Option to remove vampire OR make disguises visible on the character selection screen

Everstorm · September 2017

Niobium wrote: »

If one of the folks who are adamantly against the change could tell me why the colour of my skin matters so much to them, that would be great, thanks!

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Niobium · September 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Sure - whether you have scales or a tail impacts me absolutely zero. I neither know you nor care what toon you play.

So again, why does the colour of my skin matter to anyone but me?

Subversus · September 2017

Niobium wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Sure - whether you have scales or a tail impacts me absolutely zero. I neither know you nor care what toon you play.

So again, why does the colour of my skin matter to anyone but me?

Exactly. This impacts nobody but make the little jealous pricks mad.

@Everstorm I hope you aren't like this irl because, solely based on the posts you make on this forum, you look like you have a vile personality. Hope you find some empathy in your life if I truly feel sorry for you.

Everstorm · September 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Sure - whether you have scales or a tail impacts me absolutely zero. I neither know you nor care what toon you play.

So again, why does the colour of my skin matter to anyone but me?

Exactly. This impacts nobody but make the little jealous pricks mad.

@Everstorm I hope you aren't like this irl because, solely based on the posts you make on this forum, you look like you have a vile personality. Hope you find some empathy in your life if I truly feel sorry for you.

Thanks for your concern/personal attack but I'm more the gentle giant type.
The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

Niobium · September 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else.

So how does the colour of my skin impact your immersion? I'm not playing with you, I don't interact with you, if you pass me in the street you wouldn't look twice, regardless if my skin was black or vampire white.

I can understand that you would want it for yourself - if you are a vampire you want to look the part, for you.

So, how would a toggle changing my character look impact you? How would you even know? Why does it matter?

Thogard · September 2017

Get an achievement skin you peasant.

MornaBaine · September 2017

Thogard wrote: »

Get an achievement skin you peasant.

Most of us would but sadly all the skins are even uglier than the vamp ones.

Orjix · September 2017

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

And for the 25916062nd time it's a curse... It always has been and always will be part of the elder scrolles lore. If you don't like it simply cure yourself. Or would you prefer all the townspeople run in fear and guards attack you at stage 4? Because they could have just made it like that instead.

Or make it so during the day your health slowly depletes, but the developers were kind enough to spare you from that burden.

In fact compared to other Elder Scroll games having a pale skin and a weakness to Fire as the only drawbacks is a pretty good deal. But some people always have that give me, give me, I'm entitled attitude.

What about morrowind where the vampire appearance change happened only to the eyes, it can be done so your character still can look good

Runschei · September 2017

Thunderclap wrote: »

If you don't like the look you can wear a costum from a quest. I have one which hides the vamp look complete in-game.

That also hides all crown store hairstyles and other bought cosmetics, in addition to your beautiful armor.

Runschei · September 2017

Betheny wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Just wear a full-face mask hat and hide that ugly face. Problem solved

I spend 1 and a half hours in the character creation screen to wear a full-face mask? No thanks.

You already wrecked your face with vampirism, the mask is a mercy.

Good. Now you see why we want an option to hide it

Belegnole · September 2017

I do not believe that there should be an option to hide that you are undead.

On the other hand I do think that purchased skins, masks, helmets and armor should all work properly. That includes skins covering the vampire look, just like it covers every other character.

idk · September 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

If one of the folks who are adamantly against the change could tell me why the colour of my skin matters so much to them, that would be great, thanks!

What these guys don't realize is that most of us already bypass the skin by using disguises. I do, however, want to use some of the costumes I PAYED FOR instead of the ugly servant's robe but I can't, because no toggle option and I will not gimp myself by not being a vampire.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

The reality is we cannot always do what we want.

Abeille · September 2017

Time to post my FAQ regarding mortal-looking vampires again!

Abeille wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If you don't like the look of a vampire. Don't become one.

No need when it is perfectly possible from both a lore and a technical standpoint to be a vampire and look like a mortal.

There seems to be a lot of people who don't know about the lore.

Abeille wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Vampires are Vampires. They should look, act and be reacted to like a Vampire. That is Lore. You want to be a Vampire, look like one. If you don't want to look like a Vampire, then don't be one.

There is nothing lore-breaking about a vampire looking like a mortal.

This should be stickied at the top of every vampire thread. Maybe we wouldn't get so many "you don't like the look then don't become one" comments every time someone asks to look normal.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I typed this in the forums. Should put a FAQ in the OP of every thread like this.
(Read the answers like a Fallout announcement)

Q: But isn't it against the lore? Vampires should look like vampires!
A: No, fellow forum-goer! In fact, vampires are very interesting creatures. For starters, there are many different bloodlines, and they have some very specific abilities. Including, yes, hiding their vampiric appearance from mortals! Ohh, sneaky!

Q: But our bloodline doesn't have that ability!
A: Ah, but there is a little catch here! Lamae Bal did say her children hide among the mortals! Do you know what it means? Exactly! If we had this ability in game, it would be perfectly in line with that bit of dialogue that is already there!

Q: Okay but that can mean something else! Maybe she just meant they wear masks or something!
A: Don't worry, we've got you covered! We have some really funky magic in Tamriel, it is called... You guessed it! Illusion Magic! There are several things you can use Illusion Magic for: It can help you when you need your yelling child to calm down, or make the neighbor's dog bite his ankle for you! It can even convince your mother you already did the dishes! But most importantly, it can make you look like someone else, even like yourself before you became a vampire!

Q: But I don't know how to make magic! The tomes have no pictures and the mages are all so smug!
A: Fear not! We have professional enchanters that can offer you their impeccable services for a moderate but fair price! A piece of jewelry or a gem is all you need, and after having it enchanted, you can wear it whenever you need to pass as a mortal, or even as a goblin if that's more of your thing! Ah, the wonders of enchanting!

So stop posting without reading and find your ideal method TODAY!

Tasear · September 2017

Just saying werewovles...all we got left is our looks... On the hand yes please.

TheShadowScout · September 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Pale skin and red eyes is the price you pay for the power of the damned. If you can't pay the price then return to the realm of mortals.

Indeed!

Betheny wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Just wear a full-face mask hat and hide that ugly face. Problem solved

I spend 1 and a half hours in the character creation screen to wear a full-face mask? No thanks.

You already wrecked your face with vampirism, the mask is a mercy.

-gigglesnorts-

Of course, there IS a precedent for vampires using some way to appear mortal. Count Verandis Ravenwatch does it the first time you meet him after all...
...and I say, PC vampires shouold be able to do the same!
...
BUT... with some kind of drawback.
The easiest way would be an toggleable vampire skill... that way they gotta give up a skill slot for "mortal" looks.
Also possible might be an special ring, that way they give up a set slot for "mortal" looks.

And then... some more reasons for bloodsucking fiends to go all "masquerade" in tamriel. Like... say... town guards (yes, those unkillable law-and-order dudes and dudettes always on the lookout for criminal scum) going all "slay the monster" on vampires who let their vampyness hang out in town. Perhaps with a detection chance... say... 20% at stage one, 40% at stage 2, 80% at stage 3 and automatic at stage four...
...let them feel more like "monsters among mortals" then "characters with just an extra skill line"! (same would apply to werewolves who go all-out furry in town of course)

Balamoor · September 2017

Okay sure....Vamps can wear a disguise if they are only allowed out at night or powers are greatly diminished during the day.

in other words...listening to what the devs have said before this is never ever ever ever going to happen.

ever.

Abeille · September 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

Okay sure....Vamps can wear a disguise if they are only allowed out at night or powers are greatly diminished during the day.

in other words...listening to what the devs have said before this is never ever ever ever going to happen.

ever.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks @bhlegit! We're tracking this bug with another costume, so we'll add this costume to the list. (Also, the request to toggle the vampire skin visual effect is noted. )

MornaBaine · September 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Pale skin and red eyes is the price you pay for the power of the damned. If you can't pay the price then return to the realm of mortals.

Indeed!

Betheny wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Just wear a full-face mask hat and hide that ugly face. Problem solved

I spend 1 and a half hours in the character creation screen to wear a full-face mask? No thanks.

You already wrecked your face with vampirism, the mask is a mercy.

-gigglesnorts-

Of course, there IS a precedent for vampires using some way to appear mortal. Count Verandis Ravenwatch does it the first time you meet him after all...
...and I say, PC vampires shouold be able to do the same!
...
BUT... with some kind of drawback.
The easiest way would be an toggleable vampire skill... that way they gotta give up a skill slot for "mortal" looks.
Also possible might be an special ring, that way they give up a set slot for "mortal" looks.

And then... some more reasons for bloodsucking fiends to go all "masquerade" in tamriel. Like... say... town guards (yes, those unkillable law-and-order dudes and dudettes always on the lookout for criminal scum) going all "slay the monster" on vampires who let their vampyness hang out in town. Perhaps with a detection chance... say... 20% at stage one, 40% at stage 2, 80% at stage 3 and automatic at stage four...
...let them feel more like "monsters among mortals" then "characters with just an extra skill line"! (same would apply to werewolves who go all-out furry in town of course)

The justice system was originally intended to have guards react to transformed werewolves and Stage 4 vampires. I have never understood why they dropped that because I would have loved it and it would have been in-line with the previous TES games. Of course many of the same people who smugly say that "you have to look ugly because you chose to be a vampire" threw a fit about this proposal. Ironic, no?

Abeille · September 2017

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Pale skin and red eyes is the price you pay for the power of the damned. If you can't pay the price then return to the realm of mortals.

Indeed!

Betheny wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Just wear a full-face mask hat and hide that ugly face. Problem solved

I spend 1 and a half hours in the character creation screen to wear a full-face mask? No thanks.

You already wrecked your face with vampirism, the mask is a mercy.

-gigglesnorts-

Of course, there IS a precedent for vampires using some way to appear mortal. Count Verandis Ravenwatch does it the first time you meet him after all...
...and I say, PC vampires shouold be able to do the same!
...
BUT... with some kind of drawback.
The easiest way would be an toggleable vampire skill... that way they gotta give up a skill slot for "mortal" looks.
Also possible might be an special ring, that way they give up a set slot for "mortal" looks.

And then... some more reasons for bloodsucking fiends to go all "masquerade" in tamriel. Like... say... town guards (yes, those unkillable law-and-order dudes and dudettes always on the lookout for criminal scum) going all "slay the monster" on vampires who let their vampyness hang out in town. Perhaps with a detection chance... say... 20% at stage one, 40% at stage 2, 80% at stage 3 and automatic at stage four...
...let them feel more like "monsters among mortals" then "characters with just an extra skill line"! (same would apply to werewolves who go all-out furry in town of course)

The justice system was originally intended to have guards react to transformed werewolves and Stage 4 vampires. I have never understood why they dropped that because I would have loved it and it would have been in-line with the previous TES games. Of course many of the same people who smugly say that "you have to look ugly because you chose to be a vampire" threw a fit about this proposal. Ironic, no?

Yeah, I support having guards react to transformed werewolves and stage 4 vampires. And I do have a character that is permanently on stage 4 (I don't even want to hide her vampirism, I like it, it fits her, I just don't think it is fair to others to not have that option when it is perfectly lore-friendly).

Honestly, none of the arguments against implementing a way to hide vampirism hold any water. People just keep posting them because they do not read WHY they do not hold any water before posting. It's annoying, really.

Subversus · September 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Sure - whether you have scales or a tail impacts me absolutely zero. I neither know you nor care what toon you play.

So again, why does the colour of my skin matter to anyone but me?

Exactly. This impacts nobody but make the little jealous pricks mad.

@Everstorm I hope you aren't like this irl because, solely based on the posts you make on this forum, you look like you have a vile personality. Hope you find some empathy in your life if I truly feel sorry for you.

Thanks for your concern/personal attack but I'm more the gentle giant type.
The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

What don't you understand? I am already "breaking your immersion" by wearing a disguise to already hide my vampirism. How does my suggestion in the OP affect your already "broken immersion any more? I suggested

a) the disguise to appear in MY character selection screen

Or

b) being able to use other crown costumes instead of the disguise by the use of a hide vampirism option, which basically all it does is replace my disguise with something better looking.

So, @Everstorm , how do any of my two suggestions break your immersion?

Abeille · September 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

It is problematic when you are playing a game where part of its canonical lore (in this case, vampires being able to look like mortals) affect your immersion negatively. I would expect that people who clearly are vampires being treated the same way as people who are not would be what is immersion breaking.

Allowing vampires to disguise as mortals would not only be completely lore-friendly (read my FAQ for any concerns regarding it), but also it would make it possible to justify being treated as a mortal. "Oh it's okay, I'm disguised, he can't see I'm a vampire so that's why he is talking to me like that, it is totally not because the devs didn't program different lines for vampire PCs".

Therefore, it is the opposite of immersion-breaking. It is uh... Immersion-fixing?

Subversus · September 2017

Abeille wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

It is problematic when you are playing a game where part of its canonical lore (in this case, vampires being able to look like mortals) affect your immersion negatively. I would expect that people who clearly are vampires being treated the same way as people who are not would be what is immersion breaking.

Allowing vampires to disguise as mortals would not only be completely lore-friendly (read my FAQ for any concerns regarding it), but also it would make it possible to justify being treated as a mortal. "Oh it's okay, I'm disguised, he can't see I'm a vampire so that's why he is talking to me like that, it is totally not because the devs didn't program different lines for vampire PCs".

Therefore, it is the opposite of immersion-breaking. It is uh... Immersion-fixing?

Exactly, I don't know what's more lore breaking, vampires being disguised as mortals or NPCs admitting they hate/are disgusted by vampires in front of a stage 4 vampire.

@Everstorm what's up fam what else you got

Aliyavana · September 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

I'd really like to play an Argonian but I hate the tail and the scales, please give me a toggle so I can look cute!

Sure - whether you have scales or a tail impacts me absolutely zero. I neither know you nor care what toon you play.

So again, why does the colour of my skin matter to anyone but me?

Exactly. This impacts nobody but make the little jealous pricks mad.

@Everstorm I hope you aren't like this irl because, solely based on the posts you make on this forum, you look like you have a vile personality. Hope you find some empathy in your life if I truly feel sorry for you.

Thanks for your concern/personal attack but I'm more the gentle giant type.
The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

Don't use immersion as an excuse when npcs dontveven recognize ur vamparism

manavortex · September 2017

Well.
Since my thread got closed:

Hey there,
my use case is, as always, rather specific. I'm a roleplayer. For PVP, one of my characters is a vampire. For RP, since she is not, I have to frequently be cured and re-bitten.
Since vampires are butt-ugly, could you add a thing (bring it to crown store if you must) that just overlays the vampirism skin with vanilla mortal? Just the way disguises do it, just without actually changing the character's outfit. (No, using a disguise doesn't work for me, there's nothing that fits the character's clothing style.)

To make sure that it's not an unfair advantage in PVP, you could disable it in AVA zones.

I think a polymorph would be most awesome, since wearing the Soul Shriven or Mind Shriven skin also sort of hides vampirism. Both are unsuitable for my character, though.

TL;DR: I want to hide my vampirism while not in PVP without wearing a disguise.

Everstorm · September 2017

Abeille wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

The reason I am against this is that I favor immersion over everything else. Which also means that your actions should have consequences. You let yourself get cursed to gain power you loose your health, simple.
I'm also with the people who feel that vampires higher than stage 1 should be attacked by guards. I would not mind if you look completely normal at stage 1 btw.
In case you're wondering: most of my characters are vampires.

It is problematic when you are playing a game where part of its canonical lore (in this case, vampires being able to look like mortals) affect your immersion negatively. I would expect that people who clearly are vampires being treated the same way as people who are not would be what is immersion breaking.

Allowing vampires to disguise as mortals would not only be completely lore-friendly (read my FAQ for any concerns regarding it), but also it would make it possible to justify being treated as a mortal. "Oh it's okay, I'm disguised, he can't see I'm a vampire so that's why he is talking to me like that, it is totally not because the devs didn't program different lines for vampire PCs".

Therefore, it is the opposite of immersion-breaking. It is uh... Immersion-fixing?

Finally someone with a sensable argument. I concede (and I'm not even sarcastic).

beetleklee · September 2017

It's barely noticeable on my Dunmer, who just looks a bit more pale. Stage 4 definitely looks uglier but I only use that if I really need the sneak passive. I tend to stay stage 2 or 3.

Onu · September 2017

manavortex wrote: »

TL;DR: I want to hide my vampirism while not in PVP without wearing a disguise.

I have no reason to be opposed to this. But if vampirism gets another nice thing such as having all the benefits without looking ugly, damn, why can't Werewolves get their passives while not in werewolf form, too? Two-way street.

And that's not even addressing how lackluster said passive is in comparison, I mean, oh boy stamina regen while human. Stop the presses!

Zos has already been neglecting the hell out of werewolves, vampirism is already seen as the "must-have" for PvE and PvP... it'd be ridiculous to give it yet another thing that would make it even more desirable to players. So if that were to happen, I'd like to see some equivalence and balancing.

Vapirko · September 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Pale skin and red eyes is the price you pay for the power of the damned. If you can't pay the price then return to the realm of mortals.

It's not a matter of price to pay. I don't give a damn about the price, the undeath passive is simply broken and anyone not running it in PvP is gimping themselves. I'd rather not shoot myself in the leg.

I was just having fun with my answer, I will disagree with you even though I used to think the same. The undeath passive is ok. It depends on your play style. As a solo player I've found vampire to a death sentence against other talaneted players primarily mag DKs where you can basically just kiss your ass goodbye. The extra damage you take from dawnbreaker can also ruin you. The recovery drop isn't huge. On my stam sorc SB build I gave it up. It just wasn't worth it. On my woodelf stamblade I've kept it for now but generally avoid facing off against good mag DKs. You're not gimping yourself by not using it. A good player will recognize vamp status and exploit it. I think the undeath passive does help when you're trying to survive a talaentless zerg group and get some los. I used to be completely sold on vamp now I'm not so sure. It does add a ton of recovery on my stamblade woodelf wearing willows, but if I had a vma 2H and the extra wpn damage that provides I would probably drop vamp and simply add another recovery glyph.

Rouven · September 2017

Onu wrote: »

manavortex wrote: »

TL;DR: I want to hide my vampirism while not in PVP without wearing a disguise.

I have no reason to be opposed to this. But if vampirism gets another nice thing such as having all the benefits without looking ugly, damn, why can't Werewolves get their passives while not in werewolf form, too? Two-way street.

And that's not even addressing how lackluster said passive is in comparison, I mean, oh boy stamina regen while human. Stop the presses!

Zos has already been neglecting the hell out of werewolves, vampirism is already seen as the "must-have" for PvE and PvP... it'd be ridiculous to give it yet another thing that would make it even more desirable to players. So if that were to happen, I'd like to see some equivalence and balancing.

pffft. Vampires don't get a nice transformation animation. You (werewolf) do, you can even be your own pack.

Pickles and oranges if you ask me. But an array of werewolf skins to chose from would be nice, eh? Don't want to derail this thread though.

Zimbugga · September 2017

Why is so hard to understand..? You are vampire, so you must have pale skin and red eyes... Just stay stage 1 if you don't like how you look like. At stage 1 you look "normal". Always you can cure yourself.

Sometimes I think, are there anymore people, who knows how vampires really looks like? Why pale skin and red eyes surprise everyone? Vampires aren't like those "vampires" in Twilight, sorry.