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vMA and Master weapons are not used just because of the abilty modifiers.
-
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
PvP.
Most these threads/posts are about vma weapons in PvP. Which are now dead.
So no, you don't know someone's resistance in PvP. Plus nirn applies to shields. Buffs healing too. So nirn is better mostly in PvP.
I am aware of all of this, hence why I specifically stated pve in everyone if my posts. Thank you for pointing it out though.
To the point of vMA weapons in PvP, I honestly think that this was one of the reasons that they did this. They clearly did not like you could stack the 189 spell damage with poisons and with the weapon damage glyph on a back bar. People will deal with it, as they always have.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
I did not know the armor level of pve mobs, since it is not posted obviously noted by the developers anywhere. They like to keep helpful information like that secret to make easier choices more difficult for us.
Also, doesn't that number only apply to tougher enemies like bosses and not count in any weird mechanics and buffs?
My numbers were more useful towards pvp where armor varies more anyway. Although, champion points adds a whole new element.
I'm still going to see more benefit from nirnhoned since I tend to be a tanky hybrid dps/heals.
The answer is no, the only thing that factors into the mobs resists is where it is. In overland content, that is everywhere but dungeons and trials, it is 9100 resists, for everything, including world bosses. In dungeons it is 18200 for every mob, from the lowest grunt to the last boss. The only exception is in vMA, where for some reason they are not standerized.
Even in PvP you will get more damage from sharpened. You started by saying this wasn't true and now you are all like, doesn't matter, I am going to do what I am going to do anyways. Real classy.
0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
PvP.
Most these threads/posts are about vma weapons in PvP. Which are now dead.
So no, you don't know someone's resistance in PvP. Plus nirn applies to shields. Buffs healing too. So nirn is better mostly in PvP.
I am aware of all of this, hence why I specifically stated pve in everyone if my posts. Thank you for pointing it out though.
To the point of vMA weapons in PvP, I honestly think that this was one of the reasons that they did this. They clearly did not like you could stack the 189 spell damage with poisons and with the weapon damage glyph on a back bar. People will deal with it, as they always have.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
I did not know the armor level of pve mobs, since it is not posted obviously noted by the developers anywhere. They like to keep helpful information like that secret to make easier choices more difficult for us.
Also, doesn't that number only apply to tougher enemies like bosses and not count in any weird mechanics and buffs?
My numbers were more useful towards pvp where armor varies more anyway. Although, champion points adds a whole new element.
I'm still going to see more benefit from nirnhoned since I tend to be a tanky hybrid dps/heals.
The answer is no, the only thing that factors into the mobs resists is where it is. In overland content, that is everywhere but dungeons and trials, it is 9100 resists, for everything, including world bosses. In dungeons it is 18200 for every mob, from the lowest grunt to the last boss. The only exception is in vMA, where for some reason they are not standerized.
Even in PvP you will get more damage from sharpened. You started by saying this wasn't true and now you are all like, doesn't matter, I am going to do what I am going to do anyways. Real classy.
But why? I did vma. I beat the content and beat the rng for a useable weapon. Why shouldn't I get a bit of power in my build for achieving that? Why shouldn't I be rewarded for putting more work into a build than spending a bit of money on guild stores?0 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭So,for everyone saying that is a buff cause you can mainbar a DMG glyph:
Currently I'm running:
Infused back bar (+450 WD)
Nirn 2h VMA (+189)
Damage health poisons(14kish tooltip)
With the new patch I'll lose the 189 WD from VMA AND poison in exchange for a 2k DMG every 4sec that can be blocked. Mhhhhh I see no buffs here0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
PvP.
Most these threads/posts are about vma weapons in PvP. Which are now dead.
So no, you don't know someone's resistance in PvP. Plus nirn applies to shields. Buffs healing too. So nirn is better mostly in PvP.
I am aware of all of this, hence why I specifically stated pve in everyone if my posts. Thank you for pointing it out though.
To the point of vMA weapons in PvP, I honestly think that this was one of the reasons that they did this. They clearly did not like you could stack the 189 spell damage with poisons and with the weapon damage glyph on a back bar. People will deal with it, as they always have.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
I did not know the armor level of pve mobs, since it is not posted obviously noted by the developers anywhere. They like to keep helpful information like that secret to make easier choices more difficult for us.
Also, doesn't that number only apply to tougher enemies like bosses and not count in any weird mechanics and buffs?
My numbers were more useful towards pvp where armor varies more anyway. Although, champion points adds a whole new element.
I'm still going to see more benefit from nirnhoned since I tend to be a tanky hybrid dps/heals.
The answer is no, the only thing that factors into the mobs resists is where it is. In overland content, that is everywhere but dungeons and trials, it is 9100 resists, for everything, including world bosses. In dungeons it is 18200 for every mob, from the lowest grunt to the last boss. The only exception is in vMA, where for some reason they are not standerized.
Even in PvP you will get more damage from sharpened. You started by saying this wasn't true and now you are all like, doesn't matter, I am going to do what I am going to do anyways. Real classy.
But why? I did vma. I beat the content and beat the rng for a useable weapon. Why shouldn't I get a bit of power in my build for achieving that? Why shouldn't I be rewarded for putting more work into a build than spending a bit of money on guild stores?
honestly that's why i don't buy DLC or spend too much time farming gear in this game anymore.Invictus0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How does this nerf PvP? You lost 189 Spell Damage, but you gained an enchantment which can easily be used for Beserk (almost 2x as powerful as the base Maelstrom enchant) if you really care for that bonus Spell Damage.
This buff will only need something like 50%-60% uptime (easy) to be as strong as the current 189 Spell Damage. In PvP everything is about burst damage btw, so gaining higher Spell Damage though not with 100% uptime is actually better. Also you can apply a poison to your Maelstrom/Master staff and keep the special enchantment which is great for PvP.
To me is sounds like a buff that makes these weapons more versatile in PvP.
...maybe for the staff it could be viewed as a minor nerf depending on your build. Imo it's great though. For DW it's going to be amazing.
Because If I wanted a spell damage enchantment, I would crafted a regular destruction staff and put an enchant on it. There's no need for a VMA staff because all my opponents walk out of wall of elements.
Or, maybe I would put that spell damage enchantment on a different weapon to get the buff and also equip a vMA staff for the 189 extra spell damage on top of that.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Am I the only stamblade that prefers Crit Rush????? Still, the small DoT at each Crit Rush isn't worth losing a weapon damage bonus. The whole awesomeness of 2H/Bow builds was the opportunity to use vMA and Master weapons (+ 3 piece bonus) and not suffer in terms of stats when compared to using a 4 piece bonus instead. I really hope they rethink their approach there.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
Nirnhoned benegitsIzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Am I the only stamblade that prefers Crit Rush????? Still, the small DoT at each Crit Rush isn't worth losing a weapon damage bonus. The whole awesomeness of 2H/Bow builds was the opportunity to use vMA and Master weapons (+ 3 piece bonus) and not suffer in terms of stats when compared to using a 4 piece bonus instead. I really hope they rethink their approach there.
Ambush works well with cloak, since it doesn't pull you out of stealth.0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Developer Comments: Due to the fact these items can now be enchanted or poisoned normally, their extraneous stat bonuses have been removed. For example, the Maelstrom’s Greatsword no longer adds 189 Weapon Damage on top of the modifier to Critical Charge.
The bonus stat is a deciding factor for people to use vMA and Master weapons and it helps creating so many unique builds based on those weapons. This change will eliminate 50% of vMA weapon builds.
1) vMA staves will no longer be viable in PvP for all 5 magicka classes. This is a big deal.Very few people use elemental blockade in PvP, so we are not going to see any vMA staff in PvP in the future.
2) vMA 2H weapons are no longer good for stamblades. Most stamblades use Ambush instead of Crit Charge.
3) vMA DW weapons are no longer good for stamplars. Because stamplars use jabs, not Flurry.
4) No more vMA weapons for stamina heavy attack builds.
etc
This really hurts build crafting. If you feel that vMA/Master weapons will be too OP, how about nerfing the bonus stat to 129 weapon/spell damage and 1096 stamina/magicka instead of removing it entirely? Or even nerf the modifiers a little bit. Please leave some kind of the bonus stat so it can be somewhat useful without having to use the specific ability.
I feel it opens up more builds options rather than vma or bust idea0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
PvP.
Most these threads/posts are about vma weapons in PvP. Which are now dead.
So no, you don't know someone's resistance in PvP. Plus nirn applies to shields. Buffs healing too. So nirn is better mostly in PvP.
I am aware of all of this, hence why I specifically stated pve in everyone if my posts. Thank you for pointing it out though.
To the point of vMA weapons in PvP, I honestly think that this was one of the reasons that they did this. They clearly did not like you could stack the 189 spell damage with poisons and with the weapon damage glyph on a back bar. People will deal with it, as they always have.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Just transmute it to nirnhoned for more damage bonus which gets applied as a base increase, then enchant it with a Truly Super Glyph of Weapon Damage for 348 instead of the low 189 it once had.
If that's not a buff then you're reading it wrong.
Sharpened is still better then nirn for 95% of the people that play this game. I really wish people understood this.
No it's not.
Sharpened causes your attacks to ignore 2752 of the target's resistance, which they have to have resistance that can be brought below the cap to begin with, and is only 4.17% mitigation cut through since it was nerfed from 5280 which was only 8%. That's on a 2-handed weapon so worse on dual wield per piece.
Nirnhoned is a 15% bonus to your base weapon/spell damage, on a 2 handed weapon. That also buffs all your skills that depend on that stat also.
Nirnhoned is mathematically superior, especially against enemies with less/no armor/resistance or above cap.
Please, Let's see that math then because literally the only time I have seen sharpened lose is when there is no armor left to penetrate, which is something only the top guilds in the game can manage in a way that makes since to use anything else. For PVE of course, where 500 penetration equals 1% damage increase.
No, 660 penetration equals 1% damage increase. Just like 660 resistance/armor equals 1% damage reduction.
And why wouldn't 15% more damage trump 4.17% more damage?
A 15% damage buff to a restoration staff, for example, is 200 spell damage more. That's equivalent to 2000 max magicka, give or take a bit.
My templar has the skill Dark Flare that does 9729 damage with 1335 damage on my weapon. I switch to the nirnhoned staff and it gets 1535 damage which buffs Dark Flare up to 10224. That's a 495 damage increase which translates to 5.08788% increase in damage.
Just on that one skill it is superior without any Minor or Major Sorcery buffs or any other buffs to the spell damage.
Here's our math god and savior Asayre's math on the matter http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/#post-674906
Oh come on.... :'(
All my math work disappeared.
Well, you were mostly right. I did a whole bunch of math and had it typed out here and sharpened actually beats nirnhoned when the armor level would put the enemy damage reduction between about 18% and 52.5%, because of above levels still affecting sharpened. Nirnhoned is better outside that range.
I still wouldn't choose sharpened without knowing the exact armor level of the enemy I was fighting though.
Edit: Nirnhoned also benefits healing and shields which sharpened does not. So definitely nirnhoned for me.
what does this mean? please elaborate.
you do know the armor level of pve mobs, the are either 18.2k , which is 36.4% reduction of damage or 9.1k, which is 18.2% damage reduction.
I did not know the armor level of pve mobs, since it is not posted obviously noted by the developers anywhere. They like to keep helpful information like that secret to make easier choices more difficult for us.
Also, doesn't that number only apply to tougher enemies like bosses and not count in any weird mechanics and buffs?
My numbers were more useful towards pvp where armor varies more anyway. Although, champion points adds a whole new element.
I'm still going to see more benefit from nirnhoned since I tend to be a tanky hybrid dps/heals.
The answer is no, the only thing that factors into the mobs resists is where it is. In overland content, that is everywhere but dungeons and trials, it is 9100 resists, for everything, including world bosses. In dungeons it is 18200 for every mob, from the lowest grunt to the last boss. The only exception is in vMA, where for some reason they are not standerized.
Even in PvP you will get more damage from sharpened. You started by saying this wasn't true and now you are all like, doesn't matter, I am going to do what I am going to do anyways. Real classy.
Actually, sharpened is only better when target resistance is between about 18% and 52.5%. Nirnhoned is clearly better outside those ranges and nirnhoned buffs shields and heals as well. That's why I'm going nirnhoned and because it always works the same and I choose to and who cares what you think about my way of playing?
0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mettaricana wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Developer Comments: Due to the fact these items can now be enchanted or poisoned normally, their extraneous stat bonuses have been removed. For example, the Maelstrom’s Greatsword no longer adds 189 Weapon Damage on top of the modifier to Critical Charge.
The bonus stat is a deciding factor for people to use vMA and Master weapons and it helps creating so many unique builds based on those weapons. This change will eliminate 50% of vMA weapon builds.
1) vMA staves will no longer be viable in PvP for all 5 magicka classes. This is a big deal.Very few people use elemental blockade in PvP, so we are not going to see any vMA staff in PvP in the future.
2) vMA 2H weapons are no longer good for stamblades. Most stamblades use Ambush instead of Crit Charge.
3) vMA DW weapons are no longer good for stamplars. Because stamplars use jabs, not Flurry.
4) No more vMA weapons for stamina heavy attack builds.
etc
This really hurts build crafting. If you feel that vMA/Master weapons will be too OP, how about nerfing the bonus stat to 129 weapon/spell damage and 1096 stamina/magicka instead of removing it entirely? Or even nerf the modifiers a little bit. Please leave some kind of the bonus stat so it can be somewhat useful without having to use the specific ability.
I feel it opens up more builds options rather than vma or bust idea
In PvE vMA weapons are not BIS this patch.
In PvP there are very few builds based on vMA weapons. Most people run 2x 5 pcs sets in PvP.
vma or bust? That was 3 months ago xDEdited by hmsdragonfly on September 19, 2017 1:30PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please add the bonus stat to the item set. While I like the idea of adding enchants to MS weapons, losing this bonus stat is an unneeded nerf.
People will pick a 4th set bonus over the ability altering set of a MS weapons on most of magicka setups.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk0 -
bhlegit✭✭✭this change is absolutely ridiculous. no need to remove the 189 wep dmg people will use the aslyum weapons because the abilites they give seem to be op, the vma weapons dont need to be brought down. What about all of us who spent hundreds of hours farming this for the correct drop. What about solo players who want to pvp and not so much be involved in pve we are now pigeonholed, this affects build diversity massively. i didnt think zos could come up with something even more stupid than igneous change on dk but it seems they have gg1 -
Skinzz✭✭✭✭✭Whatttttttt the effffffffffffff was zos thinking????!!!Anybody got a group? LFG, anybody? Hello?0 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭In pve only the bow and the destro staffs are used at the time ( from the staffs only realy the lifgtning staff at the time). The problem with the daggers are that we not able to play a la build and so we must make ha ( just look at the stam dk builds out there). For pvp the staffs can be useless with this change, but i dont see them so much used. I dont care if this weapons are good for pvp, i am just sas that nearly all weapons have no place in pve. Its just not possible to play a light attack rapid strike build since morrowind. And with a magicka char the groups want lightnig blockades.PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear
Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***0