The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Addons Detecting Attacks from Stealth?
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well... ZOS did remove the bonus damage from stealth against other players, perhaps this was their official response to the addon.
CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.
Developer apathy does not change the fact that it is , in a way, cheating. There are several online games out there where devs just ignore blatant cheating. So I guess god mode mods, and wall hacks are ok though, because devs dont see a problem? Who knew? ( obviously those arent in this game, but this is around the same line )
That's exactly what I am saying. If devs could in this imaginary game do something about wall hacks etc, but don't, they consider it ok.
In ESO, they could change the API, they have done it before. They choose not to. Only reasonable conclusion is that they don't consider it cheating.
Oh and I don't use it.
Its not an imaginary game. Have you ever played a CoD game on PC after the newest one is released? It becomes a hack fest, and it isnt because devs see it is ok, its because they cant be bothered to fix it. I have no problem with add ons in general, but ones that negate a playstyle are simply unacceptable in my book. And I will repost this again since people seem to ignore it.
"As we get closer to launch, our beta events have continued to grow in player-size, and that growth has resulted in even more and more of you taking the time to experiment with our UI modding tools. It’s exciting to see the amazing add-ons you have come up with and for us, as developers, it’s also a very important part of the beta process. Seeing what the community wants to add or change is helpful as we continue to tweak and balance the game – what are people looking for? what works? what doesn’t? Finding the right answers to these questions often means leaving the API very open during this beta phase. It helps us see where limits may or may not be and helps us determine what makes the best possible ESO experience for everyone.
We welcome creativity and have built ESO on player-choice, but as a game played with thousands of others, we also must be mindful of any mods that give clear mechanical advantages in competitive situations. Maintaining a level playing field will always be our first priority. Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others. We do not want those who aren’t interested in using an add-on to feel compelled to do so because they cannot remain competitive without them. As we continue beta testing, we’ll continue to evaluate add-ons and the implications they have on other players, but you can expect changes to the API before launch and will share that information as it becomes available. Thank you to all of you that have created add-ons during this time – we appreciate your help in making ESO the best it can be."
so clearly from the get go they did not want these kind of add ons in the game, but it is only their apathy and laziness that allow it to stay, they just dont want to spend any resources to fix it or get rid of similar ones. And honestly, people defending these type of add ons, it just shows what kind of person they are. I mean heaven forbid you have to actually use your head in combat.1 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Makes me hungry too! Wanna go halfsies on a pizza?bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »i Don't even play the PC version and it still makes me hungry
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!
The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!
Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?
So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!
Imagine how disheartening it is to go into pvp after leveling your character to cp 160 and finding out your entire class is useless in pvp because of an add on. I think they would be happier learning a few mechanics to avoid that . Such as mage light, caltrops, potions, certain armor sets, etc, instead of having to completely remake your class because of an add on.
It doesn't make any classes useless. It may make some builds less effective, but guess what? I use one of those 'less effective' builds and still have a lot of success with it. There's stuff you can do make it harder for them to dodge in time - even with the addon.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!
The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!
Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?
So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!
Imagine how disheartening it is to go into pvp after leveling your character to cp 160 and finding out your entire class is useless in pvp because of an add on. I think they would be happier learning a few mechanics to avoid that . Such as mage light, caltrops, potions, certain armor sets, etc, instead of having to completely remake your class because of an add on.
It doesn't make any classes useless. It may make some builds less effective, but guess what? I use one of those 'less effective' builds and still have a lot of success with it. There's stuff you can do make it harder for them to dodge in time - even with the addon.
Im open for suggestions, because my archer scout class is downright useless atm. Stamden with bow and sNb w/ medium armor.0 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was summoned in vain:)
Nope, the addon doesn't show heavies from stealth.
Nope, you can't troll people with heavies from stealth anymore.
Nope, the addon doesn't track anybody just because they are nearby anymore.
Nope, the addon doesn't distinguish between stealthed and non-stealthed attack anymore.
Nope, nightblades' free sniping from stealth is not fair play.
Nope, nightblades don't rely on stealth opener to be effective in pvp.
Yes, addons can only show the information ZOS API provides to them.
Nope, Miat can't be banned for whatever addon he decides to make.
Much love everybody!
Okay I'll address this...
1 - But it does from invisibility spells.
2 - How is it trolling to attack with a heavy attack from stealth?
3 - Wasn't what was being discussed. If that was the case it'd be that much worse though.
4 - Clarification on this point please?
5 - So a class using the mechanic that most strongly plays with that class is not fair play? I admit, it is difficult for people to fight a Nightblade who knows how to use stealth and invisibility, but skilled players can do it. It is a rare day that I fall to a magblade or stamblade using stealth and invisibility as a crutch.
6 - A nightblade can be built to play however somebody wants to build it. On my magblade, I do not require stealth nor invisibility to play it, have won fights without it, but it is ordinarily a big part of my play. Dancing in and out of invisibility knowing when it is worth the expenditure of magicka and when it is not is a strategic decision.
7 - Failure of ZOS then.
8 - I don't know why people are calling for Miat to be banned personally. I'm only showing how the addon is a crutch.
Much love and take care, @Dorrino"Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!
The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!
Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?
So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!
Imagine how disheartening it is to go into pvp after leveling your character to cp 160 and finding out your entire class is useless in pvp because of an add on. I think they would be happier learning a few mechanics to avoid that . Such as mage light, caltrops, potions, certain armor sets, etc, instead of having to completely remake your class because of an add on.
It doesn't make any classes useless. It may make some builds less effective, but guess what? I use one of those 'less effective' builds and still have a lot of success with it. There's stuff you can do make it harder for them to dodge in time - even with the addon.
Im open for suggestions, because my archer scout class is downright useless atm. Stamden with bow and sNb w/ medium armor.
Its only really gonna alert on snipe, and bow heavy attacks, I think.. You have an undodgeable, ranged, class spammable.. As a start point, perhaps use snipe or heavy attacks to make them dodge, follow up with bird spam that will hit them.. (They can't block at the same time as dodging)
Honestly though, if you're only cp160, then compared to other PVPers, it sounds like you have a lot less experience than those you are fighting against.. Its probably the experience difference that's the biggest factor making you lose.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!
The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!
Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?
So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!
Imagine how disheartening it is to go into pvp after leveling your character to cp 160 and finding out your entire class is useless in pvp because of an add on. I think they would be happier learning a few mechanics to avoid that . Such as mage light, caltrops, potions, certain armor sets, etc, instead of having to completely remake your class because of an add on.
It doesn't make any classes useless. It may make some builds less effective, but guess what? I use one of those 'less effective' builds and still have a lot of success with it. There's stuff you can do make it harder for them to dodge in time - even with the addon.
Im open for suggestions, because my archer scout class is downright useless atm. Stamden with bow and sNb w/ medium armor.
Its only really gonna alert on snipe, and bow heavy attacks, I think.. You have an undodgeable, ranged, class spammable.. As a start point, perhaps use snipe or heavy attacks to make them dodge, follow up with bird spam that will hit them.. (They can't block at the same time as dodging)
Honestly though, if you're only cp160, then compared to other PVPers, it sounds like you have a lot less experience than those you are fighting against.. Its probably the experience difference that's the biggest factor making you lose.
I animation cancel pretty well from what I have been told, I am cp 183, because I hated , HATED all the base classes and was waiting to come back to the game until warden was released. I tinkered with so many builds before hand with the vanilla classes, but I just couldnt do it. Now that it is here, I pretty religiously use snipe, light attack, bird, or snipe, light, bird, PI. But if they roll right, the whole thing can be dodged, which is another problem in itself with dodge, how it can literally dodge 9999999999999 attacks if theyall go off in that time span, but thats neither here nor there atm. I have no problem is someone ACTUALLY rolls the burst because of skill / timing, but because they are being told an attack is incoming is beyond cheap. Honestly, said ZoS these kinds of things were not ok in the beginning, I just find it ridiculous how they backtracked.Edited by Jade1986 on September 2, 2017 2:46PM0 -
Runschei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not only are there addons that detects attacks from stealth, but some addons even let you see stealthed players aswell. This I noticed today.
I was outside Vlastarus in Cyrodiil, sitting in stealth so no one would find me while I ate my ice cream. And I sat there for a good 5 minutes not touching my keyboard. Out of nowhere I see a mounted enemy dragonknight far away from me just running towards Roebeck. He made a quick turn towards my direction in full speed. I didn't want any combat because I was eating my ice cream, so I leaned forward to spam cloak so the dragonknight could just run past me or so. He dismounts straight on top of me and just spams talons so he reveals me and wrecks me because I don't have any chance with just one hand. Didn't really want to drop my icecream and make a mess on my desk either.
Now some may say this was just a coincidence, but I think not. Happened twice today.5 -
Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sadly things like Miat's have effectively rendered one class play style virtually extinct. It used to be a player had to be aware of his surrounding and be ready to be Ganked at any time. A good or cautious player would not allow for their shields to be down and knew it was a risk. Now, they are warned with enough time to save themselves from assassination. Not only that they are warned when enemies are in the area. Miat's is an addon that destroys the notion of competitive fair play, especially when effectively nullifying one class's primary specialty, attacking from stealth. It's pathetic ZoS allows for it and more-so they don't effectively police hacks, bots and macro users.
That's nonsense. That makes the assumption that every player uses Miats and therefore every NB is now defunct.
Well my NB still causes absolute murder and mayhem and if Miats saves my target from my initial attack, I have a bunch of other tricks up my sleeve to annihilate them.
If your playstyle is suddenly ruined simply because your initial attack breaks down, you need to practice. Or play another class.Joined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
Grand Master Crafter
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Stream
Lims Kragm'a
Bam Bam Bara0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭No even half way decent player will be stopped by Miat's add on. I gank quite a bit and there are multiple ways around it that I found through trial and error and guildies. Blaming add ons or ZOS on why you get beaten just makes people Zerg more and actually practice less.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not only are there addons that detects attacks from stealth, but some addons even let you see stealthed players aswell. This I noticed today.
I was outside Vlastarus in Cyrodiil, sitting in stealth so no one would find me while I ate my ice cream. And I sat there for a good 5 minutes not touching my keyboard. Out of nowhere I see a mounted enemy dragonknight far away from me just running towards Roebeck. He made a quick turn towards my direction in full speed. I didn't want any combat because I was eating my ice cream, so I leaned forward to spam cloak so the dragonknight could just run past me or so. He dismounts straight on top of me and just spams talons so he reveals me and wrecks me because I don't have any chance with just one hand. Didn't really want to drop my icecream and make a mess on my desk either.
Now some may say this was just a coincidence, but I think not. Happened twice today.
That is some BS, I'm sorry you were on the receiving end of that cheater.
Was the ice cream good though?"Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm1 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No even half way decent player will be stopped by Miat's add on. I gank quite a bit and there are multiple ways around it that I found through trial and error and guildies. Blaming add ons or ZOS on why you get beaten just makes people Zerg more and actually practice less.
Personally I am not blaming the addon for losses as, again, I usually win those fights regardless. It does, however, give an unfair advantage to those who use the addon."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm1 -
Runschei✭✭✭✭✭
✭ParaNostram wrote: »Not only are there addons that detects attacks from stealth, but some addons even let you see stealthed players aswell. This I noticed today.
I was outside Vlastarus in Cyrodiil, sitting in stealth so no one would find me while I ate my ice cream. And I sat there for a good 5 minutes not touching my keyboard. Out of nowhere I see a mounted enemy dragonknight far away from me just running towards Roebeck. He made a quick turn towards my direction in full speed. I didn't want any combat because I was eating my ice cream, so I leaned forward to spam cloak so the dragonknight could just run past me or so. He dismounts straight on top of me and just spams talons so he reveals me and wrecks me because I don't have any chance with just one hand. Didn't really want to drop my icecream and make a mess on my desk either.
Now some may say this was just a coincidence, but I think not. Happened twice today.
That is some BS, I'm sorry you were on the receiving end of that cheater.
Was the ice cream good though?
Yeah it was great. Went for a 2nd one after the incident.0 -
cyx54tc✭✭✭✭Not only are there addons that detects attacks from stealth, but some addons even let you see stealthed players aswell. This I noticed today.
I was outside Vlastarus in Cyrodiil, sitting in stealth so no one would find me while I ate my ice cream. And I sat there for a good 5 minutes not touching my keyboard. Out of nowhere I see a mounted enemy dragonknight far away from me just running towards Roebeck. He made a quick turn towards my direction in full speed. I didn't want any combat because I was eating my ice cream, so I leaned forward to spam cloak so the dragonknight could just run past me or so. He dismounts straight on top of me and just spams talons so he reveals me and wrecks me because I don't have any chance with just one hand. Didn't really want to drop my icecream and make a mess on my desk either.
Now some may say this was just a coincidence, but I think not. Happened twice today.
From what I know, the same API that Miat's addon is using will fire if you use cloak when facing your opponent. Awesome API eh?
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cyx54tc✭✭✭✭Bombashaman wrote: »As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.
They once did change the API and made this addon completely useless. Miat was saying that is going to be the final version of the addon because the next patch kills it.
BUT, BUT! apparently ZOS broke more stuff after the change so they reverted it and marked the API as "working as intended".
Edited by cyx54tc on September 2, 2017 5:23PM0 -
Bombashaman✭✭✭Bombashaman wrote: »As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.
They once did change the API and made this addon completely useless. Miat was saying that is going to be the final version of the addon because the next patch kills it.
BUT, BUT! apparently ZOS broke more stuff after the change so they reverted it and marked the API as "working as intended".
Kind of my point. They say API is working ok. Some players think it's cheating, but ZOS does not think so. At least not officially. What CAN you do if they really can't fix it?0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭@ParaNostramParaNostram wrote: »1 - But it does from invisibility spells.
Not that i know of, but i didn't test this distinction.ParaNostram wrote: »2 - How is it trolling to attack with a heavy attack from stealth?
When addon showed notifications for heavies from stealth some people trolled people with the addon by chain starting a heavy and canceling it, thus producing a spam of notification.ParaNostram wrote: »3 - Wasn't what was being discussed. If that was the case it'd be that much worse though.
It was. I replied to the points in the thread, not just in your OP.ParaNostram wrote: »4 - Clarification on this point please?
The addon doesn't 'know' if any particular attack came from a stealthed origin or not. Thus the notifications are the same.ParaNostram wrote: »5 - So a class using the mechanic that most strongly plays with that class is not fair play? I admit, it is difficult for people to fight a Nightblade who knows how to use stealth and invisibility, but skilled players can do it. It is a rare day that I fall to a magblade or stamblade using stealth and invisibility as a crutch.
1. If something is available for players it doesn't make it 'fair' if used against other players. Not being fair is not necessarily an undesirable thing, though.
2. The argument about counterplay is moot. Everybody knows this. Skilled players use it consistently. The addon is not a desperate 3rd party method to counter anything in the game. It's a UI addition that makes some aspects of combat easier to perceive.ParaNostram wrote: »6 - A nightblade can be built to play however somebody wants to build it. On my magblade, I do not require stealth nor invisibility to play it, have won fights without it, but it is ordinarily a big part of my play. Dancing in and out of invisibility knowing when it is worth the expenditure of magicka and when it is not is a strategic decision.
Just like expecting your targets to predict/react to/get notified about your attacks from stealth.
You are invisible in cloak. In my opinion expecting the targets to be oblivious about your attacks is to ask too much from one spammable skill (cloak). You might disagree, but i won't start another multi-threaded discussion about what is or isn't fair, regarding stealth.ParaNostram wrote: »7 - Failure of ZOS then.
ZOS's design choice.ParaNostram wrote: »8 - I don't know why people are calling for Miat to be banned personally. I'm only showing how the addon is a crutch.
Because people express their frustration at my expense. This is fine.Edited by Dorrino on September 2, 2017 11:04PM1 -
Runschei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not only are there addons that detects attacks from stealth, but some addons even let you see stealthed players aswell. This I noticed today.
I was outside Vlastarus in Cyrodiil, sitting in stealth so no one would find me while I ate my ice cream. And I sat there for a good 5 minutes not touching my keyboard. Out of nowhere I see a mounted enemy dragonknight far away from me just running towards Roebeck. He made a quick turn towards my direction in full speed. I didn't want any combat because I was eating my ice cream, so I leaned forward to spam cloak so the dragonknight could just run past me or so. He dismounts straight on top of me and just spams talons so he reveals me and wrecks me because I don't have any chance with just one hand. Didn't really want to drop my icecream and make a mess on my desk either.
Now some may say this was just a coincidence, but I think not. Happened twice today.
From what I know, the same API that Miat's addon is using will fire if you use cloak when facing your opponent. Awesome API eh?
But I did not cloak before he was literally on top of me nearly. His sudden turn could not have been a coincidence, as it was spot on me. Not a cm to the side, but spot on.0