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PVE is too Easy
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Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭seedubsrun wrote: »"We don't have enough hard content!" -Hasn't done any of the hard content.
Try trials, dlc dungeons, and the arenas. Overland content is supposed to be easy & story based so noobs and RPers who don't build their characters for fighting have content that they can complete.
Content difficulty goes like this from easiest to hardest:
-Overland
-Delves
-Public Dungeons
-Normal Dungeons
-Vet Dungeons (non DLC)
-Normal Trials
-DLC Vet Dungeons
-Vet Craglorn Trials
-vDSA
-vMA
-Vet MoL
-Vet HoF
If your're just doing overland content most of the time, and haven't done anything harder than vet dungeons, you haven't even touched the game's hard content.
You clearly haven't read any of the conversation going on here. No worries Whoslappedthepie hasn't either so you're not alone
Thanks @seedubsrun. It is truly amazing how many people did not read the initial post or any of the 4 pages worth of replies before they start posting. I'm just going to do a quick breakdown of my in game experience in hopes that more folks don't post the basics.
In 3 years I've done:
All Overland zones including delves and public dungeons
Normal Dungeons
Craglorn- Before and after the changes
Vet Dungeons- DLC and non(there are some hard ones, mainly when pugging, but you cannot run these every day and night I play and still maintain enjoyment of the game).
Trials (I've done these for something challenging but once again..just how man damn times can you do these. Plus I don't give a rats about leaderboards and timed runs)
PVP- This is the most challenging content and it's probably why I do it the most. Like everything else in life, I prefer balance though so I cannot do it day in and day out exclusively.
Maelstrom
So there you have it. My quick breakdown of playtime over 3 years.
What I'm beginning to see is this game is heading toward the World of Warcraft route and from some people's responses I can see they are fine it. The whole end game is only the instanced dungeon route. Why do overland content when you can just sit in town, wait for a dungeon pop, and head to your instance. The last time I went back to WoW a couple of years ago no one was touching any of the overland content. I went into druid flight form and flew over the old lands and they were dead. What a waste of content! I'm sorry but I'd hate to see that here one day. The zones here look pretty amazing. Some of us spend quite a bit of time in them instead of going to a grind spot, pounding out 50 and then waiting around for dungeons and trials to form. Hell I'd love to see ships one day. We a lot of unused oceans to expand to as well. Anyway to sum it up once again, why just have all of that area just for new players when it could be used by all?
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Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, you'd need a "vet" overland zone, like the old VR overland zones.
Bump all trash mobs to the level of vet dungeons.
No simple chests.
Small chance of gold jewellery from world bosses.
To me this isn't a bad idea as it would give players the choice of their preferred difficulty. With increased difficulty should come greater rewards.
You know I like exploring and farming and I spend quite a bit of time in the overland portion of the game, especially when I'm on my non healer and waiting for group finder for vet dungeons to pop. It can take a long time...During my time in the mass amount of land area available, which is a huge portion of the game, I'd love to get more out of it. More challenge, better chance at better loot, etc. sounds pretty nice.
How do you see this balanced with other existing "difficult" content or otherwise and make sure it would not be abused?
Example grouping. Other content and rewards are scaled to either a group or solo and everyone has their own instance. Now this "world boss" that all over sudden drops gold jewellery, would it be camped, camped in rotation with other bosses - by a large "raid" basically?
I feel this is the kind of power creep we don't need.
If you want harder content because you are bored with the combat - fine. But the rewards will stay the same.
If you actually have an issue with the dropped rewards in general then I feel that would be a different thread.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett3 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, you'd need a "vet" overland zone, like the old VR overland zones.
Bump all trash mobs to the level of vet dungeons.
No simple chests.
Small chance of gold jewellery from world bosses.
To me this isn't a bad idea as it would give players the choice of their preferred difficulty. With increased difficulty should come greater rewards.
You know I like exploring and farming and I spend quite a bit of time in the overland portion of the game, especially when I'm on my non healer and waiting for group finder for vet dungeons to pop. It can take a long time...During my time in the mass amount of land area available, which is a huge portion of the game, I'd love to get more out of it. More challenge, better chance at better loot, etc. sounds pretty nice.
How do you see this balanced with other existing "difficult" content or otherwise and make sure it would not be abused?
Example grouping. Other content and rewards are scaled to either a group or solo and everyone has their own instance. Now this "world boss" that all over sudden drops gold jewellery, would it be camped, camped in rotation with other bosses - by a large "raid" basically?
I feel this is the kind of power creep we don't need.
If you want harder content because you are bored with the combat - fine. But the rewards will stay the same.
If you actually have an issue with the dropped rewards in general then I feel that would be a different thread.
Truth is @Rouven, I'd be perfectly fine with tougher overland/delve encounters. It doesn't have to all mob encounters either. Like I mentioned earlier even some roaming elite mobs to, maybe a lt. or champion mob sometime thrown in the group that way you just don't rush in but actually take a second to look over the mobs to make sure your not getting over your head. These kind of things could also encourage some grouping amongst players in general. They wouldnt all be that way of course but right now, if I make a new character with no cp it's easy enough alone but if you have a buddy playing and your both hitting these mobs they're like flies.
You also make a good point as far as it could open the door to abuse, especially when better gear is involved. Honestly I don't have an answer for that since I'm not a developer. People always find some way to exploit game mechanics if possible.Edited by Zardayne on August 31, 2017 5:13PM0 -
victoriana-blue✭✭✭✭I think people (in general) are underestimating just how *much* new players have to learn.
I've been playing over a year, so when I started a new character on a new account I was rarely challenged overland. But that's because I understand/know:
- when to use aoe vs single target attacks and to unlock at last one of each asap
- passives and secondary skill effects
- status effects and resource management
- stamina vs magicka abilities and what increases their damage
- block vs interrupt signals, how long I have to get out of a red cone
- when to roll-dodge or break free
- positioning (and moving!) my character during fights and how to group mobs efficiently
- different mob mechanics (imps move to stay at range, spriggans summon nature adds)
- kill priority
- sources of healing, burst vs hot, when to use them
- adjusting my settings to give me more information
- *understanding* all that information at a glance
- putting all that together and deciding how to approach a situation in, like, a second
And lots more, I'm sure. (Not counting gear sets, procs and how to manipulate them, CP, predicting what players around you will do, etc.) And the game is.. *lacking* when it comes to teaching new players how to do things beyond the absolute basics.
That's a huge amount of information for people to learn. You can certainly transfer some of that from other games, but for those of us who came to ESO from single-player TES games we have the extra challenge of learning how to MMO.
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All that together, I don't know how to balance new people's needs/fun with those of experienced players who want more of a challenge. Alternate instances are definitely an option, but I remember how empty my gold zones were before One Tamriel and I don't want to go back to that; maybe the 1T removal of alliance restrictions will make the difference here.CP 750+
Never enough inventory space, even with storage coffers and a mule account2 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭So, you have reached then end (the one that is fun for you).
You may try a new game.
Unfortunately you may be right. Being a MMO gamer though and one that mainly plays the fantasy genrevictoriana-blue wrote: »I think people (in general) are underestimating just how *much* new players have to learn.
I've been playing over a year, so when I started a new character on a new account I was rarely challenged overland. But that's because I understand/know:
- when to use aoe vs single target attacks and to unlock at last one of each asap
- passives and secondary skill effects
- status effects and resource management
- stamina vs magicka abilities and what increases their damage
- block vs interrupt signals, how long I have to get out of a red cone
- when to roll-dodge or break free
- positioning (and moving!) my character during fights and how to group mobs efficiently
- different mob mechanics (imps move to stay at range, spriggans summon nature adds)
- kill priority
- sources of healing, burst vs hot, when to use them
- adjusting my settings to give me more information
- *understanding* all that information at a glance
- putting all that together and deciding how to approach a situation in, like, a second
And lots more, I'm sure. (Not counting gear sets, procs and how to manipulate them, CP, predicting what players around you will do, etc.) And the game is.. *lacking* when it comes to teaching new players how to do things beyond the absolute basics.
That's a huge amount of information for people to learn. You can certainly transfer some of that from other games, but for those of us who came to ESO from single-player TES games we have the extra challenge of learning how to MMO.
---
All that together, I don't know how to balance new people's needs/fun with those of experienced players who want more of a challenge. Alternate instances are definitely an option, but I remember how empty my gold zones were before One Tamriel and I don't want to go back to that; maybe the 1T removal of alliance restrictions will make the difference here.
That's the thing. I really don't know how they could do it other than sprinkle in some harder mobs, create a few more harder zone events, etc. I too remember the old vet zones and how empty they were once you got there. The delves I can see offering a harder difficulty but overland would be tough. I truly don' know the answer I just wanted to throw the initial post out there to spark some debate on it and perhaps someone had an idea that the devs would see. I also know there's no real quick fix to this issue. I can only hope in the future they try something.
At this point after 5 pages of discussion I just feel the old "it is what it is" . Like most of the recent MMOs before it, I've got to accept that end game pve is instanced and the overland world for a veteran is just a lobby waiting for my dungeon finder to pop. A pretty picture that doesn't offer anything but crafting nodes. At this point I feel like I've just been playing MMOs for far too long and too hard and like someone mentioned prior to this, "maybe I need to find a new game" or take an extended break.0 -
Gracous✭✭✭✭If you want harder/more exciting then they should open all areas to PVP. You can PK your own alliance! They did this in ultima online when it first started and it made for exciting times! You never knew if people were going to kill you or help you. It could be frustrating at times but it was fun. This would also solve the PVP/PVE gear balancing problem! Just my two cents.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Overland is way too easy I agree. It was better before the One Tamriel update, then it had the standard difficulty climb of a typical MMO. Pushing ahead to higher level zones let you flex your muscles but it was still fun.
It was a mistake to get rid of that system, the "port anywhere" is fine but level scaling should have stayed. Craglorn is the only semi-difficult overland PvE content we have now, and that's only if you solo everything.
I do recommend getting into a trials guild, if for no other reason than to experience something new.
Totally wrong. The enemies scale at your level now and for everyone. It's just that if you have mastered the combat, it will still feel somewhat easy. Before you had the entire zones and quests totally useless if you have, for example, overleveled the content by playing cyrodiil. You were fighting level 5 or 15 enemies like a veteran. It drove me mad, as I'm a quester, as well as pvper. One Tamriel is one of the best updates this game had. It finally feels like a true ES game.
But I agree with a suggestion for a random enemy that would have tougher hits, hp and be more challenging.
It's not about combat mastery. Someone at max CP with good gear can kill any overland monster in 2-3 hits. That monster can only hit for naybe 3-5% of the player's health (due to insane damage mitigation from CP passives).
When I look at a monster and it dies, that's not due to my mastery of the combat system. That's due to ridiculous power creep.
Citation. Needed.
You keep claiming this, so why dont you give me this glorious build, current patch, list gear. Give us something aside from your repeated claim the system is so easily exploitable.
Then we can actually see how much power creep there is.
Just about any set can achieve those results. Pick whichever one you want from this list if you're completely clueless (for magicka).
For CP, obviously put points into logical spots. This is a typical setup for magicka: thaumaturge, master at arms, elfbron, elemental expert, elemental defender, thick skinned, hardy, ironclad.
There is no chance you won't kill overland mobs in 2-3 hits with this setup. And there is no chance you can die to any overland mob (unless you step away from the computer). The amount of protection all those defensive CP points give you is insane.
Onus isn't on me to provide proof. Onus is on you. I'm not gonna do your research for you.
Present some video evidence or knock it off, the same 'IT'S SO EASY YOU CAN TWO SHOT THEM' thing isn't a talking point.
If I have time this weekend, I'll upload a 10 second video. I'm guessing you're using some nonsense hybrid build (like magicka set on stamina toon or something). If you're even remotely optimized, you're gettimg the results I mentioned.
I'm a tank player.
Or cant you -read-? I know the print is very small but it shows how much your paying attention.
I've seen people optimized, I've seen people quest with optimzied builds, and I know that there's drawbacks to that kind of setup nowadays. And even if there is not, that's not 'power creep'. That's the difficulty of the content. And it's that way because the previous way of doing things wasn't profitable.
The old system had alot of faults, oh believe me it did. But it had checks and balances to keep players from growing too powerfull. And it based the content around that predicted upper level of DPS. Power creep is a factor, sure. But it's not the cause, it's the effect. The cause, is the cornerstones of what -was- balance was have been ripped away, and the problem ain' gonna get sorted until we redo the system.
You want the powercreep to stop? Advocate system reform. Otherwise, it's just gonna keep happening, and any attempt to stifle powercreep is gonna be a empty measure. But if what you want is the old days where the filthy casuals stayed out, you wont get it. That's nor profitable. Wizardry proved it. The fact that got thrown out proved it.
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on August 31, 2017 7:04PM1 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭seedubsrun wrote: »Yeah agreed. I brought up this issue too in a couple threads. People either agree or say it's a waste of time/will hurt new players by changing it or will just say "there's raids and vet dungeons if you want a challenge". I suggested a more thorough tutorial or a proving grounds type area to teach players how to use their skills as well as how to perform in their chosen role (DD, healer, or Tank) would allow Zos to increase the difficulty without hurting anyone. I also suggested a vet difficulty toggle for overland and normal quest gameplay. My worry is as the game goes on, the CP cap raises, and new areas are added to the game, that overland/quest content wont even be worth doing aside from just enjoying the story aspects. Really if enemies just scaled to maybe 100 points below your CP rank starting at CP 300 that would help instead of getting to CP 160 and just staying there. I'm with ya. Give us something tougher!
Honestly, I don't agree that there should be places to "teach" people to play. They should play the way they want. I do agree that there should be a veteran toggle but I don't think it should be put into place until ZOS balances the game. It's ridiculous the way it is now. I went into a public dungeon with a DK and a sorc, with my stamblade, and I'll just say the game is not balanced and hasn't been since they started it.1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭If you want harder/more exciting then they should open all areas to PVP. You can PK your own alliance! They did this in ultima online when it first started and it made for exciting times! You never knew if people were going to kill you or help you. It could be frustrating at times but it was fun. This would also solve the PVP/PVE gear balancing problem! Just my two cents.
Ultima Online was some of my best MMO days ever..pre Trammel/Feluca of course
Of course Ultima had the Overland experience I miss. You culd be outside of town hunting orcs, deer for hides, etc and then next thing ou know you ran into a troll or a lich and you were running for your life. It brought that instant excitement to pve, excitement that some friends of mine still laugh about to this day..like trying to outrun an orc mages fireball that was like a heatseeker through the forest. Good times for sure.Edited by Zardayne on August 31, 2017 7:05PM0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I believe that the game needs more overland group content. Some starter zones and perhaps the first large zone can be kept like it was, but I'd like to see more zones as Craglorn. I find that area almost right in regards of difficulty.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I believe that the game needs more overland group content. Some starter zones and perhaps the first large zone can be kept like it was, but I'd like to see more zones as Craglorn. I find that area almost right in regards of difficulty.
You are the minority in that reguard. Craglorn was a -massive- failure.3 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I believe that the game needs more overland group content. Some starter zones and perhaps the first large zone can be kept like it was, but I'd like to see more zones as Craglorn. I find that area almost right in regards of difficulty.
You are the minority in that reguard. Craglorn was a -massive- failure.
Yep, Docs right on Craglorn unfortunately. I'm realizing very quickly that my beloved MMORPG genre is only MMO due to the amount of players able to see each other because most nowadays are content with playing them single player.1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Part of finding overland, delve and public dungeon mobs easy if you have played for 3 years (as I also have) is knowing which abilities do what and which are good to use in different situations and which passives to prioritize. It's not just CP that makes a difference it's also our knowledge.
I see true brand new players struggle with content I find ridiculously easy when I play alts with no CP allocated on my 2nd account. I assume part of the mob balancing is done with them in mind.3 -
seedubsrun✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »seedubsrun wrote: »Yeah agreed. I brought up this issue too in a couple threads. People either agree or say it's a waste of time/will hurt new players by changing it or will just say "there's raids and vet dungeons if you want a challenge". I suggested a more thorough tutorial or a proving grounds type area to teach players how to use their skills as well as how to perform in their chosen role (DD, healer, or Tank) would allow Zos to increase the difficulty without hurting anyone. I also suggested a vet difficulty toggle for overland and normal quest gameplay. My worry is as the game goes on, the CP cap raises, and new areas are added to the game, that overland/quest content wont even be worth doing aside from just enjoying the story aspects. Really if enemies just scaled to maybe 100 points below your CP rank starting at CP 300 that would help instead of getting to CP 160 and just staying there. I'm with ya. Give us something tougher!
Honestly, I don't agree that there should be places to "teach" people to play. They should play the way they want. I do agree that there should be a veteran toggle but I don't think it should be put into place until ZOS balances the game. It's ridiculous the way it is now. I went into a public dungeon with a DK and a sorc, with my stamblade, and I'll just say the game is not balanced and hasn't been since they started it.
I think there's a difference between "teaching" people how to play and "telling" them. By teach I mean expanding the tutorials in a way that would give players more info without overwhelming them. Nowhere in the game does it tell you about different damage types or what they mean or how to use skills together to do solid damage, it doesn't teach you how to tank an enemy or how to heal your group effectively.
Now it's easy to say that just playing the game will do that for you and for many that's true but you can't go more than a few threads most days without someone mentioning PUGing a dungeon with some CP 660s that still don't have any idea what they're doing. That's frustrating for the people in the group who do know and has to be frustrating for the people that die every 5 seconds and can't figure out why. Now think about all the people that find content of all sorts in the game easy versus people that have played awhile and still struggle on normal and public dungeons. This is the raise the floor, lower the ceiling issue that has plagued Zos.
I really believe that the best way to start resolving that issue is by Zos taking the responsibility of giving players the tools they need to be successful in this game. That means showing them the ropes better. Sure, it could and should also fall on the community to help these players along but there's many out there that don't listen or just don't get it. There should be a fall back for them. I initially thought it should happen at the beginning but came to believe it should be accessible around level 20 and should be more like optional content. By offering players a deeper understanding of how the game works they will be better players in the end, capable of creating their own builds, playing more how they want, and getting access to more content. At that point the game can be harder and the floor will have been raised.
I started a thread not too long ago trying to explore what that might look like and there were some pretty good ideas in there. You can find it here if you'd like to contribute or offer constructive feedback:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368386/raise-the-roof-errr-i-mean-floor#latest2 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just consider overland content as a tutorial Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Yarlenzey✭✭✭✭
Got to love when the thread is over with one reply.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »No idea what was said in that unorganized single paragraph so your message will not be getting through.
I assume you are saying vMA is to easy and it does become easy once someone has it down and does it regularly.
I am assuming you are saying vMoL HM and vHoF HM is fairly easy and considering the top raid groups getting good scores do demonstrate they have done much to figure it out and can do it reliably due to running it enough and their high scores demonstrate that. A new trial is to be added before the end of the year. iirc.
If this is about open world, it is rare to find a game were that is challenging for a player who has been in the game for 3 years and it is a poor idea to ignore new players coming into the game at this point.
Hardly, that's why we're 3 pages in and still going.
Well, I stuck it out and read the long, difficult paragraph. I didn't make any connection to trials and group delves from what I read. I thought that you were complaining that Everything (PvE) was too easy.
I'm not clear on why "no idea what was said" was subsequently able to to form the basis of a response at all.
Sadly, I don't share your boredom. I only do overland bosses if I'm passing by and others have started the work.
I don't much in the way of group dungeons, as too many people here have made it clear that they don't want to share that experience with people trying to "L2P".
So, my XP development is limited to Dolmens, single-player delves, random overland combat spawns and critter kills, with the occasional group boss.
With my current character firmly based in crafting, I have found the skyshard map as a way of forcing me into delve activity to get the additional points for regular combat improvements. That has taken some of the 'grind' factor away.
If you are suggesting that the game be tweaked to make it more difficult, then my experience is that they are doing that all the time. Just as I research and develop a new skill or technique, they nerf something that makes my time investment redundant.
Personally, I'd prefer them to stop doing that; and spend some time on stability issues.I got suspenders for saying "Testicular Mass" instead of "Balls". like, rilly.6 -
BrianDavion✭✭✭✭If you want harder/more exciting then they should open all areas to PVP. You can PK your own alliance! They did this in ultima online when it first started and it made for exciting times! You never knew if people were going to kill you or help you. It could be frustrating at times but it was fun. This would also solve the PVP/PVE gear balancing problem! Just my two cents.
That wouldn't be "exciting" that would be.. frustrating. it'd open up the gamer to greifing etc. for all PVPers say "how awesome it would be" and how so many people would play it. Every game that has adopted that type of game play has suffered, and PVP servers are almost always the lowest population ones. PVPers tend to "crap in their own nest" and create a VERY negitive play experiance. not all of them of course. but... it' definatly have a negitive impact3 -
Lord Xanhorn✭✭✭✭The problem with the difficulty in this game is the choice that many people love of no vertical gear progression. If 1 pc of gear is roughly the same as another save the stat allocations and set bonuses, then all the content is roughly the same as well.
Take Craglorn for example. That would have been much more popular if the gear you got in there was significantly better than what you could craft for instance. The problem was that it wasn't. So the reward was not worth the effort.
So because the rewards are roughly equivalent (within a small percentage) then all the difficulty must also be roughly equivalent or no one will do the tough stuff (Craglorn).
When you look at a game heavy into gear vertical progression like WoW, then something like they instituted with 4 raid difficulties and 20+ different 5 man dungeon difficulties makes more sense cause if you do mythic level raiding, the gear is heads and shoulders better than the base level.
This can't be done in ESO with the current end game mentality.Edited by Lord Xanhorn on August 31, 2017 8:50PMI'm kind of a small deal!1 -
MCBIZZLE300✭✭✭✭✭Sorry @Giles.floydub17_ESO I'm at work and had to throw something together at break.
My main gripe is the overland and delve pve. It's just too easy. As I said in my monster paragraph I've made new characters and made sure I didnt allocate any CP and it was still too easy. About a month ago I tried to recruit my nephew into the game as he used to play Ultima online with me back in the day and he last a few days and quit logging in. When I finally got around to calling him and asking what the issue was he said man it's just too easy. So even a new player (only one I've asked) felt the same way.
During the leveling of one of my last characters I actually did a ton of my leveling in Cyrodiil just to add some fear and excitement. It gave me that old excitement of leveling on pvp servers back in the day.
Unfortunately I've never been one for timed trials. Honestly I haven't even tried one as it's not bag. Some of the vet dungeons are tough and I really enjoy that aspect but I can only run the same thing so many times before I feel like a hamster on a wheel.
As Khenarthi said, I'm sure if they made it too hard it would hurt the new player experience or for casual folks. I just wish there was some happy medium there.
I know what your saying, unless its a vet trial like mol or hoff the pve aspect is way too easy. If your maxed cp you almost 1 shot any overland mob and vet dungeons are too easy. However if you want harder content do trials.1 -
seedubsrun✭✭✭✭Lord Xanhorn wrote: »The problem with the difficulty in this game is the choice that many people love of no vertical gear progression. If 1 pc of gear is roughly the same as another save the stat allocations and set bonuses, then all the content is roughly the same as well.
Take Craglorn for example. That would have been much more popular if the gear you got in there was significantly better than what you could craft for instance. The problem was that it wasn't. So the reward was not worth the effort.
So because the rewards are roughly equivalent (within a small percentage) then all the difficulty must also be roughly equivalent or no one will do the tough stuff (Craglorn).
When you look at a game heavy into gear vertical progression like WoW, then something like they instituted with 4 raid difficulties and 20+ different 5 man dungeon difficulties makes more sense cause if you do mythic level raiding, the gear is heads and shoulders better than the base level.
This can't be done in ESO with the current end game mentality.
This is certainly part of the issue in this game. It would be great if the harder the content you did the better the gear you got. But then you get into the problem though where end game players are significantly more powerful than lower tier players, complaining ensues, PvPers lament, people quit, and the nerf hammer comes down. Then lower sets get buffed (like the 2-4 piece buffs recently) and then there's a lot of gear that's roughly similar which is great for options but gives no real incentive to play end game content. Then new sets and content come out and they're either meh to maintain the status quo or they're the most powerful and the cycle starts again.1 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am sad now. I wanted to come back to ESO again, but from what I'm reading, it's still too hard and everybody wants it to be harder. Oh well.2 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭+1 for giving a meaningful option to upping PvE difficulty outside of trials, vet DLC dungeons, and vMA.
You know you have no reason to group with a friend trying out the game. Even with a naked new character with no CP allocated it feels pointless to walk in the same direction as someone else for trying to get a hit in before things die. Not to mention if you do manage to die from being afk or something there's absolutely 0 sting to it.
If Dark Souls is one extreme, ESO is the other. Some options for moderation would be nice.Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses, a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
Edited by Jeremy on August 31, 2017 10:56PM3 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?
I would agree with you as it pertains to the landscape and public delves.... which if I am reading your-paragraph-correctly you are.
The over world is far too easy on this game. Outside of world bosses - a couple of seconds is all that it takes to kill most enemies. There is really no incentive to group up at all. There is no sense of danger. There is no need to tread carefully or to even stay aware. And this certainly cuts back on my fun and enjoyment while questing. There is no doubt about that. Despite the multitudes of demons and blood-thirsty wildlife out to get you - the wilds of Tamriel are a complete joke.
That being said, people complained endlessly about Craglorn until it was eventually nerfed. So this is an example of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This game does have plenty of challenge however if you go looking for it. The DLC dungeons for example on veteran mode are challenging to the point of frustration. And Veteran Maelstrom Arena is masochistic. But I'm in complete agreement with you nonetheless. It would be nice if the landscape and delve monsters got a significant buff.
But what about the rest of us then that don't want or need that kind of difficulty? Should ESO turn in to a game exclusively for ultra-competitive gaming professionals while the rest of us that are, frankly, not that good and never will be get left in the dust and forgotten?
That's fine if that's what happens, but we have subscriptions too and we spent our money on the game as well. Why are we not allowed to have fun too?
Being able to slaughter everything in a couple of seconds without the faintest hint of danger isn't that interesting or fun to me though. And that is quite a long way from being ultra competitive and professional.
I'm not suggesting that they increase the difficulty of the landscape enemies to rival those you would encounter in a veteran dungeon. But it would be nice if they posed enough of a threat that they could actually fight back or make bringing a friend along worthwhile. It would also make exploring Tamriel more interesting if you had to stay aware of your surroundings and be at least somewhat careful. That would help bring the environments more to life.Edited by Jeremy on August 31, 2017 11:05PM1 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, you'd need a "vet" overland zone, like the old VR overland zones.
Bump all trash mobs to the level of vet dungeons.
No simple chests.
Small chance of gold jewellery from world bosses.
I'd say reintroduce certain VR-like zones and group overland zones again, but keep most other areas as they are now for the causual gamers. The difficulty in the old VR zones was right, the only thing which I found annoying was the short respawn timer of the mobs.
Also, the dolmens should be scaled (back) to the difficulty they once had.Edited by Adernath on August 31, 2017 11:21PM0
