Business of addiction: How the games industry is learning from casinos

Synfaer · September 2017

I have just read an interesting article and thought I'd share...
Looks like ZOS is just following the trends in the gaming industry when it comes to separating us from our hard earned dollars.

abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/video-game-addiction-how-the-industry-is-learning-from-casinos/8941114

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2017

As long as it's effective and legal, don't expect it to go away. It's a shame, but I'd be lying if I said I've never bought Crown Crates, so I'm part of the problem lol

Betheny · September 2017

Welcome to being farmed and knowing it.

Morgul667 · September 2017

Yeah

Chronicburn · September 2017

Wow ... but yeah

Synfaer · September 2017

Makes me want to splurge on some Indie developers...

scipionumatia · September 2017

That was an interesting read thanks for posting OP

Merkabeh · September 2017

This hasbeen going on for years; glad you have been exposed to it though.

I remember reading articles on it when mobile gaming took off, a few years back. And I know it has existed in concept in some game design since well before that.

In the end though, I look at it, similar to how I view gambling; if you understand what it is, and find it entertaining, and can control your spending, no harm no foul. Its when it stops being fun, but you do it anyway, or when you lose control of spending, that it becomes a problem. And each person will have their own limits to what they can handle; and it is up to each person to know those limits and make their decisions to keep these activities healthy for them.

Runefang · September 2017

"Morally dubious" lol

LordSkyKnight · September 2017

Think of it this way. That 4000 crown spider that was for sale recently had graphic assets that were already in game. The data for it was already in the game folder on your hard drive. You could see it in the game but people charged their money via a plastic card to crowns to be able to ride it themselves. Seems pretty asinine doesn't it?

Think about the homes they sell and how much they charge. Think about the white knights who defend the behavior of buying or selling it. They have been mentally conditioned to accept the behavior.

When you sit back and think on all of it, the way games used to be back in the 90s to what they have become, it all starts to seem sad and rather silly.

SFDB · September 2017

It's a myth. My wife plays games eighteen hours a day seven days a week and she never got addicted.

starkerealm · September 2017

SFDB wrote: »

It's a myth. My wife plays games eighteen hours a day seven days a week and she never got addicted.

ArcVelarian · September 2017

I buy things from the crown store, but not crown crates. The legality of these gambling crate thingies in video games is questionable.

Cpt_Teemo · September 2017

ArcVelarian wrote: »

I buy things from the crown store, but not crown crates. The legality of these gambling crate thingies in video games is questionable.

I heard Arch Age was nearly shut down cause of the rng gambling but wasn't sure if that was true or not cause its still there

FloppyTouch · September 2017

Beardimus · September 2017

Seriously don't get the issue people have with a company making money. I'm no white knight, I know a rip off when I see one (Apple) and this to me isn't.

Most commerce deals in addiction. Sugar, the latest phone. The newest model of car, its all marketing with systems to 'get' people in, loans, credit cards, credit in general. Online shopping, 'Discount' sales in supermarkets! Even Pokémon playing cards in random packs...

Comparing a huge MMORPG with ongoing development to a 80's or 90's game is hilarious. They had zero updates zero new content and the same concerns about addiction where present!! In relative terms they cost the same as today and yet todays game has huge longevity and multiple updates for what, £30. Maybe another £30 if you got Morrowind. An optional £8.99 if you want to craft properly and hoard, which gives you crowns if you do want cosmetic purchases.

Being outraged because some spend more on their hobby than others seems silly to me. People spend more on alcohol a month and think its ok.

How is wasting time on farming RNG dungeons any more or less acceptable than wasting money on RNG crates. Some people have one resources others the other

For me, and my very small investment for 2 years of regular play now think this is the best value game I've ever bought, and the way way way cheapest hobby. The phone I type this on is more 'addictive' and the internet I use to connect on is more expensive.

Genuinely not trolling or after a fight but its a repeated fist waving on this forum I don't get.

Feanor · September 2017

Actually this is much much older and goes back to when mankind first learned to trade. It's the fine art of making someone urge for something he doesn't actually need. Behavioral psychology has just fine tuned this, but I think it's an art practiced for more than some thousand years...

Zbigb4life · September 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Seriously don't get the issue people have with a company making money. I'm no white knight, I know a rip off when I see one (Apple) and this to me isn't.

Most commerce deals in addiction. Sugar, the latest phone. The newest model of car, its all marketing with systems to 'get' people in, loans, credit cards, credit in general. Online shopping, 'Discount' sales in supermarkets! Even Pokémon playing cards in random packs...

Comparing a huge MMORPG with ongoing development to a 80's or 90's game is hilarious. They had zero updates zero new content and the same concerns about addiction where present!! In relative terms they cost the same as today and yet todays game has huge longevity and multiple updates for what, £30. Maybe another £30 if you got Morrowind. An optional £8.99 if you want to craft properly and hoard, which gives you crowns if you do want cosmetic purchases.

Being outraged because some spend more on their hobby than others seems silly to me. People spend more on alcohol a month and think its ok.

How is wasting time on farming RNG dungeons any more or less acceptable than wasting money on RNG crates. Some people have one resources others the other

For me, and my very small investment for 2 years of regular play now think this is the best value game I've ever bought, and the way way way cheapest hobby. The phone I type this on is more 'addictive' and the internet I use to connect on is more expensive.

Genuinely not trolling or after a fight but its a repeated fist waving on this forum I don't get.

Oh so I see: since YOU DON'T get it it means it's ok??? Strange thinking but then again so is this game...

Sevn · September 2017

From what I have seen Zos is in a lose/lose situation in regards to crown crates ( I'm assuming this thread is indeed about them ). If they sell the items outright, for what they deem the items to be worth, there is outrage at the price (4000 crowns for a reskin, how dare they!).

If they put them in crates they are feeding on the weakminded, playing on people's addiction, etc. Gotta say it seems most detractors just want said items but at a fraction of what Zos is charging, and I sincerely hope those who imply it's about gambling addiction spend time at their local addiction centers helping those truly in need, they are always looking for volunteers and having spent the last 20 years volunteering, it irks me if folks are just hee hawing about gambling addiction because they can't get a shiny new pixel thingy for peanuts.

geonsocal · September 2017

Synfaer wrote: »

I have just read an interesting article and thought I'd share...
Looks like ZOS is just following the trends in the gaming industry when it comes to separating us from our hard earned dollars.

abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/video-game-addiction-how-the-industry-is-learning-from-casinos/8941114

and here I thought zos was my friend

makes sense...would have been nice though to see some stats in the article...

I have to imagine there must be some numbers reflecting gaming addiction...

interesting topic...

the pitfalls of specialization...okay

Asardes · September 2017

I didn't buy any crown crates but spent a lot of time re-running the same content for the right drops, like most players. I did decide to sub recently because inventory management was eating too much of my time I would now spend playing. Over time I've bought only a handful of cosmetic items, most of them really cheap, and with crowns I've got while subbing. But I imagine people who subbed for years have a lot of crowns in their accounts and bought most of the fluff they wanted using them. I guess most of the crown crate "gamblers" belong to this category - people who already paid for crowns trough subbing and want to spend them on something.

Pele · September 2017

I thought this was common knowledge.

Huyen · September 2017

Nothing new. Every game is these days. Hell, everyone is trying to, so they can fill their own pockets (yes, even in-game!).

Turelus · September 2017

@Beardimus it's not about them making money, it's about the way they do it.

I am fine paying someone for a service or items I want, but when they start manipulating the way I get those to get more money from me and I get less out of it then it starts to get insulting.

An example for ESO.

I don't agree with crates but there was the build in mechanic via the gems that there was a limit on the money needed to be spent to get the rarest items. This meant if you REALLY wanted an apex item you could get it with enough investment.

However that wasn't good enough for ZOS, so they went and added items which can't be purchased with gems, meaning anyone who wants that item has no limit on the money they must now spend to obtain it.

It's insulting and rude to the customers who love and support the game.

Krayzie · September 2017

Exactly why I didn't buy Morrowind and unsubbed after 2 months.

People love to throw their money at a corrupt game company willing to allow their game to remain unstable for years and have the nerve to actually charge 4k crowns for the slightest graphical change I've ever seen.

I feel like they were like, "what's the very least we could possible do and what's the most we could possibly charge. Oh! Remember that EXPENSIVE mount we released with Morrowind? Lets just add barely anything of a color change and sell that".

People should be ashamed of themselves, this is exactly why the game has remained in the state it's been in all these years with things like streak being broken forever now.

They have no reason to promptly fix anything and have all the reason to push more and more cosmetic additions.

Why concern your company with the real issues that directly affect game performance when people are willing to give $40 for a barely changed mount.

It's sickening and there should be a huge uproar against Zenimax all over forums. Instead people would rather make useless assign polls of what they'd like to see in the game that will never come to fruition because Zenimax absolutely doesn't care .

They absolutely don't care and shouldn't care because they're too busy counting all the money they make on the daily basis.

Disgusting practices by an evil company, but hey, I got that new $40 mount I can lag around in Cyrodiil on.

Runefang · September 2017

If humans were content with what they need instead of what they want we'd still be hunting animals with sticks and living in caves.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Turelus wrote: »

@Beardimus it's not about them making money, it's about the way they do it.

I am fine paying someone for a service or items I want, but when they start manipulating the way I get those to get more money from me and I get less out of it then it starts to get insulting.

An example for ESO.

I don't agree with crates but there was the build in mechanic via the gems that there was a limit on the money needed to be spent to get the rarest items. This meant if you REALLY wanted an apex item you could get it with enough investment.

However that wasn't good enough for ZOS, so they went and added items which can't be purchased with gems, meaning anyone who wants that item has no limit on the money they must now spend to obtain it.

It's insulting and rude to the customers who love and support the game.

And further proof to those who dont the game isn't worth supporting, combined with those allready unhappy with the game balance and systems in place.

Oh it takes about five months for one persistant issue to get fixed but the crown store is regulated every month like clockwork. It's a disgrace.

Krayzie · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@Beardimus it's not about them making money, it's about the way they do it.

I am fine paying someone for a service or items I want, but when they start manipulating the way I get those to get more money from me and I get less out of it then it starts to get insulting.

An example for ESO.

I don't agree with crates but there was the build in mechanic via the gems that there was a limit on the money needed to be spent to get the rarest items. This meant if you REALLY wanted an apex item you could get it with enough investment.

However that wasn't good enough for ZOS, so they went and added items which can't be purchased with gems, meaning anyone who wants that item has no limit on the money they must now spend to obtain it.

It's insulting and rude to the customers who love and support the game.

And further proof to those who dont the game isn't worth supporting, combined with those allready unhappy with the game balance and systems in place.

Oh it takes about five months for one persistant issue to get fixed but the crown store is regulated every month like clockwork. It's a disgrace.

5 months for a persistent issue to be fixed whilst breaking 100 other things along the way.

Feanor · September 2017

Runefang wrote: »

If humans were content with what they need instead of what they want we'd still be hunting animals with sticks and living in caves.

The question is though: Wouldn't we be happier?

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Krayzie wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@Beardimus it's not about them making money, it's about the way they do it.

I am fine paying someone for a service or items I want, but when they start manipulating the way I get those to get more money from me and I get less out of it then it starts to get insulting.

An example for ESO.

I don't agree with crates but there was the build in mechanic via the gems that there was a limit on the money needed to be spent to get the rarest items. This meant if you REALLY wanted an apex item you could get it with enough investment.

However that wasn't good enough for ZOS, so they went and added items which can't be purchased with gems, meaning anyone who wants that item has no limit on the money they must now spend to obtain it.

It's insulting and rude to the customers who love and support the game.

And further proof to those who dont the game isn't worth supporting, combined with those allready unhappy with the game balance and systems in place.

Oh it takes about five months for one persistant issue to get fixed but the crown store is regulated every month like clockwork. It's a disgrace.

5 months for a persistent issue to be fixed whilst breaking 100 other things along the way.

And lets not forget people puting up PTS feedback and having it either be ignored or changed at the last minute.

Beardimus · September 2017

I understand your point @Turelus however its a matter of perception. And I personally don't see the problem in crates any more than I see an issue with every day marketing which is all intended to separate people from their cash with clever tactics.

They are charging a huge premium for items people don't need they just want. If people are willing to pay that much or take the risk thats up to them. And its healthy for the rest if us that the game is profitable as it means longevity

The anti crate argument would stack up if no one bought them i.e. Amazing mounts going to waste but people are. Crate mounts are the most common in the game. Every season sells like hot cakes so as a income generator its working hugely well and enough people are happy with it (rightly or wrongly)

As everything we all agree to differ, I personally have control over impulse and my finances so I'm ok with it all in this game. Others don't and I feel for them but no more about crates than I do then getting sucked into buying the latest Phone or car or exercise thing from a shopping channel! It's all just marketing.