Thoughts regarding the Warden?

Gulnagel

Hi, I made a warden healer when morrowind released, I main a templar healer.

At first I liked the warden as a healer, but compared to templar it just doesn't cut it. Warden is slow and clunky in the animations, you have to aim the burstheals and in a non coordinated group that is a nightmare. Warden relies on the PvP cleanse ability. Wardens passive wich gives 10% more HP for 10 seconds is now broken, it now constantly activates even before the first 10 seconds of the bufftimer has ended, that leaves your teammates going up and down in HP all the time never really be art 100% health and that makes SPC set useless.

The bluebetty won't cleanse any negative effects from yourself, if you have more than 1 on you it just won't work.

I'm not here to argue who's the best healer templar or warden because there isn't really anything to argue about, warden falls short in every aspect, I made a poll a while back asking people's opinions on who's the best healer between the two and templar completely curbstomped warden and that is when warden is working as intended without the passive Bering broken and the bluebetty cleanse bugg.

This will be adressed on the warden im sure that the passive will work again and all.

However warden will still fall short. I'm not sure what will happen to the class in the future.

What do you think will happen to the warden in terms of making it viable? Will they make warden a viable healer? Will they fix the dps for PvE? Will they do something with the ice tree so we can do a ice mage?

What do you guys think will make warden a first choice healer or tank or dps? If not first choice atleast as good healer as templar, as good dps as nightblade or as good tank as the dragonknight?

stewhead2ub17_ESO

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

scipionumatia

The utility it offers is great though.

Mojmir

Its quite awkward playing mag warden as a Dps in pve.

Gulnagel

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Where does it says so? If that is the case fine, but then warden will never be used competitive in trials and speedruns.

Phinix1

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

That doesn't explain the Maturation bug or the several Betty bugs though, which do need fixing.

Bugs need attention from devs regardless of the class.

Also, the idea of certain classes having certain 'intended roles' is a myth.

Intended by whom?

Gulnagel

scipionumatia wrote: »

The utility it offers is great though.

No it's not, warhorn does the same as wardens passives.

Anhedonie

Clunky animation, cast time, delayed abilities, lack of good smart targeted healing and lack of any utility makes wardens garbage in pve. Templar with warhorn will be more efficient.
If fungal growth had wider cone, healing seed was an aoe heal over time spell and if nature's gift restored 250 mag/stam to the target each time it's healed, then it could be a different story.

Gulnagel

Anhedonie wrote: »

Clunky animation, cast time, delayed abilities, lack of good smart targeted healing and lack of any utility makes wardens garbage in pve. Templar with warhorn will be more efficient.
If fungal growth had wider cone, healing seed was an aoe heal over time spell and if nature's gift restored 250 mag/stam to the target each time it's healed, then it could be a different story.

Yes, question is, when will we know if warden get a major buff, has zenimax adressed the issues?

Waffennacht

In PvE I would rather be a tank/off something else and that's just for 4 man content (dps works too but isn't as much fun imo - not viable for trials tho)

In PvP people just don't have the feel for it. My Warden doesn't feel clunky to me at all, but I've been using one since release

Lieblingsjunge

Warden is poop in PvE end-game, decent in PvP.

MLGProPlayer

Warden is a good healer and tank. But templar and DK are still the best at those roles.

They are a terrible magicka DPS class (don't use them in this role unless you hate yourself) and an okay stamina DPS.

MLGProPlayer

Gulnagel wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Clunky animation, cast time, delayed abilities, lack of good smart targeted healing and lack of any utility makes wardens garbage in pve. Templar with warhorn will be more efficient.
If fungal growth had wider cone, healing seed was an aoe heal over time spell and if nature's gift restored 250 mag/stam to the target each time it's healed, then it could be a different story.

Yes, question is, when will we know if warden get a major buff, has zenimax adressed the issues?

ZOS doesn't care about the warden. It was just a cash grab. They sold Morrowind to a bunch of suckers (like myself) who bought the expansion because of the new class. No reason to work on it anymore now that the money has been made.

MLGProPlayer

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Wrong. No class is meant to fill any specific role.

And Warden is highly underused even in the support role (almost all of the top teams run with 2x templar, 2x DK).

stewhead2ub17_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Wrong. No class is meant to fill any specific role.

And Warden is highly underused even in the support role (almost all of the top teams run with 2x templar, 2x DK).

@MLGProPlayer this is from ESO itself about the Warden Class:

"The Warden class is an adaptable, support-orientated option for players who want to be able to fill a specific role while simultaneously providing assistance to others."
Apology accepted.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Gulnagel wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Where does it says so? If that is the case fine, but then warden will never be used competitive in trials and speedruns.

@Gulnagel : From ESO itself "The Warden class is an adaptable, support-orientated option for players who want to be able to fill a specific role while simultaneously providing assistance to others."

Phinix1

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

@MLGProPlayer this is from ESO itself about the Warden Class:

"The Warden class is an adaptable, support-orientated option for players who want to be able to fill a specific role while simultaneously providing assistance to others."
Apology accepted.

Specific roles are: Tank, Healer, DPS.

I suppose you are interpreting this to mean something else? Or are you assuming that, while they SAY it is meant to fill any specific role (like all classes), this sentence is somehow implying 'between the lines' that it is intentionally meant to be weaker at those roles because it is also providing support?

Please explain where ZOS has said here or elsewhere about this or any class that it is intended by them to be weaker at any/all of the primary roles? I believe this is 100% an assumption on your part with no basis in game mechanics. No offense intended.

They could just as easily have said about Templar: "...an adaptable, healing-oriented option for players who want to be able to fill a specific role while having strong class-based healing options available." It doesn't mean Templar is WEAK at other roles (in fact magicka Templar is one of the top DPS classes in the game).

ALL classes are designed to be able to fill all roles. Some like Templar have an entire skill tree devoted to healing, as does the Warden. Some like DK have an entire tree devoted largely to tanking.

Rather than assume any given class is intended by ZOS to be weaker at a specific role, it seems more reasonable that certain classes have various unique STRENGTHS which set them apart and allow them to excel at certain of these roles. This is the whole idea of "class identity" which ZOS has tried to maintain; that all classes have their own unique benefits and 'feel' to the playstyle.

Regardless, ALL classes have AT LEAST one skill tree devoted entirely to DPS, and are intended to adequately fill that role. If any class is under-performing in DPS, they will be buffed. If they are over-performing, they will be nerfed. All classes however are meant to be relatively equal when it comes to DPS.

Anyone saying otherwise is just spreading wrong or pessimistic information.

Granted the time it has taken ZOS to fix Warden bugs and bring Magicka Warden DPS in particular up to the level of every other DPS class in the game is not helping dissuade the naysayers from spreading it.

SodanTok

There is no need to debate whether it is supposed to be weaker or not, because it offers support.... because it does not offers support.

It has defensive support. That comes from tanking and healing skills. It has no offensive support to explain lack of damage.
(like "when using animal comp skills, reduce targets resistance by x per animal ability slotted" or smth)

cpuScientist

Gulnagel wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Where does it says so? If that is the case fine, but then warden will never be used competitive in trials and speedruns.

They are not used in those roles that is correct. They are only good tanks in 4 man content, I'd take them over a DK there tbh. Give them war machine and tavah with bloodspawn, have them drop trees on cooldown and they will buff the group fantastically, while also keeping them healed. In 4 man's I'd rather a Templar healer though as tree does not give any offensive bonus like restoration staff ult does, and breath is a far better heal than everything in the MagWarden kit. Stam dps is fine but another stamDK or a StamPlar would be better. Mag dps is atrocious.

SydneyGrey

I'm a big fan of the tree ultimate and Frost Cloak, but otherwise, agree with a lot of what the OP said.

Tasear

Phinix1 wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

That doesn't explain the Maturation bug or the several Betty bugs though, which do need fixing.

Bugs need attention from devs regardless of the class.

Also, the idea of certain classes having certain 'intended roles' is a myth.

Intended by whom?

I hope they get before it's not too late for their reputation as healers. Some people still believe orginal bugs for Sorc healer. But back on point the warden isn't a Templar healer it's a warden healer so you will need to learn a different play style.

scipionumatia

@Gulnagel I meant in pvp. They have amazing burst and self heals and do very well in battlegrounds and IC

POps75p

bench warmer!!!

go to in nothing!!!

PlagueSD

You guys aren't doing it right. My two buddies and me (all wardens) can tank, heal, and DPS just fine. In fact, my buddy that plays healer warden has ended up tanking, dps, AND healing in bad PUG groups.

Sneaky-Snurr

Be thankful to @Wrobel's apparent and unfathomable 'wisdom' that the Warden has an undodgable skill a.k.a cliff racers.
His reasoning for this skill being undodgable opened up a new lower level of stupidity.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Member when everyone was crying for Templar healers in PVE bc of their major mending nerf and warden major ending? I member.

Member when eso streamer had Templar funeral? I member

Member how fickle people are? I member

Gulnagel

I'm very disappointed in how warden turned out.

And warden is in need of a serious buff. I'm not saying it should be best in all roles, I'm saying it should not be so underwhelming to it's counterparts.

MakoFore

its meant to be a support class not a sole healer. not sure about pve- but in pvp - having a warden in a group is a must have now- every player can gets so much benefit out of having them in a BG group,

Vaoh

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Well if we use this type of ridiculous logic then in trials everything pans out like this:

• DK is currently #1 Stam DPS (and overall DPS) and historically the #1 Tank.
• Sorcerer is currently very close to Magicka NB, but essentially #2 Ranged DPS (still need at least one in raids for class buffs/nice AoE)
• NB is #1 Magicka Ranged DPS and gives offheals at the same time
• Templar has historically been the #1 Healer, and it's necessary to have one Stamplar to maintain PotL
• Warden is dead last DPS, meh for tanking, and significantly less potent at the Healer role than a Templar. They are ONLY used for the sake of using them by players who love the class. You will seldom see one on leaderboards and only for "fun" runs where anything is allowed.

DKs are absolute Masters of 2/3 roles right now. Templars are better Healers (no class really comes close tbh), better DPS, and slightly better tanks than Wardens while providing MORE Support to their group than a Warden would in all roles. Why does Warden have to be a "Master of None", when there are classes that are "Masters" at certain roles but still beat out Warden at the roles where Warden is supposed to surpass them?

The Warden is very buggy and a class that wasn't fully thought out. Like just take a look at the Winter's Embrace skill line.... it's a mess. The only roles a Warden can do well atm are Healer/Tank Hybrid or Healer/DPS Hybrid thanks to their Tree ult. No other reason. It will take a lot to fix this class assuming it's ever fixed. I haven't played since ESO launch, but I doubt a class was ever more unwanted than Warden is right now in endgame PvE.

An overhaul to Winter's Embrace will majorly help their DPS. Giving them AoE HoTs (besides an Ult which is spent on Warhorn), cutting the Class skill-only restrictions from their passives, and allowing them to support their *group* with buffs/debuffs that are unique to Warden would help Support roles. Also fix all of the bugs.

I bet it'll take at least 1 year before a Warden is taken for their DPS... At least in PvP a few skills can carry the class.

Brrrofski

I heal in PvP on it and I prefer it to templar. Support and buffs/debuffs it can offer is nice. But I heal 4 man content on a sorc anyway...

Stam warden in PvP though is awesome.

Brrrofski

Vaoh wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

You realize that the Warden was meant to be a support class? A jack of all trades master of none type.

Well if we use this type of ridiculous logic then in trials everything pans out like this:

• DK is currently #1 Stam DPS (and overall DPS) and historically the #1 Tank.
• Sorcerer is currently very close to Magicka NB, but essentially #2 Ranged DPS (still need at least one in raids for class buffs/nice AoE)
• NB is #1 Magicka Ranged DPS and gives offheals at the same time
• Templar has historically been the #1 Healer, and it's necessary to have one Stamplar to maintain PotL
• Warden is dead last DPS, meh for tanking, and significantly less potent at the Healer role than a Templar. They are ONLY used for the sake of using them by players who love the class. You will seldom see one on leaderboards and only for "fun" runs where anything is allowed.

DKs are absolute Masters of 2/3 roles right now. Templars are better Healers (no class really comes close tbh), better DPS, and slightly better tanks than Wardens while providing MORE Support to their group than a Warden would in all roles. Why does Warden have to be a "Master of None", when there are classes that are "Masters" at certain roles but still beat out Warden at the roles where Warden is supposed to surpass them?

The Warden is very buggy and a class that wasn't fully thought out. Like just take a look at the Winter's Embrace skill line.... it's a mess. The only roles a Warden can do well atm are Healer/Tank Hybrid or Healer/DPS Hybrid thanks to their Tree ult. No other reason. It will take a lot to fix this class assuming it's ever fixed. I haven't played since ESO launch, but I doubt a class was ever more unwanted than Warden is right now in endgame PvE.

How is a templar better than a Warden tank? Warden has health based and static number based heals rather than scaling off max magica (plus heals from heavy attacks which you need to do anyway), so group off healing is a lot better. Can buff entire group's resist and give them extra health which can help A LOT. Plus emergency trees. Trials is always going to be DK, but dungeons and stuff, outside of chains, warden is way more useful than a dk imo