Can we talk about the bad sorc balancing?

Biro123

** Edit - messed up the quotes..

But was a response to 'sorcs have everything for all situations.' and 'try Rapid Regen'.


And what else do you use? Honestly, I HAVE tried it - and found it severely lacking without also having a burst-heal. There's a reason rally is so necessary when paired with vigour.
But then it starts getting ridiculous if I do pair it.. 3 slots for heals (RR, surge, ward), 2 for shields, 2 for mobility.. for a so-called offensive class - that an awful lot of bar-space and cooldowns given up to survivability..

This is what it keeps boiling down to. People keep saying sorcs have everything... Well, they don't have heals to speak of, or an anytime without having to rely on them from particular weapons - which really limits build-choices.
They don't have the tankiness vs multiple enemies that DK and Templar can have.

It can look like they have everything... good damage, good burst, good survivability(in small scale), good mobility.. But they don't get all that at once because of the limitations in bar-space and the build decisions you make to support those skill-choices.

Those mobile sorcs you see - the ones tha you can't catch.. those are using high-sustain builds and 2 skill-slots and pots dedicated for mobility. To do that, limits skill selection - and lowers max stats - which, unlike many other classes, on a sorc lowers both attack and defence.. Your standard tankiness relying on primarily blocking/dodging gains in defence when they can sustain it.. Sorc loses defence when they add sustain.

So these highly-mobile sorcs - low damage, low defences.

Or there are those with the huge damage potential.. They may be focussing on burst with DW. They may be using necropotence and pets to boost their stats for more damage. Their burst is scary. Their shields are really strong. But they cannot fit both streak and boundless - so give up the ability to escape. They have poor recov of all stats, and so cannot sustain a fight against anyone who survives their bursts a few times. And they cannot escape when it goes south. These guys are more like honking big turrets, with limited ammo.
But people see the mobility-sorc and seem to think they have the damage/shields of the turret sorcs.. Or they see the turret-sorc and and seem to think they have the sustain and mobility of the mobility-sorc..


TL:DR; Sorc's don't get everything in one package.

DeHei

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Yeah you could get more survivability if you could use any skill you want. But u are limited to what you can use. And no, ditching resto ult or atro for overload just so u can use 2-3 more skills is doing the exact opposite of giving you survivability.

If you want to kill sorcs put on heavy armor and watch them tickle you. They cant take ur pressure, they will constantly have to streak you and shield spam to stay alive and eventually run out of magicka

Sorcs with 2,4k magickareg and more will not go out of magicka i think. They should experienced enough to sustain good enough. I can hold my magicka nearly endless with just 1,7k magickareg for example. My burstheal costs same like all shields.

Biro123 wrote: »

** Edit - messed up the quotes..

But was a response to 'sorcs have everything for all situations.' and 'try Rapid Regen'.


And what else do you use? Honestly, I HAVE tried it - and found it severely lacking without also having a burst-heal. There's a reason rally is so necessary when paired with vigour.
But then it starts getting ridiculous if I do pair it.. 3 slots for heals (RR, surge, ward), 2 for shields, 2 for mobility.. for a so-called offensive class - that an awful lot of bar-space and cooldowns given up to survivability..

This is what it keeps boiling down to. People keep saying sorcs have everything... Well, they don't have heals to speak of, or an anytime without having to rely on them from particular weapons - which really limits build-choices.
They don't have the tankiness vs multiple enemies that DK and Templar can have.

It can look like they have everything... good damage, good burst, good survivability(in small scale), good mobility.. But they don't get all that at once because of the limitations in bar-space and the build decisions you make to support those skill-choices.

Those mobile sorcs you see - the ones tha you can't catch.. those are using high-sustain builds and 2 skill-slots and pots dedicated for mobility. To do that, limits skill selection - and lowers max stats - which, unlike many other classes, on a sorc lowers both attack and defence.. Your standard tankiness relying on primarily blocking/dodging gains in defence when they can sustain it.. Sorc loses defence when they add sustain.

So these highly-mobile sorcs - low damage, low defences.

Or there are those with the huge damage potential.. They may be focussing on burst with DW. They may be using necropotence and pets to boost their stats for more damage. Their burst is scary. Their shields are really strong. But they cannot fit both streak and boundless - so give up the ability to escape. They have poor recov of all stats, and so cannot sustain a fight against anyone who survives their bursts a few times. And they cannot escape when it goes south. These guys are more like honking big turrets, with limited ammo.
But people see the mobility-sorc and seem to think they have the damage/shields of the turret sorcs.. Or they see the turret-sorc and and seem to think they have the sustain and mobility of the mobility-sorc..


TL:DR; Sorc's don't get everything in one package.

Ok, on that point you are right. But i meaned, that i needed to use rapid regen as magicka templar too to have enough survivalbility to compensate, that i dont have an escape or any CC... I just was wrong to explain that. Sry

Yeah nobody has everything in one build... But, when you have 15 instead of just 10 possible slotted skills, you have much more builddiversity. Pls explain me not, that its easier to create a build with just 10 possible skillslots. Sure, when you want a offensive and a defensive ultimate you will have same problemtaic like every other class. BUT you can slot 15 skills

Feanor

You can't slot 15 skills. On the overload bar you have no weapons. Hence you are limited to class skills. The nature of overload leads to needing 1 shield at least and a heal, which only leaves Surge (unreliable HoT) or Matriarch, which you have to summon with a 1.5 sec artificial snare if you're not running a pet build. Then switching to overload bar and back is extremely clunky and gets you often locked in the overload bar. In short, it's totally impractical if you don't have a dedicated pocket healer running with you.

pieratsos

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Yeah you could get more survivability if you could use any skill you want. But u are limited to what you can use. And no, ditching resto ult or atro for overload just so u can use 2-3 more skills is doing the exact opposite of giving you survivability.

If you want to kill sorcs put on heavy armor and watch them tickle you. They cant take ur pressure, they will constantly have to streak you and shield spam to stay alive and eventually run out of magicka

Sorcs with 2,4k magickareg and more will not go out of magicka i think. They should experienced enough to sustain good enough. I can hold my magicka nearly endless with just 1,7k magickareg for example. My burstheal costs same like all shields.

Sure you can sustain. But whats the point if u are doing it at the expense of dmg and cant get a kill anw. And sure ur heal costs the same. But you dont spam the [snip] out of it. Sorcs cant take too much pressure. I am telling you this as a sorc. Put them on the defensive. Shields go down very fast under heavy pressure. Staying put and shieldstacking isnt an option. If they are good sorcs they will kite you with streak to avoid dmg but still. Its either going to be a "draw" or ull kill them.

Your build doesnt do great against sorcs but thats a choice you made. It doesnt mean that the templar as a class cant kill sorcs. When i am on a sorc, templar is literally the only class i have huge troubles fighting. You cant dmg them for [snip] unless they are playing light squishy builds and they have more than enough pressure to kill you if they are good.

[Edited for quote]
[Edited to remove profanity]

Biro123

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Yeah you could get more survivability if you could use any skill you want. But u are limited to what you can use. And no, ditching resto ult or atro for overload just so u can use 2-3 more skills is doing the exact opposite of giving you survivability.

If you want to kill sorcs put on heavy armor and watch them tickle you. They cant take ur pressure, they will constantly have to streak you and shield spam to stay alive and eventually run out of magicka

Sorcs with 2,4k magickareg and more will not go out of magicka i think. They should experienced enough to sustain good enough. I can hold my magicka nearly endless with just 1,7k magickareg for example. My burstheal costs same like all shields.

Biro123 wrote: »

** Edit - messed up the quotes..

But was a response to 'sorcs have everything for all situations.' and 'try Rapid Regen'.


And what else do you use? Honestly, I HAVE tried it - and found it severely lacking without also having a burst-heal. There's a reason rally is so necessary when paired with vigour.
But then it starts getting ridiculous if I do pair it.. 3 slots for heals (RR, surge, ward), 2 for shields, 2 for mobility.. for a so-called offensive class - that an awful lot of bar-space and cooldowns given up to survivability..

This is what it keeps boiling down to. People keep saying sorcs have everything... Well, they don't have heals to speak of, or an anytime without having to rely on them from particular weapons - which really limits build-choices.
They don't have the tankiness vs multiple enemies that DK and Templar can have.

It can look like they have everything... good damage, good burst, good survivability(in small scale), good mobility.. But they don't get all that at once because of the limitations in bar-space and the build decisions you make to support those skill-choices.

Those mobile sorcs you see - the ones tha you can't catch.. those are using high-sustain builds and 2 skill-slots and pots dedicated for mobility. To do that, limits skill selection - and lowers max stats - which, unlike many other classes, on a sorc lowers both attack and defence.. Your standard tankiness relying on primarily blocking/dodging gains in defence when they can sustain it.. Sorc loses defence when they add sustain.

So these highly-mobile sorcs - low damage, low defences.

Or there are those with the huge damage potential.. They may be focussing on burst with DW. They may be using necropotence and pets to boost their stats for more damage. Their burst is scary. Their shields are really strong. But they cannot fit both streak and boundless - so give up the ability to escape. They have poor recov of all stats, and so cannot sustain a fight against anyone who survives their bursts a few times. And they cannot escape when it goes south. These guys are more like honking big turrets, with limited ammo.
But people see the mobility-sorc and seem to think they have the damage/shields of the turret sorcs.. Or they see the turret-sorc and and seem to think they have the sustain and mobility of the mobility-sorc..


TL:DR; Sorc's don't get everything in one package.

Ok, on that point you are right. But i meaned, that i needed to use rapid regen as magicka templar too to have enough survivalbility to compensate, that i dont have an escape or any CC... I just was wrong to explain that. Sry

Yeah nobody has everything in one build... But, when you have 15 instead of just 10 possible slotted skills, you have much more builddiversity. Pls explain me not, that its easier to create a build with just 10 possible skillslots. Sure, when you want a offensive and a defensive ultimate you will have same problemtaic like every other class. BUT you can slot 15 skills

Yeah, overload is a poor argument. Let me give you some real examples based on 3 builds that I run.

1. My overload build. This one actually uses overload as a combat bar. Its very rare people do this for reasons I'll explain. The standard 2 bars consists of the usual sorc stuff that every sorc runs to full their bars. Surge being one of them, boundless being one I decided to drop.
Combat starts - I have surge up, try use resto to proc the spelldmg enchant then switch to overload bar - which contains..: Hardened ward (cos defence still important), curse, wrath, (both needed to try to burst with overload hit) inner light (cos you want those ulti's to crit and do as much dmg as possible), and frags to try to land a stun to get an overload attack to hit. EVERY one of those skills is repeated on my non-overload bars - because they are necessary for combat. You cannot baw-swap to overload like a normal bar-swap - it's like casting an ability - it takes a full second or so to complete (and sometimes just doesn't happen) - so everything you need has to be on one bar. If a quick heal is needed.. you just have to hope the ward holds long enough to switch overload off, swap to the bar with the heal and cast it. That takes seconds - which is a long time in combat when you need to heal.

2. Overload Buff-Bar. I've ran a number of builds using overload as a buff bar. In these, when you haven't built to use overload in combat - it is weak - and neither do you have the skills slotted on your overload bar to be able to use it in combat. For this, my overload bar contains... Rapids, defensive rune, surge, pet, ward. pet and ward are repeated in other bars and mandatory. Rapids/defensive rune only used for travelling. Surge at the start of a fight. After that, I use pots to give major sorcery. I still have no room for boundless storm. In combat, the overload bar is useless. Sometimes if its a low-recov build I may have dark-exchange instead of ward - just to speed up recov while out of combat. But overload as an effective combat bar is useless in this instance. To get that fast, safe travelling that this setup provides, I lose either an offensive ult or resto ult. I'm effectively only using one ult.

3. Standard build. This one is generally the strongest for combat. It doesn't use overload. It relies on pots for major sorcery (no room for surge) - still has no room for boundless - but it does have a choice of ulti's (usually meteor/resto) depending whether I need offence or survivability. This is the best all-round combat setup out of the three - because of ulti-flexibility - and it only has 10 skill-slots, like every other class. You could even say less because it involves toggles too.

Overload for extra skills is only workable out of combat - and so of very limited use.

DeHei

Feanor wrote: »

You can't slot 15 skills. On the overload bar you have no weapons. Hence you are limited to class skills. The nature of overload leads to needing 1 shield at least and a heal, which only leaves Surge (unreliable HoT) or Matriarch, which you have to summon with a 1.5 sec artificial snare if you're not running a pet build. Then switching to overload bar and back is extremely clunky and gets you often locked in the overload bar. In short, it's totally impractical if you don't have a dedicated pocket healer running with you.

It just was a example. There is only the possibility to do it. I wouldnt say that is a needful option. Most build work fine with just 10 skills and missing anything.

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Yeah you could get more survivability if you could use any skill you want. But u are limited to what you can use. And no, ditching resto ult or atro for overload just so u can use 2-3 more skills is doing the exact opposite of giving you survivability.

If you want to kill sorcs put on heavy armor and watch them tickle you. They cant take ur pressure, they will constantly have to streak you and shield spam to stay alive and eventually run out of magicka

Sorcs with 2,4k magickareg and more will not go out of magicka i think. They should experienced enough to sustain good enough. I can hold my magicka nearly endless with just 1,7k magickareg for example. My burstheal costs same like all shields.

Sure you can sustain. But whats the point if u are doing it at the expense of dmg and cant get a kill anw. And sure ur heal costs the same. But you dont spam the [snip] out of it. Sorcs cant take too much pressure. I am telling you this as a sorc. Put them on the defensive. Shields go down very fast under heavy pressure. Staying put and shieldstacking isnt an option. If they are good sorcs they will kite you with streak to avoid dmg but still. Its either going to be a "draw" or ull kill them.

Your build doesnt do great against sorcs but thats a choice you made. It doesnt mean that the templar as a class cant kill sorcs. When i am on a sorc, templar is literally the only class i have huge troubles fighting. You cant dmg them for [snip] unless they are playing light squishy builds and they have more than enough pressure to kill you if they are good.

I prefer ball of lightning instead of streak ;-) it is much more damage avoiding

[Edited for quote]

Merlin13KAGL

I see a whole lotta bitching, but a whole lot fewer clues.

Let's review some similar "logic" to what is presented in a large chunk of this thread:

1. Sorcs are OP:
   • Do you play a class other than Sorc in PvP?
   • Do you ever see other classes than Sorc in PvP?
   • Have you ever killed a Sorc in PvP?
   If the answer to any of the above is 'Yes' then clearly the Sorc dominance is exagerated.
   If not, there is still nothing to *** about. Clearly everyone will roll OP Sorc, or already has. This means everyone will benefit from OP staff, and the situation is unchanged either way. You get both the benefit and the downside to the change.
   
2. Class skills are not the damn same as weapon skills.
   • Any class can use Destro as Mag, with DW as a potential stretch, without most of the benefits of the actual weapon skill line.
   • Any class can use Restro also - Stam classes (being any class, but focused in Stam), can get healing and damage benefits from a single weapon lines (two, with certain DW morphs)
   If you want to complain about the synergy involved, state it accordingly.
   
3. I have yet to see someone offer up an alternative to the non-class-ability in question that can be used by any magicka based setup.
   • Where are our other three weapon line options? Give magicka setups a damned weapon alternative. As Stam, you have access to 4 different weapon lines, two of which include heals, as well as damage. If you're magicka based, you get Destro, or reduced functionality DW. We'll even throw in those impossible to kill Restro staff damage machines...(circa what, 1.4 or so?)

You wanna complain? You want something to be different? Fine.

Offer an alternative. If magicka setups had 3 other weapon line choices, perhaps FP/CS wouldn't be the only option. You'd also have three more things to irrelevantly *** about.

In the meantime, if you insist on whining about a class, at least have the courtesy of whining about the class.

Sincerely,
Someone who plays more than just Sorc.

Derra

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Rapidregen works well on a class that synergises with healing. On a sorc you have no healing bonuses and no other heals that interact with rapid regen.
You have ritual as another hot, minor mending and probably specced into healing from CP more than a sorc can.

If you want to slot the skill mutagen outperforms it bc of the potential to save you on low HP.
Realistly in 95 out of 100 situation (even against shieldbreaker) you´re better of having mines/harness/darkdeal/mageswrath instead of slotting rapid regen because of how badly it interacts with the sorc toolkit (unless you built for no shields at all).

DeHei

Derra wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Rapidregen works well on a class that synergises with healing. On a sorc you have no healing bonuses and no other heals that interact with rapid regen.
You have ritual as another hot, minor mending and probably specced into healing from CP more than a sorc can.

If you want to slot the skill mutagen outperforms it bc of the potential to save you on low HP.
Realistly in 95 out of 100 situation (even against shieldbreaker) you´re better of having mines/harness/darkdeal/mageswrath instead of slotting rapid regen because of how badly it interacts with the sorc toolkit (unless you built for no shields at all).

i judt have 11 points into healing from red CP points.. Its isnt much you see.

Feanor

@Derra

Rapid Regen is also not a reliable heal because of smart healing. You're guaranteed the HoT only if nobody is around you for miles. You can ofc cast it as pre-buff so to speak, but that's a waste of resources.

Derra

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Achieve balance by buffing the other classes. Leave sorc at the current level since you are not gona nerf this ridiculous class.

This. Buff other classes.

what buffs do they need?

The only thing currently significantly underperforming seems to be medium armor.

I can explain for nearly every class something, that they need. Just Sorcs have allready everything for all situations.

Templar need more CC and an escape. Together with that Radiant should work without bug or they should get another way to increase damage slightly for magicka.

DKs need a finisher and an escape.

Warden need more damage! Some of the healskills should morph to more useful.

I dont know what nightblades need, but for sure there is something they miss too.

Buffing DK and Templar with the state Heavy Armour is in would be a mistake. Warden needs more damage in PvE. They certainly are very strong in PvP. And Sorc doesn't have everything, healing is pretty bad, the skills cost a ton (less than DK though), you're shoehorned into 1 playstyle mostly, and you're relying on shields 24/7, meaning if your shield drops you're dead. That's just a few examples.

Why does many templar and Dks wear heavy armor?! Because they dont have an escape and options to survive in openworld. I play with light armor and its much harder to survive... I can use the vampire skill to escape, but what happen, when i dont want to be a vampire?
You guys all see just very defensive played templar and DKs... You dont see, that they dont have much offensive pressure, just that you need to do more pressure to bring them down...

Sorcs have nearly one of the best selfheals ingame. They can use critical surge for selfheal and every skill from dark magic heals too. So i dont understand how you can say the selfheal is bad!

Templars and DKs are not suppose to be mobile because they have high survivability. Thats why mist form exists. If u want more mobility in a class that isnt designed for it u can go vamp. But you cant ask for everything and no sorcs dont have everything.

There is a reason why you see sorcs staying on low hp for extended periods of time. Thats because self healing is bad, very bad. Surge procs on crits but u dont have dots ticking or high pressure to constantly proc it so u basically get that heal every now and then. Dark deal/conversion has a cast time and you cant rely on it and even sorcs advocate for the heal to be removed from it cause the skill is already ridiculous. And frag procs a vey small heal that isnt even noticeable. The only self heal u have on a sorc is attached to a pet that has to be double bared and its unreliable.

But i do agree that templars need the shard cc back and DKs need implosion that procs only with flame dmg.

For example i use rapid regen from healingstaffskillline to have enough survivalbility. Try it too

Rapidregen works well on a class that synergises with healing. On a sorc you have no healing bonuses and no other heals that interact with rapid regen.
You have ritual as another hot, minor mending and probably specced into healing from CP more than a sorc can.

If you want to slot the skill mutagen outperforms it bc of the potential to save you on low HP.
Realistly in 95 out of 100 situation (even against shieldbreaker) you´re better of having mines/harness/darkdeal/mageswrath instead of slotting rapid regen because of how badly it interacts with the sorc toolkit (unless you built for no shields at all).

i judt have 11 points into healing from red CP points.. Its isnt much you see.

And conviniently ignore all other points made

Biro123

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

Rapid Regen is also not a reliable heal because of smart healing. You're guaranteed the HoT only if nobody is around you for miles. You can ofc cast it as pre-buff so to speak, but that's a waste of resources.

I found that too.. I counted once.. Cast it 7 times in a row once before it actually landed on me... Part of the problem with shield and smart-healing.. unless your health drops first, it can be difficult to get a Hot.

Twohothardware

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Or actually make hardened and harness not stuck? You do realise that this is the problem right? Giving shields a cost increase similar to streak doesnt make it balanced. It effectively removes sorcs and light armor from the game. You'd actually have a clue about what u are talking about if u actually played the class.

Sorcs and NB are not like templars and DKs. They shouldnt be able to get away with never having to wear heavy armor? No, they shouldnt have to wear heavy armor. They are not designed for it and they dont synergize with it.

And sorcs absolutely need crit resistance. Stop stating ur idiotic biased bs as facts. They are not. You cant keep shields 100% up. That would mean sorcs never die. You need crit resistance cause when your shields go down, and they will go down, you will be blown to pieces in 1 second with zero crit resistance.

I have two MagSorc's and have regularly been in 1v1's with the top two or three Sorcs on PS4. Even if you only had Hardened Ward and Healing Ward it would still be OP because of the way shields can be constantly refreshed and the fact there are Sorc builds with 50k Magicka that give huge shields. And at least prior to the last round of nerfs to heavy the top MagBlade on PC Kena was wearing Heavy Armor so I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about.

You're also wrong about MagSorc's needing Crit immunity on shields to survive. They have the highest mobility in the game with Streak along with Mines and now after this patch will have a strong rune CC. Sorc's have more than enough ways to survive and right now they're able to face tank like a DK in heavy due to three non crittable shields that have 100% uptime.

Joy_Division

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Or actually make hardened and harness not stuck? You do realise that this is the problem right? Giving shields a cost increase similar to streak doesnt make it balanced. It effectively removes sorcs and light armor from the game. You'd actually have a clue about what u are talking about if u actually played the class.

Sorcs and NB are not like templars and DKs. They shouldnt be able to get away with never having to wear heavy armor? No, they shouldnt have to wear heavy armor. They are not designed for it and they dont synergize with it.

And sorcs absolutely need crit resistance. Stop stating ur idiotic biased bs as facts. They are not. You cant keep shields 100% up. That would mean sorcs never die. You need crit resistance cause when your shields go down, and they will go down, you will be blown to pieces in 1 second with zero crit resistance.

I have two MagSorc's and have regularly been in 1v1's with the top two or three Sorcs on PS4. Even if you only had Hardened Ward and Healing Ward it would still be OP because of the way shields can be constantly refreshed and the fact there are Sorc builds with 50k Magicka that give huge shields. And at least prior to the last round of nerfs to heavy the top MagBlade on PC Kena was wearing Heavy Armor so I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about.

You're also wrong about MagSorc's needing Crit immunity on shields to survive. They have the highest mobility in the game with Streak along with Mines and now after this patch will have a strong rune CC. Sorc's have more than enough ways to survive and right now they're able to face tank like a DK in heavy due to three non crittable shields that have 100% uptime.

If you ever died playing a sorc, then your shields were not up 100% and you would have benefited from wearing impen.

I love it when my structured entropy crits for 900 damage on a sorc and 400 damage vs everyone else. But by all means keep insisting you don;t need impen Vs. opponents who know what they are doing.

Twohothardware

Joy_Division wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Or actually make hardened and harness not stuck? You do realise that this is the problem right? Giving shields a cost increase similar to streak doesnt make it balanced. It effectively removes sorcs and light armor from the game. You'd actually have a clue about what u are talking about if u actually played the class.

Sorcs and NB are not like templars and DKs. They shouldnt be able to get away with never having to wear heavy armor? No, they shouldnt have to wear heavy armor. They are not designed for it and they dont synergize with it.

And sorcs absolutely need crit resistance. Stop stating ur idiotic biased bs as facts. They are not. You cant keep shields 100% up. That would mean sorcs never die. You need crit resistance cause when your shields go down, and they will go down, you will be blown to pieces in 1 second with zero crit resistance.

I have two MagSorc's and have regularly been in 1v1's with the top two or three Sorcs on PS4. Even if you only had Hardened Ward and Healing Ward it would still be OP because of the way shields can be constantly refreshed and the fact there are Sorc builds with 50k Magicka that give huge shields. And at least prior to the last round of nerfs to heavy the top MagBlade on PC Kena was wearing Heavy Armor so I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about.

You're also wrong about MagSorc's needing Crit immunity on shields to survive. They have the highest mobility in the game with Streak along with Mines and now after this patch will have a strong rune CC. Sorc's have more than enough ways to survive and right now they're able to face tank like a DK in heavy due to three non crittable shields that have 100% uptime.

If you ever died playing a sorc, then your shields were not up 100% and you would have benefited from wearing impen.

I love it when my structured entropy crits for 900 damage on a sorc and 400 damage vs everyone else. But by all means keep insisting you don;t need impen Vs. opponents who know what they are doing.

Impen can help when dueling a skilled player but against the majority of players it's not needed on a MagSorc and if your shields are down and you have multiple players on you it's not going to matter if you have Impen or not in Light Armor.

Tillalarrien

How about giving some stun like that to a TEMP instead? Sorcs can get our piercing javelin xD

While we are on it. They can have radiant destruction too in exchange for mageswrath :'D why am i even playing a temp

Wreuntzylla

Ahhhh, except for about 4-6 months, the one thing that has remained at perfect equilibrium in ESO is the nerf sorc threads and the 'this is now a nerf sorc thread' memes.

Seriously, if one day I can to the forums and there wasn't at least one ongoing nerf sorc thread, I might have a brain cloud. Think of the children!

pieratsos

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

MagSorc just gets away with avoiding the brunt of too many nerfs because of the way Shields work differently than everything else. Shields need a 50% cost increase like Streak if the same shield is immediately cast again within so many seconds. Sorcs shouldn't be able to so easily get away with never having to wear heavy armor unlike other Magicka classes and not even needing to have Impen on the armor or invest CP in Impen because shields can currently be kept up 100% of the time and their non crittable. Either that or make Shields finally Crittable.

Or actually make hardened and harness not stuck? You do realise that this is the problem right? Giving shields a cost increase similar to streak doesnt make it balanced. It effectively removes sorcs and light armor from the game. You'd actually have a clue about what u are talking about if u actually played the class.

Sorcs and NB are not like templars and DKs. They shouldnt be able to get away with never having to wear heavy armor? No, they shouldnt have to wear heavy armor. They are not designed for it and they dont synergize with it.

And sorcs absolutely need crit resistance. Stop stating ur idiotic biased bs as facts. They are not. You cant keep shields 100% up. That would mean sorcs never die. You need crit resistance cause when your shields go down, and they will go down, you will be blown to pieces in 1 second with zero crit resistance.

I have two MagSorc's and have regularly been in 1v1's with the top two or three Sorcs on PS4. Even if you only had Hardened Ward and Healing Ward it would still be OP because of the way shields can be constantly refreshed and the fact there are Sorc builds with 50k Magicka that give huge shields. And at least prior to the last round of nerfs to heavy the top MagBlade on PC Kena was wearing Heavy Armor so I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about.

You're also wrong about MagSorc's needing Crit immunity on shields to survive. They have the highest mobility in the game with Streak along with Mines and now after this patch will have a strong rune CC. Sorc's have more than enough ways to survive and right now they're able to face tank like a DK in heavy due to three non crittable shields that have 100% uptime.

1)We are talking about normal sorcs here. Bringing a 50k magicka pet sorc duelling build as an example doesnt prove anything. Thats just specific edge scenarios. All classes have those stupid builds.

2)Shields are very effective in 1v1 but they get worse in open world. The game isnt balanced just around 1v1. But thats not even the point. The point is that ur suggestion of increasing shield cost per cast is idiotic. It doesnt matter if you are using 1 or 2 shields. You make them useless. You are not just nerfing sorcs. You are essentially deleting light armor from the game.

3)When magblades were running heavy it was because running in light wasnt viable and heavy was extremely OP. It was back when snares and roots were even worse than they are now. Cloak was breaking with everything, you could [snip] move 2 meters before you get rooted and therefore their mobility which is what they relied on was hindered severely. Thats why they were running heavy. To survive. Also at that time, magblades were the worst class in open world PVP. Even mDKs were better than them at that point. Care to guess why? Now that they sort of have their mobility back they are all playing in light again. So no mate, you are the clueless one here not me.

4)You need crit res as a sorc. Thats not a debate. Just because some of u have this stupid idea in ur mind and think "well if my shields go down ill die anw so why bother" it doesnt mean we all do. I use impen and CP crit res and i find it useful cause i want to survive a couple of seconds when my shields are down.

But all that doesnt even matter and im not even sure why i bothered to wrote all that since you are not gonna even try to understand. You are just another guy believing in the fairytale of sorc god mode that doesnt listen to anyone. No, sorcs cant facetank like DKs. Thats an asinine statement, made by people who dont have the slightest idea about the class. The days when sorcs were actually facetanking are long gone. You live in the past.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Twohothardware

pieratsos wrote: »

But all that doesnt even matter and im not even sure why i bothered to wrote all that since you are not gonna even try to understand. You are just another guy believing in the fairytale of sorc god mode that doesnt listen to anyone. No, sorcs cant facetank like DKs. Thats an asinine statement, made by people who dont have the slightest idea about the class. The days when sorcs were actually facetanking are long gone. You live in the past.

If you think that your the one that doesn't have the slightest idea about the class and likely spend all your time in zergs never facing a high skilled sorc by yourself. There is no class harder to kill than a MagSorc outside of a DK tank that lacks the damage to actually kill you. The top Sorc's I face are impossible to kill solo without running out their Stamina and knocking them down because you can't deal enough damage to burn through their shields and those same Sorcs build for Stamina to prevent that. And because of Streak and Dark Conversion it's very easy to escape and reset the fight any time you get low on resources. You can't do that on other classes outside of a Nightblade cloaking.

pieratsos

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

Twohothardware

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

pieratsos

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

ak_pvp

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

Stopping shield stacks or crit. (Not both) Won't destroy every light armour class in the game. That really shows how much you know. Crit shie;ds would hurt to other classes more, since it'd force even heavier spam, and sorc has a stronger one to stack.

Just remove harness/hardened/sun/bone ("big shields") stack.

Oh, and by the way, just go to google/youtube etc, and watch some sorc PvP builds. Even old ones, mainly CP got nerfed, since perma shielding is still 100% possible with harness. Ring a ring a tree, and drop some stuff on proc. The only reason a DK could ever out tank a sorc is because of the bugs with 7th. They both have a low cost lifesaver ult, almost infinite defense (block/shield) and damage whilst keeping tonkability. (7th vs mag stack) Oh ya, and sorcs have mobility,

Twohothardware

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

You think increasing the cost of using the same shield again within a couple seconds would destroy light armor wearing MagSorc's more than your suggestion of making it so that you can't even use Hardened Ward and Harness together? Sustain is the easiest thing on a MagSorc. The only other Magicka class that runs light armor with shields is Magblade and they have cloak.

And Shields function just fine in open world. All your abilities have a 28m range, harness magicka gives you great sustain against other ranged Magicka classes, and Streak allows you to completely disengage from the fight at any moment whereas you can't do that on other classes like a Templar. You also clearly don't 1v1 anyone very good if you think it's the stamina regen builds that are not effective in 1v1 because that's what most of the top Sorc's run. You can easily run a set like Shacklebreaker with over 45k Magicka and good Stamina sustain. If you don't have that Stamina sustain you will never win against a high skilled Stamina player.

And I don't need to go make you a video of what gets uploaded every week to Youtube. Just search for MagSorc Outnumbered or MagSorc 1vX. Most all are open world as well.

Here a couple of MagSorcs on PS4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg2qgHg_AIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1uNz9OK9zw

DeHei

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

You think increasing the cost of using the same shield again within a couple seconds would destroy light armor wearing MagSorc's more than your suggestion of making it so that you can't even use Hardened Ward and Harness together? Sustain is the easiest thing on a MagSorc. The only other Magicka class that runs light armor with shields is Magblade and they have cloak.

And Shields function just fine in open world. All your abilities have a 28m range, harness magicka gives you great sustain against other ranged Magicka classes, and Streak allows you to completely disengage from the fight at any moment whereas you can't do that on other classes like a Templar. You also clearly don't 1v1 anyone very good if you think it's the stamina regen builds that are not effective in 1v1 because that's what most of the top Sorc's run. You can easily run a set like Shacklebreaker with over 45k Magicka and good Stamina sustain. If you don't have that Stamina sustain you will never win against a high skilled Stamina player.

And I don't need to go make you a video of what gets uploaded every week to Youtube. Just search for MagSorc Outnumbered or MagSorc 1vX. Most all are open world as well.

Here a couple of MagSorcs on PS4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg2qgHg_AIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1uNz9OK9zw

Wrong... Magicka sorcs, magicka nightblades and magicka warden (they can have more max magicka then sorcs!) are all using damage mitigation shields

pieratsos

ak_pvp wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

Stopping shield stacks or crit. (Not both) Won't destroy every light armour class in the game. That really shows how much you know. Crit shie;ds would hurt to other classes more, since it'd force even heavier spam, and sorc has a stronger one to stack.

Just remove harness/hardened/sun/bone ("big shields") stack.

Oh, and by the way, just go to google/youtube etc, and watch some sorc PvP builds. Even old ones, mainly CP got nerfed, since perma shielding is still 100% possible with harness. Ring a ring a tree, and drop some stuff on proc. The only reason a DK could ever out tank a sorc is because of the bugs with 7th. They both have a low cost lifesaver ult, almost infinite defense (block/shield) and damage whilst keeping tonkability. (7th vs mag stack) Oh ya, and sorcs have mobility,

Are you for real now? Do you even read?

I literally told you shieldstacking should be removed. He said shields should work like streak and that hardened alone is still OP. Read before posting ur bs. Its like you deliberately ignore everything people tell you and u are keep repeating the same crap again and again.

Again no, sorc cannot facetank people. Get over it. You are literally making assumptions about things you dont know about. I watched sorc videos. Still havent seen one showcasing facetanking. You can only "facetank" when resto ult is up. But thats because resto ult is stupid genius and its not a sorc ability.

You were bashing people for talking about DK permablocking based on ur experience by playing the class and you are now doing the exact opposite. Pretending to be expert on a class you have zero experience on. Just roll a [snip] sorc and go facetank ffs.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Banana

Play something else wrobel. Sorcerers need a nerf

pieratsos

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Actually i play solo. Thats why i actually have a clue about what im talking about. You dont. What you see happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Trying to "educate" people that played the class extensively when u havent played it is stupid.

And judging by what you say im prety sure you are the one zerging and chasing sorcs but you are too bad so just jumped on the nerf sorc train.

You know what the funny thing is tho? I literally told you that you wouldnt even bother to understand and surprise surprise. You didnt.

And btw, do u actually complain why top sorcs are not dying in 1v1 if u dont outplay them. What exactly do u want, for them to sit still so u can kill them?

You playing solo doesn't mean a thing lol. I never group either, I have two MagSorc's I play regularly as I mentioned, and I spend my time going where the actually skilled players are at on the map which typically isn't even near a keep. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if you got the impression that I was complaining because I couldn't kill them. It's the difference in the effort it takes to kill a shield stacking Sorc vs every other class in the game that is the point of complaint.

All of the recent nerfs to healing, health recovery, heavy armor, and proc sets hit every other class and the buffs in this update help MagSorc once again more than any other class. That is why you once again see these nerf MagSorc threads. It's not because MagSorc is balanced and the rest of us just need to learn how to play.

And your solution to balance sorcs is to destroy every light armor build in the game?

Also, your effort to kill a specific class in 1v1 doesnt define class balance in general. Different classes struggle against different classes in 1v1 depending on builds etc. In 1v1 i struggle against good templars but i dont against sorcs. That doesnt mean templars are god mode in PVP. Thats the nature of 1v1 fights. I told you before. Shields are very effective in 1v1 but not as much in open world. And 50k magicka sorcs and high stamina regen magicka sorcs are not the same builds. Those with high stamina regen have around 40k magicka and they are not very effective in 1v1 fights actually. If you struggle against those and you cant kill them, its because they are better than you unless u are in medium armor.

But since you play a sorc by all means feel free to show us a video of you facetanking like a DK. Ill be here.

You think increasing the cost of using the same shield again within a couple seconds would destroy light armor wearing MagSorc's more than your suggestion of making it so that you can't even use Hardened Ward and Harness together? Sustain is the easiest thing on a MagSorc. The only other Magicka class that runs light armor with shields is Magblade and they have cloak.

And Shields function just fine in open world. All your abilities have a 28m range, harness magicka gives you great sustain against other ranged Magicka classes, and Streak allows you to completely disengage from the fight at any moment whereas you can't do that on other classes like a Templar. You also clearly don't 1v1 anyone very good if you think it's the stamina regen builds that are not effective in 1v1 because that's what most of the top Sorc's run. You can easily run a set like Shacklebreaker with over 45k Magicka and good Stamina sustain. If you don't have that Stamina sustain you will never win against a high skilled Stamina player.

And I don't need to go make you a video of what gets uploaded every week to Youtube. Just search for MagSorc Outnumbered or MagSorc 1vX. Most all are open world as well.

Here a couple of MagSorcs on PS4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg2qgHg_AIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1uNz9OK9zw

This will be a long post.

Yes it will destroy light armor. Do you even know how much streak costs after 3 consecutive casts? Over 10k. And you are here arguing whether ur shields costing 10k+ is sustainable or not. Lol.

The first video you showed, shows one fight LOS with atro avoiding most of the dmg and picking them off one by one. The only time he was under real pressure from 2-3 people he almost died. So much for facetanking. The second fight is in IC against a bunch of lowbies who dont know wtf they are doing. You can tank those even on a stamblade.

The second video first fight, does show tanking but is only for a very brief period of time in which he also use resto ult, LOS and streak to avoid some dmg. Its also a very rare fight in which everyone except the emp (who btw is one of the worst ive ever seen) are squishy light armor-medium armor builds that u can kill quickly and they also didnt use - abuse broken bs. Hell even the emp was squishy. Thats a very rare fight, manageable from very competent sorcs that can outplay other people. Thats not something anyone can do by just hoping on a sorc. Thats how PVP should be. The second fight is just a regular 1vX. Rarely taking a lot of pressure. Again most of them squishy, not too many people with no bs happening besides the stupid templar farting snb ults and spamming jesus beam.

The funny thing about those fights tho is that they wouldnt happen if shields have increased cost per cast. None of those fights. Even the one in IC against the lowbies. In every single fight the sorc ran low on magicka and would die if shields had an increased cost.

You are looking at videos but you lack basic knowledge to actually understand what is going on. What you think happening and what is actually happening are two different things. Its not as simpe as "1 sorc 5 people, sorc wins therefore sorc OP can facetank and one shot everyone" and they are definitely not fights where sorcs tank big groups with their eyes closed like they used to do.

And those are videos by top sorcs like you said. Not by just any sorc. And they are definitely not extreme fights with the exception of the that with the emp, thats impressive but still very rare fight like i said. A few people, manageable fights with not too much bs going on. All classes played by top players can get those results under those circumstances. Unless you actually believe that only sorcs can 1vX.

The 1v1 duelling top sorc builds are pet builds not regular sorc builds. The regular sorc builds with high stam regen (amber+shackle) have about 40k magicka, the shields arent that big and they are not using a 2 piece monster set. Thats not a duelling build. Thats an open world build. It lacks sustained dmg and cant kill anyone tanky and also dies fairly easy to competent taky players with sustained dmg. Those builds are not countered by attacking their stamina anymore. They wont run out with 1.5k stam regen. Thats why they have such stam sustain in the first place. But they do die with high pressure and timing bursts. Just watch kodi's latest PVP tournament. All sorcs dying when they take too much pressure and cant kill tanky people. The only classes they kill are other sorc and a stamblade. Pets solve those issues. They provide bigger shields, more hp, more heals, huge sustained dmg and u can LOS them to avoid dmg. Thats why pet sorc is top for duels. Again you lack basic knowledge and dont understand how duels play out either.

Chufu

You got it all: Nerf Sorc

#buffwarden

Feanor

Except taking away shield stacking and giving nothing else as a defensive mechanic would make Sorcs completely unplayable in noCP. Take away Bastion and outside of a pet build you look at 40k Magicka which gives you a 10 to 15 k shield stack. Take that away and you're looking at a 5 to 7k Hardened Ward or Harness. That gets you nowhere if you're wearing LA.