Since the DK thread is quite full, a concise rundown on how to fix the class without OP

ak_pvp · October 2017

INB4 DK is OP permablock cancer. We all know that needs to go. But as DK has no proper defense without it, here are suggestions from a seasoned (salt mainly) DK.

Rundown: DK should be a slow but threatening class, reflecting attacks and locking down enemies. I.e. darth vader in rouge one. Not fast.

Wings: The way these have been snipped, especially since they are DKs main class defense outside of blocking. Make them reflect every projectile except bird and meteor. And not take status effects from reflected projectiles. Sustainability: 4k mag, 4 seconds and 4 projectile limit. For what it is, its too weak. So 3 options, drastically reduce (half) magicka cost, make it infinite projectiles limited duration, or infinite duration, limited projectiles.
Chains/stonefist: Why include them together? Because they imo should be one skill: Tectonics. A stun into a pull. How would this work? Stun for 1.5s. Then pull after the stun is over. If the stun is broken, then the target isn't pulled and then gains CC immunity. If it isn't broken, then the target doesn't gain CC immunity. This won't affect PvE as mobs often need to be pulled 2x , but have insta CC immunity from chains. The 1.5s stun would counteract this. This way it will be usable in PvP as utility against ranged characters, without straight up giving them CC immunity. Also the height issues need to be fixed. This will then open a skill slot.
Cauterize: If inferno won't be an AoE then this should. No other moving AoE heals exist, so this would be quite unique. It would tick every second. As current cauterize is LITERALLY useless, 5s for a ST heal is pathetic. Every 5 seconds it would cleanse 2 effects from everyone in the radius. (Think disinfecting with fire) Tadaa, more DK utility for a group.
Petrify: Undo the change.

This should all bring DKs in line as a melee class. And are very nearly necessary. Notice these aren't damage boosting, and instead ways they can hold their own against ranged opponents and be a benefit to the group. Now, for optional, less needed but happily taken changes.

Infernaoe: As spoken. (Maybe FOO can have a poison damage effect)
Implosion: Execute via stacking dots. Sorc could instead get a dot proc that has no health limit, so it won't affect overall DPS.
GDB: Now grants minor stam/health regen. And scales of total stats, so is still usable for both tank, stamDK, and even a hybrid. i.e. 10k mag 10k health and 10k stam would give same base heal as 5k mag 5k health and 20k stam for example.
Cinderstorm: Dodge chance. Would help keep tava tanks alive.
Battle roar: Unnerf. DK has *** sustain pre morrowind, and even shitter sustain post.

Thoughts?

Kilandros · October 2017

What I think DK needs and would make the class competitive in PvP again:

Major Heroism - Lots of places they could add this buff. One possibility is on Wings. Another is on Power Lash buff. This would help DK sustain which is very bad since ZOS nerfed Battle Roar when they nerfed sustain generally.

New Ardent Flame Passives - The passives in this skill line are quite bad. Searing Heat, for example, adds a small duration and damage increase to our Ardent Flame abilities--there's no reason for that to just be baked directly into the abilities. I propose reworking Searing Heat so that Ardent Flame abilities deal 10-15% more damage to targets under 50% health.

Another DoT that can't be easily purged - This is the main reason why I firmly believe Inferno needs to become an AoE. DK really only has 1 reliable DoT in PvP in Burning Embers. Engulfing Flames is a good ability, but it's mainly used for the debuff as the DoT is extremely weak. If Inferno was an AoE, I would have access to another DoT that I could force opponents to eat (they can't purge it because it's a PBAoE) so long as I'm in melee range.

Magma Shell Rework - I'm not a fan of the shield component of this ability. First, Battle Spirit makes the shield absolute garbage. Second, allies need to be stacked on top of you to get the shield. I would rather see this ability reworked into a Magicka version of Corrosive--let it ignore enemy Spell Resistance while active.

Major Evasion on Cinder Storm - Eruption stays the same, Cinder storm becomes cast at feet and grants Major Evasion while standing inside of it.

Elder Dragon Rework - We're going on 2.5 years of DKs asking for a rework of a passive that just sucks. Rework so that DKs gain 10% Magicka / Stamina / Health recovery while a Draconic ability is active.

Stone Fist - I'd just like to see this ability completely reworked. Go ahead and surprise me ZOS. But if Earthen Heart is eventually going to become our Healing/Utility tree, just go ahead and make it a useful heal/utility skill. Protip - the heal morph of the current version is not useful.

ak_pvp · October 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

What I think DK needs and would make the class competitive in PvP again:

Major Heroism - Lots of places they could add this buff. One possibility is on Wings. Another is on Power Lash buff. This would help DK sustain which is very bad since ZOS nerfed Battle Roar when they nerfed sustain generally.

New Ardent Flame Passives - The passives in this skill line are quite bad. Searing Heat, for example, adds a small duration and damage increase to our Ardent Flame abilities--there's no reason for that to just be baked directly into the abilities. I propose reworking Searing Heat so that Ardent Flame abilities deal 10-15% more damage to targets under 50% health.

Another DoT that can't be easily purged - This is the main reason why I firmly believe Inferno needs to become an AoE. DK really only has 1 reliable DoT in PvP in Burning Embers. Engulfing Flames is a good ability, but it's mainly used for the debuff as the DoT is extremely weak. If Inferno was an AoE, I would have access to another DoT that I could force opponents to eat (they can't purge it because it's a PBAoE) so long as I'm in melee range.

Magma Shell Rework - I'm not a fan of the shield component of this ability. First, Battle Spirit makes the shield absolute garbage. Second, allies need to be stacked on top of you to get the shield. I would rather see this ability reworked into a Magicka version of Corrosive--let it ignore enemy Spell Resistance while active.

Major Evasion on Cinder Storm - Eruption stays the same, Cinder storm becomes cast at feet and grants Major Evasion while standing inside of it.

Elder Dragon Rework - We're going on 2.5 years of DKs asking for a rework of a passive that just sucks. Rework so that DKs gain 10% Magicka / Stamina / Health recovery while a Draconic ability is active.

Stone Fist - I'd just like to see this ability completely reworked. Go ahead and surprise me ZOS. But if Earthen Heart is eventually going to become our Healing/Utility tree, just go ahead and make it a useful heal/utility skill. Protip - the heal morph of the current version is not useful.

I mentioned the lazy passives before. The fact that they only buff DK skills show that they should just be part of the ability already.

I'd like inferno to be aoe but wrobel has hard no'd that multiple times.

Kilandros · October 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

What I think DK needs and would make the class competitive in PvP again:

Major Heroism - Lots of places they could add this buff. One possibility is on Wings. Another is on Power Lash buff. This would help DK sustain which is very bad since ZOS nerfed Battle Roar when they nerfed sustain generally.

New Ardent Flame Passives - The passives in this skill line are quite bad. Searing Heat, for example, adds a small duration and damage increase to our Ardent Flame abilities--there's no reason for that to just be baked directly into the abilities. I propose reworking Searing Heat so that Ardent Flame abilities deal 10-15% more damage to targets under 50% health.

Another DoT that can't be easily purged - This is the main reason why I firmly believe Inferno needs to become an AoE. DK really only has 1 reliable DoT in PvP in Burning Embers. Engulfing Flames is a good ability, but it's mainly used for the debuff as the DoT is extremely weak. If Inferno was an AoE, I would have access to another DoT that I could force opponents to eat (they can't purge it because it's a PBAoE) so long as I'm in melee range.

Magma Shell Rework - I'm not a fan of the shield component of this ability. First, Battle Spirit makes the shield absolute garbage. Second, allies need to be stacked on top of you to get the shield. I would rather see this ability reworked into a Magicka version of Corrosive--let it ignore enemy Spell Resistance while active.

Major Evasion on Cinder Storm - Eruption stays the same, Cinder storm becomes cast at feet and grants Major Evasion while standing inside of it.

Elder Dragon Rework - We're going on 2.5 years of DKs asking for a rework of a passive that just sucks. Rework so that DKs gain 10% Magicka / Stamina / Health recovery while a Draconic ability is active.

Stone Fist - I'd just like to see this ability completely reworked. Go ahead and surprise me ZOS. But if Earthen Heart is eventually going to become our Healing/Utility tree, just go ahead and make it a useful heal/utility skill. Protip - the heal morph of the current version is not useful.

I mentioned the lazy passives before. The fact that they only buff DK skills show that they should just be part of the ability already.

I'd like inferno to be aoe but wrobel has hard no'd that multiple times.

We just gotta change his mind

Ocelot9x · October 2017

So another buff dk that's a buff MAG dk. Amazing. Your class is fine. Try a non heavy stam dk if you wanna feel underpowered

krathos · October 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

So another buff dk that's a buff MAG dk. Amazing. Your class is fine. Try a non heavy stam dk if you wanna feel underpowered

@Ocelot9x instead of coming in here and spewing vitirol about the other side of your own class you should make some suggestions about stamdk. We all know StamDK strength is tied to the strength of heavy armor and other non-class mechanics so here's you podium; suggest some changes instead of spewing unsubstantiated claims about magdk.

ak_pvp · October 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

So another buff dk that's a buff MAG dk. Amazing. Your class is fine. Try a non heavy stam dk if you wanna feel underpowered

In case you didn't realize, stamDK in heavy is tied FOTM and best is med stamDK for PvE DPS. I noted it has the same issues as magDK outside of heavy. Low utility, and lowish sustain, though it still has better sustain and damage than a magDK. (brutality, better leap and heavy attacks for sustain.)

Inferno posion damage? MagDK buff? Implosion off poison and fire, magDK only? How about GDB, since magDK uses coag. Or cinderstorm/battle roar. Because tanking and sustain is MagDK only.

The entire first section is utility. Which is often mag based, even for stamina classes. The second is as much of a buff for stam as it is for mag. I really suggest you up your reading comprehension before spewing ***.

Ocelot9x · October 2017

1) first section utility? Yeah,an implosion like mechanic sounds a lot like utility sure sure.
2) Arguing that medium stamina dk is fine in pve so it doesn't need pvp buffs is hilarious, really.
3) Stam dk is fotm? Nope,just a lot of people love their stam dk because it used to be OP.
4) heavy stam dk will get a huge nerf next patch thanks to shuffle "balance" and medium will still underperfom.
5) You can't say that mag dk isn't fine in every kind of environment. Really nice for group play (talons,innate tankyness,aoe interrupt) really good 1v1 (even if you fart you'll get a heal after patches of buffs).
6) Dumbest mechanics to survive; just combine permablock+heals+mist form
7) you can build even with light(actually one of the best build I ever seen on mag dk uses light armor) and still survive better than other classes forced to wear heavy

Meanwhile,stam dk lack everything else,and we all know that devs don't care about suggestions so who cares

Qbiken · October 2017

DK need a costreduction when it comes to their dps skills (especially magdk)

Kilandros · October 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

1) first section utility? Yeah,an implosion like mechanic sounds a lot like utility sure sure.
2) Arguing that medium stamina dk is fine in pve so it doesn't need pvp buffs is hilarious, really.
3) Stam dk is fotm? Nope,just a lot of people love their stam dk because it used to be OP.
4) heavy stam dk will get a huge nerf next patch thanks to shuffle "balance" and medium will still underperfom.
5) You can't say that mag dk isn't fine in every kind of environment. Really nice for group play (talons,innate tankyness,aoe interrupt) really good 1v1 (even if you fart you'll get a heal after patches of buffs).
6) Dumbest mechanics to survive; just combine permablock+heals+mist form
7) you can build even with light(actually one of the best build I ever seen on mag dk uses light armor) and still survive better than other classes forced to wear heavy

Meanwhile,stam dk lack everything else,and we all know that devs don't care about suggestions so who cares

Sorry, but you're out of your depth here. StamDK is currently #1 in PvE DPS. StamDK was, until 2 patches ago, the #1 1vX/Solo spec in PvP.

The issues you're having are with Medium Armor, not the class. Try not to confuse two.

ak_pvp · October 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

1) first section utility? Yeah,an implosion like mechanic sounds a lot like utility sure sure.
2) Arguing that medium stamina dk is fine in pve so it doesn't need pvp buffs is hilarious, really.
3) Stam dk is fotm? Nope,just a lot of people love their stam dk because it used to be OP.
4) heavy stam dk will get a huge nerf next patch thanks to shuffle "balance" and medium will still underperfom.
5) You can't say that mag dk isn't fine in every kind of environment. Really nice for group play (talons,innate tankyness,aoe interrupt) really good 1v1 (even if you fart you'll get a heal after patches of buffs).
6) Dumbest mechanics to survive; just combine permablock+heals+mist form
7) you can build even with light(actually one of the best build I ever seen on mag dk uses light armor) and still survive better than other classes forced to wear heavy

Meanwhile,stam dk lack everything else,and we all know that devs don't care about suggestions so who cares

Go back up and read my post. Is implosion in the utility first section?

Nope, I said that magDK is worse, and in my SECOND sentence said it needs buffs. Again, nice job reading.

StamDK is fotm? Heavy tank stamDK is what you see for most 1vx's Seventh, bloodspawn, sustain set is meta. The other FOTY is magsorc..

Shuffle, a nerf for all heavy stam classes. Noted medium issues. Hint: If wings is buffed, then dodge can be used more sparsely and save stam.

Really nice for group play? Talons is good, but can be used by stam classes too. i.e. stamblade fear. General DK is outclassed by sorc. StamDK has more "innate tankiness" Because it relies on way less mag, compared to the amount that magDK relies on stam. Agree on the DK 1v1 heals one. 7th legion gives more healing in 1vx, for a stamDK.

Couldn't the same be said for stamDK? Permablock, get constant heals, shuffle? Mist is a trash skill too lel.

Well the last point isn't true at all. Light magDK unless its running some variation of permablock is very squishy. No cloak, no extra shields, godmode constant heals etc. And to get a tanky light DK, you have to sacrifice quite a bit. Though as I have said in many threads. Medium is heavily underpowered.

scipionumatia · October 2017

As a class that sustains largely through ulti useage we have no class abilities that give major or minor heroism. Sad

sly007 · October 2017

Dk does not need any buffs. Enough with these threads. Both stam and magicka perform well in pvp and pve. P

scipionumatia · October 2017

^ bahahahaha get a load of this guy

ak_pvp · October 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Dk does not need any buffs. Enough with these threads. Both stam and magicka perform well in pvp and pve. P

Lel. Mobility? Nope. Utility? Nope. Burst? Nope. Sustainable dot pressure? Nope. Execute? Nope. Functioning gapcloser? Nope. Sustain? Worst.

Granted mobility and a gap closer isn't needed.

Survival is via block. Which everyone is trying to nerf. No other class defense mechanism since wings are rip.

scipionumatia · October 2017

@ak_pvp I know right? The General section of the forums is all about nerfing heavy survivability which is the ONLY thing keeping stam dk relevant in pvp.
But I guess it makes sense-
1. Dk gets nerfed over and over again.
2. People move onto a different class, usually something easy to play like a mag sorc or stam blade. Or new players, no reason for them to play dk in pvp when other classes out preform dk.
3. They run into long time DK players who are skilled and get smashed, not cause DK is strong but because THEYRE trash.
4. Come to the forum to cry cause they couldn't insta gib.

I'm looking at General section just shaking my head, even if we can pump out damage with fury/7th legion, all our spamable skills are single target.
I can't believe the conversation were having now is to nerf our survivability. That's ***

Enslaved · October 2017

DK and its DoTs being purged easily.

Make a passive in AF tree that makes any dot from DK skills that is purged deal instantly half of its DoT damage to a target.
This would make DK better against cancer templar builds and some of the zergs.

scipionumatia · October 2017

@Enslaved
That would give me a reason to run dots in pvp

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Not much talk about stamDK.
I don't want to divide DKs so I suggest you don't end your posts without including both classes.

Both our classes are strong in 1v1. Both our classes are irrelevant to meaningful mass PvP.
Both our classes can be turned into troll builds.

We need to improve our classes skills. Start talking about both magika and stamina ideas.

Stamina wings, stamina stonefirst(not stone giant animation plz. Looks like crap), stamina talons.

StamDKs with stamable morphs would be OP.
@Zos. Give us stamina costing class utilities.
Diversity.

OutLaw_Nynx · October 2017

Stam dk needs some love. We have two Stam morphs?

lucky_Sage · October 2017

turn green dragon blood in to a stam morph
stone fist becomes a gap closer with a mag and stam morph version of each
cinder storm loses snare but becomes a player based aoe so player chooses dmg or mobility with spell
fragmented shield now scales off max magicka and effected allies a 5 second hot
elder dragon passive needs to change to all types of recovery or cost reduction
searing heat increases the dmg are ardent flame dot dmg by 25% to enemies under 35% hp
dragon knight standard base spell either increase size or reduce ult cost shifting standard should become a player based aoe

Toc de Malsvi · October 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

DK and its DoTs being purged easily.

Make a passive in AF tree that makes any dot from DK skills that is purged deal instantly half of its DoT damage to a target.
This would make DK better against cancer templar builds and some of the zergs.

This would be a good option, because it would not directly increase dot power but would allow dots to have some staying power in PVP.

Xvorg · October 2017

But ZoS buffed statuses, so DKs are OP because of the dmg icrease to burning and poisoned...

#Crap

Combustion is a crap of a passive... it is useless for StamDKs and MagDKs... IDK why people spends 2 skill ppoints in a skill tha does barely nothing. There's no way to increase status dmg so no build will ever be made around that.

Wrongbel, I want a 2017 aredent flame passive and no one from 2014... If you don't get it, I'll explain it:

FLAME/POISON BASED SKILLS ARE NOT STATUSES!!!