[PVP Players]Zenimax should reconsider VMA weapon nerf

Kanar · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Stop with the "it's a slight buff in PvE" and "this is a nerf to PvP only."

The maelstrom weapon changes are a nerf on both sides.

Well 90% of the forum have been calling it a buff. I assume they meant Pve. I didn't think it was.

Well many people don't know what they're talking about. In PvE 2 scenarios are being nerfed for sure: 1.) Peak DPS: losing ability to infuse maelstrom enchant will reduce the top end (min/maxed) DPS. 2.) Anyone who uses DW or 2H maelstrom weapons. Yes, some people do still use those. Maybe not in trials but they can be used in vet dungeons, for solo builds like vMA builds (2H is common here) or dungeon/world boss soloing soloing, etc.

Juhasow · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Yes there is incentive. PvE wise maesltorm destro will still be BiS for offbar propably. Noone said it have to be best in every area. Also maybe maesltorm destro will loose little purpose in PvP but things like maesltorm resto or s&b definietly will be much better for PvP now. It's normal thing in games some things getting worse some getting better. Everything flows.

I dunno. An extra 400 magica when I use a largely redundant skill in PvP at the cost of a 5 piece? I doubt it. S&b being 2 slots will probably hurt it a lot in PvP too. Destro will be useless. 2h will have very little use. They've killed them in PvP, which is whatever. I'll adapt. I have build that don't use them so it isn't a problem.

Just sick of people saying they've been buffed and people are just QQing about them. It genuinely feels like salt from those unable to get them.

Little correction it'll be 800 magicka for resto staff which basicly allwos to restore more magicka then Regeneration cost or atleast makes skill free cost. S&b beeing 2 items set is still very good if You considering how strong buff it gives in return. Asylum 2h will be strong so You can wear it instead of maesltorm.

People will just have to adapt. Old metas and build ideas are changing and people will have to adapt to new ones but that doesnt mean new ones will be weaker then old ones, Imo some of new setups will be much stronger then current ones.

Skinzz · September 2017

OP said everything that was on my mind.

montiferus · September 2017

Agree with OP. My suspicion is the people who are arguing with him either dont PVP or are terrible at it so as not to realize the nerf.

If you look at the amount of interest in the game you can see it is in rapid decline. Streamers have left en masse and these constant updates have done nothing to improve the performance issues that have plagued this game since day 1. The lack of attention to PVP from the developers is an absolute joke.

PS - It's actually 226+ weapon damage with major brutality plus whatever modifiers you may have up.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Yes there is incentive. PvE wise maesltorm destro will still be BiS for offbar propably. Noone said it have to be best in every area. Also maybe maesltorm destro will loose little purpose in PvP but things like maesltorm resto or s&b definietly will be much better for PvP now. It's normal thing in games some things getting worse some getting better. Everything flows.

I dunno. An extra 400 magica when I use a largely redundant skill in PvP at the cost of a 5 piece? I doubt it. S&b being 2 slots will probably hurt it a lot in PvP too. Destro will be useless. 2h will have very little use. They've killed them in PvP, which is whatever. I'll adapt. I have build that don't use them so it isn't a problem.

Just sick of people saying they've been buffed and people are just QQing about them. It genuinely feels like salt from those unable to get them.

Little correction it'll be 800 magicka for resto staff which basicly allwos to restore more magicka then Regeneration cost or atleast makes skill free cost. S&b beeing 2 items set is still very good if You considering how strong buff it gives in return. Asylum 2h will be strong so You can wear it instead of maesltorm.

People will just have to adapt. Old metas and build ideas are changing and people will have to adapt to new ones but that doesnt mean new ones will be weaker then old ones, Imo some of new setups will be much stronger then current ones.

Well it's 400 extra, because it's already 400 and nobody uses it already.

Yeh, I'll adapt and use something else. I'm fine with that and theory crafting is something I hugely enjoy. It just annoys me how people called it a buff.

Also, it removes options and different ways to build a character. Any time that happens it sad.

Arthg · September 2017

raasdal wrote: »

So everyone complains that vMSA are "BiS" and a "Must-Have" dealbreaker for any build, and how that is BS considering how difficult it is, to obtain in desired trait.

Then ZOS goes out and fixes all your Trait problems, allowing you to not having to grind the same content endlessly.

And at the same time ZOS fixes the base issue of vMSA weapons being too overpowered, by changing it to how it should ALWAYS have been. That the special function was a 1 pcs. set, just like the Monster 2 pcs.

So all in all, ONLY good changes to the health of the game.

The result?; Everyone who already suffered the grinding go all QQ.

Have you completed the arena?

It was hard, very hard, for me.

I'd have never done it for a mere buff on one ability.

I'm at a loss of words as to what to answer to your statements that the weapons were "too overpowered".
I mean, LOL.

We just had a real choice between a 5-piece bonus, or a vMA weapon.

That choice is now gone.

Skinzz · September 2017

I could care less about the enchantment. I've been using VMA weapons as part of my PvP builds for years now. The WD/SD was the only reason I used these weapons.

Emma_Overload · September 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Me neither

You don't see the difference between a weapon that gives a constant bonus to a useful stat and a weapon that doesn't? Did you read the whole OP? Some of us grinded for Maelstrom and Master weapons JUST so we could have that set bonus in that slot. I couldn't even tell you what the actual enchantment is on a VMA staff... that's how little I care about it. That set bonus that you think is no big deal is the ONLY thing that makes a 5-3-2-1 build competitive with a 5-5-1 or 5/4-5/4-2 build. Willpower/Agility builds were already just barely viable, now they're dead.

icontrive · September 2017

Bottom line is ZOS is making the game easier for casuals. The VMA grind was for the dedicated players who wanted an edge over the others. VMA was a grind and made my blood pressure rise but I respected it. One of the most rewarding challenge I’ve ever had in a video game was beating VMA and getting that weapon. Now there will be no reason to go in there for anyone. Why use a VMA weapon when a crafted or overland one will be just as good? Why go through that struggle? For everyone who is saying they don’t get why losing 189 damage is such a big deal, it’s more than just that. For me at least.

Navoric_Envaldreth · September 2017

icontrive wrote: »

Bottom line is ZOS is making the game easier for casuals. The VMA grind was for the dedicated players who wanted an edge over the others. VMA was a grind and made my blood pressure rise but I respected it. One of the most rewarding challenge I’ve ever had in a video game was beating VMA and getting that weapon. Now there will be no reason to go in there for anyone. Why use a VMA weapon when a crafted or overland one will be just as good? Why go through that struggle? For everyone who is saying they don’t get why losing 189 damage is such a big deal, it’s more than just that. For me at least.

VMA forced people to have to adjust to very specific builds. If you were a tank or healer and wanted a VMA weapon.. well.. better get some more dps sets and respec a few times because god forbid someone is group-orientated in this solo game.

Krayzie · September 2017

Love how they moved my topic to PVP section after clearly I stated it would get significantly less attention.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Well some people may not realise what that change will do. Making master/maesltorm/asylum weapons buffs beeing counted as set bonus piece buff not as enchantment will now allow to have poison and the weapon buff active at the same time. Who is using posion more often PvP or PvE ?

It's a freaking strong buff for PvP !

Lets consider few options.

Asylum destro = poison + high elemental status effects uptime (minor velnerability ,minor maim , burning)
Asylum 2h = poison+charging ulti while executing (nb's will be able to basicly use Incaps one by one kill after kill)
Maesltorm s&b = poison+2k additional magicka and stamina with each heavy attack after heroic slash (it basicly makes HA builds strong like hell and Heroic slash basicly free to cast)
Master bow = Poison+300 wep dmg on target affected with poison injection

This is only few examples You can imagine the rest. Basicly having poison and weapon buff active at the same time makes some combinations strong like hell, I would say much stronger then 189 wep dmg and if You miss Your wep dmg You can just take off poison and slot wep/spell dmg enchant.

Apart from you could back bar an enchant, get that, plus 189 damage and a poison if you wanted. Again, people don't know what they're talking about.

I don't use poisons, but still miss out on the 189 damage.

Like, if you don't PvP, don't try to explain why it isn't a nerf in PvP.

It really feels like salt from people who couldn't do vma. It's a straight nerf. If you don't think it is, you don't know how to squeeze as much out of a build as can be done.

That's exactly how I see it, and crazy as it would be to assume that people are defending it because they couldn't complete VMA themselves lol

Krayzie · September 2017

Kanar wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Stop with the "it's a slight buff in PvE" and "this is a nerf to PvP only."

The maelstrom weapon changes are a nerf on both sides.

Well 90% of the forum have been calling it a buff. I assume they meant Pve. I didn't think it was.

Well many people don't know what they're talking about. In PvE 2 scenarios are being nerfed for sure: 1.) Peak DPS: losing ability to infuse maelstrom enchant will reduce the top end (min/maxed) DPS. 2.) Anyone who uses DW or 2H maelstrom weapons. Yes, some people do still use those. Maybe not in trials but they can be used in vet dungeons, for solo builds like vMA builds (2H is common here) or dungeon/world boss soloing soloing, etc.

That's the ignorant sad part of this, people just don't know what they're talking about most likely cause they have no idea how VMA weapons work and when you tell them how and that they're wrong they get upset.

xskinzcity wrote: »

OP said everything that was on my mind.

How come the people arguing that this is a buff post once and when people ask them to ellaborate or explain why it's a nerf they're just gone lol

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Me neither

You don't see the difference between a weapon that gives a constant bonus to a useful stat and a weapon that doesn't? Did you read the whole OP? Some of us grinded for Maelstrom and Master weapons JUST so we could have that set bonus in that slot. I couldn't even tell you what the actual enchantment is on a VMA staff... that's how little I care about it. That set bonus that you think is no big deal is the ONLY thing that makes a 5-3-2-1 build competitive with a 5-5-1 or 5/4-5/4-2 build. Willpower/Agility builds were already just barely viable, now they're dead.

These people don't see the difference because they have no idea what they're talking about and don't belong in this thread. Which is exactly why I stated "PVP Players" in the thread title.

Good to see so many people agree, it was almost like I was crazy stating removing 189 wd/sd was a nerf.

Skinzz · September 2017

I use vma weapons for literally all my current pve/pvp builds just for the weapon/spell damage... it allows me to run sustain builds with just enough damage. Definitely affected by this change.

Waffennacht · September 2017

Good

Edit: I felt how vMA worked, as described by OP, to be too good for too few players. It *gasp* adds to balance!

Destyran · September 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Umm why are you so salty over vma weapons? They deserve to be best single weapons ingame along with vdsa which i think has better staves and bow for pvp.

Poison enchants can go on any weapon dont see why you're mad about that.

189 spell dmg is what you are mad about? Cmon im sick of people crying for nerfs l2P man or get the weapon yourself if you want to be on a level playing field. Even tho you are ignoring the fact that the person using the vma staff cant use 5-5-2 for set combo so that sucks.

I use a cam staff for the stun on magplat as toppling is trash and I don’t really like Invigorating drain. The spell damage is a huge nerf.

Krayzie · September 2017

Destyran wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Umm why are you so salty over vma weapons? They deserve to be best single weapons ingame along with vdsa which i think has better staves and bow for pvp.

Poison enchants can go on any weapon dont see why you're mad about that.

189 spell dmg is what you are mad about? Cmon im sick of people crying for nerfs l2P man or get the weapon yourself if you want to be on a level playing field. Even tho you are ignoring the fact that the person using the vma staff cant use 5-5-2 for set combo so that sucks.

I use a cam staff for the stun on magplat as toppling is trash and I don’t really like Invigorating drain. The spell damage is a huge nerf.

He's calling a 189 damage nerf a l2p issue and hasn't commented since and multiple people have quoted him lol

Just a one hit wonder like everyone else that doesn't know what they're talking about.

Destruent · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Stop with the "it's a slight buff in PvE" and "this is a nerf to PvP only."

The maelstrom weapon changes are a nerf on both sides.

Well 90% of the forum have been calling it a buff. I assume they meant Pve. I didn't think it was.

It is a buff for PvE bc an infused fire/lightning/poison etc enchant is worth more DPS than 189 Spell/wep-dmg (especially when you have that weapon on your offbar).

Takes-No-Prisoner · September 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Me neither

You don't see the difference between a weapon that gives a constant bonus to a useful stat and a weapon that doesn't? Did you read the whole OP? Some of us grinded for Maelstrom and Master weapons JUST so we could have that set bonus in that slot. I couldn't even tell you what the actual enchantment is on a VMA staff... that's how little I care about it. That set bonus that you think is no big deal is the ONLY thing that makes a 5-3-2-1 build competitive with a 5-5-1 or 5/4-5/4-2 build. Willpower/Agility builds were already just barely viable, now they're dead.

It's a small percentage of damage PvP wise. Wasn't enough to validate subjecting myself to running it period.

Krayzie wrote: »

These people don't see the difference because they have no idea what they're talking about and don't belong in this thread. Which is exactly why I stated "PVP Players" in the thread title.

Good to see so many people agree, it was almost like I was crazy stating removing 189 wd/sd was a nerf.

Listen to yourself type here kiddo, I stated in another thread I wasn't keen on the idea of the 189weap/spell dmg removal on the basis that the content needed to acquire the gear was not trivial in the slightest. At the end of the day, all I want is more accessibility to get special shiny weapons, which looks like what we're getting in the next update(though PvP was overlooked again). vMA weapon nerf was a long time coming though. Those like yourself, who didn't anticipate this nerf coming need to step back and think more along the lines of what's to come in the future, cause MMOs are always in a constant state of change.

Drakkdjinn · September 2017

They were "nerfed" so BiS players have to buy the next chapter to get vMA 2.0 weaps. /thread

Grevaris_Elluin · September 2017

xskinzcity wrote: »

I could care less about the enchantment. I've been using VMA weapons as part of my PvP builds for years now. The WD/SD was the only reason I used these weapons.

Couldn't.

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

They were "nerfed" so BiS players have to buy the next chapter to get vMA 2.0 weaps. /thread

PvE vMA destro is still better for DPS. Asylum might be OK on some classes for extra burning, who knows. Good in PvP

Resto is trash.

DW is ok, but not worth slots.

S/B is good in PvP, not worth in PvE

2H is good in both

Bow is bad

Takes-No-Prisoner · September 2017

.

ak_pvp wrote: »

PvE vMA destro is still better for DPS. Asylum might be OK on some classes for extra burning, who knows. Good in PvP

Resto is trash.

DW is ok, but not worth slots.

S/B is good in PvP, not worth in PvE

2H is good in both

Bow is bad

Me personally, I would prefer PvE got weapon sets that catered to their stuff and PvP got weapon sets that are for them.

montiferus · September 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

I could care less about the enchantment. I've been using VMA weapons as part of my PvP builds for years now. The WD/SD was the only reason I used these weapons.

Couldn't.

How would you know? Are you a mind reader?

Perhaps he could care even less.

Grevaris_Elluin · September 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

.

ak_pvp wrote: »

PvE vMA destro is still better for DPS. Asylum might be OK on some classes for extra burning, who knows. Good in PvP

Resto is trash.

DW is ok, but not worth slots.

S/B is good in PvP, not worth in PvE

2H is good in both

Bow is bad

Me personally, I would prefer PvE got weapon sets that catered to their stuff and PvP got weapon sets that are for them.

Me too. Just pointing out master/vma/asylum got their share of uses.

Betsararie · September 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

lol, 189 weapon/spell damage is a huge amount.

Lrn2math

Krayzie · September 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Me neither

You don't see the difference between a weapon that gives a constant bonus to a useful stat and a weapon that doesn't? Did you read the whole OP? Some of us grinded for Maelstrom and Master weapons JUST so we could have that set bonus in that slot. I couldn't even tell you what the actual enchantment is on a VMA staff... that's how little I care about it. That set bonus that you think is no big deal is the ONLY thing that makes a 5-3-2-1 build competitive with a 5-5-1 or 5/4-5/4-2 build. Willpower/Agility builds were already just barely viable, now they're dead.

It's a small percentage of damage PvP wise. Wasn't enough to validate subjecting myself to running it period.

Krayzie wrote: »

These people don't see the difference because they have no idea what they're talking about and don't belong in this thread. Which is exactly why I stated "PVP Players" in the thread title.

Good to see so many people agree, it was almost like I was crazy stating removing 189 wd/sd was a nerf.

Listen to yourself type here kiddo, I stated in another thread I wasn't keen on the idea of the 189weap/spell dmg removal on the basis that the content needed to acquire the gear was not trivial in the slightest. At the end of the day, all I want is more accessibility to get special shiny weapons, which looks like what we're getting in the next update(though PvP was overlooked again). vMA weapon nerf was a long time coming though. Those like yourself, who didn't anticipate this nerf coming need to step back and think more along the lines of what's to come in the future, cause MMOs are always in a constant state of change.

Yea I'm sure this was to be an anticipated maneuver, there was so much foresight.

Qbiken · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

lol, 189 weapon/spell damage is a huge amount.

Lrn2math

It´s not going to kill your build in PvP anyway. People act like this change will end PvP and ruin the entire game. The rant about the change to vMA weapons is over-exaggerating if anything.

#l2adapt

Sharee · September 2017

Krayzie wrote: »

Please don't move this to the PVP section of the forums because the attention it will get here is so much more significant then that dead board.

There was an EXTREME amount of confusion displayed by PVE only players on why the VMA weapon change was a nerf. It was honestly unbelievable as 90% of the posters didn't seem to understand how VMA weapons work, such as equipping a poison and having the enchant suppressed with the passive 189 weapon damage which didn't count as part of the enchantment thus wasn't suppressed and a backbar weapon damage glyph to add to that 189(that's why VMA weapons are extremely beneficial in PVP).

This is absolutely a grotesque and sickening decision by Zenimax.

How many of you grinded VMA for the 189 passive damage AND NOT THE GLYPH?

Dunno about you, but that bolded part sounds like an exploit to me.

Does that 189 weapon damage disappear if you enchant the VMA weapon with a different glyph? It does, right? Then it is part of the original vma glyph, and should be suppressed along with the rest of the glyph when the weapon is poisoned. So this not so much a nerf as a fix.

Trashs1 · September 2017

im 100% agreeing with the op... keep the spell/weapon dmg on them and dont make them worthless...

Brrrofski · September 2017

Sharee wrote: »

Krayzie wrote: »

Please don't move this to the PVP section of the forums because the attention it will get here is so much more significant then that dead board.

There was an EXTREME amount of confusion displayed by PVE only players on why the VMA weapon change was a nerf. It was honestly unbelievable as 90% of the posters didn't seem to understand how VMA weapons work, such as equipping a poison and having the enchant suppressed with the passive 189 weapon damage which didn't count as part of the enchantment thus wasn't suppressed and a backbar weapon damage glyph to add to that 189(that's why VMA weapons are extremely beneficial in PVP).

This is absolutely a grotesque and sickening decision by Zenimax.

How many of you grinded VMA for the 189 passive damage AND NOT THE GLYPH?

Dunno about you, but that bolded part sounds like an exploit to me.

Does that 189 weapon damage disappear if you enchant the VMA weapon with a different glyph? It does, right? Then it is part of the original vma glyph, and should be suppressed along with the rest of the glyph when the weapon is poisoned. So this not so much a nerf as a fix.

Another salty person who couldn't do vma.

It's not an exploit. It's a benefit to being able to actually play the game and complete difficult content unlike 90% of the player base.

Sharee · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Krayzie wrote: »

Please don't move this to the PVP section of the forums because the attention it will get here is so much more significant then that dead board.

There was an EXTREME amount of confusion displayed by PVE only players on why the VMA weapon change was a nerf. It was honestly unbelievable as 90% of the posters didn't seem to understand how VMA weapons work, such as equipping a poison and having the enchant suppressed with the passive 189 weapon damage which didn't count as part of the enchantment thus wasn't suppressed and a backbar weapon damage glyph to add to that 189(that's why VMA weapons are extremely beneficial in PVP).

This is absolutely a grotesque and sickening decision by Zenimax.

How many of you grinded VMA for the 189 passive damage AND NOT THE GLYPH?

Dunno about you, but that bolded part sounds like an exploit to me.

Does that 189 weapon damage disappear if you enchant the VMA weapon with a different glyph? It does, right? Then it is part of the original vma glyph, and should be suppressed along with the rest of the glyph when the weapon is poisoned. So this not so much a nerf as a fix.

Another salty person who couldn't do vma.

It's not an exploit. It's a benefit to being able to actually play the game and complete difficult content unlike 90% of the player base.

And here come the ad-hominem attacks. How unexpected.

Poisons are supposed to suppress enchantments. Not parts of enchantments. This is not debatable. If removing the enchant from the sword removes the damage bonus, then the damage bonus is part of the enchant, and as such should be suppressed by poisons.

The only reason why ZOS likely didn't squash this long ago is the fact that like you correctly pointed out 90% of playerbase cannot complete the content needed to get these weapons, so the issue wasn't widespread, and thus low-priority.