STAMINA DPS IN PVE IS FINALLY SOMEWHAT BALANCED!!!

Shadzilla · August 2017

We are now in the 4th patch of this games existence that stamina dps toons in pve are relevant, not frowned upon when brought into trials. Throughout the history of this game we have seen magicka dps toons completely dominating pve other than thieves guild, dark brotherhood, morrowind, and horns of the reach. Obviously in thieves guild and dark brotherhood, maelstrom daggers and axes really put stamina dps well ahead of mag toons for the first time, by a large margin at that. Sadly, after the 33% nerf those weapons took in 1 tamriel, they have been useless and under performing compared to simple crafted sets ever since. Regardless, things are where they should be at this point in time. Stam toons are doing big single target damage, while mag toons are bringing the heat with the infamous aoe damage. The buffs to blade cloak has brought survivability that is somewhat comparable to damage shields. The only thing I can really complain about is the single target throne stam dks have always sat in. I would like to see any other stam class able to take over that throne one day, considering stam dks have always been meta tanks. Regardless, really happy to see the state of pve right now and the inclusion of stam dps toons. I know ZOS sees about a 9-1 hate-praise ratio on these forums, and I think in this general aspect they have achieved the best balance this game has ever seen as far as pve dps goes. It surely beats the 8 mag sorc dps runs that were required for world record runs just a few months ago in homestead. ZOS, you have listened to the community and achieved good balance here, for that I thank you.

If anyone is interested in reminiscing the horrible spots stamina dps were in, I will link a couple threads that were made just earlier this year.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind/p1

Tryxus · August 2017

Gilvoth · August 2017

simply false.
i disagree with you entirely.
and no i'm not joking and yes i am serious.

Shadzilla · August 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

simply false.
i disagree with you entirely.
and no i'm not joking and yes i am serious.

Think we found the mag sorc, LET EVERYONE ELSE PLAY BRUH!

Thogard · August 2017

What kind of sets does a Stam DK run if they want to be too single target DPS?

Kammakazi · August 2017

They still have poop AoE damage though

Artis · August 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

simply false.
i disagree with you entirely.
and no i'm not joking and yes i am serious.

Think we found the mag sorc, LET EVERYONE ELSE PLAY BRUH!

While I can see the irony and understand why sorcs shouldn't complain (lol), let's not forget about other mages like templar and NB (and now Warden), who were never great even when Magicka was dominating. In fact, it wasn't magicka dominating - it was DKs and sorcs dominating. Well, not mNB is still at the bottom - it seemed okay in morrowind but seems bad now (and no, there's no AOE damage outside of destro ulti, no one is using sap essence anymore because you need that shield and won't go melee without it, usually. And ground dots + lightning heavy attack is a weak combo on a NB). Then again - I'm not complaining or panicking - there were so many changes, that it's too early too say.

That being said, at this point in time when people still didn't figure out everything - it is pretty common to see both magicka and stamina in raids. However, the trend seems to be that now stamina is just much better and we'll simply have stamina dominating. And then it's not better than magicka dominating, in principle.

That's why I would like to remind about 1 more thing (probably unexpected in this thread): races shouldn't affect end-game performance! If the racials weren't so powerful - many fewer people would be unhappy, because they could always respec between stamina and magicka version of their class and still stay somewhat relevant (not to mention that it's fun - sometimes playing 1 build gets boring, but you do love your character and want to play it, but don't want to gimp it). The only reason for complaints would be aesthetic

And the fact that it's unfair that someone can't play what they prefer - but AT least they could still raid with their character, which is something.

DarkAedin · August 2017

Kammakazi wrote: »

They still have poop AoE damage though

Put 2 traits on 2h weapons instead of one and 2h becomes the stam aoe.
We are close

Gilvoth · August 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

simply false.
i disagree with you entirely.
and no i'm not joking and yes i am serious.

Think we found the mag sorc, LET EVERYONE ELSE PLAY BRUH!

i only play stamina nightblade, i dont agree with you that we stamina nightblades have equal damage output with everyone else, and i dont agree with you that we stamina nightblades can survive like everyone else.
i do not play a sorcerer. i hate sorcerers.

WuffyCerulei · August 2017

Even tho I'm magicka usually, I'm glad to see stam isn't as crappy as it used to be. Heck, stamDKs for awhile were the WORST stam dps. Now they're at the top. The solace I have with the top dps being stam is that they're all melee, and range dps is still needed.

idk · August 2017

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

Balsagna · August 2017

As a magblade, I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

Shadzilla · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

Stam was doing well last update, morrowind is one of the 4 patches stam has been viable as listed in the original post. Stam is pulling better single target not, as they always should have... Mag still does much better aoe damage, resulting in a mixture of stam and mag toons.

Sunah · August 2017

Stam has been doing fine man.. Yeah they sucked during release, except for that one stamplar I met in vDSA who was just annihilating everything..

Shadzilla · August 2017

Sunah wrote: »

Stam has been doing fine man.. Yeah they sucked during release, except for that one stamplar I met in vDSA who was just annihilating everything..

Give these 2 threads a glance over, stamina dps has only been viable for 4 patches over the last 3.5 years. Very impressed on the current balance that is achieved atm.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312992/why-are-stamina-setups-bad-for-trials-pve/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind/p1

Izaki · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.

Masel · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.

And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.

ecru · August 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.

And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.

mag is still too far behind stam atm. no good reason to bring a magsorc to raid besides off balance at this point.

GreenhaloX · August 2017

It may be for group efforts or outing where you have healers and tanks, but for soloing PvE contents, such as dolmen, world bosses, dungeons, etc.. not so much. There is no damn balance when Hardy and Elemental has been shriveled down to 15% and most won't even get to 15%. The dps capabilities/skills also have been nerfed time and time again, and adds/mobs/bosses are packing more heat because of the nerfs. Even damage shields and self-healing for stam toons (well, aside from Vigor) are crap now. I'm surprised they haven't nerf that yet. Nahh, I can't see the balanced, overall. Nerfing.. so sad; crying shame..

Masel · August 2017

ecru wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.

And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.

mag is still too far behind stam atm. no good reason to bring a magsorc to raid besides off balance at this point.

Of course there is. Ranged dps is very much needed in every trial.

Morgul667 · August 2017

Looks like it is balanced since last patch

Great news

DPShiro · August 2017

Destruent · August 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Stam was doing well last update. Just some are slow to adjust. Saw some great parses. Stam is much stronger now comparted to magicka.

I wouldn't say much stronger, and I'd add that stamina is only better in single target and in sustain. Stamina has the advantage of being able to synergize several sets to augment the total group DPS, magicka still has better AoE and better utility (synergies, etc.), so both are important to have in groups.

And this is how it is supposed to be. Playing stamina is a risk-reward playstyle, so it should reward you with higher damage on the bosses.

mag is still too far behind stam atm. no good reason to bring a magsorc to raid besides off balance at this point.

Of course there is. Ranged dps is very much needed in every trial.

It's true and also shows the whole problem of magicka/stamina balance in terms of PvE-dps atm. Magicka is only allowed bc it buffs stam-dps and has better ranged DPS. Other then that there's no point in bringing a magicka-dps to trials.

Izaki · August 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Destruent · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Liquid Lightning is something for mana-sorcs, what about NB, warden and especially dk and templar? There's literally no point in bringing them to trials...especially mDKs do lower dmg and lower also the uptime of offbalance with flamelash.

DPShiro · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make faced paced rotation (like in OT patch) work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Izaki · August 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make paced rotation work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Yeah I totally ditched magicka in a big way as soon as Homestead was over, because I couldn't stand the sight of my Sorc, cause I've been playing it non-stop for almost a year. So yeah Stamblade and Stamplar it is nowadays.

Btw outside of vHoF you can sustain a normal rotation pretty well actually, but you basically pop orbs on CD.

DPShiro · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make paced rotation work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Yeah I totally ditched magicka in a big way as soon as Homestead was over, because I couldn't stand the sight of my Sorc, cause I've been playing it non-stop for almost a year. So yeah Stamblade and Stamplar it is nowadays.

Btw outside of vHoF you can sustain a normal rotation pretty well actually, but you basically pop orbs on CD.

Yeah stam is fun, but we always have so many who want to play it now that I never get the chance in our team.
Oh and even if you can sustain it in some fights, the snoozing HA rotation with the gimp and flappy bird outperforms it

Are there other Trials than vHoF? Naaah, it's where I live now

Shadzilla · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make paced rotation work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Yeah I totally ditched magicka in a big way as soon as Homestead was over, because I couldn't stand the sight of my Sorc, cause I've been playing it non-stop for almost a year. So yeah Stamblade and Stamplar it is nowadays.

Btw outside of vHoF you can sustain a normal rotation pretty well actually, but you basically pop orbs on CD.

Yea being forced to run 8 magicka dps toons for competitive trials runs has been the case for 90% of this games existence, was disgusting. Very happy we now have a mixture with some stam toons for some extra single target dps.

Shadzilla · August 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make faced paced rotation (like in OT patch) work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Really looking forward to the day where light attack rotations come back for sure.

Destruent · August 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Destro ult, Liquid Lightning synergies for Alkosh, massive AoE damage, on top of what you already mentioned

Only play my mSO for rewards and to change things up now and then. Tried with so many setups but can't make faced paced rotation (like in OT patch) work, and playing zoo keeper with HA rotation make sure me want to uninstall the game.

All about that mNB for me now

Really looking forward to the day where light attack rotations come back for sure.

If you go full regen build with serpent/attro etc you can play a light-attack-build

but yeah...seriously, you loose so much DPS by making it work it's just not worth it