Maikon wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Remember when people were so sure that Warden was going to be OP and render the other classes useless?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers...

They are OP. All things considered, they are likely the best class in PvP.

Put a magwarden against a shield stacking sorc and 99% of the time they'll never touch them.

If yoou think this is true your don't know how to play the game.A Magsorc will never be able to touch a magwardens with anything but curse and even then they can purge it. Crystallized shards pretty much make it so a sorc can't kill a warden or setup there burst.Shards just absorb all of the sorcs damage.Even if they don't purge your curse harness will just refund the cost of the shield. Using a magic sorc you will never beat a equal skilled magwardens almost the same with range magblade you have nothing you can use to really damage them.Magblade just have better CC which will allow them to get some damage in.

I'll believe wardens can't do end-game content, when I am actually unable to do end-game content. I have done everything you can do PvE with a warden, without any more or less issues than any other class. Maybe try something out that isn't a copy/paste of the flavor of the month.

generalmyrick wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

It is far less fun if you cant use them in endgame where all your other friends or characters are playing.

I believe...don't hate me please...the good players in this game could play mag wardens in end game content if they "tried."

Frankly I've found "some" folks close mindedness in this game to be horrifying.

I'm just commenting generally, I do not know you or your friends.

All gold juli and necro and 1 price Ice heart vMA staff gets me to 28k if I don't miss in rotation. It's clunky and freezes after barswap. It's hard to be competitive with other mag dps with more and stronger aoes.

MagWarden might be fun for casual play, I don't think anyone argued against that. But that doesn't get you anywhere is most endgame contend. You can't kite around mobs in vet trials, you have to do DPS and this is where MagWarden falls short. That's what people are complaining about.

vpy wrote: »

Having read all the negative things about them in the forums, I must say I have lost all the interest in Mag Wardens.

Day earlier I started leveling an Altmer Mag Warden.

Damn...they are freaking fun

Of course they are not monster damagers like Mag Sorc

Running around kiting mobs with them racers is uber fun

Also Wall of Elements + Gripping Cold thing + Burrow spell = all mobs dead...if you need more fun unleash Winter ult

And if you are facing boss unleash your bear

Seriously WTF is wrong with you folks dissing a perfectly fun spec to oblivion ??

Agree. Finally started my Mag Warden a few days ago and it's a ton of fun. I am having no problem killing mobs and pulling decent DPS numbers using Combat Metrics. Just hit level 21 and it is doing quite well.

For me personally, PVE mag warden seemed quite average. Maybe I'll use it more, but was not initially impressed. Sitting there at level 15, collecting dust.

vpy wrote: »

Having read all the negative things about them in the forums, I must say I have lost all the interest in Mag Wardens.

Day earlier I started leveling an Altmer Mag Warden.

Damn...they are freaking fun

Of course they are not monster damagers like Mag Sorc

Running around kiting mobs with them racers is uber fun

Also Wall of Elements + Gripping Cold thing + Burrow spell = all mobs dead...if you need more fun unleash Winter ult

And if you are facing boss unleash your bear

Seriously WTF is wrong with you folks dissing a perfectly fun spec to oblivion ??

Yeah that's the thing. If you play alone, the Mag Warden is really fun. Even in PvP he is a lot fun.

But as the other players said: When you try to do endgame in a good way, you'll see that other classes do A LOT more DPS. with the same gear and same amount of CP.

Tried it a few days ago again with support at the puppet with two different versions of sets and both were nearly the same:

Nonpetbuild with 5x Julianos + 1x Iceheart + 5x Nekro (because activate with Netch), 2 Shockstaves, Destro-Ulti on Backbar, Icewall on Frontbar = 21k DPS
Petbuild with 5x Masterarchitect + 5x Nekro + 2x Maelstrom (Shock + Fire), Pet-Ulti on both bars = 22k DPS

So let's say other players would do a better rotation then me or maybe other sets, they could get up to 25k DPS at puppet and more than 30k in raids (I got 30k in the raid), this class is very low DPS.

Have a look to nightblades or sorcerer, they could reach 40k in a raid.

But yeah it always depends on what you want. If you only want farming, questing, Beginners-Raids, PvP: the warden is a good DPS Char. He is not bad at all, he is just not as good as other classes in the highend-content.

But I still don't understand why they give us a cool Bear who is possible to use as Mag Warden and he is dying everytime in some trials like Halls of Fabrication.. I mean...why did we get the bear then??!

Timeraider wrote: »

SolidusPrime wrote: »

I'll believe wardens can't do end-game content, when I am actually unable to do end-game content. I have done everything you can do PvE with a warden, without any more or less issues than any other class. Maybe try something out that isn't a copy/paste of the flavor of the month.

No class in ANY game ever made could fully not do a part of PvE while everyone else could. That would make the class invalid and would mean either a rework or simple deletion from the game as it has no use.

However if you compare 2 equally geared and skilled classes and one of the two is by far inferior to the other not in just a few so that it can balance out, but even objectively simply inferior.... you can talk about "issues"

That ofcourse can only be said for PvE. For PvP Wardens are more than capable.

Warden is just about completely excluded from serious endgane content if you look at leader boards.

generalmyrick wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

It is far less fun if you cant use them in endgame where all your other friends or characters are playing.

I believe...don't hate me please...the good players in this game could play mag wardens in end game content if they "tried."

Frankly I've found "some" folks close mindedness in this game to be horrifying.

I'm just commenting generally, I do not know you or your friends.

Good players play the best classes because they have an incentive to do so: they want to get on leader boards. If you look at leader boards, you'll see almost no wardens on there.

People have tried to make the class work for the past 4 months. Just look at all the theorycrafting that has been done on here, on Tamriel Foundry, and and by some of the top players. It's a fundamentally broken class. There is nothing the player base can do to fix it. ZOS needs to address the issues. And so far, they've shown zero interest in doing that. I find that extremely disrespectful because people paid real money for this class.

If you increase the cost of the tree ulti, then you need to add a benefit or 2 to the ulti itself, such as major protection, otherwise there would be no reason to use the tree ulti over the resto ulti, which is 100 and gives multiple benefits.

Chufu wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Having read all the negative things about them in the forums, I must say I have lost all the interest in Mag Wardens.

Day earlier I started leveling an Altmer Mag Warden.

Damn...they are freaking fun

Of course they are not monster damagers like Mag Sorc

Running around kiting mobs with them racers is uber fun

Also Wall of Elements + Gripping Cold thing + Burrow spell = all mobs dead...if you need more fun unleash Winter ult

And if you are facing boss unleash your bear

Seriously WTF is wrong with you folks dissing a perfectly fun spec to oblivion ??

Yeah that's the thing. If you play alone, the Mag Warden is really fun. Even in PvP he is a lot fun.

But as the other players said: When you try to do endgame in a good way, you'll see that other classes do A LOT more DPS. with the same gear and same amount of CP.

Tried it a few days ago again with support at the puppet with two different versions of sets and both were nearly the same:

Nonpetbuild with 5x Julianos + 1x Iceheart + 5x Nekro (because activate with Netch), 2 Shockstaves, Destro-Ulti on Backbar, Icewall on Frontbar = 21k DPS
Petbuild with 5x Masterarchitect + 5x Nekro + 2x Maelstrom (Shock + Fire), Pet-Ulti on both bars = 22k DPS

So let's say other players would do a better rotation then me or maybe other sets, they could get up to 25k DPS at puppet and more than 30k in raids (I got 30k in the raid), this class is very low DPS.

Have a look to nightblades or sorcerer, they could reach 40k in a raid.

But yeah it always depends on what you want. If you only want farming, questing, Beginners-Raids, PvP: the warden is a good DPS Char. He is not bad at all, he is just not as good as other classes in the highend-content.

But I still don't understand why they give us a cool Bear who is possible to use as Mag Warden and he is dying everytime in some trials like Halls of Fabrication.. I mean...why did we get the bear then??!

The bear was designed to be a core part of every warden build. It adds ~3-4k DPS (yet funny enough, even with the bear, the warden is STILL 3-4k DPS behind the other magicka classes). Unfortunately, it's a useless ult in trials and vet DLC dungeons because:

1. It turns the warden into a single target class (meaning they need to outperform stamina classes in DPS, which outparse them by a good 10-15k DPS...)

2. It's a double bar ability meaning you lose it if you want to use an AOE ult (which is mandatory for all magicka classes)

3. It dies instantly in most endgame content, requiring a respawn, which has the longest animation of any skill in the game

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chufu wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Having read all the negative things about them in the forums, I must say I have lost all the interest in Mag Wardens.

Day earlier I started leveling an Altmer Mag Warden.

Damn...they are freaking fun

Of course they are not monster damagers like Mag Sorc

Running around kiting mobs with them racers is uber fun

Also Wall of Elements + Gripping Cold thing + Burrow spell = all mobs dead...if you need more fun unleash Winter ult

And if you are facing boss unleash your bear

Seriously WTF is wrong with you folks dissing a perfectly fun spec to oblivion ??

Yeah that's the thing. If you play alone, the Mag Warden is really fun. Even in PvP he is a lot fun.

But as the other players said: When you try to do endgame in a good way, you'll see that other classes do A LOT more DPS. with the same gear and same amount of CP.

Tried it a few days ago again with support at the puppet with two different versions of sets and both were nearly the same:

Nonpetbuild with 5x Julianos + 1x Iceheart + 5x Nekro (because activate with Netch), 2 Shockstaves, Destro-Ulti on Backbar, Icewall on Frontbar = 21k DPS
Petbuild with 5x Masterarchitect + 5x Nekro + 2x Maelstrom (Shock + Fire), Pet-Ulti on both bars = 22k DPS

So let's say other players would do a better rotation then me or maybe other sets, they could get up to 25k DPS at puppet and more than 30k in raids (I got 30k in the raid), this class is very low DPS.

Have a look to nightblades or sorcerer, they could reach 40k in a raid.

But yeah it always depends on what you want. If you only want farming, questing, Beginners-Raids, PvP: the warden is a good DPS Char. He is not bad at all, he is just not as good as other classes in the highend-content.

But I still don't understand why they give us a cool Bear who is possible to use as Mag Warden and he is dying everytime in some trials like Halls of Fabrication.. I mean...why did we get the bear then??!

The bear was designed to be a core part of every warden build. It adds ~3-4k DPS (yet funny enough, even with the bear, the warden is STILL 3-4k DPS behind the other magicka classes). Unfortunately, it's a useless ult in trials and vet DLC dungeons because:

1. It turns the warden into a single target class (meaning they need to outperform stamina classes in DPS, which outparse them.by a good 10-15k DPS...)

2. It's a double bar ability mean you lose it if you want to use an AOE ult (which is mandatory for all magicka classes)

3. It dies instantly in most endgame content, requiring a respawn, which has the longest animation of any skill in the game

If they made the bear not take any damage from dungeon and trial monsters (like 100% version of minor Aegis), and only required to be on 1 bar, then the Warden might actually be viable.

Thogard wrote: »

If PvE people think a class isn't powerful enough, why don't they PvE themselves up another class.

That's exactly what we do.

Thogard wrote: »

If they think PvE isn't balanced, then maybe ZOS should increase the difficulty of the trials.

This has nothing to do with difficulty of the content, but relative strengths of the classes, and why we should even bother picking some of them.

Thogard wrote: »

I fail to see how "all classes need the same PvE DPS in end-game content" is a viable concern.

They don't have to have same dps, but a reason to be picked. All classes have to have something unique and desirable to contribute to a group or there is just no point on having multiple classes. If one is outclassed by the rest on literally every aspect, then it's useless.

Thogard wrote: »

"Balance" refers to you vs your opponent. Whether it's a trial boss, a Zerg group, or a duel, balance is only an issue when you are placed in an adversarial role against something else

Balance never refers to your opponent, but to two comparable mechanics. Balance between races, weapon lines, sets, and yes, classes. These are things you are supposed to pick to suit your playstyle that should have clear weaknesses and advantages. When one of these is so much stronger or weaker than the rest, that made it impossible to pick on any situation, you have an imbalance.

If we were not going to bother to address these issues, why would we even have multiple classes, gear, etc. I’ll tell you why, cause of diversity. Not all of us like to play the same way, if we did we would just stick to rock, paper and scissors. There is perfect balance there.

Thogard wrote: »

And you are never going up against other PvE players.

Oh but we do, we compete to contribute the most to our party.

KingJ wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Remember when people were so sure that Warden was going to be OP and render the other classes useless?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers...

They are OP. All things considered, they are likely the best class in PvP.

Put a magwarden against a shield stacking sorc and 99% of the time they'll never touch them.

If yoou think this is true your don't know how to play the game.A Magsorc will never be able to touch a magwardens with anything but curse and even then they can purge it. Crystallized shards pretty much make it so a sorc can't kill a warden or setup there burst.Shards just absorb all of the sorcs damage.Even if they don't purge your curse harness will just refund the cost of the shield. Using a magic sorc you will never beat a equal skilled magwardens almost the same with range magblade you have nothing you can use to really damage them.Magblade just have better CC which will allow them to get some damage in.

Yea, since I main a magwarden I know what it's like. Also, the warden shield doesn't fully absorb whatever it hits, it has a limit just like any other shield.

If you come across a sorc that just spams 30k+ shields, you won't beat him, not with the low constant output damage of a magwarden, best you would do is a stalemate.

And a fun fact that probably no one knows, is that the warden shield can also absorb curse, as well as jesus beam and soul assault if you know how to do it right.

I've used my MagWard in endgame content. No one had an issue with me using a Warden.