Ummm...Mag Warden is not bad at all

vpy

Having read all the negative things about them in the forums, I must say I have lost all the interest in Mag Wardens.

Day earlier I started leveling an Altmer Mag Warden.

Damn...they are freaking fun

Of course they are not monster damagers like Mag Sorc

Running around kiting mobs with them racers is uber fun

Also Wall of Elements + Gripping Cold thing + Burrow spell = all mobs dead...if you need more fun unleash Winter ult

And if you are facing boss unleash your bear

Seriously WTF is wrong with you folks dissing a perfectly fun spec to oblivion ??

SodanTok

It is far less fun if you cant use them in endgame where all your other friends or characters are playing.

Ankael07

Every class,skill line or gear build can be fun when youre fighting regular mobs. Its the end game PVE that people complain about

Tryxus

The only thing bad about a Warden is its Magicka DPS. Besides that, they are perfectly capable of running endgame PvE content in other roles (Heal, Tank and Stamina DPS) while still being strong for PvP (tho their Trees need trimming)

Lexxypwns

I think there are 2 aspects of magika warden that are considered to be, more or less, universally true.

1. Their PVE DPS is non-competitive.
2. Their PVP burst and utility are both really strong at present.

Axoinus

Negative commentary about build performance issues is 99% of time directed at PvP circumstances.

For PvE, an average build with average equipment is solid for 95% of solo content. Maybe more than 95%.

technohic

Wardens have surpassed DKs on the "kill x class" drop list in PVP yet they still hit like a Mack truck and are the bane of medium armor builds. Look like they are plenty fun to me. Probably just not in top end PVE where the other classes more specialize in roles.

Caligamy_ESO

You are describing the burst portion of mag warden which is working fine. It's the sustained dps on mag warden that is pretty terrible.

MLGProPlayer

You're talking about overland questing. You can complete that content running naked and light attacking everything.

This is how many wardens there are in top-100 PvE leader boards:

HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

They're a useless endgame class. Their magicka damage is absolutely putrid, and not just compared to sorcs. They parse 20% lower in DPS tests compared to templar/DK/NB too.

Stamina DPS is better off, but still gets outclassed by all the other stamina specs.

Warden healers and tanks are decent, but are simply not as good as templars and DKs.

The only areas of the game they are good in are PvP and vMA.

Betsararie

They are insanely good in PvP. Probably the best class overall right now.

KingJ

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

Izaki

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

One part of the game isn't more important than the other. Its their job to make sure they only buff the PvE side of things.

MLGProPlayer

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

PvE is the more popular game mode, by far,

And sure you can buff them in PvE without affecting PvP. They suck right now because their DoTs do no damage. Buff trheir damage over time, and they'll be viable in PvE without having much effect on PvP balance (DoTs are useless in PvP). They also have no buffs/debuffs.

Or just rework cliff racer. That's the only thing that makes them "OP" in the PvP zerg.

Mazbt

Depends where you are in this game....for end game trials magden dps isn't too great for a min/maxed kind of mindset.

Krayzie

Axoinus wrote: »

Negative commentary about build performance issues is 99% of time directed at PvP circumstances.

For PvE, an average build with average equipment is solid for 95% of solo content. Maybe more than 95%.

That's because PVE was figured out 3 years ago and PVP is always changing

Megabear

I have two Mag Wardens. I love them, but magicka Frost DPS Warden is admittedly struggling w/ DPS output.

MLGProPlayer

Megabear wrote: »

I have two Mag Wardens. I love them, but magicka Frost DPS Warden is admittedly struggling w/ DPS output.

It's not just frost damage that struggles. All their magicka damage specs struggles. And although stamina doesn't "struggle" it's still the worst stamina class.

NordSwordnBoard

Everytime I take the magwarden to level his undaunted I wish I was using my sorc instead.

Betsararie

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

PvE is the more popular game mode, by far,

And sure you can buff them in PvE without affecting PvP. They suck right now because their DoTs do no damage. Buff trheir damage over time, and they'll be viable in PvE without having much effect on PvP balance (DoTs are useless in PvP). They also have no buffs/debuffs.

Or just rework cliff racer. That's the only thing that makes them "OP" in the PvP zerg.

What makes them OP is the fact that magden has the single highest burst potential in PvP, some of the highest survivability, tree spam which is OP, that ulti's cost is way too low. Their regen is also very high due to passives and some of their skills.

Cliff racer just adds to that being what is most likely the best spammable in the game.

For people who play PvE, hasn't it been out a while now that Stam DK has the highest ST DPS this patch? Well, then maybe you should roll a Stam DK. They're already proven to have the highest DPS. What need is there to play anything else?

In PvE, Diversity doesn't mean very much because there's no variation in the content. All that matters is numbers (DPS, HPS, etc) so whatever class is most optimal, is always the one you should play. I am a fan of PvE too, but there's no denying that there's no variety in the content.

In PvP, no 2 fights are the same and fights are infinitely more interesting. That is why the game should be balanced with PvP in mind first, and then PvE would ideally be taken into consideration 2nd. PvE is also, on average, much easier.

MLGProPlayer

Blanco wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

PvE is the more popular game mode, by far,

And sure you can buff them in PvE without affecting PvP. They suck right now because their DoTs do no damage. Buff trheir damage over time, and they'll be viable in PvE without having much effect on PvP balance (DoTs are useless in PvP). They also have no buffs/debuffs.

Or just rework cliff racer. That's the only thing that makes them "OP" in the PvP zerg.

What makes them OP is the fact that magden has the single highest burst potential in PvP, some of the highest survivability, tree spam which is OP, that ulti's cost is way too low. Their regen is also very high due to passives and some of their skills.

Cliff racer just adds to that being what is most likely the best spammable in the game.

For people who play PvE, hasn't it been out a while now that Stam DK has the highest ST DPS this patch? Well, then maybe you should roll a Stam DK. They're already proven to have the highest DPS. What need is there to play anything else?

In PvE, Diversity doesn't mean very much because there's no variation in the content. All that matters is numbers (DPS, HPS, etc) so whatever class is most optimal, is always the one you should play. I am a fan of PvE too, but there's no denying that there's no variety in the content.

In PvP, no 2 fights are the same and fights are infinitely more interesting. That is why the game should be balanced with PvP in mind first, and then PvE would ideally be taken into consideration 2nd. PvE is also, on average, much easier.

The balance should be separated. Or they should balance both modes.

But if they are going to balance only one, then logic would dictate that the more popular mode is the focus.

Morgul667

Warden is very good in PVP and bad DPS in PVE

Sure you can run all vet dungeons with it but you are clearly falling behind compared to what could be done with another DPS

Morgul667

Axoinus wrote: »

Negative commentary about build performance issues is 99% of time directed at PvP circumstances.

For PvE, an average build with average equipment is solid for 95% of solo content. Maybe more than 95%.

Except warden issue is PVE not PVP lol

Betsararie

Morgul667 wrote: »

Warden is very good in PVP and bad DPS in PVE

Sure you can run all vet dungeons with it but you are clearly falling behind compared to what could be done with another DPS

Believe me, if you play PvE and want high DPS. Roll a stam DK.

Their DPS is just completely insane. Off the charts. If I was super serious about PvE moreso than PvP, I would roll a stam DK, because I would be top of the food chain.

There is, more or less no need to roll anything else for a pure DPS role, unless you are running a highly optimized trial group that is in need of AOE DPS, as I understand it, many trial groups are taking one Mag Sorc for their superior AOE DPS.

Morgul667

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Warden is very good in PVP and bad DPS in PVE

Sure you can run all vet dungeons with it but you are clearly falling behind compared to what could be done with another DPS

Believe me, if you play PvE and want high DPS. Roll a stam DK.

Their DPS is just completely insane. Off the charts. If I was super serious about PvE moreso than PvP, I would roll a stam DK, because I would be top of the food chain.

There is, more or less no need to roll anything else for a pure DPS role, unless you are running a highly optimized trial group that is in need of AOE DPS, as I understand it, many trial groups are taking one Mag Sorc for their superior AOE DPS.

Im planning on making one to try, but wish to enjoy my stamblade a little longer

MLGProPlayer

Blanco wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Warden is very good in PVP and bad DPS in PVE

Sure you can run all vet dungeons with it but you are clearly falling behind compared to what could be done with another DPS

Believe me, if you play PvE and want high DPS. Roll a stam DK.

Their DPS is just completely insane. Off the charts. If I was super serious about PvE moreso than PvP, I would roll a stam DK, because I would be top of the food chain.

There is, more or less no need to roll anything else for a pure DPS role, unless you are running a highly optimized trial group that is in need of AOE DPS, as I understand it, many trial groups are taking one Mag Sorc for their superior AOE DPS.

Look at the DPS lineups top guilds like Hodor trot out. They're extremely varied. Utility can make a lower DPS class still viable.

This was their recent no-death HoF lineup:

1 Stamina Templar 4 Stamina Dragonknights 2 Magicka Nightblades 1 Magicka Sorcerer

Wardens have low DPS (far lower than any other class) and no utility.

Osteos

Warden is a great class. Really shines in pvp. Can complete all dungeons without issues. It's just the min/max trial people that are negative.

SanTii.92

IcyDeadPeople

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

Part of the reason they are perhaps overperforming in PVP is their main damage abilities have a brief delay, which lends itself to high burst damage. Also the absurdly cheap healing ultimate (75 cost) among other buffs, makes them quite tanky.

As healers in PVE they are strong as well in all the end game content, close to templar healer and I'd say they are with templar on a tier above DK, NB, Sorc.

I suppose PVE dps role benefits more from sustained dps instead of burst. Might be a way to buff for PVE dps and slight nerf for PVP at the same time if for example Deep Fissure were changed to DoT instead of delayed burst, and Enchanted Forest ulti cost increased from 75 to 100.

MLGProPlayer

Osteos wrote: »

Warden is a great class. Really shines in pvp. Can complete all dungeons without issues. It's just the min/max trial people that are negative.

You can complete most dungeons with light attack. That's hardly a measure of viability.

And their problems aren't only with endgame viability. It's actually an even bigger problem at the lower end of the skill spectrum. Players with suboptimal gear/rotations deal absurdly low damage with them (magicka warden parses 20% below the other magicka classes). With BiS gear and a perfect rotation, the class tops out at 28-29k DPS. A bad player will be struggling to hit 10k damage with a warden.

VaranisArano

In my experience, a mag warden with CP is super easy to play when leveling. You spam cliff racers, have decent AOE options, resistances, and the shalks. Its not my best DPS class (that's my beloved stam sorcs) but its still very fun to level.

On the other hand, the mag warden that I'm deliberately leveling without CP to replicate the experience of a new player? Oh boy. She is NOT having an easy time of it. And that's with me being a max CP player who knows how to play her efficiently. Its hard to balance cliff racer DPS, AOEs, resistances, and healing with a more limited magicka pool and no CP reduction of skill costs. She's probably the hardest character I've ever leveled and, again, I do know what I'm doing.

I'm not complaining though. The no CP while leveling is a self-imposed challenge so I'd be silly to complain. However, the experience has given me a new appreciation for how much CP benefits the class and makes it so much more playable.

SanTii.92

KingJ wrote: »

Pvp balance means more then PVE tbey can't buff them in PVE without making them even stronger in PvP.

Of course they can, this is a terrible excuse. It's as easy as addressing the problematic issue with pvp wardens at the same time, mainly Secluded Grove and Shimmering Shield's ult gen. Tune down those, and you can improve dps capabilities.