got to love those gm's with extra accounts that are bots..

Nighn_9 wrote: »

got to love those gm's with extra accounts that are bots..

This is just Bull!
People who keep saying how the Trader System is just so GM's can get rich and take from the guilds is mostly delusional!
Yes, it might happen, rarely!! GM's put in more gold and time in a week than most players make or play in a month! I myself have PUT IN almost a million gold in the last month or so to SUPPORT our guild! GM's are NOT mafia bosses!

As far as OP, yes kiosk prices were CRAZY! (PC/NA), but have settled a little in the last couple weeks, at least for us.
(FYI~ At one point last year I was responsible for bidding on kiosks for 4 guilds for a while! Talk about stressed!! Lol).

My Idea for Solution~ Add more Kiosks and relocate some Trader Kiosks. Example is the traders in Riften being WAY outside the town.. Why??
After "Morrowind", there are now 183 Kiosks in game. More will be coming, I assume, with Clock Work City. By ZoS adding more Kiosks it will help with guilds getting a trader while the big trade guilds will still have the prime spots.

Console Players vs. TTC~ Well, if you are here on forums, you must have a computer. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone can access the TTC site with out having to have the add-on in game. You can search listings to your hearts desire even on consoles.

As far as "Trade System Broke! Add Auction House Now!", well no one else has done it so here we go!!

Parkham wrote:

The solution is:

Tavern barkeepers and various merchants. Do this:

Travel to any tavern or specific merchant throughout Tamriel. Post what you want to buy and what you want to sell along with a price. The price to post will be determined by how "busy" it is and also by how "busy" you are as a player.

More people posting WTB / WTS, the price goes up for that merchant. If you as a player, post more than X buys or sells, then your fee goes up; say 150 buys and 150 sells (just like being in 5 guilds).

Do this and everyone can post whatever they want, anywhere, free from guild bidding nuisance and fat cat guild masters. The gold sink will still happily chug along.

Post where you want and when you want.

Zerok wrote: »

There is no need to debate with the monopolists. Of course they will defend the current system because they are profiting from it.

It's the exact same thing when the government wants to bring more competition to a monopoly-dominated industry. You will hear all kinds of arguments from the monopolist: "jobs will be lost", "investments will plummet", "profits will leave the country", etc.

In the end, more competition means better quality at lower price for the consumer. In ESO, the prerequisite to more competition is to remove asymetry of information. An AH could do that, but it's not the only way. A centralized searching tool could also do the trick (akin to the TTC website).

Around 160 guild vendors vs one auction house. Which one lends itself to items being monopolized? It isn't the 160 vendors.

I wouldn't mind seeing a place in each zone you could visit and see what all the traders in that zone have. Putting it in the bank of the main city would work. It shouldn't show prices though so if you wanted a bargain you would have to visit each trader and check the price.

People keep mentioning lower prices. That is only true for common or easy to get items. With a central auction house it would be very easy for three or four people to completely control rare items.

Add more vendors to the capital cities. That would help

Jamini wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

They can't trade. There's only 500 spots per guild, and only a few good spots in the game, most of them are taken up with the same accounts or even the same people on multiple accounts. So that's probably like max 1000 people in this game who can trade. See the problem yet or you going to repeat yourself yet again while missing the point?

And stop telling ME how to do stuff. I'm talking about things in the abstract.

Just checked, my current (mournhold) trade guild has ten slots unused.

Also, multiple accounts for trading is an absolutely tiny percentage of the population. It's most certainly not covering the 10,000+ prime account spots per server. (Elden Root, Wayrest, and Mournhold all have over five traders. Rawl had four, Craiglorn has five or six if I remember right). Let's also not forget about second-tier spots like VG, Davon's Watch, Maburk, Shornhelm, and Daggerfall!

Go find a proper trade guild and stop complaining. There are many of them out there, and they WANT people selling.

So, how does one contact these awesome guilds to become a member? Hmm. There's no way in game to contact or even know who those people in those guilds are. Maybe you get lucky and happen to be in the right place at the right time, when someone is spamming for new members, but that's really just up to chance. I have played other games with global auction houses and have to say it is a way better option than this clunky soup sandwich ESO has put together. I am in 3 trade guilds and am still learning the trade system, but its really hard to sell much when your trader is way out in back of beyond. Not everybody can get in guilds that consistently have a trader in a prime location, so unfortunately, the vast majority of players are excluded from trading.
By the way, its a FORUM, where people should be able to express their opinions, so I really don't understand what position you are in to tell people to stop complaining. It comes off as if you are saying, "don't agree with me? Just sit down and shut up", which is not helpful.

Pele wrote: »

This happens because there are extremely wealthy trading guilds that can afford to jack up prices. If you think that's bad, you won't like an auction house because that makes it much easier for those with lots of gold to do exactly what they're doing now.

The current guild trader kiosk system is the only thing that keeps monopolies in check.

While at the same time making it impossible to buy/sell for the majority of the community.

I don't really see how this system could be a problem. It is original, I am happy to see something new in a MMO.
If all games are the same, then what's the use of having different games ?
I think that a lot of those asking for an AH because it would be "better" actually ask for it because it would be "easier". It is not the same thing.
What they do not realise is that this system is already extremely easy. Seriously, give it a try.

Actually, I am in one of these big TG that get the same merchant in the same good spot every week.
It wasn't always the case through.
I started by sharing a place in a TG with my friends. One of us only had take a place in a small TG and he was selling everything for us. Better than trying to sell apples, as someone else said. We were only selling small goods in a small guild, but this created a net and regular influx of money for us all.
I even knew a guild where 4/5 members were in a good TG, selling the goods of all their guild-mates. Most of the guild member were not able to afford a place in a TG, but together, they were.
Some might argue that they don't want to use that kind of social trick, but we are in a MMO, it IS a social game.
About me and my friend, after a time, some of us who were spending their days on ESO moved to bigger TGs and were able to fill their 30 slots by themself.
Me, I took a place in a medium trade guild with some ambition, still sharing my place with a friend, selling his goods, witch help me reaching enough sells to keep my place in the TG.
Eventually, with lots of efforts, our guild was able to afford a seller in a good place from time to time, and, finally, every weeks (since after morrowind), thus proving that a new high-level TG can still be founded. And we are not even "full", there is always around 40 place available.
The guild's total benefits easily pay for the next week vendor, the income is stable, so it's worth the price.
Now me and my friend get an income of 30 000 to 150 000 per weeks, and we only spend maybe 7 hours per weeks on this game, at max.


The only thing it take to get a good spot in TG system is time and effort. It is not as simple as "press AH button, select object, put it on sale for 1 gold less than the lowest available price".
Else you spend enough time in the game to afford a place in a guild, else you share it with others, cumulating your respective time. Of course, the last solution require you to have friends ; friends in a MMO, is it really so strange to imagine ?
Also, you should not use the vendor to sell all your craps, as you can do in some others game ; it is much more efficient to think before selling, to make some experience with price, analyse the market. Not all the most expensive goods are dropped by hard vet dungeon. Some items are easy to loot (I get a dozen of them each week) and sell for thousands of gold piece...

The system work, even for the smallest players and guild, if only you spend your time thinking, planing and trying instead of crying that you can't be part of it.

And if you are on PC and really want an AH, there is an AH addon. That is what is really great with this game : players can tweak it.

I hate the trade system here. I say that even as I belong to at least 5 different trade guilds across 2 accounts and feel that the people running them are really great folks. I don't hate the trade guilds themselves, I hate the system that spawned them. You need to be able to sell your items at any kiosk and pay a nominal fee per item (and perhaps with an item limit and inability to undercut any MEMBER of the guild with the same item up for auction) to whoever has the kiosk that week WITHOUT having to be in the trade guild. That system alone would help the trade guilds stay in business and yet open up access to players across the board.

Also, ZOS really needs to stop being so lazy and improve their search function so that you can actually search for the item you want by name.

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Its as I said, any UI ZoS throws together is probably going to be crap. If ZoS gave us and Console all an Auction House you probably wouldn't be able to search that either.

ZOS designing a crap UI shouldn't be cited as the reason that most of the server get denied the opportunity to trade their goods some weeks if not all.

Level of exaggeration exceeding 9000..

Not at all...quite often even serious trade guilds lose their spot leaving members without anywhere to trade, sometimes for weeks in a row. And loads of people can't even get into a serious trade guild, because they just want to sell a few things every so often...so those people aren't allowed to trade at all.

Literally anyone who wants to get into a trade guild can. People who just want to sell a few things every week dont belong in Blackbriar Barter Co. or any of the serious guilds, but there are still guilds with kiosks for every level of seller.

I agree with you 100% though that the bidding system needs to be improved to reduce volatility. GL getting ZoS to actually do that, but its better to be right and ineffectual than wrong and ineffectual I guess.

I don't see why it's okay to make it so some people can't be exposed to the market to sell their goods, when they might have the same items to sell as the ones who can get to a wider market, just fewer of them or less often or whatever their limiting factor is.

All players should be able to reach the same market equally, right now not only are some markets less trafficked, but some people don't even have a market to sell in at all.

Imagine if all the items looted in the game, all of them get to be on the market. What do you think the prices are gonna look like after a week?

Okay so you're saying it's intended that many people aren't allowed to trade. So only some people are allowed to make money in this game.

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.

I don't know why you are having such problems getting into a trading guild. Maybe this is a problem only on the NA servers? I'm a pretty casual player and can still sell my stuff in rawl'kha for only 2k fees a week. Everyone can afford that.

The disconnect may be the difference between platforms. The economy on PS4 NA is completely fragged.

Even po dunk out of the way traders are running 5K weekly dues. Large trade guilds are currently at 15K in dues. I fully expect that to go to 20K soon.

Linaleah wrote: »

this system works for a certain kind of seller. but its awful for most buyers even with TTC (becasue you STILL have to hoof it all over the place, checking traders one by one -if you are lucky/don't mind paying higher price, it will be at the first trader you check, but more often then not - by the time you get there, the item is gone), its awful for anyone who is a sporadic seller or a sporadic player, the only thing this system is good for is gold sync.

and before someone says anything about me not understanding the system, I understand it fine. currently without selling tempers for that extra burst of gold I may want for luxury furnishings, I make 300k plus per week with my two non prime but decent nonetheless location guilds. not a power seller, but good enough to qualify for even a prime location guild without having to change anything about how I play.

I still. hate. this system. it sucks as a buyer (and I don't even want to contemplate how much more it sucks on console where awesome guild store doesn't exist). its a pain if you are not a regular seller. it NEEDS a rework.

@Linaleah

It's not clear in your comment "why it sucks" ......it's clear why you don't like parts of it but the feature as a whole, it's a very realistic experience.

Here's what I'm reading.....just picked your comment as an example to quote.

-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to have to go other places or search multiple times for items I want to buy. Instead I want to see any and everything in one place with one interaction.

-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to be limited to who my listed items for sale are seen by, instead I want everyone to see everything in one interaction.


For arguments sake, would you agree that you dislike the real worlds model of buying and selling goods today?

Linaleah wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

this system works for a certain kind of seller. but its awful for most buyers even with TTC (becasue you STILL have to hoof it all over the place, checking traders one by one -if you are lucky/don't mind paying higher price, it will be at the first trader you check, but more often then not - by the time you get there, the item is gone), its awful for anyone who is a sporadic seller or a sporadic player, the only thing this system is good for is gold sync.

and before someone says anything about me not understanding the system, I understand it fine. currently without selling tempers for that extra burst of gold I may want for luxury furnishings, I make 300k plus per week with my two non prime but decent nonetheless location guilds. not a power seller, but good enough to qualify for even a prime location guild without having to change anything about how I play.

I still. hate. this system. it sucks as a buyer (and I don't even want to contemplate how much more it sucks on console where awesome guild store doesn't exist). its a pain if you are not a regular seller. it NEEDS a rework.

@Linaleah

It's not clear in your comment "why it sucks" ......it's clear why you don't like parts of it but the feature as a whole, it's a very realistic experience.

Here's what I'm reading.....just picked your comment as an example to quote.

-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to have to go other places or search multiple times for items I want to buy. Instead I want to see any and everything in one place with one interaction.

-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to be limited to who my listed items for sale are seen by, instead I want everyone to see everything in one interaction.


For arguments sake, would you agree that you dislike the real worlds model of buying and selling goods today?

given that I do bulk of my shopping on amazon, occasionally supplemented by a few other online retailers, are you sure you want me to answer that question? you may not get the answer you are expecting.

the system as it is right now is a time sink. pointless time sink. plenty of MMO's on the market do NOT have this pointless time sink and do just fine in terms of their economies. I don't play a fantasy video game for a "realistic" experience anyways.

why the system sucks? my comment does mention it. it excludes anyone that is not a daily player/seller. it excludes people with limited playtime that don't have an hour to spend running around just to buy couple of items (the point of buying rather then farming btw, is to save that time you would have spent farming) UI is absolutely awful. and its far more exploitable than centralized trading whether its an auction with bids, or just straight up trading - is.

Yes, I'm asking cause its good conversation.

Lets use your comment about Amazon. and lets add in the possibilities that you can buy everything you want and need from Amazon exclusively. That doesn't eliminate other goods and services being purchased and sold by ....another website, multi level marketing concepts, another legitimate brick and motor building, as well as some lady or guy selling items at a tent or out the back of their cars/trucks legitimately.

I'll agree that using Amazon for you and some as well as having that experience in a game seems "best" but as we know, the rest of the world for reasons known and unknown use other legitimate ways to buy and sale goods and services.

The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.

Thoughts?

Rouven wrote: »

(...)

The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.

Thoughts?

I'd argue here that the world is indeed pushing. Where are the corner stores/mom and pop shops?
In many industries you will find that there is no local option to buy things - online is the only way.

If there was the option - like in the real world - for a global "online" competition shop - aka auction house - the majority of traders would be deserted. But the draconian government is suppressing free trade - lol.



How is it that we largely agree if we can do something with less clicks that is a good thing but not when it comes to trading.

@Rouven
Interesting as there are clearly communicated comments for and against in this thread as well as others.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to write, some in this game world are pushing rather than assuming some equate to all?

Rouven wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

(...)

The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.

Thoughts?

I'd argue here that the world is indeed pushing. Where are the corner stores/mom and pop shops?
In many industries you will find that there is no local option to buy things - online is the only way.

If there was the option - like in the real world - for a global "online" competition shop - aka auction house - the majority of traders would be deserted. But the draconian government is suppressing free trade - lol.



How is it that we largely agree if we can do something with less clicks that is a good thing but not when it comes to trading.

@Rouven
Interesting as there are clearly communicated comments for and against in this thread as well as others.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to write, some in this game world are pushing rather than assuming some equate to all?

Mh, I'd say it's more akin to pulling.

Like tug of war.

O K, so in tug of war as an analogy, I wouldn't like ZOS to add either side more help and as this is being discussed any actions they take does just that. Other than QoL items like updates to the UI to remove clutter or alow concise and quicker search and viewing. That QoL shouldn't be taken as to add access to view more store or zone viewing of traders.

I'm saying QoL as in if I'm at the Guild Bank, maybe I could have more than 5 Guilds to see, so in another thread I commented on the possibility of GL or GMs to have alliances which could open up someone to maybe 25 guild stores. That's QoL but changing traders.....doesn't seem the right way to look at QoL for gameplay on this in my opinion.