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You Guys Could Nerf Soul Assault Anytime Zos!
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tonnopesce wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »
So you're saying they removed block? Okay then
No but a single Soul assault will drain 30 k stamina in seconds
Sounds like a stam recovery problem
You cant recover stam while blocking
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 15, 2017 1:18PM1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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If you dodged that many times in a row as a Meduim armor user you be just about out of stam than Soul assault would deplete the rest.People acting like you can dodge 30 times in a row and turn around and kill you.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
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THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.
Put yourself in a Magplar's shoes. The main ranged DPS attacks you have are javelin (which is easily dodged and expensive), the triple fire ball which is essentially a warm tickle and ... um... ah ... what exactly?
Radiant is great but it isn't even a warm tickle if I fire it at 100%.
So, now, how am I supposed to defend myself against any stamina player? If it's a close on stamina player my only options are to shield and heal until I'm out of resources. If you're ranged all I can come back with is a bunch of things that either won't hurt you (RO at 100%) or can't hit you because dodge-dodge-dodge.
But adding in SA gives me a proper defense against the close on guy and a proper offensive starter against the ranged player. Of course I'm going to then follow up both with a Radiant Oppression because otherwise I'd have no reason to slot it.
Soul Assault and, to a lesser extent, Radiant Oppression balance much of the PVP aspect of this game. Without those it would be a stamina party across Cyrodiil and magic players would pretty much be reduced to bombers and destro ball groups.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭scipionumatia wrote: »@Koolio
I learned how to upload. Didn't go exactly as I remember but here's the link.
https://youtu.be/PfGZ4SBCZKs
So from now on everybody should play snb DKs with 33k hp and never get involved in fights with more than 1 person. Got it.
Funny thing is that the counter you show in this video is block not crit rush into dragon leap. You used that after soul assault ended. And whats even funnier is that if u didnt block soul assault in this video you may have died.Edited by pieratsos on September 15, 2017 1:54PM2 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@THEDKEXPERIENCE you still stuck on before you left when proc sets were strong.Your forgetting your have sweeps which are undodgable and work close range.Again you are overestimating dodge roll and only counting when your attacks miss not the damage tbey deal when they hit.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.
Put yourself in a Magplar's shoes. The main ranged DPS attacks you have are javelin (which is easily dodged and expensive), the triple fire ball which is essentially a warm tickle and ... um... ah ... what exactly?
Radiant is great but it isn't even a warm tickle if I fire it at 100%.
So, now, how am I supposed to defend myself against any stamina player? If it's a close on stamina player my only options are to shield and heal until I'm out of resources. If you're ranged all I can come back with is a bunch of things that either won't hurt you (RO at 100%) or can't hit you because dodge-dodge-dodge.
But adding in SA gives me a proper defense against the close on guy and a proper offensive starter against the ranged player. Of course I'm going to then follow up both with a Radiant Oppression because otherwise I'd have no reason to slot it.
Soul Assault and, to a lesser extent, Radiant Oppression balance much of the PVP aspect of this game. Without those it would be a stamina party across Cyrodiil and magic players would pretty much be reduced to bombers and destro ball groups.
1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
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@THEDKEXPERIENCE you still stuck on before you left when proc sets were strong.Your forgetting your have sweeps which are undodgable and work close range.Again you are overestimating dodge roll and only counting when your attacks miss not the damage tbey deal when they hit.THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.
Put yourself in a Magplar's shoes. The main ranged DPS attacks you have are javelin (which is easily dodged and expensive), the triple fire ball which is essentially a warm tickle and ... um... ah ... what exactly?
Radiant is great but it isn't even a warm tickle if I fire it at 100%.
So, now, how am I supposed to defend myself against any stamina player? If it's a close on stamina player my only options are to shield and heal until I'm out of resources. If you're ranged all I can come back with is a bunch of things that either won't hurt you (RO at 100%) or can't hit you because dodge-dodge-dodge.
But adding in SA gives me a proper defense against the close on guy and a proper offensive starter against the ranged player. Of course I'm going to then follow up both with a Radiant Oppression because otherwise I'd have no reason to slot it.
Soul Assault and, to a lesser extent, Radiant Oppression balance much of the PVP aspect of this game. Without those it would be a stamina party across Cyrodiil and magic players would pretty much be reduced to bombers and destro ball groups.
That's fair. I've never been accused of not trying different things so I'll happily slot something else tonight and see.
Still ... be forewarned. If you are in any way the type of person who enjoys reading nonsense on the internet, go grab a large coffee and read my post history. There is a mountain of posts where I tried something 6 months before it was cool.
I was actually LAUGHED AT on here for promoting the blue beam as a viable counter to this sometime around late winter/early fall.
If I happen to find a replacement I like for it I will guarantee you 2 things.
1 - it will be something WEIRD AF that people will say won't work
and
2 - in 6 months everyone will want whatever I find to be nerfed.
Edit: I do have sweeps slotted already primarily because I've found it to be the best thing to use to clear out the NPCs while soloing resources. It is NOT in any way shape or form an equally good defensive move as SA in close proximity. I've tried it easily hundreds of times.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on September 15, 2017 3:22PM0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »funny when you hear idiots say learn to play nothing wrong with it and they be the ones spamming soul assault your so cool hope zos enjoys this post and nerf the hell out of it or make it interruptable.
This is why we cannot have nice things...
The reason why we cannot have nice things is because of people like you defending every BS in the game that ignores defenses. Soul assault negates the main defenses of medium armor builds. Blocking soul assault on a medium armor that isnt using snb will do roughly 10k dmg and cost 20k stamina while being permasnared. Thats not a counter. Thats prety much a guaranteed death sentence. The only thing u can do is LOS and no, people dont carry trees with them.
And no, we are not gonna "think outside of the box" because some of u like removing skill from the game.
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
"Dodge roll everything" . Yeah cause in this game only SA is undodgeable, nothing else.
Its not just undodgeable. You are permasnared, you cant interrupt it, u cant cc the target, u cant outheal it. The only thing you can do is block it or hope that there is a tree next to you. Blocking it still does a ton of dmg and drains prety much ur whole stamina pool. Its not a counter, its a death sentence.
And no, dodge roll isnt a hard counter to ur survivability. Dodge roll is the defense of medium armor. Just like shields is the defense of light armor. You dont like dodge roll, they dont like shields.
SA is the shieldbreaker of medium. If you want to imagine what SA feels for medium, then imagine playing as a sorc and going up against shieldbreaker in every other fight. Both are broken.
Dodge isnt a perfect mechanic and sure it needs tweaks. Just like shieldstacking. Thats not an excuse of introducing abilities and sets that completely ignore the main defenses. The only thing you achieve like that, is to remove skill from the game and then its just numbers.
Funny how more and more abilities become undodgeable... what's light armor got to worry about? Shield breaker? Not much worry about in my opinion.2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »funny when you hear idiots say learn to play nothing wrong with it and they be the ones spamming soul assault your so cool hope zos enjoys this post and nerf the hell out of it or make it interruptable.
This is why we cannot have nice things...
The reason why we cannot have nice things is because of people like you defending every BS in the game that ignores defenses. Soul assault negates the main defenses of medium armor builds. Blocking soul assault on a medium armor that isnt using snb will do roughly 10k dmg and cost 20k stamina while being permasnared. Thats not a counter. Thats prety much a guaranteed death sentence. The only thing u can do is LOS and no, people dont carry trees with them.
And no, we are not gonna "think outside of the box" because some of u like removing skill from the game.
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
"Dodge roll everything" . Yeah cause in this game only SA is undodgeable, nothing else.
Its not just undodgeable. You are permasnared, you cant interrupt it, u cant cc the target, u cant outheal it. The only thing you can do is block it or hope that there is a tree next to you. Blocking it still does a ton of dmg and drains prety much ur whole stamina pool. Its not a counter, its a death sentence.
And no, dodge roll isnt a hard counter to ur survivability. Dodge roll is the defense of medium armor. Just like shields is the defense of light armor. You dont like dodge roll, they dont like shields.
SA is the shieldbreaker of medium. If you want to imagine what SA feels for medium, then imagine playing as a sorc and going up against shieldbreaker in every other fight. Both are broken.
Dodge isnt a perfect mechanic and sure it needs tweaks. Just like shieldstacking. Thats not an excuse of introducing abilities and sets that completely ignore the main defenses. The only thing you achieve like that, is to remove skill from the game and then its just numbers.
Funny how more and more abilities become undodgeable... what's light armor got to worry about? Shield breaker? Not much worry about in my opinion.
You must have no idea how bad my robes chaff me.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.
Put yourself in a Magplar's shoes. The main ranged DPS attacks you have are javelin (which is easily dodged and expensive), the triple fire ball which is essentially a warm tickle and ... um... ah ... what exactly?
Radiant is great but it isn't even a warm tickle if I fire it at 100%.
So, now, how am I supposed to defend myself against any stamina player? If it's a close on stamina player my only options are to shield and heal until I'm out of resources. If you're ranged all I can come back with is a bunch of things that either won't hurt you (RO at 100%) or can't hit you because dodge-dodge-dodge.
But adding in SA gives me a proper defense against the close on guy and a proper offensive starter against the ranged player. Of course I'm going to then follow up both with a Radiant Oppression because otherwise I'd have no reason to slot it.
Soul Assault and, to a lesser extent, Radiant Oppression balance much of the PVP aspect of this game. Without those it would be a stamina party across Cyrodiil and magic players would pretty much be reduced to bombers and destro ball groups.
Of course is soul assault better than puncturing sweeps, yet alone for it being an ultimate and sweeps a spam. And like I said, SA damage per se isn't the problem, it's the combination of:
-low cost
-high dmg
-cc immunity
-being uninterruptable
-snare
-high tick frequency
If one or two things would be changed nobody could utter things like "soul assault, OP noob cannon, zergling tool". Personally, I'd prefer a change to how often it ticks and therefore how much stamina it drains and maybe a little turn on the snaring screw. So I at least have a chance to block or LoS, to counter it somehow. If the number of ticks decrease while dmg stays the same, each tick would hit harder.
But about magplars offense. Yes, lot of dodgeable abilites. Dodging, cloaking NBs can really be a pain in the arse. I know that. From a MA stam players PoV: just as it should be. Puncturing Sweeps are still undodgeable and I even take 5k+ dmg from some magplars on my HA impregnable build.
I don't know you so I can't say how experienced or good you are. From what I read here it seems like you left when proc sets where out of control. However, to say your only option vs stamina builds in melee range is to shield, heal and wait for your death is a bit of far fetched. On the recieving end I sometimes find spammable sweeps + a DoT putting enough pressure me to bring me into defense.1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Round and round we go. If you are wearing medium armor and can dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge then this is what your kryptonite is. Deal with it.
How much more times can a stamina build in MA dodge than a stamina build in HA?
And can you show me a comparison between dodgeable and undodgeable skills? I mean, there is a lot of stuff dodge wont save you from nowadays.
Put yourself in a Magplar's shoes. The main ranged DPS attacks you have are javelin (which is easily dodged and expensive), the triple fire ball which is essentially a warm tickle and ... um... ah ... what exactly?
Radiant is great but it isn't even a warm tickle if I fire it at 100%.
So, now, how am I supposed to defend myself against any stamina player? If it's a close on stamina player my only options are to shield and heal until I'm out of resources. If you're ranged all I can come back with is a bunch of things that either won't hurt you (RO at 100%) or can't hit you because dodge-dodge-dodge.
But adding in SA gives me a proper defense against the close on guy and a proper offensive starter against the ranged player. Of course I'm going to then follow up both with a Radiant Oppression because otherwise I'd have no reason to slot it.
Soul Assault and, to a lesser extent, Radiant Oppression balance much of the PVP aspect of this game. Without those it would be a stamina party across Cyrodiil and magic players would pretty much be reduced to bombers and destro ball groups.
Of course is soul assault better than puncturing sweeps, yet alone for it being an ultimate and sweeps a spam. And like I said, SA damage per se isn't the problem, it's the combination of:
-low cost
-high dmg
-cc immunity
-being uninterruptable
-snare
-high tick frequency
If one or two things would be changed nobody could utter things like "soul assault, OP noob cannon, zergling tool". Personally, I'd prefer a change to how often it ticks and therefore how much stamina it drains and maybe a little turn on the snaring screw. So I at least have a chance to block or LoS, to counter it somehow. If the number of ticks decrease while dmg stays the same, each tick would hit harder.
But about magplars offense. Yes, lot of dodgeable abilites. Dodging, cloaking NBs can really be a pain in the arse. I know that. From a MA stam players PoV: just as it should be. Puncturing Sweeps are still undodgeable and I even take 5k+ dmg from some magplars on my HA impregnable build.
I don't know you so I can't say how experienced or good you are. From what I read here it seems like you left when proc sets where out of control. However, to say your only option vs stamina builds in melee range is to shield, heal and wait for your death is a bit of far fetched. On the recieving end I sometimes find spammable sweeps + a DoT putting enough pressure me to bring me into defense.
Aside from a 2 month break I've been playing since PC Beta. I moved fresh to console and, during the console beta I got as high as #2 on the leaderboards. I've gotten gold rewards many times but I work a lot so I don't usually show up on the leaderboards. I've been a General in a major PVP guild as well and lead as many as 4 24 man groups at once.
Anyway, yeah, I have a lot of experience. Please note too, my absence was mostly due to outside interests sprinkled with lag annoyance. It was not due to procs being out of control even though I admit that I think the Viper nerf is awesome.
Adding: I run one of the squishiest Magplars you can find because of my chronic DPS addiction. So for me, the only options are to shield/heal or burst you first. If I was to change builds, yes, other options would be more viable as a defense.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on September 15, 2017 4:14PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »mmolegends44 wrote: »funny when you hear idiots say learn to play nothing wrong with it and they be the ones spamming soul assault your so cool hope zos enjoys this post and nerf the hell out of it or make it interruptable.
This is why we cannot have nice things...
The reason why we cannot have nice things is because of people like you defending every BS in the game that ignores defenses. Soul assault negates the main defenses of medium armor builds. Blocking soul assault on a medium armor that isnt using snb will do roughly 10k dmg and cost 20k stamina while being permasnared. Thats not a counter. Thats prety much a guaranteed death sentence. The only thing u can do is LOS and no, people dont carry trees with them.
And no, we are not gonna "think outside of the box" because some of u like removing skill from the game.
If you could dodge roll everything, you'd be invincible.
The only defense against a medium armor build you described is to be offensive, which dodge roll counters.
Dodge roll is a direct hard counter to my survivability, SA is a hard counter to your off the charts offensive capabilities.
"Dodge roll everything" . Yeah cause in this game only SA is undodgeable, nothing else.
Its not just undodgeable. You are permasnared, you cant interrupt it, u cant cc the target, u cant outheal it. The only thing you can do is block it or hope that there is a tree next to you. Blocking it still does a ton of dmg and drains prety much ur whole stamina pool. Its not a counter, its a death sentence.
And no, dodge roll isnt a hard counter to ur survivability. Dodge roll is the defense of medium armor. Just like shields is the defense of light armor. You dont like dodge roll, they dont like shields.
SA is the shieldbreaker of medium. If you want to imagine what SA feels for medium, then imagine playing as a sorc and going up against shieldbreaker in every other fight. Both are broken.
Dodge isnt a perfect mechanic and sure it needs tweaks. Just like shieldstacking. Thats not an excuse of introducing abilities and sets that completely ignore the main defenses. The only thing you achieve like that, is to remove skill from the game and then its just numbers.
Funny how more and more abilities become undodgeable... what's light armor got to worry about? Shield breaker? Not much worry about in my opinion.
Shieldbreaker is equally stupid with soul assault if not even more.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Get Soul Assaulted in noCP in light armour. With only 1 shield. Everyone always only thinks about CP mitigation. Soul Assault is hated exactly for the reason Radiant Destruction was hated. It's the "I want to 1 button pwn players that are already engaged" move.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Get Soul Assaulted in noCP in light armour. With only 1 shield. Everyone always only thinks about CP mitigation. Soul Assault is hated exactly for the reason Radiant Destruction was hated. It's the "I want to 1 button pwn players that are already engaged" move.
(Raises hand)
Guilty as charged your honor.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lack of the ability to block efficiently is your build problem. It is not an issue with soul assault. You choose that trade off. Dmg vs survivability.
Meteor can almost 1 shot someone if they build a for pure
Negate magicka is worthless against stamina characters, and very strong vs magicka. Its not op.1 -
scipionumatia✭✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze
I don't use this ultimate cause I think it's bad.
@KingJ
Ok so let's just remove the skill from the game. Happy?
I'm done arguing thisScipio Numantia Red guard Nightblade PvP- AD
Scipio Asiaticus Khajiit Nightblade (CRAFTER/DPS) PvE- EP
Altmer Nightblade PvP- EP
Fueoculto Breton Templar (DPS) PvE- EP
Rasoculto Orc Dragon Knight PvP- EP
Caethus Argonian Templar (HEAL) PvE- EP
Vale Oso Nord Sorc (DPS) PvE- AD
Sir-Galahad-the-pure Altmer Sorc (DPS) PvE- EP
Scipionumantine Imperial Templar PvP- EP
Un-bearable Imperial Warden PVP- EP
Vale Bear Altmer Warden PvP- EP
Baits-All-Zergs Argonian Dragon knight PVP- DC0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Lack of the ability to block efficiently is your build problem. It is not an issue with soul assault. You choose that trade off. Dmg vs survivability.
Meteor can almost 1 shot someone if they build a for pure
Negate magicka is worthless against stamina characters, and very strong vs magicka. Its not op.
Yes genius, not everyone can block efficiently. But its not about dmg vs survivability. Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game. Thats how the game is designed.
So there is an issue with soul assault unless you suggest every single build in the game to use snb.2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭scipionumatia wrote: »@Chilly-McFreeze
I don't use this ultimate cause I think it's bad.
@KingJ
Ok so let's just remove the skill from the game. Happy?
I'm done arguing this
Ironically its soul assault that removes skill from the game tho. Lol.2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Lack of the ability to block efficiently is your build problem. It is not an issue with soul assault. You choose that trade off. Dmg vs survivability.
Meteor can almost 1 shot someone if they build a for pure
Negate magicka is worthless against stamina characters, and very strong vs magicka. Its not op.
Yes genius, not everyone can block efficiently. But its not about dmg vs survivability. Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game. Thats how the game is designed.
So there is an issue with soul assault unless you suggest every single build in the game to use snb.
I'm not suggesting that, but i am saying that's an outstanding counter that you choose not to use bc you want more damage. Hence tradeoffs... shielding, healers, high resistance, high regen (So you can block the full duration and then, afterwards, get back in the fight) and blocking are all EZ counters. It is your builds issue if you don't run the counter. No one build should excel vs everything..
Look i know it's tougher for stamina 2h and bow builds, especially if in medium. But I've faught plenty of them who do Just fine against it. Play better. Build better.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes genius, not everyone can block efficiently. But its not about dmg vs survivability. Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game. Thats how the game is designed.
So there is an issue with soul assault unless you suggest every single build in the game to use snb.Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the gameBlock just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game
This is what it boils down to.
I don't want to feel forced to play a S&B permablocking heavy armor build when I PvP on a stamina character.
I don't personally find that character archetype fun, many other people don't find it fun & having everyone play that kind of a build in order to survive leads to less build diversity and consequently less diverse and fun PvP for everyone.
In what universe is that a good thing, and how can people defend this status quo?Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Lack of the ability to block efficiently is your build problem. It is not an issue with soul assault. You choose that trade off. Dmg vs survivability.
Meteor can almost 1 shot someone if they build a for pure
Negate magicka is worthless against stamina characters, and very strong vs magicka. Its not op.
Yes genius, not everyone can block efficiently. But its not about dmg vs survivability. Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game. Thats how the game is designed.
So there is an issue with soul assault unless you suggest every single build in the game to use snb.
I'm not suggesting that, but i am saying that's an outstanding counter that you choose not to use bc you want more damage. Hence tradeoffs... shielding, healers, high resistance, high regen (So you can block the full duration and then, afterwards, get back in the fight) and blocking are all EZ counters. It is your builds issue if you don't run the counter. No one build should excel vs everything..
Look i know it's tougher for stamina 2h and bow builds, especially if in medium. But I've faught plenty of them who do Just fine against it. Play better. Build better.
Sorry, but if a medium armor 2H/Bow build survives a Soul Assault from you that's not them playing well, that's you messing up.
There is no way to survive a Soul Assault when you combo it with other damage (i.e. Curse/Pets, Unstable Core/Purifying Light, billion DK DoTs etc etc) - I can run the maths for you if you wish.
There's simply not enough mitigation/healing received even on a maximum stam/weapon dmg medium build with 7 impen to survive the damage.Edited by DDuke on September 15, 2017 8:14PM1 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.Edited by DDuke on September 15, 2017 8:42PM1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.
It's certainly harder for a medium armor user. Especially with out snb. But, it's nearly useless vs shields, healers, tanks. It's strong vs what its supposed to be strong against. There are, and should be hard counters. This one is against medium gank builds. Non of my medium sustain builds have real issue with it. Nor my heavy stam builds. Sure it hurts, but so does any good ultimate.
This argument Is like saying cloak is op bc you don't use the counters...
Shadow image op0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.
It's certainly harder for a medium armor user. Especially with out snb. But, it's nearly useless vs shields, healers, tanks. It's strong vs what its supposed to be strong against. There are, and should be hard counters. This one is against medium gank builds. Non of my medium sustain builds have real issue with it. Nor my heavy stam builds. Sure it hurts, but so does any good ultimate.
This argument Is like saying cloak is op bc you don't use the counters...
Shadow image op
So what's the "hard counter" to a heavy armor magplar/permablock magicka DK then? Or a pet sorc with 30k worth of shields stacked?
You can't have "hard counters" and I-Win buttons against just one character archetype in the game and then ignore all the rest - it doesn't work that way.
Also, apart from S&B builds, "gank builds" (I call them high damage builds, because not all are about ganking) are actually the ones that are most fitted to survive a Soul Assault in medium armor, thanks to their high weapon damage/stamina (bigger heals) - as long as they also wear 7 impen.Edited by DDuke on September 15, 2017 9:19PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Lack of the ability to block efficiently is your build problem. It is not an issue with soul assault. You choose that trade off. Dmg vs survivability.
Meteor can almost 1 shot someone if they build a for pure
Negate magicka is worthless against stamina characters, and very strong vs magicka. Its not op.
Yes genius, not everyone can block efficiently. But its not about dmg vs survivability. Block just isnt the intended main defence mechanic for every single build in the game. Thats how the game is designed.
So there is an issue with soul assault unless you suggest every single build in the game to use snb.
I'm not suggesting that, but i am saying that's an outstanding counter that you choose not to use bc you want more damage. Hence tradeoffs... shielding, healers, high resistance, high regen (So you can block the full duration and then, afterwards, get back in the fight) and blocking are all EZ counters. It is your builds issue if you don't run the counter. No one build should excel vs everything..
Look i know it's tougher for stamina 2h and bow builds, especially if in medium. But I've faught plenty of them who do Just fine against it. Play better. Build better.
No, you are still missing it. You dont use it not because you choose dmg. You dont use it because thats how the game is designed. Its not a matter of dmg vs survivability. Not all builds are designed to use block as an effective defense mechanic and limiting the counters of so powerful abilities and mechanics to "just block it" is beyond idiotic.
And i like how you jump to conclusions about me having build problems. I know for some of you seems unreasonable but some of us still give a sh*t about the balance of this game and we are not all biased. I am using soul assault and its beyond stupid against medium armor. Just because they survive it some times either because you didnt use it right or they have other means of mitigation, it doesnt mean there is no issue with it. You dont see their stamina to realise what this ult is actually doing.Edited by pieratsos on September 15, 2017 9:53PM3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.
It's certainly harder for a medium armor user. Especially with out snb. But, it's nearly useless vs shields, healers, tanks. It's strong vs what its supposed to be strong against. There are, and should be hard counters. This one is against medium gank builds. Non of my medium sustain builds have real issue with it. Nor my heavy stam builds. Sure it hurts, but so does any good ultimate.
This argument Is like saying cloak is op bc you don't use the counters...
Shadow image op
Its only useless against permablocking tanks with insane healing but then again prety much everything is useless against them. Against shield users isnt useless if you use it right. Not broken ofc like it is against medium but most definitely not useless.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.
It's certainly harder for a medium armor user. Especially with out snb. But, it's nearly useless vs shields, healers, tanks. It's strong vs what its supposed to be strong against. There are, and should be hard counters. This one is against medium gank builds. Non of my medium sustain builds have real issue with it. Nor my heavy stam builds. Sure it hurts, but so does any good ultimate.
This argument Is like saying cloak is op bc you don't use the counters...
Shadow image op
So what's the "hard counter" to a heavy armor magplar/permablock magicka DK then? Or a pet sorc with 30k worth of shields stacked?
You can't have "hard counters" and I-Win buttons against just one character archetype in the game and then ignore all the rest - it doesn't work that way.
Also, apart from S&B builds, "gank builds" (I call them high damage builds, because not all are about ganking) are actually the ones that are most fitted to survive a Soul Assault in medium armor, thanks to their high weapon damage/stamina (bigger heals) - as long as they also wear 7 impen.
Im a strong advocate for adding a stamina drain to those who hold block for 4 or more seconds or removing the ability to cast offensive spells other than snb skills. As it stands, dots and ground aoes are ok vs those builds.
No ideas on how to fix skills stacking other than using siphoner/ poisons. Shield stacking is not 30k hp unless they are at low health using 3 shields which only sorcs can utilize. It also costs over 9k magicka and 3 seconds to cast all that which by then you should have at least 1.5 or 2 of those shields down. Pressure and timed burst is strongest vs shields.
I get a feeling you're not actually looking for advice though and are Just complaining so ill stop.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Just remeber...if you change the frequency to 1 sec over .5 secs....you make that first strike hit for double the damage...soo...take that and think about it.
The thing thats so awesome about soul assault is that when you combine it with mucho dots. For my build, i hit you with entropy, purifying light, vamps bane, shock reach (ensures that alot of the damage hits you while your down not blocking) that ends up being almost unbearable for anyone not a tank, nightblade, or without immunity before shock reach...but its not OP, it is a single target ulti. Compare that to nightblade single target ulti...its nothing, even after all my dots ans stun, it still doesnt guarantee a kill. Now that nightblade skill i would take over soul assault in a HEARTbeat. Its instant therefore almost impossible to presume. Applies major defile, and correct me if im wrong but hard stuns too. Also extremely hard hitting.
Soul assault only hits hard when used with other dots and when you built around soul assault damage. Otherwise its absolutely underpowered...being a channel. I mean sure it drain a lot of stamina.
I also cant tell you how many good players just jump into me and wreck face while im channeling it, causing me to die or have to cancel it so i dont die. Theres another way to look at it.
Oh and it absolutely is nicely utilized in zergs...
It does guarantee a kill though on any non-S&B medium armor user if you combo it properly.
Might feel awesome for you, but trust me it doesn't feel awesome for the medium armor user.
It's pretty much the same as sneak attacks back in the day instagibbing people without anything you can do about it, or proc sets deleting people without any real counterplay.
I guess it's one of those things that you have to experience before you realize how atrocious the balance in the game is at the moment.
Also, the NB ultimate you're referencing is called Incapacitate and it can be dodged, blocked, or absorbed entirely with one damage shield. It's still strong, but mostly just when combo'd and combined with a Selene proc - it's never a guaranteed kill unless you hit someone at low health.
Soul Assault you can cast on a max health medium armor user and it'll deal an average 5k dmg/second through block & Vigor (for around 15k total), which means you're dead as 20k health medium armor player once the Purifying Light/Unstable Core proc. Toss in a couple Skoria procs to make it even faster.
It's certainly harder for a medium armor user. Especially with out snb. But, it's nearly useless vs shields, healers, tanks. It's strong vs what its supposed to be strong against. There are, and should be hard counters. This one is against medium gank builds. Non of my medium sustain builds have real issue with it. Nor my heavy stam builds. Sure it hurts, but so does any good ultimate.
This argument Is like saying cloak is op bc you don't use the counters...
Shadow image op
So what's the "hard counter" to a heavy armor magplar/permablock magicka DK then? Or a pet sorc with 30k worth of shields stacked?
You can't have "hard counters" and I-Win buttons against just one character archetype in the game and then ignore all the rest - it doesn't work that way.
Also, apart from S&B builds, "gank builds" (I call them high damage builds, because not all are about ganking) are actually the ones that are most fitted to survive a Soul Assault in medium armor, thanks to their high weapon damage/stamina (bigger heals) - as long as they also wear 7 impen.
Im a strong advocate for adding a stamina drain to those who hold block for 4 or more seconds or removing the ability to cast offensive spells other than snb skills. As it stands, dots and ground aoes are ok vs those builds.
No ideas on how to fix skills stacking other than using siphoner/ poisons. Shield stacking is not 30k hp unless they are at low health using 3 shields which only sorcs can utilize. It also costs over 9k magicka and 3 seconds to cast all that which by then you should have at least 1.5 or 2 of those shields down. Pressure and timed burst is strongest vs shields.
I get a feeling you're not actually looking for advice though and are Just complaining so ill stop.
You dont realise how strong soul assault is against medium unless you try it. I didnt realise too at the beginning when i was on a sorc. But when i actually played in medium armor soul assault was atrocious.Edited by pieratsos on September 15, 2017 10:08PM0
