STAMINA DPS IN PVE IS FINALLY SOMEWHAT BALANCED!!!

Artis · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. Every time you play, there is a chance you will make a mistake and die. Sure practice allows you to minimize that, but there is always a chance. Stam must deal with more mechanics and damage than magic. They are closer to the fight and don't have a shield. Therefore, the chances they will make mistake and die is always greater. They are rewarded with more damage. It's good balance that way if you ask me. Mechanics prevent more than 4 or 5 melee which is also good because if helps enforce the balance to some degree. Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense. As you practice the probability to make a mistake decreases and it becomes more and more probable that non of group members will die. In fact, top score runs have been no-death runs mostly for a while now (not talking vhof of course). You can't and shouldn't balance around the chances of dying unless the death rate is kept constant somehow. It's PvE you are talking about right now. Things are rather repetitive there.

Oh sure, not everyone can play stam right now, since we still don't have viable archers. But competition is there. For example, melee mages are kinda redundant now.

Either way, they absolutely shouldn't be rewarded with higher damage. It's not a reward in itself, too. But anyways, look at any older content - there melee don't deal with more mechanics than ranged, unless you consider avoiding red circles to be something you can't learn. They stack with everyone else and all. In fact, in AA ranged DPS have to deal with more mechanics than melee who can just DPS and mind their positioning. And again, top scores there will be (if not already are) no death runs. Same in HRC and DSA. Like come on, it's not unreal to do DSA with no deaths at least once with all stam dps - and 1 time is enough. If they have more DPS than ranged already and haven't died - how can groups with rangers beat their score? In SO everyone is forced in the melee range in the last fight before avoiding the world shaper, so melee don't have it harder. In MOL it's rangers who kite meteors, not melee. And everyone has to avoid orbs, range and melee. Not to mention that melee have cloak now and their resists are still much higher.

So no, I don't see your point here, sorry. Sure, if the uptime was much lower for melee you could justify them having more DPS while they are on the target but it would be balanced by the fact that they need to spend more time not dealing damage. But that's not the case for most content.

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

^^ sorry forgot to mention, for Stam DK?

DPShiro · August 2017

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

DPShiro · August 2017

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

You need to check and adapt to your team, for stam support these are mostly used;

Night Mothers Gaze
Sunderflame
Alkosh
War Machine
Morag Tong
Powerful Assault

No point if you only have SF/HR on and another team member has the same. That's why it's needed to optimize according to your current team.

Masel · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

Can you guys just stop exaggerating... god its like most of the people here are never satisfied at all. The best raids use about half & half, what the hell do you want more?

You see basically all specs and classes on leaderboards now (except for magicka wardens, they definetely need help), so it's probably the best spot this game has been in for a long time.

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

You need to check and adapt to your team, for stam support these are mostly used;

Night Mothers Gaze
Sunderflame
Alkosh
War Machine
Morag Tong
Powerful Assault

No point if you only have SF/HR on and another team member has the same. That's why it's needed to optimize according to your current team.

I'm selfish, I run Vicious Serpent and Hunding's Rage. Let the bears pay the bear tax, I pay the Homer tax...

Fallewarrior · August 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

You need to check and adapt to your team, for stam support these are mostly used;

Night Mothers Gaze
Sunderflame
Alkosh
War Machine
Morag Tong
Powerful Assault

No point if you only have SF/HR on and another team member has the same. That's why it's needed to optimize according to your current team.

I'm selfish, I run Vicious Serpent and Hunding's Rage. Let the bears pay the bear tax, I pay the Homer tax...

Thats why you are probably in a *** raid group.

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

Fallewarrior wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

You need to check and adapt to your team, for stam support these are mostly used;

Night Mothers Gaze
Sunderflame
Alkosh
War Machine
Morag Tong
Powerful Assault

No point if you only have SF/HR on and another team member has the same. That's why it's needed to optimize according to your current team.

I'm selfish, I run Vicious Serpent and Hunding's Rage. Let the bears pay the bear tax, I pay the Homer tax...

Thats why you are probably in a *** raid group.

Hahaha yeah vicious serpent & hundings isn't even top tier is it? Unless maybe VMA? I thought hundings pairs better with TFS? But yeah, that is pretty selfish xD oh well, if thats how you wanna play, bit of a let down for other guild members in certain situations. I guess it's okay if you're the only one running hundings... being"that" guy...

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

Fallewarrior wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

So is it going to be Twice fang, night mothers gaze/hundings & velidreth/mephala? Best in slot now?

There is no general BiS. It all depends on your group composition and set up/support.

OK but will this setup be a decent/top tier setup? I put nightmothers OR hundings (indicating situational) and other than that I don't know what else you would change around? Sunderflame if 2 other stam are using NMG & Hundings... I dunno?

I only have these sets on my Stam DK and I am just wondering if it still performs well this patch, I'm at work right now and I can't test it. Thanks.

You need to check and adapt to your team, for stam support these are mostly used;

Night Mothers Gaze
Sunderflame
Alkosh
War Machine
Morag Tong
Powerful Assault

No point if you only have SF/HR on and another team member has the same. That's why it's needed to optimize according to your current team.

I'm selfish, I run Vicious Serpent and Hunding's Rage. Let the bears pay the bear tax, I pay the Homer tax...

Thats why you are probably in a *** raid group.

Hahaha yeah vicious serpent & hundings isn't even top tier is it? Unless maybe VMA? I thought hundings pairs better with TFS? But yeah, that is pretty selfish xD oh well, if thats how you wanna play, bit of a let down for other guild members in certain situations. I guess it's okay if you're the only one running hundings... being"that" guy...

I dont do raids XD. Used to run NMG till I got my gold VO jewellery now I dont run trials at all. Just casual play now

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

Ah right ha :P yeah I'm annoyed cause I've got VO jewelry which I've used for ages. Now I need to run vSO for gold TFS jewelry ;( ugh. The grind is real. Just got my gold mending jewelry though so at least that's out of the way...

djogani · August 2017

I still remmember my first character which is still my main but kinda under the carpet if you know what i mean. He was nightblade then i choose Bosmer as race because you know sneaking, thieving little guys and then as weapon of first choice bow ofc because duh no brainer for Bosmer( i was looking all through lore perspective then). In PvE leveling was okay but survivability a little tougher. When i did hit 50 i tried PvP and oh boy those vamp dunmer dks and if fact everyone else had better survivability. Then i learned sta nb is all about offense go hard hit hard or even better gank if you survive and kill your target good if you dont longer fights always ending the same lol. Btw this was all LONG ago (2014) so i came back after long time hoping sta builds are better now and maybe survivability of sta nightblades. Even my second was sta build and no less than dragonknight and to top all that tank lol i know i was never much into magicka builds but i cant help it lol maybe im gona make healer and stamina ofc haha now that i found out you could do that with warden. Cheers.

Sheva I 7 I · August 2017

Destruent wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Liquid Lightning is something for mana-sorcs, what about NB, warden and especially dk and templar? There's literally no point in bringing them to trials...especially mDKs do lower dmg and lower also the uptime of offbalance with flamelash.

NB not that much to be honest, Templars provide minor sorcery+the best burn under 30%, Sorcs provide minor prophecy, mag dks give 10% fire damage increase, GL chaining adds in vMol as a stamina dk, everything has its place

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

Guys, what would be decent mundus stone to use for Stam DK for trials/dungeons? Warrior?

DPShiro · August 2017

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

Guys, what would be decent mundus stone to use for Stam DK for trials/dungeons? Warrior?

If a good group, Warrior. If not optimized and at/near pen cap, Lover.

ecru · August 2017

Raghul wrote: »

I guess many magicka players just haven't figured out yet how to do high damage and still sustain it?

looks like the solution is pretty obvious--have 11 people in your group with you, and a pet.

magsorcs have a major problem with sustain that makes them really unfun to play atm.

Dymence · August 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

Can you guys just stop exaggerating... god its like most of the people here are never satisfied at all. The best raids use about half & half, what the hell do you want more?

You see basically all specs and classes on leaderboards now (except for magicka wardens, they definetely need help), so it's probably the best spot this game has been in for a long time.

You just don't get it.

The best raids use half and half because the mechanics don't support more stamina. If they would top score runners would hands down run 8 stamina without contest. The extra AOE from magicka doesn't compare to how much more stamina pulls single while still having good cleave.

So what do I want?

I want magicka and stamina to be balanced to a point where there's actually a choice in how many of each you fill into your group. As it stands melee magicka like templars and DK don't even have a place anymore if you min/max your group setup.

WhoSlappedThePie · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

Can you guys just stop exaggerating... god its like most of the people here are never satisfied at all. The best raids use about half & half, what the hell do you want more?

You see basically all specs and classes on leaderboards now (except for magicka wardens, they definetely need help), so it's probably the best spot this game has been in for a long time.

You just don't get it.

The best raids use half and half because the mechanics don't support more stamina. If they would top score runners would hands down run 8 stamina without contest. The extra AOE from magicka doesn't compare to how much more stamina pulls single while still having good cleave.

..so are the top builds stamina DK? Are they using TFS, hundings, NMG or some variations of?

theamazingx · August 2017

Sheva I 7 I wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Liquid Lightning is something for mana-sorcs, what about NB, warden and especially dk and templar? There's literally no point in bringing them to trials...especially mDKs do lower dmg and lower also the uptime of offbalance with flamelash.

NB not that much to be honest, Templars provide minor sorcery+the best burn under 30%, Sorcs provide minor prophecy, mag dks give 10% fire damage increase, GL chaining adds in vMol as a stamina dk, everything has its place

For the record, I'm a magdk now, but pre-homestead I had little issue chaining for twins as a stamdk.

Saint_Bud · August 2017

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

theamazingx · August 2017

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

I feel your concern, but if it's any consolation, I found that you can spend ~10k gold to respec a dunmer magdk cp, morphs, and attributes to a stamdk that can pull up to 39k selfbuffed on a 6m dummy. Can't speak for templars, but dunmer DKs have the flexibility to adapt with a min/maxing team without rerolling or giving zos a dime.

reiverx · August 2017

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

MagDK won't ever be a top tier class to play.

Destruent · August 2017

Sheva I 7 I wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Liquid Lightning is something for mana-sorcs, what about NB, warden and especially dk and templar? There's literally no point in bringing them to trials...especially mDKs do lower dmg and lower also the uptime of offbalance with flamelash.

NB not that much to be honest, Templars provide minor sorcery+the best burn under 30%, Sorcs provide minor prophecy, mag dks give 10% fire damage increase, GL chaining adds in vMol as a stamina dk, everything has its place

sry, but thx for the laugh

But anyway...lets have a look at this:

Minor sorcery: you get that from healers or your stam-templar

"best burn under 30%": Pls talk to Stamblades...their execute hits for up to 80k whereas crappy radiant hits for ~60k at max atm. Did i mention, that impale can be weaved/block casted which adds an extra layer of DPS or defense to it?

10% more fire damage: who needs that with lightning-dmg-sorcs and Stambuilds?

Tanks + Stam-DKs should be able to deal with at least 4 adds on 2nd boss. You don't need a mana-DK here, in good groups stam-DKs won't even slot chains, tanks will chain adds alone.

So yes, everything has it's place except magicka-melee-builds and NB (but they do better, bc they only compete with sorcs).

edit1:

reiverx wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

MagDK won't ever be a top tier class to play.

Mag-Dk was a great choice until this patch in EVERY single patch (even in homestead where sorcs dominated)!

edit2:

theamazingx wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

I feel your concern, but if it's any consolation, I found that you can spend ~10k gold to respec a dunmer magdk cp, morphs, and attributes to a stamdk that can pull up to 39k selfbuffed on a 6m dummy. Can't speak for templars, but dunmer DKs have the flexibility to adapt with a min/maxing team without rerolling or giving zos a dime.

So your solution is to swap to stam and call it a day? problem solved for you i guess

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

I disagree with your reasoning. Those mechanics do in fact exist, and therefore they affect group makeup. That's like saying if a boss didnt need taunted, we wouldnt run a tank or if a boss didnt do damage we wouldnt need a healer. Those mechanics are inherent in just about every trial fight in the game so we must build accordingly. This is a good thing because it makes the fight more interesting and forces a bit of build diversity.

Furthermore, Many fights call for mechanics that favor having a few ranged and self reliant (big Shield) players in the group. Killing adds on Varlariel, mini mages on AA, Upstairs on HRC, Upstairs on VHOF second boss, VHOF Final boss, Back room on rakhaat, Speer team on manti, etc.

Sure if our goal was to murder a 50 million health dummy, we would all play stamina. But that is not the goal of this game for most of us.

Masel · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

I disagree with your reasoning. Those mechanics do in fact exist, and therefore they affect group makeup. That's like saying if a boss didnt need taunted, we wouldnt run a tank or if a boss didnt do damage we wouldnt need a healer. Those mechanics are inherent in just about every trial fight in the game so we must build accordingly. This is a good thing because it makes the fight more interesting and forces a bit of build diversity.

Furthermore, Many fights call for mechanics that favor having a few ranged and self reliant (big Shield) players in the group. Killing adds on Varlariel, mini mages on AA, Upstairs on HRC, Upstairs on VHOF second boss, VHOF Final boss, Back room on rakhaat, Speer team on manti, etc.

Sure if our goal was to murder a 50 million health dummy, we would all play stamina. But that is not the goal of this game for most of us.

Agreed, period, close this thread.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

reiverx wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The damage differant from stam to magicka is to high. I am not talking from a comparisom from a stam melle to a sorc or some other range fighter, just from melee to melee. Mdk and Magplar are deleted from top raid guilds, also some range classes needs some love.

MagDK won't ever be a top tier class to play.

@reiverx
I agree it's not right now, but mDK has spent more time atop DPS mountain than every other class combined since release. Admittedly, magic DKs and magic Templars have probably got the worst end of the recent balance, but good players can still pull really nice numbers with either. Also, DK in partuclar can play at what I call extended melee, other than Embers, you can DPS from the second row. Its not hard to move for one skill.

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

Can you guys just stop exaggerating... god its like most of the people here are never satisfied at all. The best raids use about half & half, what the hell do you want more?

You see basically all specs and classes on leaderboards now (except for magicka wardens, they definetely need help), so it's probably the best spot this game has been in for a long time.

You just don't get it.

The best raids use half and half because the mechanics don't support more stamina. If they would top score runners would hands down run 8 stamina without contest. The extra AOE from magicka doesn't compare to how much more stamina pulls single while still having good cleave.

..so are the top builds stamina DK? Are they using TFS, hundings, NMG or some variations of?

@WhoSlappedThePie
The Top Damage is certainly coming from stam, but there is some debate about which is best. The go to answer is DK, but people also make arguements for nightblade despite its more complex rotation. The best Varlariel parse I have seen this patch was a stamplar at 62K single target, but that's in one of the best raids in the world. Best parse I have seen in my raid was also a Stamplar at 54K ST.

In terms of gear, the answer is TFS is only viable in trash. Otherwise, stam coordinates sets. You need 1 NMG, 1 Sunderflame, probably two alkosh, perhaps a Morag Tong, and a few War Machines dont hurt either. There is no right answer for gear. Your group needs to work together and it doesnt matter too much which player wears which set as long as they are all accounted for. I carry all of the above plus Hundings and VO. I think it is best when you try to have each stam toon wearing a support set and each wearing a damage set.

Personally, I prefer Sunder and Hundings on my stam sorc, but I can still break 50k Single Target with Sunder and Nightmothers, and provide nearly 100% uptime on each.

Dymence · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

I disagree with your reasoning. Those mechanics do in fact exist, and therefore they affect group makeup. That's like saying if a boss didnt need taunted, we wouldnt run a tank or if a boss didnt do damage we wouldnt need a healer. Those mechanics are inherent in just about every trial fight in the game so we must build accordingly. This is a good thing because it makes the fight more interesting and forces a bit of build diversity.

Furthermore, Many fights call for mechanics that favor having a few ranged and self reliant (big Shield) players in the group. Killing adds on Varlariel, mini mages on AA, Upstairs on HRC, Upstairs on VHOF second boss, VHOF Final boss, Back room on rakhaat, Speer team on manti, etc.

Sure if our goal was to murder a 50 million health dummy, we would all play stamina. But that is not the goal of this game for most of us.

And I disagree with your reasoning. The only reason we aren't seeing full stam groups is because of the limitation on mechanics. In DPS stamina is miles ahead and essentially you just need some ranged people to fill the slots. Nothing here about building accordingly.

The tank and heal argument is silly because they're completely different roles. DPS should be comparable to one another.

You summed it up perfectly yourself. Right now stamina is there to do DPS, and magicka is just there to be mechanic slaves. Dealing with adds on varlariel and going outer on Rakkhat.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

I disagree with your reasoning. Those mechanics do in fact exist, and therefore they affect group makeup. That's like saying if a boss didnt need taunted, we wouldnt run a tank or if a boss didnt do damage we wouldnt need a healer. Those mechanics are inherent in just about every trial fight in the game so we must build accordingly. This is a good thing because it makes the fight more interesting and forces a bit of build diversity.

Furthermore, Many fights call for mechanics that favor having a few ranged and self reliant (big Shield) players in the group. Killing adds on Varlariel, mini mages on AA, Upstairs on HRC, Upstairs on VHOF second boss, VHOF Final boss, Back room on rakhaat, Speer team on manti, etc.

Sure if our goal was to murder a 50 million health dummy, we would all play stamina. But that is not the goal of this game for most of us.

And I disagree with your reasoning. The only reason we aren't seeing full stam groups is because of the limitation on mechanics. In DPS stamina is miles ahead and essentially you just need some ranged people to fill the slots. Nothing here about building accordingly.

The tank and heal argument is silly because they're completely different roles. DPS should be comparable to one another.

You summed it up perfectly yourself. Right now stamina is there to do DPS, and magicka is just there to be mechanic slaves. Dealing with adds on varlariel and going outer on Rakkhat.

That's fine, we dont have to agree. I will keep having fun and playing both my magic and stam toons depending on what my raid needs, and I assure you they need both, because raids do in fact have mechanics.

You can keep criticizing balance, but I just spent a year playing nothing but mSorc which was preceded by a year playing Nothing but mDK. During the DK era, raids where comprised of at least half if not more magic DKs, as they were top DPS. During the second half of the sorc Era, raids where basically 8 mSorcs. I switched to Sorc for a VMOL HM progression before they were OP, because we needed some range for, you know, mechanics.

For the first time in 2 years I am able to get on just about any one of my toons an contribute to a score run. That has NEVER been true in ESO until this patch. But hey, keep complaining about balance, you wont be the only one.

Shadzilla · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Stam cannot push score without help from magic toons. You see a competition where none exist.

Stam doesn't need magicka toons to help them. They just need healers. The only reason you don't see full stamina completions is because it's not mechanically possible to have 8 DD's in melee in most trials.

I disagree with your reasoning. Those mechanics do in fact exist, and therefore they affect group makeup. That's like saying if a boss didnt need taunted, we wouldnt run a tank or if a boss didnt do damage we wouldnt need a healer. Those mechanics are inherent in just about every trial fight in the game so we must build accordingly. This is a good thing because it makes the fight more interesting and forces a bit of build diversity.

Furthermore, Many fights call for mechanics that favor having a few ranged and self reliant (big Shield) players in the group. Killing adds on Varlariel, mini mages on AA, Upstairs on HRC, Upstairs on VHOF second boss, VHOF Final boss, Back room on rakhaat, Speer team on manti, etc.

Sure if our goal was to murder a 50 million health dummy, we would all play stamina. But that is not the goal of this game for most of us.

And I disagree with your reasoning. The only reason we aren't seeing full stam groups is because of the limitation on mechanics. In DPS stamina is miles ahead and essentially you just need some ranged people to fill the slots. Nothing here about building accordingly.

The tank and heal argument is silly because they're completely different roles. DPS should be comparable to one another.

You summed it up perfectly yourself. Right now stamina is there to do DPS, and magicka is just there to be mechanic slaves. Dealing with adds on varlariel and going outer on Rakkhat.

That's fine, we dont have to agree. I will keep having fun and playing both my magic and stam toons depending on what my raid needs, and I assure you they need both, because raids do in fact have mechanics.

You can keep criticizing balance, but I just spent a year playing nothing but mSorc which was preceded by a year playing Nothing but mDK. During the DK era, raids where comprised of at least half if not more magic DKs, as they were top DPS. During the second half of the sorc Era, raids where basically 8 mSorcs. I switched to Sorc for a VMOL HM progression before they were OP, because we needed some range for, you know, mechanics.

For the first time in 2 years I am able to get on just about any one of my toons an contribute to a score run. That has NEVER been true in ESO until this patch. But hey, keep complaining about balance, you wont be the only one.

LOL, dude. It is like I don't even have to say anything anymore. Your arguments are nearly identical to mine, therefore resulting in much less typing on my end. For this I thank you. Best pve balance I have ever seen in this game, by miles.