Can we talk about the bad sorc balancing?

NBrookus · September 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Overload/resto are probably the most rare builds in the game. Im not gonna say the build is useless but i dont see it being any good. Lining up a burst with it requires time you dont have and its a pain, with all the snb ults u can kill urself, switching to overload bar every few seconds in the middle of the fight is gonna get you killed more times than not and playing with it not just for a buff bar (which is the whole point of overload/resto) will require to slot important skills there too so u can stay alive which still means that u have limited space to put everything. Its just a very niche build that will work in very niche scenarios.

As someone who runs an overload/resto build, all of this is truth. In reality I have less access to skills because I'm on my overload bar and switching in and out wastes GCDs and often gets you killed. And if you run out of overload or have to pop that resto ult, things start to look very, very grim.

IMO, it's a high risk playstyle in exchange for exceptionally lethal damage solo/very small scale. Risk escalates when you have no heal and only one shield on a bar with at most 4 damage skills. In that respect, it's balanced... but there are very good reasons why so few sorcs play that kind of setup.

Resto is ridiculously strong, but it's not a sorc skill.

WaltherCarraway · September 2017

#dragonknightlivesmatter

Twohothardware · September 2017

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Feanor · September 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Overload/resto are probably the most rare builds in the game. Im not gonna say the build is useless but i dont see it being any good. Lining up a burst with it requires time you dont have and its a pain, with all the snb ults u can kill urself, switching to overload bar every few seconds in the middle of the fight is gonna get you killed more times than not and playing with it not just for a buff bar (which is the whole point of overload/resto) will require to slot important skills there too so u can stay alive which still means that u have limited space to put everything. Its just a very niche build that will work in very niche scenarios.

As someone who runs an overload/resto build, all of this is truth. In reality I have less access to skills because I'm on my overload bar and switching in and out wastes GCDs and often gets you killed. And if you run out of overload or have to pop that resto ult, things start to look very, very grim.

IMO, it's a high risk playstyle in exchange for exceptionally lethal damage solo/very small scale. Risk escalates when you have no heal and only one shield on a bar with at most 4 damage skills. In that respect, it's balanced... but there are very good reasons why so few sorcs play that kind of setup.

Resto is ridiculously strong, but it's not a sorc skill.

On top of it Overload is one of the clunkiest and buggiest skills in the game. It's not a rare occurrence that you get locked in the overload bar when you desperately try to switch to get the life saving heal...

GeorgeBlack · September 2017

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

Enslaved · September 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

Derra · September 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

pieratsos · September 2017

Twohothardware wrote: »

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Or actually make hardened and harness not stuck? You do realise that this is the problem right? Giving shields a cost increase similar to streak doesnt make it balanced. It effectively removes sorcs and light armor from the game. You'd actually have a clue about what u are talking about if u actually played the class.

Sorcs and NB are not like templars and DKs. They shouldnt be able to get away with never having to wear heavy armor? No, they shouldnt have to wear heavy armor. They are not designed for it and they dont synergize with it.

And sorcs absolutely need crit resistance. Stop stating ur idiotic biased bs as facts. They are not. You cant keep shields 100% up. That would mean sorcs never die. You need crit resistance cause when your shields go down, and they will go down, you will be blown to pieces in 1 second with zero crit resistance.

pieratsos · September 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I mean seriously? Sorc, the class that has to give up very little for tankiness, mobility and damage, now is the tied best CCer in the game. I don't think they are god mode, burst is manageable, and I don't want every bit of it nerfed like pleebs, but they are definitely the most overpowered class now.

Let papa go through comparisons:

Streak: No counters until the sorc has already crossed the border and started a new life. This would be fine as a mobility based defense, but then they can facetank DK style without any block like slows. IMO i'd reduce the cost of streak and mines, but add a cooldown so its more usable in battle to reposition and less spammable, it would require some planning in where to use the streak.

Which brings me to... Shield stacking, its definitely possible to keep shields up constantly, as it has none of the penalties of block/roll or no shield defile, no regen blocks or repetitive cost increases. Also none of the counters, where is the attacks that goes through only shields (Oblivion/bleed ignores everything, cost poisons affect everyone) One of its main counters is in a set, great if you want to counter a sorc, nope, you might decimate the sorc, but you become potato to everyone without shields. The CP tree against shields gets a half mark, it doesn't fully counter them, more so depends on your damage. Something like siphoner to counterract the extra shield strength from bastion

How about, conversion costing more to interrupt than to be interrupted. Nope, too difficult to add some risk/reward to it. Too hard for FOTYers.

Also the auto execute, DK/warden get effectively nothing. Why?

If the rune prison change is added, then its just incredibly silly. Discuss.

I dont get it, if sorcerers are so OP , why are less ppl playing that class? And i have a magsorc myself, when a stam pvper gets up close to me and start spamming uppercut on me im pretty much screwed, so i for one thinks the rune prison buff is a good and fair thing,

I can answer that question...

Sorcerers are not now, nor have they EVER been, the "meta" in ESO PvP. NEVER, EVER, EVER.

Despite all the nonsense you read on the forums, there have only really been two eras in Cyrodiil: the 2014 Magicka-DK-Vamp era and the later Stamina-Dodge-and-Burst era which continues until today. Everything else you read about is a niche build or a pipe dream.

I love ESO, but I am realistic about its playerbase. The vast majority of PvPers will intuitively flock to whichever builds they perceive to be most effective, and Mag Sorc is NOT that build. That's not to say that Mag Sorc is BAD... I love playing Mag Sorc, and I kill guys all the time with it. But month after month, year after year, hard-hitting Stamina builds have dominated PvP ever since Stamina got buffed after the forums complained about "sticks and pajamas" for ESO's first year.

The end result has been that Cyrodiil is full of Stam builds that can pump out insane amounts of damage while seemingly taking none. These are the guys who can tank 10 players by running (and rolling) around trees and rocks, NOT Sorcs. Even after the nerf to proc sets, even after the cost nerfs to dodge rolling and blocking, these guys still dominate. Nothing ZOS has done to buff or nerf Sorcs has changed this reality one iota.

So why do you hear so much complaining about Sorcs on the forums? Three reasons:

1) Hardly anyone plays them in Cyrodiil, so there are plenty of non-Sorcs out there to do the complaining. I can go HOURS without seeing an enemy Sorc in the Imperial City, which is full of scummy, sneaking Gankblades and unkillable, heavy-armored DKs and Templars.

2) Thanks to pet buffs, Sorcs have *SOMETIMES* been overpowered in PvE, so non-Sorc PvEers jump on the "Nerf Sorc!" bandwagon.

3) Sorcerers are really, really good at one thing: killing BAD players. Curse, Frags and Fury is a great combo against someone who doesn't dodge, block or heal. Whodathunkit?

Rofl, what are you talking about, sorc and nightblade are both the most played classes in pvp right now; they have been for a very long time. Sorcs have pretty much been top dog since 1.6 and haven't fallen from that at any point.

By the way, saying silly *** like Sorcs are only good at killing bad players gets old. It's a freakin cop out to explain away the fact that the person behind the sorc is being carried most of all by game mechanics. The class is idiot proof and reward scrubs for being able to not eat paint chips while playing a video game.

Nightblade and sorc killquests are by far the quickest and easiest to turn in. For every sorc getting kills there are 3 just dying repeatedly

It's easier to finish those simply because you can't throw a rock more then 3 feet in cyrodiil without hitting those two classes

Bad sorcs and NB are by far the easiest kills and thats not a debate.

Enslaved · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

pieratsos · September 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

Magicka warden is bad? Wut?
You are mistaking high skill cap classes with bad classes. They are not the same thing. Good magicka wardens are monsters.

DeHei · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

For sure, you are right at the point, that medium armor need a buff too. But before they should have the classbalance at priority NR.1!

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

They are very good in PvP only. In PvE you cant deal much more damage then 30K DPS... thats nothing in comparison to all other classes!
As healer or tank wardens are really good.

Feanor · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

DeHei · September 2017

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Derra · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

For sure, you are right at the point, that medium armor need a buff too. But before they should have the classbalance at priority NR.1!

I see all of the classes you state beat sorcs very regularly in duels - i really don´t want to see what a templar or DK could do with more cc or a finisher respectively. They´re already pretty dominant.

Have you tried playing a sorc in pvp and tried to make a build that fits in everything for all situations - that also is still able to kill an opponent?

Templar DK and warden needing an escape is debateable. Mistform does pretty good if you don´t miss the point when you need to start moving. Once people dogpile you it´s too late.

Feanor · September 2017

And you think they drop HA when they get an escape? I don't think so. They'll just be even harder to kill. HA just has no drawbacks at the moment.

DeHei · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

For sure, you are right at the point, that medium armor need a buff too. But before they should have the classbalance at priority NR.1!

I see all of the classes you state beat sorcs very regularly in duels - i really don´t want to see what a templar or DK could do with more cc or a finisher respectively. They´re already pretty dominant.

Have you tried playing a sorc in pvp and tried to make a build that fits in everything for all situations - that also is still able to kill an opponent?

Templar DK and warden needing an escape is debateable. Mistform does pretty good if you don´t miss the point when you need to start moving. Once people dogpile you it´s too late.

I can beat all classes, but against good nightblades and magicka sorcs i dont have a chance with my magicka templar. I just win, when they do a mistake! Yesterday i duelled a good magicka sorc and dont won just 1 duell from 10...
When they would change our useless skills (for me templar have 4 useless skills), we just had more options. For templar its really much more difficult to choose the right skills for a build as a sorc. Sorcs can use 15 Skills with there overloadbar... What is this? When i search all things, which are very strong at sorcs my list would be very long!
What would be the problem, when other classes have more options too?

Enslaved · September 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

Magicka warden is bad? Wut?
You are mistaking high skill cap classes with bad classes. They are not the same thing. Good magicka wardens are monsters.

Now I should enter another "discussion" with you where you will do your best to prove mSorc is weakest class in game, and mWarden is complete P2W op af beast. Sorry mate, I find your post complete 0/10 trolling bs, there is zero benefit interacting with you. Welcome to the list.

Feanor · September 2017

@Enslaved

I suggest you fight @Mojomonkeyman for example and then tell us if you find Warden to be weak still. It's absolutely disgusting on a strong player.

DeHei · September 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@Enslaved

I suggest you fight @Mojomonkeyman for example and then tell us if you find Warden to be weak still. It's absolutely disgusting on a strong player.

This are 2 things. In PvP Warden are very strong. In PvE for damage you cant use them, there they are really weak..

Enslaved · September 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@Enslaved

I suggest you fight @Mojomonkeyman for example and then tell us if you find Warden to be weak still. It's absolutely disgusting on a strong player.

I am pretty sure there are a bunch of op players on any class. That still does not prove all classes are on even grounds, or that they require same amount of skill. Do you agree to a concept of classes being balanced all over the player skill base, from floor to ceiling? Also, would be nice to see best players of all of these classes vs eachother at some point.

pieratsos · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

DeHei · September 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

WreckfulAbandon · September 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

Magicka warden is bad? Wut?
You are mistaking high skill cap classes with bad classes. They are not the same thing. Good magicka wardens are monsters.

Now I should enter another "discussion" with you where you will do your best to prove mSorc is weakest class in game, and mWarden is complete P2W op af beast. Sorry mate, I find your post complete 0/10 trolling bs, there is zero benefit interacting with you. Welcome to the list.

He's right. mWardens don't have as much burst as mSorc but they are extremely versatile and survivable. And for your other point, stamplars can output a ton of damage. They can easily dodge roll most frags and purge curses. It's actually a really tough fight for a mSorc to fight a good stamplar.

Most of the 1vXing that is going on these days is by stamina classes. It's been that way for awhile too. Even with shieldstacking. So obviously other people are able to do better than just cope with this supposed magicka sorc supremacy.

Feanor · September 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Enslaved

I suggest you fight @Mojomonkeyman for example and then tell us if you find Warden to be weak still. It's absolutely disgusting on a strong player.

I am pretty sure there are a bunch of op players on any class. That still does not prove all classes are on even grounds, or that they require same amount of skill. Do you agree to a concept of classes being balanced all over the player skill base, from floor to ceiling? Also, would be nice to see best players of all of these classes vs eachother at some point.

Sure, the difficulty on playing a class differs. In ascending order I would say Sorc -> Templar -> Warden -> DK -> NB. Sorc is very forgiving for beginners, but not easier to master than the other classes. It's hard to achieve balance though if you want classes to have distinctive skills. Not all classes should have everything, I loathe the ongoing homogenization in the name of balance. The problem is there is no incremental fine tuning in small steps but only sweeping broad changes.

pieratsos · September 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

Magicka warden is bad? Wut?
You are mistaking high skill cap classes with bad classes. They are not the same thing. Good magicka wardens are monsters.

Now I should enter another "discussion" with you where you will do your best to prove mSorc is weakest class in game, and mWarden is complete P2W op af beast. Sorry mate, I find your post complete 0/10 trolling bs, there is zero benefit interacting with you. Welcome to the list.

This is what i told you before.

pieratsos wrote: »

You can complain about shieldstacking, curse double explosion, endless fury timer, implosion and dark deal/conversion. Those are valid points that would encourage an actual conversation regarding sorcs and balance. But when threads begin by calling streak a spammable, OP or anything of the sort and even go as far as asking for a nerf to it by giving it a cooldown then no one is going to take you seriously cause you have no clue about what you are talking about and the only responses you are going to get is "this is another nerf sorc thread", "L2P" and generally people being ironic. And rightfully so.

But im trying to prove sorc is the weakest class in the game? Lol. Joke is on you mate.

You are right tho, no point discussing with clueless people like you on subjects they know nothing about.

pieratsos · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Enslaved

I suggest you fight @Mojomonkeyman for example and then tell us if you find Warden to be weak still. It's absolutely disgusting on a strong player.

This are 2 things. In PvP Warden are very strong. In PvE for damage you cant use them, there they are really weak..

This is a thread about PVP and the one who said they are weak meant for PVP too.

Derra · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

For sure, you are right at the point, that medium armor need a buff too. But before they should have the classbalance at priority NR.1!

I see all of the classes you state beat sorcs very regularly in duels - i really don´t want to see what a templar or DK could do with more cc or a finisher respectively. They´re already pretty dominant.

Have you tried playing a sorc in pvp and tried to make a build that fits in everything for all situations - that also is still able to kill an opponent?

Templar DK and warden needing an escape is debateable. Mistform does pretty good if you don´t miss the point when you need to start moving. Once people dogpile you it´s too late.

I can beat all classes, but against good nightblades and magicka sorcs i dont have a chance with my magicka templar. I just win, when they do a mistake! Yesterday i duelled a good magicka sorc and dont won just 1 duell from 10...
When they would change our useless skills (for me templar have 4 useless skills), we just had more options. For templar its really much more difficult to choose the right skills for a build as a sorc. Sorcs can use 15 Skills with there overloadbar... What is this? When i search all things, which are very strong at sorcs my list would be very long!
What would be the problem, when other classes have more options too?

Wait so you´re telling me now that having basically no build diversity as a sorc is a good thing that makes choosing skills easier ._.?

I agree though that your personal built is somewhat ill fitted for fighting sorcs - that´s just the nature of things if you go the route of having 2 groundbased aoes against a relatively mobile ranged class - same goes for NB if they just stay maxrange. In general a templar with 1h+shield should atleast be able to always draw against a sorc because you can purge curse. There is not much left in sorcs arsenal when they loose their delayed burst.

If the sorc uses overload be happy - they either don´t have resto ult or they don´t have attro unless they´re bugabusing a 3rd utlimate on overload bar

pieratsos · September 2017

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Yeah you could get more survivability if you could use any skill you want. But u are limited to what you can use. And no, ditching resto ult or atro for overload just so u can use 2-3 more skills is doing the exact opposite of giving you survivability.

If you want to kill sorcs put on heavy armor and watch them tickle you. They cant take ur pressure, they will constantly have to streak you and shield spam to stay alive and eventually run out of magicka

Zer0oo · September 2017

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

Well. Stamina templar is in worst spot right now, of all stamina classes. Same is with magicka warden. Would't mind seeing Zos buff these for start.

Magicka warden is bad? Wut?
You are mistaking high skill cap classes with bad classes. They are not the same thing. Good magicka wardens are monsters.

Now I should enter another "discussion" with you where you will do your best to prove mSorc is weakest class in game, and mWarden is complete P2W op af beast. Sorry mate, I find your post complete 0/10 trolling bs, there is zero benefit interacting with you. Welcome to the list.

He's right. mWardens don't have as much burst as mSorc but they are extremely versatile and survivable. And for your other point, stamplars can output a ton of damage. They can easily dodge roll most frags and purge curses. It's actually a really tough fight for a mSorc to fight a good stamplar.

Most of the 1vXing that is going on these days is by stamina classes. It's been that way for awhile too. Even with shieldstacking. So obviously other people are able to do better than just cope with this supposed magicka sorc supremacy.

You actually have more burst on a mag warden than mag sorc if build right. (and better sustain and tankyness but you cant run away from zergs

)