even bother.

Stratti · January 2018

Dear op,

As an experienced tank of multiple mmo it is vital to know the way the game works before shooting your mouth off.

To put it simply it is not the job of the tank in a multiple mob pull to hold all the aggro but rather to ensure survival through a combo of cc, taunt and shielding.

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

if a dd cant survive a normal mob without tank banysitting he is simply not dungeon ready....and i see wasy more issues with dd's that dont do damage or dont contribute in any way to the group besides spamming the same skills

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

Runefang wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Actually, in the cases of regular trash pulls like that, the tank should only need to taunt a handful of the most dangerous threats. The rest, you can heal through easily. A good tank would just do that, maybe CC the mobs, and then chain in the stragglers if he's able, and maybe cast vigor and shields as well to protect your squishy arse. This is the case for every single dungeon.

Another technique some tanks use is "soft-taunting", that is, to be the first source of damage on every single enemy so the tank would be the first target. This can be achieved by using an aoe damaging skill, and is the closesr you can get to an aoe taunt. However, the purpose of this isn't to protect teammates; it is to quickly and efficiently stack a group of enemies for a quick aoe bomb. This is much more of an advanced mechanic for speedrunning dungeons, and only the best of the best know how to use this mechanic.

Source: tanked all vet dungeons on hardmode and no-deaths, and am friends with and witnesses to many experienced tanks in vet trials.

I laughed at this, the tank's main job aside from being the one to get hit by bosses/tough enemies is to gather all the mobs. If it's only being done by the best of the best there must be a lot of bad tanks.

only few classes have actually skilld to do that tough

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

if a dd cant survive a normal mob without tank banysitting he is simply not dungeon ready....and i see wasy more issues with dd's that dont do damage or dont contribute in any way to the group besides spamming the same skills

Indeed. This is probably why you don't see many real tanks. I think the issue isn't an abundance of 'fake' tanks but a shortage of real ones. I'm one of those people that don't tank pugs for exactly the reason you described.

Maybe zos should just stop nerfing *** already.

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Actually, in the cases of regular trash pulls like that, the tank should only need to taunt a handful of the most dangerous threats. The rest, you can heal through easily. A good tank would just do that, maybe CC the mobs, and then chain in the stragglers if he's able, and maybe cast vigor and shields as well to protect your squishy arse. This is the case for every single dungeon.

Another technique some tanks use is "soft-taunting", that is, to be the first source of damage on every single enemy so the tank would be the first target. This can be achieved by using an aoe damaging skill, and is the closesr you can get to an aoe taunt. However, the purpose of this isn't to protect teammates; it is to quickly and efficiently stack a group of enemies for a quick aoe bomb. This is much more of an advanced mechanic for speedrunning dungeons, and only the best of the best know how to use this mechanic.

Source: tanked all vet dungeons on hardmode and no-deaths, and am friends with and witnesses to many experienced tanks in vet trials.

I laughed at this, the tank's main job aside from being the one to get hit by bosses/tough enemies is to gather all the mobs. If it's only being done by the best of the best there must be a lot of bad tanks.

only few classes have actually skilld to do that tough

Depends, tanks have so many uses in eso that sometimes it doesn't matter. And sometimes it does. If I had to generalize the role of tanks I'd say it's to support the group by mitigating damage and offering buffs. fight positioning is non essential, but almost equally as valuable for pve leaderboards.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.