The Thing about the VMA-Weapons-nerf...

Aisle9 · September 2017

I don't mind the change, to be honest, making them 1 piece set bonus it quite good for PvE as you can now re-enchant them and keep the set effect.

The OP-ness of keeping the spell/weapon power bonus or the max magicka from the master inferno would be easily solved by getting them with a unique enchantment that gives the same amount of spell/weapon damage or max magicka, which is something you can't add by crafting a glyph since you can't make spell power or max magicka glyphs for weapons, changing, effectively, nothing with the weapon.

They would retain their uniqueness and utility in PvP, you could still change the enchantment for PvE while retaining the set bonus, and everyone would be happy...

amir412 · September 2017

I believe its all part of ZOS propegenda to lure players to buy the new DLC / SUB, to get by far better weapons.

Grabmoore · September 2017

So this only nerfs poison builds. That's actually a good thing, because this garbage doesn't belong into PvP anyways. PvPing in small groups became a torture these days, just because those 40 men zergs love cost poisons...

Just enchant a daedric glyph and use the vMA enchant how they are supposed to be used, as an enhancement to an ability.

Krayzie · September 2017

amir412 wrote: »

I believe its all part of ZOS propegenda to lure players to buy the new DLC / SUB, to get by far better weapons.

agreed

Krayzie · September 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

So this only nerfs poison builds. That's actually a good thing, because this garbage doesn't belong into PvP anyways. PvPing in small groups became a torture these days, just because those 40 men zergs love cost poisons...

Just enchant a daedric glyph and use the vMA enchant how they are supposed to be used, as an enhancement to an ability.

There's no reason to run staves and only builds that use crit rush have the slightest reason to use VMA weapons now.

Krayzie · September 2017

Aisle9 wrote: »

I don't mind the change, to be honest, making them 1 piece set bonus it quite good for PvE as you can now re-enchant them and keep the set effect.

The OP-ness of keeping the spell/weapon power bonus or the max magicka from the master inferno would be easily solved by getting them with a unique enchantment that gives the same amount of spell/weapon damage or max magicka, which is something you can't add by crafting a glyph since you can't make spell power or max magicka glyphs for weapons, changing, effectively, nothing with the weapon.

They would retain their uniqueness and utility in PvP, you could still change the enchantment for PvE while retaining the set bonus, and everyone would be happy...

The only reason you'd be running a VMA weapon in PVP after the update would be for some off brand non min-maxed build or purely for bragging rights.

ookami007 · September 2017

This change actually makes you REALLY consider scrapping vMA weapons completely. Let's take a typical DW setup. You can have two 5 piece set bonuses and 1 two piece monster set bonus. If you were using vMA, you were dropping a 5 piece bonus or a monster set bonus.

Now you really have to weight it. In some cases, vMA will no longer be BiS.

Morgul667 · September 2017

As you can add a new glyph on it, wont the Staff be equivalent to what it was before ? lose some spell damage, add a glyphe, pretty much same no ?

f047ys3v3n · September 2017

The Thing about the VMA-Weapons-nerf...

Is that it is basically a *** move that will accomplish nothing except to *** off some very dedicated players.

It is true that vMA weapons were BIS for most things. The reason for this was not primarily the special "ability enhancing enchant" but rather the simple 1.5x power 1pc set bonus. Some of those ability enhancing enchants were good (2H in PVP, dual wield), some were merely ok (destro staff, bow, and resto), but they all only buffed one thing and you have 5 abilities and an ulti on each bar. Was the ability altering part of the enchants even as good alone as a simple 1 pc set bonus? We are about to find out but I expect that the answer is actually going to be no in most cases. Hell, my flame staff was only worth 1.5k dps vs. just having an extra 1pc bonus and that was prior to morrowind when you could get many more attacks in. I think this will be similar for most of the weapons whose abilities you use. As for PVP and weapons who's abilities you don't directly use. These are no different than non-set drops now.

What I am saying is that vMA weapons were no longer the powerful things they once had been (nerf to dual wield, removal of triple proc lightning), and that this nerf makes them not just weaker but actually bad choices in most cases. Since there wasn't an OP issue really all ZOS has accomplished here is to *** off people who worked for the things as balance will not be much effected. I should note that changing the mechanic of these from an "enchant" to a 1 pc set bonus is actually a good move as the enchant thing was strange. To compensate for the addition of a normal enchant the non-ability altering part of the buff probably should have been adjusted from 1.5x strength to merely 1x strength and the ability altering part might also have needed a little adjusting down in a few cases. These changes instead make most of these weapons paper weights to the people who worked for them and are not about to use something that is clearly not BIS.

Good job Wrobel, way to find a change with a huge downside and no upside at all.

Feanor · September 2017

Morgul667 wrote: »

As you can add a new glyph on it, wont the Staff be equivalent to what it was before ? lose some spell damage, add a glyphe, pretty much same no ?

That's the point though - I can do that with any random staff (and choose the trait and style on top of that). What made the weapons unique in PvP was the base 189 SD or WD it added, not the enchant.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

So this only nerfs poison builds. That's actually a good thing, because this garbage doesn't belong into PvP anyways. PvPing in small groups became a torture these days, just because those 40 men zergs love cost poisons...

Just enchant a daedric glyph and use the vMA enchant how they are supposed to be used, as an enhancement to an ability.

No, it doesn't. I don't use poisons. I don't agree with poisons.

It nerfs anyone using a staff or 2h in PvP. With or without poisons.

amir412 · September 2017

Krayzie wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

So this only nerfs poison builds. That's actually a good thing, because this garbage doesn't belong into PvP anyways. PvPing in small groups became a torture these days, just because those 40 men zergs love cost poisons...

Just enchant a daedric glyph and use the vMA enchant how they are supposed to be used, as an enhancement to an ability.

There's no reason to run staves and only builds that use crit rush have the slightest reason to use VMA weapons now.

lel i tried using crit rush, still finding myself flying to heaven.
and btw, u can still macro slice in lag.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

Krayzie wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

I believe its all part of ZOS propegenda to lure players to buy the new DLC / SUB, to get by far better weapons.

agreed

Thing is guys, the new trial weapons are not that good. So there is no there there with this sort of talk.

Cage_Lizardman · September 2017

Despite reading this thread I really don't get why (some) pvpers are so annoyed at this either. It's a fairly small nerf that affects everyone equally. Is it just people not liking change?

Feanor · September 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

Despite reading this thread I really don't get why (some) pvpers are so annoyed at this either. It's a fairly small nerf that affects everyone equally. Is it just people not liking change?

No. It's people not liking that all their work with vMA got rendered obsolete for no real reason. Once again: Everything is just dandy in PvE. But in PvP a random weapon is just as valuable now.

SodanTok · September 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

Despite reading this thread I really don't get why (some) pvpers are so annoyed at this either. It's a fairly small nerf that affects everyone equally. Is it just people not liking change?

If you did not use these weapons or not even bothered to do VMA for them you lost nothing. If you did VMA, many times, to get these weapons and used them in your build for nearly past year and now they are totally useless I dont think I was affected equally.

Same goes for all the DW folks with monster sets. Nothing changed for them, but I am losing access to monster set with this change

So... it is not really small nerf and it is not affecting equally. From my point of view, it is the biggest nerf I ever received.

Cage_Lizardman · September 2017

If you dragged yourself through vMA to get a 189 damage bonus you're either
1. enjoying it, in which case the time wasn't wasted.
2. damn good at the game and it wasn't very hard for you.
3. an idiot, since a 189 damage bonus is mostly irrelevant in pvp.

SodanTok · September 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

If you dragged yourself through vMA to get a 189 damage bonus you're either
1. enjoying it, in which case the time wasn't wasted.
2. damn good at the game and it wasn't very hard for you.
3. an idiot, since a 189 damage bonus is mostly irrelevant in pvp.

189 damage is irrelevant only if you are already too bad to utilize it
which I guess checks the number two

Feanor · September 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

If you dragged yourself through vMA to get a 189 damage bonus you're either
1. enjoying it, in which case the time wasn't wasted.
2. damn good at the game and it wasn't very hard for you.
3. an idiot, since a 189 damage bonus is mostly irrelevant in pvp.

Translation: I never completed vMA and so I don't care.

Aisle9 · September 2017

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

Despite reading this thread I really don't get why (some) pvpers are so annoyed at this either. It's a fairly small nerf that affects everyone equally. Is it just people not liking change?

Because it's not a small nerf, it's a pretty significant one. a vMA 2H gives you more weapon power than a gold weapon power glyph for your ring, and doesn't require you to proc it by attacking someone (as it would with a berserker glyph). Also, it's retained if you use poisons.

To that, add the fact that a bunch of people spent months to try to find that one weapon with that one good trait...

Scratch that, there are people that spent years to do that. Hell, I'm still farming it for that one bow...

It's like spending money to buy TF2 and then getting a hat after it goes F2P.

For PvE is not a big deal, because you can change the enchant and it will still be viable, but PvP people will get shafted, twice: first because they had to farm vMA to get that, instead of doing the content they like, and second because the weapon will effectively be a portable trophy with no real function, like a Rubedite greatsword made with a fancy motif.

Feanor · September 2017

@Aisle9

Well said. I think though we'd need to hammer the issue into the heads with a vMA maul so that people finally understand. Too bad it's nerfed though.

luen79rwb17_ESO · September 2017

I expect they revert this nerf during the PTS cycle

Arkangeloski · September 2017

What if... instead you keep your weapon (with the original enchant) you get to keep the 189 bonus, then if you decide to change it later to put your own flavor to it then it looses the 189 gains (x) effect and you get to keep bonus set proc.

Everybody happy