Thoughts regarding the Warden?

Vaoh · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Well if we use this type of ridiculous logic then in trials everything pans out like this:

• DK is currently #1 Stam DPS (and overall DPS) and historically the #1 Tank.
• Sorcerer is currently very close to Magicka NB, but essentially #2 Ranged DPS (still need at least one in raids for class buffs/nice AoE)
• NB is #1 Magicka Ranged DPS and gives offheals at the same time
• Templar has historically been the #1 Healer, and it's necessary to have one Stamplar to maintain PotL
• Warden is dead last DPS, meh for tanking, and significantly less potent at the Healer role than a Templar. They are ONLY used for the sake of using them by players who love the class. You will seldom see one on leaderboards and only for "fun" runs where anything is allowed.

DKs are absolute Masters of 2/3 roles right now. Templars are better Healers (no class really comes close tbh), better DPS, and slightly better tanks than Wardens while providing MORE Support to their group than a Warden would in all roles. Why does Warden have to be a "Master of None", when there are classes that are "Masters" at certain roles but still beat out Warden at the roles where Warden is supposed to surpass them?

The Warden is very buggy and a class that wasn't fully thought out. Like just take a look at the Winter's Embrace skill line.... it's a mess. The only roles a Warden can do well atm are Healer/Tank Hybrid or Healer/DPS Hybrid thanks to their Tree ult. No other reason. It will take a lot to fix this class assuming it's ever fixed. I haven't played since ESO launch, but I doubt a class was ever more unwanted than Warden is right now in endgame PvE.

How is a templar better than a Warden tank? Warden has health based and statir number based heals rather than scaling off max magica, so group off healing is a lot better. Can buff entire group resist and give them extra health which can help A LOT. Plus emergency trees. Trials is always going to be DK, but dungeons and stuff, outside of chains, warden is way more useful than a dk I'm.

Templar and Warden are in the same spot. Both underneath a DK.

In 4-man content anything goes. Doesn't matter if you're a Mag Warden DPS.

I'm talking about the part of the game where you actually optimize the group composition which is Vet trials (endgame PvE), since you actually want to succeed. Sure, a very good group can do a fun run where they allow whatever you want. If talking about what is actually used though there is an obvious issue when one class is left out of all roles.

Also Ice Cloak only hits 6 people. They don't even give the group extra health since the buff that passive provides is covered by Warhorn.... and the passive is bugged rn

Anhedonie · September 2017

Gulnagel wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Clunky animation, cast time, delayed abilities, lack of good smart targeted healing and lack of any utility makes wardens garbage in pve. Templar with warhorn will be more efficient.
If fungal growth had wider cone, healing seed was an aoe heal over time spell and if nature's gift restored 250 mag/stam to the target each time it's healed, then it could be a different story.

Yes, question is, when will we know if warden get a major buff, has zenimax adressed the issues?

Not before ZOS separates PvP and PvE balancing (no ETA on that).

White wabbit · September 2017

Stam warden in PvP is fun , Shame don't see that many the bounty is a knightmare to fill , And We do wot we want

Brrrofski · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Well if we use this type of ridiculous logic then in trials everything pans out like this:

• DK is currently #1 Stam DPS (and overall DPS) and historically the #1 Tank.
• Sorcerer is currently very close to Magicka NB, but essentially #2 Ranged DPS (still need at least one in raids for class buffs/nice AoE)
• NB is #1 Magicka Ranged DPS and gives offheals at the same time
• Templar has historically been the #1 Healer, and it's necessary to have one Stamplar to maintain PotL
• Warden is dead last DPS, meh for tanking, and significantly less potent at the Healer role than a Templar. They are ONLY used for the sake of using them by players who love the class. You will seldom see one on leaderboards and only for "fun" runs where anything is allowed.

DKs are absolute Masters of 2/3 roles right now. Templars are better Healers (no class really comes close tbh), better DPS, and slightly better tanks than Wardens while providing MORE Support to their group than a Warden would in all roles. Why does Warden have to be a "Master of None", when there are classes that are "Masters" at certain roles but still beat out Warden at the roles where Warden is supposed to surpass them?

The Warden is very buggy and a class that wasn't fully thought out. Like just take a look at the Winter's Embrace skill line.... it's a mess. The only roles a Warden can do well atm are Healer/Tank Hybrid or Healer/DPS Hybrid thanks to their Tree ult. No other reason. It will take a lot to fix this class assuming it's ever fixed. I haven't played since ESO launch, but I doubt a class was ever more unwanted than Warden is right now in endgame PvE.

How is a templar better than a Warden tank? Warden has health based and statir number based heals rather than scaling off max magica, so group off healing is a lot better. Can buff entire group resist and give them extra health which can help A LOT. Plus emergency trees. Trials is always going to be DK, but dungeons and stuff, outside of chains, warden is way more useful than a dk I'm.

Templar and Warden are in the same spot. Both underneath a DK.

In 4-man content anything goes. Doesn't matter if you're a Mag Warden DPS.

I'm talking about the part of the game where you actually optimize the group composition which is Vet trials (endgame PvE), since you actually want to succeed. Sure, a very good group can do a fun run where they allow whatever you want. If talking about what is actually used though there is an obvious issue when one class is left out of all roles.

Also Ice Cloak only hits 6 people. They don't even give the group extra health since the buff that passive provides is covered by Warhorn.... and the passive is bugged rn

Well a templar tank is no good there either. It's DK DK DK. So you must be on about a templar being better in 4 man. I think warden far outshines it.

Yeh, Maturation passive being bugged is really annoying. But it does have potentially 100% uptime unlike warhorn.

GreenhaloX · September 2017

Needs a better damage shield.. Only complaint I have, since I'm a lonewolf.

Gulnagel · September 2017

I didn't expect so many people to be as disappointed in the warden as I am.

Dakmor_Kavu · September 2017

Gotta say as someone who mains warden healer, I really really like them be it in 4man or vet trials.

When it comes to raw healing and keeping folks on their feet, warden honestly has zero issue. Yes BOL is nice, but it's not necessary for successful healing (and warden budding seeds can arguably be better many times), so this isn't something that I think limits their ability to be an "end game" healer. The arguments suggesting warden healers have a hard time keeping people alive and are thus sub par compared to templars is a poor one I imo.

The single biggest thing that does put a warden behind a Templar? Their ability to offer offensive buffs. For a true support specialist they are surprisingly lacking in this. My number one suggestion would simply be to revamp passives, and give fungal bloom a unique offensive buff to augment/compliment combat prayer.

A good second option be to reexamine both leeching vines, and lotus. Both are ok, but fall short for me in that they only provide now raw healing, which is NOT what a warden lacks. If vines had a magika or stamina steal morph instead that could be huge, or if lotus didn't heal a single target (really...1 Target?) But instead procd a debuff on any target hit while active, that would also allow the warden to provide more interesting and meaningful support.

Fix the few bugs warden has (passives not working, netch purge etc), give it a unique offensive buff with fungal bloom, and I think it would be highly desirable in a group. Looking at vines and lotus would be icing on the cake.

Gulnagel · September 2017

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

Gotta say as someone who mains warden healer, I really really like them be it in 4man or vet trials.

When it comes to raw healing and keeping folks on their feet, warden honestly has zero issue. Yes BOL is nice, but it's not necessary for successful healing (and warden budding seeds can arguably be better many times), so this isn't something that I think limits their ability to be an "end game" healer. The arguments suggesting warden healers have a hard time keeping people alive and are thus sub par compared to templars is a poor one I imo.

The single biggest thing that does put a warden behind a Templar? Their ability to offer offensive buffs. For a true support specialist they are surprisingly lacking in this. My number one suggestion would simply be to revamp passives, and give fungal bloom a unique offensive buff to augment/compliment combat prayer.

A good second option be to reexamine both leeching vines, and lotus. Both are ok, but fall short for me in that they only provide now raw healing, which is NOT what a warden lacks. If vines had a magika or stamina steal morph instead that could be huge, or if lotus didn't heal a single target (really...1 Target?) But instead procd a debuff on any target hit while active, that would also allow the warden to provide more interesting and meaningful support.

Fix the few bugs warden has (passives not working, netch purge etc), give it a unique offensive buff with fungal bloom, and I think it would be highly desirable in a group. Looking at vines and lotus would be icing on the cake.

I like were this is going. And you are right about the raw healing numbers, however in a non coordinated group people will die more, simply because warden depends on stacking your team.

They should make the spread on enchanted growth much bigger, if not a little like BoL but with pollen or something.

Dakmor_Kavu · September 2017

Gulnagel wrote: »

I like were this is going. And you are right about the raw healing numbers, however in a non coordinated group people will die more, simply because warden depends on stacking your team.

They should make the spread on enchanted growth much bigger, if not a little like BoL but with pollen or something.

I would be 100% ok with the trade-off being "ease of healing vs utility provided". This would mean a larger up front learning curve on how to heal with Warden, but ultimately more group utility once mastered. The main thing is getting more buffs (or debuffs) into the wardens arsenal.

Making healing easier would just again be a secondary bonus, for me it stands as a nice trade off in many ways.

red_emu · September 2017

Welcome to the life of BUGden

...We are working on fixes. Please wait 52 to 104 weeks for the class to work as intended. We appreciate your patience...

PlagueSD · September 2017

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Gamephriek · September 2017

I am probably going to get trolled non stop for what i am about to post but here goes anyways.

I see a lot of posts revolving around the same things, "Best role here" and "bugged there", but in my humble opinion i believe that "Best Role" for a class means nothing if the player controlling isn't worried about topping charts or best in slot gear or some other best of. Some play the game just to have fun and enjoy creating their characters, making a custom build as they progress through the stories, and do just fine or better than the perfect meta race/class combo/champion pts distro/skill point selection the streamers and gifted use, all the while crushing content and hanging out with friends. And as for the bugs? We all knew they were coming. I mean when was the last time any game released and didn't have more than a few?

I am currently leveling a Warden and am enjoying it very much. I find that while it may not be 1st in any of roles all the time, I believe it is a lot closer than what people may be thinking. I believe the added utility helps make up for that.

In short, as some have said and all are aware of, it's still a new class compared to the others and will take some time to fit in.

Dakmor_Kavu · September 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

At work so I can't watch, but if that's the video of the "super tank warden pvp build that can't really threaten anyone" that made the rounds a while back, it's ok, but really not relevant to any pve warden buff discussion, especially when they perform very differently in PvP vs pve (just look at DPS for example, or trial healing where you don't just heal by throwing around the tree ultimate).

PvP nobody is asking for big changes. Group utility in pve though is in drastic need of help, as is pve dps.

Edit:
PvP video only shows they can soak up damage, too bad there's more to pve tanking than that. It shows they can put out raw healing, nobody is saying they can't. There's more to healing pve than that. And in PvP yes they can do good DPS... But to bad it's very clear they don't in pve.

Gulnagel · September 2017

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

At work so I can't watch, but if that's the video of the "super tank warden pvp build that can't really threaten anyone" that made the rounds a while back, it's ok, but really not relevant to any pve warden buff discussion, especially when they perform very differently in PvP vs pve (just look at DPS for example, or trial healing where you don't just heal by throwing around the tree ultimate).

PvP nobody is asking for big changes. Group utility in pve though is in drastic need of help, as is pve dps.

Edit:
PvP video only shows they can soak up damage, too bad there's more to pve tanking than that. It shows they can put out raw healing, nobody is saying they can't. There's more to healing pve than that. And in PvP yes they can do good DPS... But to bad it's very clear they don't in pve.

Agree

SanTii.92 · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Clunky animation, cast time, delayed abilities, lack of good smart targeted healing and lack of any utility makes wardens garbage in pve. Templar with warhorn will be more efficient.
If fungal growth had wider cone, healing seed was an aoe heal over time spell and if nature's gift restored 250 mag/stam to the target each time it's healed, then it could be a different story.

Yes, question is, when will we know if warden get a major buff, has zenimax adressed the issues?

ZOS doesn't care about the warden. It was just a cash grab. They sold Morrowind to a bunch of suckers (like myself) who bought the expansion because of the new class. No reason to work on it anymore now that the money has been made.

Nah, this is just straight up ridiculous. We just didn't have a class balance patch yet since pre morrowind.

SanTii.92 · September 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Video means nothing mate, same can be achieved with any other class when fighting pugs. And this thread concerns are more about pve than pvp.

Emmagoldman · September 2017

I dont pve that often, but does it have to be the BEST in a role or could it fill other roles such as off heals and tanking ect. I think the game was created with three roles and three classes to fit them but does the warden fit a sythensis of tank and healing? For example, is it worth having 1 during trials? Im asking again, as someone who generally doesnt do end game pve and honestly i dont know if always its about the best healer.

In pvp, it has a good place. In groups, you may not have "the best" for dps, healer, tank" ect but think of roles in a larger sense such as snare, buffing, interupt ect. My stam dk was built to chase down people kiting, snare them, so the team would hit them.

PlagueSD · September 2017

Gulnagel wrote: »

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

At work so I can't watch, but if that's the video of the "super tank warden pvp build that can't really threaten anyone" that made the rounds a while back, it's ok, but really not relevant to any pve warden buff discussion, especially when they perform very differently in PvP vs pve (just look at DPS for example, or trial healing where you don't just heal by throwing around the tree ultimate).

PvP nobody is asking for big changes. Group utility in pve though is in drastic need of help, as is pve dps.

Edit:
PvP video only shows they can soak up damage, too bad there's more to pve tanking than that. It shows they can put out raw healing, nobody is saying they can't. There's more to healing pve than that. And in PvP yes they can do good DPS... But to bad it's very clear they don't in pve.

Agree

20:1 kill ratio, 1.9mil damage output. Only 95k healing, so wasn't putting out a lot of healing...

Waffennacht · September 2017

@plagueSD that's the only match I've seen with that build... I want more info!

I want to see it on the arenas that are less open

70k health isn't going anywhere - that makes sense

Skoria is also obvious

Artic - didn't know it curved up that much on health - potentially 4k per tick (based on what was said) and in PvP - this is pretty informative here

Caltrops - esp if they are stacking makes sense

Or shards - that'll do like 0 DMG but triggers skoria (imo unless using gripping soul trap may be better)

But my problem comes with - it's all AoE and Skoria, why aren't enemies just kiting?

Dakmor_Kavu · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

But my problem comes with - it's all AoE and Skoria, why aren't enemies just kiting?

My guess would be it's the same reason you don't see more videos of this build: Because even beginner pvp folks learned to avoid the tank build that just sits dropping aoes around it.

Good for a few goes until it's very clear to just look elsewhere.

And again, a build like that still has all the pve limitations we've discussed for warden. Pve dps sucks, and little group utility as either a tank, or healer. The build has impressive self sustain but that's not what pve is about (short of vma), which is where warden could use some love.

Gulnagel · September 2017

I must clarify, my post wasn't oriented around PvP because I know warden can hold it's own there.

I'm focused around PvE and to some extent you need to do PvE, veteran dungeons, trials and so on to be able to get good gear that you can if you want to, use in PvP, right?

What we have here is a class that is jack of all trades master of nothing. Warden equals an emergency pick if something better doesn't come along.

4 healers standing by for a veteran trial, two wardens and to templars. You choose two templars. Yes you do. Bringing a templar and warden healer is not better than two templars. Bring two wardens and watch the world burn. Just because you CAN do it with an experienced team does not equal good.

4 tanks two DK and two wardens. You bring what?

And for dps, you got sorcerers, nightblades, templars geared out waiting, you won't pick a warden, just no.

And remember healer and tanks isn't a very popular role, the 2 sec qutimes is a giveaway and considering most players tend to lean on the dps side of things especially new players. They will quit warden before even giving it a chance as a healer or tank. If not quit eso, wouldn't surprise me.

Waffennacht · September 2017

You bring a warden to PvE because they make the terrain much more pretty.

The green trees are just beautiful, the Netch is kinda cute, plus - dancing

Tryxus · September 2017

I dropped my MagBlade and remade him into a MagDen when Morrowind dropped with the intent of turning him into a healer. And after healing both Vet Trial (including HM) and PvP Groups, I'm not disappointed at all. I'm happy with the way the class turned out, even though it's still buggy

A Warden's Healing Output is really good, having access to 4 burst heals with the 2 most used ones in PvE being Enchanted Growth and Budding Seeds. Combined with Resto Staff skills, Warhorn, Purge and Orbs, you can put together a very nice healer that I believe is only slighty inferior to the Templar.

However, there's always room for improvement. And I think in the Warden's case, 2 things come to mind:

- Minor Toughness: either Warhorn needs to give its own HP buff which would stack with Minor Toughness, or the Warden needs a different buff. Preferably an offensive one, which might help with the class' DPS a bit
- Budding Seeds/Corrupting Pollen: the Warden already provides strong heals. Changing the synergy of this skill to provide a buff (to those inside the skill area) instead would be better

Waffennacht · September 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

I dropped my MagBlade and remade him into a MagDen when Morrowind dropped with the intent of turning him into a healer. And after healing both Vet Trial (including HM) and PvP Groups, I'm not disappointed at all. I'm happy with the way the class turned out, even though it's still buggy

A Warden's Healing Output is really good, having access to 4 burst heals with the 2 most used ones in PvE being Enchanted Growth and Budding Seeds. Combined with Resto Staff skills, Warhorn, Purge and Orbs, you can put together a very nice healer that I believe is only slighty inferior to the Templar.

However, there's always room for improvement. And I think in the Warden's case, 2 things come to mind:

- Minor Toughness: either Warhorn needs to give its own HP buff which would stack with Minor Toughness, or the Warden needs a different buff. Preferably an offensive one, which might help with the class' DPS a bit
- Budding Seeds/Corrupting Pollen: the Warden already provides strong heals. Changing the synergy of this skill to provide a buff (to those inside the skill area) instead would be better

I dunno about changing budding seeds, in PvP it's pretty clutch to have an ally trigger the HoT and then hit budding for a spot heal on them.

Megabear · September 2017

POps75p wrote: »

bench warmer!!!

go to in nothing!!!

I think my bench is on fire.

cpuScientist · September 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

I dropped my MagBlade and remade him into a MagDen when Morrowind dropped with the intent of turning him into a healer. And after healing both Vet Trial (including HM) and PvP Groups, I'm not disappointed at all. I'm happy with the way the class turned out, even though it's still buggy

A Warden's Healing Output is really good, having access to 4 burst heals with the 2 most used ones in PvE being Enchanted Growth and Budding Seeds. Combined with Resto Staff skills, Warhorn, Purge and Orbs, you can put together a very nice healer that I believe is only slighty inferior to the Templar.

However, there's always room for improvement. And I think in the Warden's case, 2 things come to mind:

- Minor Toughness: either Warhorn needs to give its own HP buff which would stack with Minor Toughness, or the Warden needs a different buff. Preferably an offensive one, which might help with the class' DPS a bit
- Budding Seeds/Corrupting Pollen: the Warden already provides strong heals. Changing the synergy of this skill to provide a buff (to those inside the skill area) instead would be better

In trials tree is crap in 4 man's tree is crap. You will use warhorn in trials and lights champion in 4 man's. Both give offensive buffs to your group. Tree just heals. All they can do is raw healing. That's not the only part of a healers job lol. You have to BUFF the group. Shards are stupidly amazing for waker sustain allowing for that healer to not have to go crazy in Regen. MagPlar healer is superior wholly so. DK tank is superior in trials, the only place a warden competes is in 4 man tanking if they wear war machine tavah bloodspawn and spam trees. And even then it is not that much better than a do shield tank.

In PvP they are good, not better than Sorc for mag. They are really good stam though stanDK is a little more robust imo but the StamDen is great truly one of the top in PvP that's it lol.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

You guys aren't doing it right. My two buddies and me (all wardens) can tank, heal, and DPS just fine. In fact, my buddy that plays healer warden has ended up tanking, dps, AND healing in bad PUG groups.

Dungeons are one thing, trials are another. You can carry vet dungeons with 20k DPS.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Well if we use this type of ridiculous logic then in trials everything pans out like this:

• DK is currently #1 Stam DPS (and overall DPS) and historically the #1 Tank.
• Sorcerer is currently very close to Magicka NB, but essentially #2 Ranged DPS (still need at least one in raids for class buffs/nice AoE)
• NB is #1 Magicka Ranged DPS and gives offheals at the same time
• Templar has historically been the #1 Healer, and it's necessary to have one Stamplar to maintain PotL
• Warden is dead last DPS, meh for tanking, and significantly less potent at the Healer role than a Templar. They are ONLY used for the sake of using them by players who love the class. You will seldom see one on leaderboards and only for "fun" runs where anything is allowed.

DKs are absolute Masters of 2/3 roles right now. Templars are better Healers (no class really comes close tbh), better DPS, and slightly better tanks than Wardens while providing MORE Support to their group than a Warden would in all roles. Why does Warden have to be a "Master of None", when there are classes that are "Masters" at certain roles but still beat out Warden at the roles where Warden is supposed to surpass them?

The Warden is very buggy and a class that wasn't fully thought out. Like just take a look at the Winter's Embrace skill line.... it's a mess. The only roles a Warden can do well atm are Healer/Tank Hybrid or Healer/DPS Hybrid thanks to their Tree ult. No other reason. It will take a lot to fix this class assuming it's ever fixed. I haven't played since ESO launch, but I doubt a class was ever more unwanted than Warden is right now in endgame PvE.

An overhaul to Winter's Embrace will majorly help their DPS. Giving them AoE HoTs (besides an Ult which is spent on Warhorn), cutting the Class skill-only restrictions from their passives, and allowing them to support their *group* with buffs/debuffs that are unique to Warden would help Support roles. Also fix all of the bugs.

I bet it'll take at least 1 year before a Warden is taken for their DPS... At least in PvP a few skills can carry the class.

It should also be noted that templar was the top DPS class for like 6+ months last year (until ZOS nerfed their execute). They were top healer and top DPS, just like DK is top tank and top DPS now. There is no such thing as a designated "support class" in this game. People need to stop using that as an argument to explain why warden sucks (they aren't even top supports).

I took a tally of how many times warden appears in top-100 leader boards a few weeks ago (PC/NA):

HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

Those numbers are absolutely inexcusable. The class is a joke in PvE. Sure they're okay healers and tanks, but they aren't nearly good enough to take ahead of templar and DK. And their DPS is 7-8k behind every other magicka DPS class (warden tops out at 28-29k DPS while all other magicka classes can hit 34-37k). Stamina warden deals okay damage, but they still get outclassed by everyone else.

Vaoh · September 2017

Dakmor_Kavu wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

At work so I can't watch, but if that's the video of the "super tank warden pvp build that can't really threaten anyone" that made the rounds a while back, it's ok, but really not relevant to any pve warden buff discussion, especially when they perform very differently in PvP vs pve (just look at DPS for example, or trial healing where you don't just heal by throwing around the tree ultimate).

PvP nobody is asking for big changes. Group utility in pve though is in drastic need of help, as is pve dps.

Edit:
PvP video only shows they can soak up damage, too bad there's more to pve tanking than that. It shows they can put out raw healing, nobody is saying they can't. There's more to healing pve than that. And in PvP yes they can do good DPS... But to bad it's very clear they don't in pve.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Every time I see a "Wardens need to be buffed" thread, I have to post this video (not my warden). Wardens don't suck. It's just since it's a new class, people haven't learned how to best play them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Video means nothing mate, same can be achieved with any other class when fighting pugs. And this thread concerns are more about pve than pvp.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gulnagel · September 2017

No info on a buff for Warden?