It's time for an mDK execute. (PVP and PVE applicable)

Savos_Saren · August 2017

Throughout the history of ESO, the DK has received nerfs:

- No permablocking + damage. (Yes, there are ways to permablock- but those builds barely have any damage and are easily ignored in PVP... this was a good change)

- Dragon Fire Scale has been beaten to a pulp. Yes, it was fair to not be able to reflect Meteor- but now it reflects fewer and fewer abilities. No "beams". (sure, I guess we'll deal) And since the introduction of Morrowind, it doesn't block "birds" (F-it... ZoS will just make an exception to the beams!) This is an ugly change.

- Major Mending has been slashed. Igneous shields is profitable for a group if the DK is a tank... but otherwise useless. DK healer? 6 seconds of extra heals? Garbage. This was a bad change.

- Inferno is absolutely lacking. Inferno, at one point, used to be on par with the current state of Sorc's hurricane/boundless storm. Now it's a weak, 5 second "burst" (if you can call it that) of heals or damage. The passive benefits of both Inner Light or Expert Hunter by far outweigh Inferno. This was a horrendous change.

- Our "class defining abilities" are DoTs... which, in PVP, are purge-able. WTF? So, anyone with a purge or who walks into a purge is immune to a ton of the DK's damage. This has never changed.

Here's the thing: I'm not asking for an ability execute. I'm asking for a passive execute similar to Sorcs. Just give mDKs a passive execute on "Combustion" that applies only to enemies with the burning effect (because you nerfed that, too, ZoS). Perhaps something like "10% chance to cause an enemy to instantly combust when under 15% health". [/i]Yes, this is slightly higher than the Sorc passive- but Sorcs also have an active ability that is an execute.

I could be screaming "Nerf Sorcs" or "Nerf NBs" or "Nerf Wardens"... but I'm not. I'm just suggesting one passive ability to bring mDKs (not stamDKs) up a little closer to "balance" in PVP.

starkerealm · August 2017

DKs had an execute. It got pulled.

Sheezabeast · August 2017

I want a stamina morph of whip

Savos_Saren · August 2017

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I want a stamina morph of whip

While you may want that- stamDKs have two executes at their disposal. 2H execute and DW execute. (which is what most stamDK builds use)

I'm trying to offer a solution for mDKs. They have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY in order to get a magicka-based execute. There is no "does XXX damage to enemies below XX health" skill, weapon, or armor set that equals an execute.

max_only · August 2017

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Savos_Saren · August 2017

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Not saying that you're wrong: but I would argue that a passive with a 10% chance to execute on the "burning" effect (which is also based off chance and not 100% guaranteed) which only applies to enemies with less than 25% health is pretty balanced.

If you were to actually add an execute ability (not a passive)- you'd be looking at something that does roughly 250-300% extra damage vs low health enemies (which falls in line with other executes). That may look a little unbalanced.

FloppyTouch · August 2017

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Sooooo a class with strong dots stong burst damage and great defense and a class execute should have a passive execute too?

But not the slow and low damage dot build mdk that a single vigor tick or a healing ward can reset the fight?

Seems balance move along...

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

No. Just no.

mDK doesn't have to be second templar.

max_only · August 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Sooooo a class with strong dots stong burst damage and great defense and a class execute should have a passive execute too?

But not the slow and low damage dot build mdk that a single vigor tick or a healing ward can reset the fight?

Seems balance move along...

This isn't a nerf sorc thread... or is it? Lol

I know that Sorcs have it all and a bag of chips, I'm just saying giving Dk a bag of chips scares me lol

Judas Helviaryn · August 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

DKs had an execute. It got pulled.

starkerealm · August 2017

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I want a stamina morph of whip

Yeah, a stam whip would be pretty snazzy.

Crusades · August 2017

Honestly DK is my main and I pvp with him, as I'd love to have an execute I haven't had one for so long I don't miss it. I use leap now and WHEN it goes off properly it works great(zos be great if you fixed that).
I think not having an execute keeps our other skills from people crying nerf DK.
However everyone else has one, so why not us?
Lol

Savos_Saren · August 2017

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No. Just no.

mDK doesn't have to be second templar.

That doesn't really explain much. So- you don't want all classes to work toward the same balance? You don't want mDK damage dealers to be on par with Sorcs?

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Sooooo a class with strong dots stong burst damage (curse and crystal) and great defense (hardened ward + harness magic) and a class execute (mage wrath) should have a passive execute (implosion) too?

But not the slow and low damage dot (burning embers, maybe a talon and engulfing flame) build mdk that a single vigor tick or a healing ward can reset the fight?

Seems balance move along...

For better reading.

I think it's time to pull 50k/25.3k/21.5k mag/hp/stam magDK to bring the havoc.

Whenever one says "nonono magdk doesn't have pet so not possible 50k mag", then my goal is accomplished.

Stay hugging, stay naive.

Savos_Saren · August 2017

max_only wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Sooooo a class with strong dots stong burst damage and great defense and a class execute should have a passive execute too?

But not the slow and low damage dot build mdk that a single vigor tick or a healing ward can reset the fight?

Seems balance move along...

This isn't a nerf sorc thread... or is it? Lol

I know that Sorcs have it all and a bag of chips, I'm just saying giving Dk a bag of chips scares me lol

Yeah... screw balance amongst classes right? Sorcs get mad when people say "nerf sorcs"- but then they get mad when someone says "buff XXX class"

Savos_Saren · August 2017

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

DKs had an execute. It got pulled.

IKR??? Just like how Wardens were initially in the Beta- but then they got pulled. But now we have Wardens again. It's like ZoS can come up with ideas to try to balance initial concepts of the game....

max_only · August 2017

jaburns wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Dk is low key killing it out there. They are really dominating. They aren't as loud as obnoxious as Sorcs which is why you aren't hearing about it. They are killing it in Battlegrounds, in Cyrodiil and even as dps for dungeons. I can't tell if I'm being outclassed by stam dk or not, most run a staff on one bar and a weapon on the other. They deserve the time to shine, no doubt, I'm just really afraid of what will happen if you give them an auto execute like Sorcs have. Make it more like radiant oppression or impale. They have so much utility and are absolutely indispensable for group play (much to my chagrin) that giving them an auto execute would really put them over the top imho.

Sooooo a class with strong dots stong burst damage and great defense and a class execute should have a passive execute too?

But not the slow and low damage dot build mdk that a single vigor tick or a healing ward can reset the fight?

Seems balance move along...

This isn't a nerf sorc thread... or is it? Lol

I know that Sorcs have it all and a bag of chips, I'm just saying giving Dk a bag of chips scares me lol

Yeah... screw balance amongst classes right? Sorcs get mad when people say "nerf sorcs"- but then they get mad when someone says "buff XXX class"

I'm a magTemp healer or a magNB tank... I'm no friend of the Sorcerer Lobby.

Crusades wrote: »

I think not having an execute keeps our other skills from people crying nerf DK

This.

The passive you are suggesting does seem balanced, with how you explained the double rng, but I can still be scared of Dragonknights lol

Edit: also if the execute was an ability they'd have to use up an ability slot that could be used for a utility skill. Meaning they'd have to make the decision whether to prioritize group utility or dps.

Nemesis7884 · August 2017

i guess you could exchange molton whip into a stam morph..at the same time a stam morph for stone fist and turning green dragon blood into a stam abillity would be nice...and when were at it having volatile armor deal physical or magical dmg - whatever is higher would also be appreciated

ezeepeezee · August 2017

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i guess you could exchange molton whip into a stam morph..at the same time a stam morph for stone fist and turning green dragon blood into a stam abillity would be nice...and when were at it having volatile armor deal physical or magical dmg - whatever is higher would also be appreciated

There don't need to be stam morphs for everything. They need to decouple max stat pools from damage/healing done. Just saying.

wolfxspice · August 2017

they could just add something close to the sorcs implosion passive to the world in ruin passive, just make it work off of poison and fire damage.

Sheezabeast · August 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I want a stamina morph of whip

While you may want that- stamDKs have two executes at their disposal. 2H execute and DW execute. (which is what most stamDK builds use)

I'm trying to offer a solution for mDKs. They have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY in order to get a magicka-based execute. There is no "does XXX damage to enemies below XX health" skill, weapon, or armor set that equals an execute.

Well you've pigeonholed stam DKs to only have weapon only executes, not a class skill. Asking for a Mag execute as a class ability isn't bad, but stam DK deserve some love too. I have both types of DK, lots of experience on both, and stam DK would benefit from a stam whip, hell it doesn't even have to be an execute.

Autumnhart · August 2017

All classes should have an execute.

Ocelot9x · August 2017

Magika dk is strong as it is now. You have your ultimate acting like an execute,it's not so difficult to leap someone at 40% life. Zeni did a good job with mag dk,you can't have the game doing everything for you (like a passive execute lol so skilled ).

Savos_Saren · August 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Magika dk is strong as it is now. You have your ultimate acting like an execute,it's not so difficult to leap someone at 40% life. Zeni did a good job with mag dk,you can't have the game doing everything for you (like a passive execute lol so skilled ).

You mean a passive execute that Sorcs and every single stam DW user have?

CyrusArya · August 2017

The thing is tho, that Magicka DK already has incredible damage as they are the class with the most sources of damage bar none, and also a class that simultaneously gets very high dot damage and direct damage. For others, you have a dot to complement the direct damage (NB, warden), a direct damage skill to complement the dot damage (templar), or nothing but pure direct damage (sorcerer). Mag DK get the best of both worlds in this regard.

Just something to consider.

Apherius · August 2017

jaburns wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No. Just no.

mDK doesn't have to be second templar.

That doesn't really explain much. So- you don't want all classes to work toward the same balance? You don't want mDK damage dealers to be on par with Sorcs?

because you think that DK tank is on par with sorc tank ? Lel no , and don't forgot that the dk is also the better stam dd ( as you can see on the raid leaderboard , 6 DK - 1/2 sorc - 2 templar - 1/2 NB . )

Savos_Saren · August 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

The thing is tho, that Magicka DK already has incredible damage as they are the class with the most sources of damage bar none, and also a class that simultaneously gets very high dot damage and direct damage. For others, you have a dot to complement the direct damage (NB, warden), a direct damage skill to complement the dot damage (templar), or nothing but pure direct damage (sorcerer). Mag DK get the best of both worlds in this regard.

Just something to consider.

The problem with that, though, is that all of the mDKs DoTs are purge-able. Our high damage ability is also limited to 8m. And, not to distract from the subject, but Sorcs do have a DoT as well (liquid lightning). So, every stam/mag class has access to direct damage and DoTs... but only one doesn't have an execute.

Apherius · August 2017

Autumnhart wrote: »

All classes should have an execute.

You don't talk about the " access to executes " so i mean you are talking about " class executes " ?
if this is the case i have this to add " All class should have a spammable " which is not the case of the sorcerer. ( yeah force pulse ... btu we are on the case where you was talking about class skill )

Savos_Saren · August 2017

Apherius wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No. Just no.

mDK doesn't have to be second templar.

That doesn't really explain much. So- you don't want all classes to work toward the same balance? You don't want mDK damage dealers to be on par with Sorcs?

because you think that DK tank is on par with sorc tank ? Lel no , and don't forgot that the dk is also the better stam dd ( as you can see on the raid leaderboard , 6 DK - 1/2 sorc - 2 templar - 1/2 NB . )

Again, I'm not asking for nerfs to any class. I'm asking for an execute for mDKs. If you want to appeal to ZoS about making better skills for sorc tanks- be my guest.

...and of course it's no surprise that you run a mag sorc- shooting down other people's ideas to make classes balanced.

Apherius · August 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

No. Just no.

mDK doesn't have to be second templar.

That doesn't really explain much. So- you don't want all classes to work toward the same balance? You don't want mDK damage dealers to be on par with Sorcs?

because you think that DK tank is on par with sorc tank ? Lel no , and don't forgot that the dk is also the better stam dd ( as you can see on the raid leaderboard , 6 DK - 1/2 sorc - 2 templar - 1/2 NB . )

Again, I'm not asking for nerfs to any class. I'm asking for an execute for mDKs. If you want to appeal to ZoS about making better skills for sorc tanks- be my guest.

...and of course it's no surprise that you run a mag sorc- shooting down other people's ideas to make classes balanced.

I know that create a " Buff sorc tank "thread would be turned into a " nerf sorc " thread .
if I talk about make the second morph or rune prison " useful " they would say me this would make the sorcerer OP cause it's a sorcerer skill ... and that even if i want to make it useful for tank he could be used by mag sorc and become incredebly OP.
if I talk about making the other conjured ward morph scale on health they would say me that this skill is already cheated ... then i will try to explain that we are no talking about the same morph and the same roles ... , nobody will care and the " nerf sorc thread " will begin.
if i talk about make the second morph of crystal frag useful ( maybe a allies shield ) ... they would say me that they should better remove the stun of the other morph and put it on crystal blast ... .

Your main char isn't sorcerer so you can't understand... with all these nerf sorc thread they must plan a sorc nerf for the next major update ... but if they also buff DK ... this would be ... not balanced.

Hum after reflexion it's not a Bad idea, i'm Ok with a big buff of the DK ... if they make the DK OP by making the Mag DK stronger than the Mag sorc dps in PVE ... while the DK stam is also the stronger stam dps ... and the DK tank the stronger Tank ... this could open the eyes of a bunch of sorc hater and make them create " nerf dk " thread instead.

Merkabeh · August 2017

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i guess you could exchange molton whip into a stam morph..at the same time a stam morph for stone fist and turning green dragon blood into a stam abillity would be nice...and when were at it having volatile armor deal physical or magical dmg - whatever is higher would also be appreciated

There don't need to be stam morphs for everything. They need to decouple max stat pools from damage/healing done. Just saying.

Agree so much with this. This is a major cause of balance issues. This is why resource hybrids don't work.

This concept should never have happened. Weapon/Spell Damage and ability rank should effect strength of abilities. Resource pools should effect how frequently you can cast those abilities.

The problem is, without resouces affecting damage, leveling up wouldn't feel like you are making your character stronger through stat allocation; and I'm sure ZOS looked at that and thought people wouldn't like it.

Not that current system is better; leveling up actually makes your character statistically weaker in some ways now, due to the scaling of 1 Tamriel. My mDK I'm leveling has been consistently losing health and stamina as I level (even though I'm keeping same chants and sets, refreshing them every 4 levels), because I'm not allocating for health and stamina. So, my magicka stays level, or slightly rises, (when fresh geared); health and stamina get weaker as I level up (overall, my character gets weaker as I level).

But no, lets keep resources dictating damage/heals, even though the concept of increasing character strength on leveling is already fubar.