Addons Detecting Attacks from Stealth?

Thogard

Miat's is not cheating. The dev's have specifically said it isn't cheating. Instead of whining about it, you should download it and use it.

Calling people who use Miat's "cheaters" is as absurd as calling someone who uses resource poisons "cheater." Then you're just a hop away from calling everyone better than you a "cheater."

There are clear definitions of what constitutes cheating. Let's keep them clear so that real cheaters (macro users, cheat engine users, anyone who modifies location data, etc) are treated as seriously as they should be.

Ackwalan

Malic wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

MIATs add-on is just the known add-on. Since that add-on was private for sometime until he released it, just imagine what other "private" add-ons can do.

Im going to be blunt. Add - ons cant tell you anything that the API isnt storing. Which if memory serves me correctly the lua is havok script.

What this means is any addon out there is essentially pulling, or using data you can use as well. If you dont know how to obtain it thats another matter entirely.

Now should we be able to get this data? Im not so sure thats another matter entirely but YES there are "private" addons out, that do not violate TOS.

The API was changed after miats add-on became public. There are some very clever people making add-ons, there are also some cheaters making add-ons.

WaltherCarraway

Miat could have made it proprietary.

Hypocrisy on some people is real.

cyx54tc

PlagueSD wrote: »

Miats just tells you when you enter combat. That happens as soon as you're targeted and someone starts charging an attack. Game's working as intended. Addon is just warning the player that they've entered combat. Most just automatically roll dodge because they know an attack is incoming.

If ZOS wants to fix this, they need to change WHEN a player enters combat. They can change the combat status from "when someone is attacking you" to "when you take damage" and that will fix it.

not really. you can just hit the snipe button and immediately animate cancel it with block. No sound, no enter combat, no skill fired, never got out of stealth, no visual. BUT the addon will tell you about it.

PlagueSD

cyx54tc wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Miats just tells you when you enter combat. That happens as soon as you're targeted and someone starts charging an attack. Game's working as intended. Addon is just warning the player that they've entered combat. Most just automatically roll dodge because they know an attack is incoming.

If ZOS wants to fix this, they need to change WHEN a player enters combat. They can change the combat status from "when someone is attacking you" to "when you take damage" and that will fix it.

not really. you can just hit the snipe button and immediately animate cancel it with block. No sound, no enter combat, no skill fired, never got out of stealth, no visual. BUT the addon will tell you about it.

Right...Because you STARTED an attack on a character which put them IN COMBAT. The addon let them know they are being attacked.

cyx54tc

PlagueSD wrote: »

cyx54tc wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Miats just tells you when you enter combat. That happens as soon as you're targeted and someone starts charging an attack. Game's working as intended. Addon is just warning the player that they've entered combat. Most just automatically roll dodge because they know an attack is incoming.

If ZOS wants to fix this, they need to change WHEN a player enters combat. They can change the combat status from "when someone is attacking you" to "when you take damage" and that will fix it.

not really. you can just hit the snipe button and immediately animate cancel it with block. No sound, no enter combat, no skill fired, never got out of stealth, no visual. BUT the addon will tell you about it.

Right...Because you STARTED an attack on a character which put them IN COMBAT. The addon let them know they are being attacked.

Unless we are talking about different "in combat" here. But if you mean combat mode then you will only enter it when you actually got hit by a skill/attack (in PVP). The API lets you know even before the skill is fired, even if it was canceled. So none of you is in combat mode or will be.

zaria

Palidon wrote: »

Cheating, exploiting and scripting is running rampant in PvP play. Seems ZOS for whatever reason they have, has turned a blind eye and allows it to continue. A good example, The Miat's addon which has been complained about in the past yet it still exists. There is no doubt the addon gives players an early warning against a stealth attack thus they have an advantage against a Nightblade trying to attack from stealth. As long as their is no deterrent which has to come from ZOS, players will cheat and use addons to help then in that endeavor. You can complain but until ZOS takes action like I said nothing will change.

It would only warn you against an ability with casting time, uppercut or snipe, HA from some weapons also some class abilities like crystal frag and dark flare. Yes this would be typical opening attacks.

No idea why legal probably no easy way to prevent sending you are targeted information, blocking it might also block
out telegraphing attack warnings, yes they are not stealthed.We are also not talking about very competent developers.

Macros is nice doing rotation on boss but see it as an handicap in PvP, that is outside the opening rotation. Because of traveling time you can have ability with casting time or HA, LA and second ability hit at once.

And then you have cheat engine stuff.

Malic

Ackwalan wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

MIATs add-on is just the known add-on. Since that add-on was private for sometime until he released it, just imagine what other "private" add-ons can do.

Im going to be blunt. Add - ons cant tell you anything that the API isnt storing. Which if memory serves me correctly the lua is havok script.

What this means is any addon out there is essentially pulling, or using data you can use as well. If you dont know how to obtain it thats another matter entirely.

Now should we be able to get this data? Im not so sure thats another matter entirely but YES there are "private" addons out, that do not violate TOS.

The API was changed after miats add-on became public. There are some very clever people making add-ons, there are also some cheaters making add-ons.

Your talking about hacking, miats add on never did, and does not now hack the API. If youre broadening the context to include hacking, I wouldnt know anything about that, if you do, I wouldnt post about it.

rfennell_ESO

If you are in *stealth* and use a heavy attack there will not be a notification to Miat's.

Invis isn't stealth though... so it will report the attack.

The way around it is to charge the heavy attack and select the person to target at the end of the cast.

All abilities will notify from stealth or invis at their start of cast though.

Lastly, Even if you don't actually attack someone... ie they move out of range and you can't finish your cast, it will still activate combat music. So you don't actually even need miat's to tell someone is attacking or trying to attack you.

I think it's in need of a change, but I also think the US government should award me all past taxes paid as a gift.

kargen27

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

AD and DC use it they need a handicap

DC will tell you AD and EP run it because they need to cheat to compete.

AD will tell you DC and EP run it because they need an advantage.

Funny thing is each faction will also tell you the other two work together all the time.

People from all three factions use this add-on. It is becoming more popular because people who would normally avoid this type of add-on are now justifying it by saying so many others run it I have to use it just to make things fair again.

Hempyre

Miat's addon doesn't send any info from stealth attacks. Nor can any other legit addon. They can only use info based on the api. Zos changed the way that worked some time ago.

All these peeps saying it does that kind of stuff are just talking out their asses... They have no idea what they're talking about.

Ackwalan

Malic wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

MIATs add-on is just the known add-on. Since that add-on was private for sometime until he released it, just imagine what other "private" add-ons can do.

Im going to be blunt. Add - ons cant tell you anything that the API isnt storing. Which if memory serves me correctly the lua is havok script.

What this means is any addon out there is essentially pulling, or using data you can use as well. If you dont know how to obtain it thats another matter entirely.

Now should we be able to get this data? Im not so sure thats another matter entirely but YES there are "private" addons out, that do not violate TOS.

The API was changed after miats add-on became public. There are some very clever people making add-ons, there are also some cheaters making add-ons.

Your talking about hacking, miats add on never did, and does not now hack the API. If youre broadening the context to include hacking, I wouldnt know anything about that, if you do, I wouldnt post about it.

No I'm not talking about hacking. I'm talking about the API was changed after miats add-on became public. It was changed because miats add-on was practically a radar letting the user know how many stealthed people were near.

Knootewoot

Some addons give warnings when to dodge, about incoming projectiles when the cleanse etc. I don't use Miat so I can't say if that one someone is using. But there are several others which do give this information. Combat cloud also gives "to much" information.

Enslaved

Knootewoot wrote: »

Some addons give warnings when to dodge, about incoming projectiles when the cleanse etc. I don't use Miat so I can't say if that one someone is using. But there are several others which do give this information. Combat cloud also gives "to much" information.

That is just great. And there are still people that have nerve to say that bs is not cheating? WTF, I mean, Zos, how the F is this possible?

Tavore1138

Without entering the whole 'is using Miat's cheating?' debate it is certainl;y one of the reasons that I can't face playing PvP any more.

I used to play PvP for a few hours most days, leading guild raids and soloing. I was never 'great' but I always enjoyed it and while I would curse the lag and certain skills at times there was a sense that everyone was playing through the same impediments and the game was largely 'fair'.

Then came the CE debacle and the realisation that ZOS had no plans to really deal with it, the long running gap closing into keeps issue which ruined low and medium pop campaigns and then things like Miat's which just re-inforced that the devs don't really seem to have any plans to make PvP a level playing field for all.

Now, as I say, I rarely bother even going into a campaign any more because I just don't have any trust left that the person I am fighting isn't using something they shouldn't to enhance their 'skills' - and I am not one of those people who will just surrender to it and use questionable things myself so I just don't bother.

Slick_007

PlagueSD wrote: »

Miats just tells you when you enter combat. That happens as soon as you're targeted and someone starts charging an attack. Game's working as intended. Addon is just warning the player that they've entered combat. Most just automatically roll dodge because they know an attack is incoming.

If ZOS wants to fix this, they need to change WHEN a player enters combat. They can change the combat status from "when someone is attacking you" to "when you take damage" and that will fix it.

mobs work off when they are hit. unsure why players arent the same.

altemriel

cheaters, these kind of addons should be banned

Feanor

altemriel wrote: »

cheaters, these kind of addons should be banned

I disagree. Banning should be started with Khajiit RPers with the notable exception of SantieClaws.

rfennell_ESO

Hempyre wrote: »

Miat's addon doesn't send any info from stealth attacks. Nor can any other legit addon. They can only use info based on the api. Zos changed the way that worked some time ago.

All these peeps saying it does that kind of stuff are just talking out their asses... They have no idea what they're talking about.

The only thing that was changed was Heavy/medium/light attacks from stealth (not invis).

All abilities from stealth give a warning.

ParaNostram

Ankael07 wrote: »

Is there no one aware of heavy attack sounds? Or is it easier to blame on cheating/addons rather than studying game mechanics?

I had suspected it could be this but I also didn't know if there was an addon. I know when it comes to dodging snipes out of stealth this is a valid approach that skilled players are able to do. However, these dodges were happening too consistently with too many people who would then be wrecked in an actual straight up fight mere moments later, thus discrediting the possibility of this being a player who is simply good enough to dodge something coming at them.

Simply put if you have something ringing a bell or popping something on screen telling you when to dodge, and you dodge, is that you being a skilled player or is that an addon holding your hand//offering an unfair advantage?

Edit:

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

AD and DC use it they need a handicap

Same as how EP can't win unless they outnumber DC three to one but okay sugar this wasn't supposed to go into a senseless faction BS but you took it there.

PlagueSD

Slick_007 wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Miats just tells you when you enter combat. That happens as soon as you're targeted and someone starts charging an attack. Game's working as intended. Addon is just warning the player that they've entered combat. Most just automatically roll dodge because they know an attack is incoming.

If ZOS wants to fix this, they need to change WHEN a player enters combat. They can change the combat status from "when someone is attacking you" to "when you take damage" and that will fix it.

mobs work off when they are hit. unsure why players arent the same.

Nope. before they fixed Warden bears, mobs aggroed AS SOON as you sent in your pet. Was annoying as hell. Also, mobs will agro based on range (if they're hostile) not when you hit them.

Dorrino

I was summoned in vain:)

Nope, the addon doesn't show heavies from stealth.

Nope, you can't troll people with heavies from stealth anymore.

Nope, the addon doesn't track anybody just because they are nearby anymore.

Nope, the addon doesn't distinguish between stealthed and non-stealthed attack anymore.

Nope, nightblades' free sniping from stealth is not fair play.

Nope, nightblades don't rely on stealth opener to be effective in pvp.

Yes, addons can only show the information ZOS API provides to them.

Nope, Miat can't be banned for whatever addon he decides to make.

Much love everybody!

Biro123

altemriel wrote: »

cheaters, these kind of addons should be banned

Cheaters, lol. Let me ask you a question. Who decides the rules of a game/sport? Is it the odd player who doesn't like certain aspects or is it the creaters/governing body.

I mean, if somebody noticed that wearing flippers wasn't illegal in international swimming competitions, started wearing them and winning, does it mean they are cheating? Do other competitors have a right to label them as cheats when it is clearly not against the rules?
You may not like that its legal, but don't blame the players.. If you don't think it should be allowed, then talk to the organisers/governing body to try to get the rules changed.

Now in ESO, that conversation has kind of already happened, and they have decided that flippers are OK (but only below a certain size).. Yet you still call flipper-wearers cheats..?

Personally, I don't like what these addons can do, and don't like that they are allowed, but its kind of stupid to try to beat flipper-wearers while bare-foot and call them names when you lose.

Jade1986

Honestly this kind of *** is the reason people stop playing pvp. I was super happy to come back to the game aftera year and be able to use a nature based scout class. Now, only to find out, the entire class is rendered useless because some *** decided to make an add on that holds peoples hand, and encourages laziness. Honestly, console is looking better and better atm. Honestly, being ganked kept me on my toes, and made pvp interesting. Now, if I do not use this addon I am at a huge disadvantage. I seem to recall ZoS saying a while back that addons that give players an in combat advantage over the other not using it would not be tolerated. I guess that was just hot air from ZoS. Typical.

Jade1986

In fact this is a quote from ZoS.

"As we get closer to launch, our beta events have continued to grow in player-size, and that growth has resulted in even more and more of you taking the time to experiment with our UI modding tools. It’s exciting to see the amazing add-ons you have come up with and for us, as developers, it’s also a very important part of the beta process. Seeing what the community wants to add or change is helpful as we continue to tweak and balance the game – what are people looking for? what works? what doesn’t? Finding the right answers to these questions often means leaving the API very open during this beta phase. It helps us see where limits may or may not be and helps us determine what makes the best possible ESO experience for everyone.
We welcome creativity and have built ESO on player-choice, but as a game played with thousands of others, we also must be mindful of any mods that give clear mechanical advantages in competitive situations. Maintaining a level playing field will always be our first priority. Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others. We do not want those who aren’t interested in using an add-on to feel compelled to do so because they cannot remain competitive without them. As we continue beta testing, we’ll continue to evaluate add-ons and the implications they have on other players, but you can expect changes to the API before launch and will share that information as it becomes available. Thank you to all of you that have created add-ons during this time – we appreciate your help in making ESO the best it can be."

Again, I guess it was all just hot air.

Bombashaman

As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.

Jade1986

Bombashaman wrote: »

As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.

Developer apathy does not change the fact that it is , in a way, cheating. There are several online games out there where devs just ignore blatant cheating. So I guess god mode mods, and wall hacks are ok though, because devs dont see a problem? Who knew? ( obviously those arent in this game, but this is around the same line )

red_emu

With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!

The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!

Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?

So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!

Jade1986

red_emu wrote: »

With the amount of lag in this game, for some people this is the only way to know they are being attacked!

The amount of times I'm strolling around and all of a sudden I'm dead! 3 very long cast abilities, an ultimate and a surprise stealth attack in less than 0.5 sec? Some would call it cheating, macroing but it is just a lag!

Won't be using the add-on myself, but I believe it's good for players who only start PvP'ing. I understand you feel so much better about yourself that you can kill someone who appears to just stand there and do nothing and you think 'Ha! Noooob!', but in 99% of cases they don't even know you have been hitting them for about 6 seconds already before the game decides to display animations/update health bar etc. etc... Imagine how disheartening it must be to enter Cyrodiil for the first few times and you constantly die within 0.5 seconds with no idea how on earth is that possible?

So to all the nay sayers I say: Stop crying and have some fun!

Imagine how disheartening it is to go into pvp after leveling your character to cp 160 and finding out your entire class is useless in pvp because of an add on. I think they would be happier learning a few mechanics to avoid that . Such as mage light, caltrops, potions, certain armor sets, etc, instead of having to completely remake your class because of an add on.

Bombashaman

laced wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

As ZOS haven't done anything about changing the API (or did they a little bit a while ago) so Miat's would have been useless, one has to presume they don't consider using it as cheating.

Developer apathy does not change the fact that it is , in a way, cheating. There are several online games out there where devs just ignore blatant cheating. So I guess god mode mods, and wall hacks are ok though, because devs dont see a problem? Who knew? ( obviously those arent in this game, but this is around the same line )

That's exactly what I am saying. If devs could in this imaginary game do something about wall hacks etc, but don't, they consider it ok.

In ESO, they could change the API, they have done it before. They choose not to. Only reasonable conclusion is that they don't consider it cheating.

Oh and I don't use it.