Cloak in 3.1

zyk · September 2017

I felt cloak was very much improved in 3.0, but it seems to have taken a step back in 3.1. I can't put my finger on anything in particular, but it doesn't feel anywhere close to as reliable in medium-heavy combat situations.

I can't put my finger on exactly what's different, though somewhat frequently, it seems to break for no apparent reason.

Has anyone else had similar experiences in 3.1?

Gilvoth · September 2017

stealth is worse now then before.

it is very hard and SLOW to:

1) get into stealth
2) stay in stealth
3) go back into stealth after casting invisibility

i am also pulled out of stealth much sooner then previously.
i lost a few feet of detection protection,
now, when i am in stealth and see some one not far away he pulls me out of stealth even tho he is far away.

in addition to that, i see people fighting to get into stealth that are enemies that are WAY far from me ands i know they are nightblades cause i see them casting invisibility [the red smoke] all around them, yet they are easy to see.

also: when i cast invisibility, immediately after the 2.8 seconds it makes me stand up out of stealth instead of leaving me in sneak!

i hate it.

NightbladeMechanics · September 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stealth is worse now then before.

it is very hard and SLOW to:

1) get into stealth
2) stay in stealth
3) go back into stealth after casting invisibility

i am also pulled out of stealth much sooner then previously.
i lost a few feet of detection protection,
now, when i am in stealth and see some one not far away he pulls me out of stealth even tho he is far away.

in addition to that, i see people fighting to get into stealth that are enemies that are WAY far from me ands i know they are nightblades cause i see them casting invisibility [the red smoke] all around them, yet they are easy to see.

also: when i cast invisibility, immediately after the 2.8 seconds it makes me stand up out of stealth instead of leaving me in sneak!

i hate it.

I'm not encountering any of these issues with cloak or crouch. The main issue I encounter with cloak is dizzying swing, and crouch stealth is working better than ever now. You can crouch just a few seconds after you stop taking or dealing damage ever since they decreased the time it takes to leave combat. Just two nights ago, I had some idiot sniping me from full range and immediately going back into crouch over and over while I was fighting a DK south of Nikel. Crouch is fine, if not too strong, and cloak is working well now compared to past patches too.

zyk · September 2017

For me, it's not that I've yet noticed anything specific, but overall cloak has not been as close to effective as it was for me in 3.0. The 3.0 cloak felt very similar to the 2.0-2.2 cloak which was very reliable in heavy combat.

In 3.1, I'm experiencing failed cloaks for no apparent reason -- but the next cast may work. I've dropped cloak for no reason and been able to reapply it immediately.

I think this is something that might vary based on how and where one might play. I play objectives and the lanes mostly. I dive into the action and fight against a lot of good groups.

In hindsight, I don't think stealth has been quite as reliable for me at all times either.

I will try to capture and analyze some clips. I wish I had better info before posting, but I wanted to put this out there to see if others had experienced the same.

NightbladeMechanics · September 2017

zyk wrote: »

For me, it's not that I've yet noticed anything specific, but overall cloak has not been as close to effective as it was for me in 3.0. The 3.0 cloak felt very similar to the 2.0-2.2 cloak which was very reliable in heavy combat.

In 3.1, I'm experiencing failed cloaks for no apparent reason -- but the next cast may work. I've dropped cloak for no reason and been able to reapply it immediately.

I think this is something that might vary based on how and where one might play. I play objectives and the lanes mostly. I dive into the action and fight against a lot of good groups.

In hindsight, I don't think stealth has been quite as reliable for me at all times either.

I will try to capture and analyze some clips. I wish I had better info before posting, but I wanted to put this out there to see if others had experienced the same.

I don't play my nightblades in large scale engagements or lag, so I can't respond to your exact inquiry -- only to cloak working or not working versus specific spells and dots and such.

It's still broken by PvE mob dots, such as Xivkyn's Agony and Tether in IC, for example, and I have pretty much stopped using cloak as a method to dodge Dizzying Swing. It's too unreliable with that one.

Could your cloak be getting broken by random aoes with invis animations (gotta love those) or detect pots which you don't know are being used?

usmcjdking · September 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stealth is worse now then before.

it is very hard and SLOW to:

1) get into stealth
2) stay in stealth
3) go back into stealth after casting invisibility

i am also pulled out of stealth much sooner then previously.
i lost a few feet of detection protection,
now, when i am in stealth and see some one not far away he pulls me out of stealth even tho he is far away.

in addition to that, i see people fighting to get into stealth that are enemies that are WAY far from me ands i know they are nightblades cause i see them casting invisibility [the red smoke] all around them, yet they are easy to see.

also: when i cast invisibility, immediately after the 2.8 seconds it makes me stand up out of stealth instead of leaving me in sneak!

i hate it.

I'm not encountering any of these issues with cloak or crouch. The main issue I encounter with cloak is dizzying swing, and crouch stealth is working better than ever now. You can crouch just a few seconds after you stop taking or dealing damage ever since they decreased the time it takes to leave combat. Just two nights ago, I had some idiot sniping me from full range and immediately going back into crouch over and over while I was fighting a DK south of Nikel. Crouch is fine, if not too strong, and cloak is working well now compared to past patches too.

Cloak has a 'disjoint' window where you can essentially disjoint skills that would otherwise connect even if they have vision of you. Gap Closers + Dizzy have lock-on + cast times which makes it very difficult to disjoint them meaning you have to cloak within a very tight window in the impact frames else the skill will connect.

NightbladeMechanics · September 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stealth is worse now then before.

it is very hard and SLOW to:

1) get into stealth
2) stay in stealth
3) go back into stealth after casting invisibility

i am also pulled out of stealth much sooner then previously.
i lost a few feet of detection protection,
now, when i am in stealth and see some one not far away he pulls me out of stealth even tho he is far away.

in addition to that, i see people fighting to get into stealth that are enemies that are WAY far from me ands i know they are nightblades cause i see them casting invisibility [the red smoke] all around them, yet they are easy to see.

also: when i cast invisibility, immediately after the 2.8 seconds it makes me stand up out of stealth instead of leaving me in sneak!

i hate it.

I'm not encountering any of these issues with cloak or crouch. The main issue I encounter with cloak is dizzying swing, and crouch stealth is working better than ever now. You can crouch just a few seconds after you stop taking or dealing damage ever since they decreased the time it takes to leave combat. Just two nights ago, I had some idiot sniping me from full range and immediately going back into crouch over and over while I was fighting a DK south of Nikel. Crouch is fine, if not too strong, and cloak is working well now compared to past patches too.

Cloak has a 'disjoint' window where you can essentially disjoint skills that would otherwise connect even if they have vision of you. Gap Closers + Dizzy have lock-on + cast times which makes it very difficult to disjoint them meaning you have to cloak within a very tight window in the impact frames else the skill will connect.

Well yes, but Dizzy's lock-on window appears to be different since it's a melee channeled skill instead of a ranged gap closer or projectile with a travel time. I have more time to react to an incoming gap closer and cloak it, and cloaking melee heavy attacks and even spammables when not animation cancelled (to allow an animation during which to react) works fine too. Dizzy sure seems to resist the disjoint, but then again, I haven't tested when the timing exactly lines up. Also lag is a thing.

Very annoying and unreliable to try to cloak Dizzies compared to other skills.

Could you elaborate on the timing, or I might grab you to test this in game sometime. I'd love to know exactly how that window lines up.